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tabitha2

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23 minutes ago, WiseGirl said:

I honestly don't know why Eugenia and Beatrice have Princess titles. 

You can thank Andrew for that. He insisted that his daughters have titles since they were “blood princesses”. 

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1 hour ago, WiseGirl said:

Forbes has a an article on the pruning of monarchies.

Honestly if they are going to keep having monarchies the only children needing to be prince are princesses are the direct in line to the throne's children, imo. Princess Anne of England did it correctly imo. Her kids weren't going to inherit so no royal titles. Edward did sort of the same and I honestly don't know why Eugenia and Beatrice have Princess titles. 

 

Princess Anne’s children were never going to be prince and Princess because those titles are only passed through the male line. George VI had to issue new letters patent to give those titles to Elizabeth’s first two children even though she was the heir apparent. Anne’s first husband was offered an earldom on their marriage in which case the children would be Lord and Lady. Story is they declined it not wanting their children to be titled. But I’m not sure that’s been confirmed.  EugeniE (not A—not sure why that mistake is so common here) and Beatrice were automatically princesses because they are grandchildren of the monarch in the male line. Same reason that the Queen was a Princess at birth even though her father was a second son. The titles were automatic not given. Edward’s children were also automatically Princess and prince. They have those titles. They were automatic. Their parents did not decline anything. They chose to style them as children of an Earl rather than as Princess and prince. Sophie, in an interview last year, confirmed this and said they’ve told the children they can choose to use the higher titles as adults. Louise is now 18 and thus far has chosen not to use it. 
I think the confusion about Andrew and Edward’s children is in part due to Harry’s not being titled prince and Princess at birth. But they were born as great grandchildren of the monarch not grandchildren so a different rule applied. (One made over 100 years ago that has absolutely nothing to do with Meghan). The question now is if they automatically became prince and Princess on their grandfather’s accession or not. That remains unsettled. 

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It is not unsettled. The patent letters were never changed. Archie and Lilibet were automatically prince and princess the moment the queen died and Charles ascended. The debate is whether or not they’re allowed to use the titles; not whether or not they have them. 

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Can someone dig up the lawyer's interpretation of the letters patent?  

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10 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Can someone dig up the lawyer's interpretation of the letters patent?  

There are multiple interpretations floating around the web. One is that it’s automatic. Another is that the designation is not retroactive—if they didn’t receive it at birth they retain the titles due them at birth. It’s not been an issue because there haven’t been great grandchildren in this situation. BP said shortly after the Queen’s death that it would be settled later. Clearly, they’ve not determined it’s automatic as of now as they’ve updated the online line of succession and did not use those titles for the children. 

Edited by louisa05
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Prince Joachim learned a lot about throwing fits and airing dirty laundry in the media from his father, Prince Henrik. Prince Henrik never got over that Queen Margarethe didn’t make him king and let HIM rule because he’s the man. 🙄 Thank goodness she has more sense than that. PH constantly went to the press with his complaints and PJ is following in his footsteps.
 

With a Crown Prince who has four children and a second son with four children, that really is a lot of princes and princesses. The two adult children of the second son are professional models who use their princely title as part of their modeling name. QM made the decision after QEII’s death, so I can’t help but think QM didn’t want to leave all the decisions to clean up the monarchy to her son. 

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I can see a similar set up as with their HRH. They still have it but have agreed (were forced) not to use it. Having to take titles back is messy- that whole business in Denmark is rather confusing on so many levels. And, as I don’t read danish and our tabloids cover them but not to the same extent as the BRF so I have no real opinion on who is right or what is going on really. You can read some on forums but it’s very polarising and without sources hard to decipher (and some Forums regarding Mary make many Meghan hate threads like a walk in the park. I am shocked at the vitriol).
So Joachim is either an embarrassing drunk, entitled, loves his titles, completely useless but still gets jobs created or him
 and is allowed to play working royal from time to time OR a hard working, well educated, great parent, always helping out in the family business and still they treat him like Cinderella, while the heir is a useless party boy. There are rumours of his father cutting him out of his will (but he suffered from dementia so who knows if true and if what it actually means), the Counts of Mon….. something title that was basically a made up French title for his father and having it bestowed instead of a real one is a snub…. Is France actually an Exile or a job to save face? All I know is third hand so all I can say is that it seems there was some confusion around the timing of the statement. And while you can argue it was planned for them to loose the title at 25 initially- and it seems as if J,M&A hoped to veto it?? If that’s the case it doesn’t matter if they loose earlier. And I don’t really get the identity confusion (though I get that the discussion that you will loose the royal standing thanks to granny must hurt and feel like favouritism)- their parents had 5 days (+the topic was on since May, so enough time to prepare them for a change down the line) to break the news, and they still share a family name- counts of thingy bob monte…. No one would have thought it a degradation if they hadn’t publicly made it one after the examples of Sweden. All those bitter arguments could have been held privately because there’s no gain. It’s not as if the wider public is highly sympathetic about the loss of titles (but probably about the harsh timeline of the announcement) and it’s not as if this helps to sway the facts. If they wanted to make a point in a dignified way, that could have welcomed the change (even if that’s a lie) and refused to fill in at royal functions in the future or rather “sadly” dropping out due to health reasons (corona, flu, his stroke might give enough excuses). No happy smily faces on the Christmas picture or the next jubilee. You know, becoming unavailable but avoiding the confrontation.

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QMII Statement per Google translate:

 

In recent days, there have been strong reactions to my decision on the future use of titles for Prince Joachim's four children. It obviously affects me.

My decision has been a long time coming. With my 50 years on the throne, it is natural both to look back and to look forward. It is my duty and my wish as Queen to ensure that the monarchy continues to shape itself in keeping with the times. It sometimes requires difficult decisions to be made, and it will always be difficult to find the right moment.

Carrying a royal title entails a number of obligations and duties, which will in future be the responsibility of fewer members of the royal family. This adaptation, which I see as a necessary safeguard for the future of the monarchy, I want to make in my time. 

I have made my decision as Queen, mother and grandmother, but as a mother and grandmother I have underestimated how much my youngest son and his family feel affected. It makes a big impression, and I'm sorry for that.

No one should be in doubt that my children, children-in-law and grandchildren are my great joy and pride. I now hope that we as a family can find the peace to find our way through this situation ourselves.


Margaret R

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I mean, it's a good statement, but what did she expect? Unless perhaps she DID tell Joachim and he just stubbornly refused to believe that it would come to be? Either way - what a mess in Denmark. Harry and Meghan must feel relieved that for once it's not them causing headlines. 

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I don’t get the fit Joachim and his family threw. The writing was on the wall for some time. They are still so privileged and yet they think they are victims. To me this reads tone deaf and reminds me of Meghan and Harry.

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We want all the privileges and none of the duties or only the ones we pick?

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Maybe she should take away their money & properties -- that might given them some needed perspective.

Itʻs clear that these individuals were never going to be an integral part of the DRF, much less actively working royals. 

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What makes those „spare“ positions extra complicated is the fact that they loose the position but not really in the beginning. Joachim hasn’t been the spare since Christians birth. And he already has a spare in his sister. But as they are both children he fills the role on a factual level as he fills in as regent or did lots of royal work. It was still him after the crown couple. Same for H&M. Harry’s job was basically made redundant with George. But they would have gone on for almost two decades as if nothing has changed. 
What makes it extra delicate is that Joachim, Alexandra and the boys basically looked like the crown family while Frederick was still unmarried and allegedly lazy and more interested in sailing and partying.

As I said, I get the pain and anger. But sometimes keeping up appearances is more beneficial to you. I doubt Athena would get many snide remarks if her parents would have made a statement being welcoming of those changes and acted as if this is positive. At least it might have helped her not to take those jabs to heart? Ahhh well probably not. Children are very cruel and highly sensitive. But still, they could have used the change to their advantage 

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3 hours ago, viii said:

I mean, it's a good statement, but what did she expect? Unless perhaps she DID tell Joachim and he just stubbornly refused to believe that it would come to be? Either way - what a mess in Denmark. Harry and Meghan must feel relieved that for once it's not them causing headlines. 

From what the palace is saying (and even Joachim admits), she had talks with him starting in May, but Joachim didn’t like it and didn’t want to accept that the titles were going to be taken away. It sounds like he did nothing to prepare his children for this happening, so the palace just went ahead with it anyway because Joachim wouldn’t work with them. At least that’s my reading between the lines of the situation. 

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  • When I first encountered the Danish Royals, Marie was pregnant with Athena, so I never knew of Frederick being lazy and sailing.  I need to go read some history somewhere.  How did Joachim fill in with royal duties if he drank so much?
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3 hours ago, SoSoNosy said:
  • When I first encountered the Danish Royals, Marie was pregnant with Athena, so I never knew of Frederick being lazy and sailing.  I need to go read some history somewhere.  How did Joachim fill in with royal duties if he drank so much?
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I have been reading about royal families for a very long time and while I was aware about the criticism, I always thought it was more of the typical bashing they all get. I write allegedly because it’s something I read on forums and blogs but it’s harder to make up your own mind when you can’t follow the actual reporting. 

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Not to derail  to much If you enjoy that every Christmas the Much talked about Queen Margarethe puts out the Palace Nisse AKA Danish house elf family  she crafted and every day in December a post is made about their adventures in rooms and Attics of the Palace complex talking about the history they find there. It’s so very cute and fascinating to follow.
 

 

53F16305-6571-4B88-B409-9963F4638ABB.webp

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9 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Not to derail  to much If you enjoy that every Christmas the Much talked about Queen Margarethe puts out the Palace Nisse AKA Danish house elf family  she crafted and every day in December a post is made about their adventures in rooms and Attics of the Palace complex talking about the history they find there. It’s so very cute and fascinating to follow.
 

 

53F16305-6571-4B88-B409-9963F4638ABB.webp

Ooh, thank you, that sounds adorable, I'll look out for it this Christmas season! I was just on YouTube and did a search for Queen Margarethe on a whim, and found a  video of her doing a guided tour of Amalienborg Palace. That's my YT viewing sorted for tonight! :D 

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It’s posted on the Danish Royal Instagram with the description in Danish of course of where the Nisse are and the history of a particular room or object. Translations are easy to find though. 

Yup, I have seen that documentary. She really loves history and it shows:)

 

Edited by tabitha2
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I will remember for both of us:) I follow it every year. It’s extra interesting because apparently the RF are pack rats… the Queens school books  to ancient banquet chairs to old canes are stored away carefully. 

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 Being both an accomplished artist and highly educated with studies at Cambridge, the Sorbonne and the London School of Economics  she  Most likely would have done great good in the world if she had not been destined to be a  figurehead.

Edited by tabitha2
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1 hour ago, Teckelvik said:

Weird trivia, Queen Margrethe is a huge Tolkien fan.  She corresponded with him and made illustrations for the books. This link has some, with information.

 

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/denmark/articles/denmarks-queen-margrethe-illustrated-the-lord-of-the-rings/?amp=1

That is so cool!! I did not know that about her! Now I want to find her illustrations. 

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I'm a mere mortal with no title and the whole bussiness about title for decentends of monarchs is in my opinion silly. But what do they think they will gain by running to the press and whine about getting their titles taken? Airing out your dirty laundry for the whole world to see is never benefitial. It may be entertaining for us, but for them? These are adults who thanks to who they where born had and have opportunities I can't even imagine and will never knew a lot of the problems we have to face everyday. But instead of being happy that live dealt them that fabulous card, they whine to the press.

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