Denmark

[tabitha2]

Seems to me it’s not knowing who grandma is and who dad is and who you will be someday that’s the the problem. It’s the giving yourself airs and wanting/expecting  perks or deference you have not earned because of who they are that gets spare Princes like Harry and Prince Joachim in Denmark butt hurt and shocked when they get told they aren’t in fact the hot shit they think they are. Hopefully George was was corrected when/if he Said what he said to the school mate.

Edited October 1, 2022 by tabitha2

[Loveday]

4 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Seems to me it’s not knowing who grandma is and who dad is and who you will be someday that’s the the problem. It’s the giving yourself airs and wanting/expecting  perks or deference you have not earned because of who they are that gets spare Princes like Harry and Prince Joachim in Denmark butt hurt and shocked when they get told they aren’t in fact the hot shit they think they are. Hopefully George was was corrected when/if he Said what he said to the school mate.

Exactly. It's one thing to say things like that when you're little, and then get corrected for it (hopefully!). It's another thing altogether to pull that crap when you're an adult, no matter how high up the chain you are, get told off, and then write a book all about poor you. 

[viii]

The Denmark mess is so good it almost deserves its own thread. 

[Mama Mia]

8 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I do think the world has changed a lot in the last 50 years or so. People are less willing to accept the idea that a group of people are entitled to privileges and money, simply because of their birth. 

I also think there will be further scandals. Young royals -- at least in England-- are raised in a way that practically guarantees poor character. Look at Charles or Andrew. From birth, they have seen the adults around them bowing and scraping to their parents. As they entered the world, they received special privileges they did not earn or deserve.

Anne was the only girl at Benenden to get a room with an ensuite. Why? Because of who she was. Charles and Edward were both Head Boy at Gordonstoun? Why? Because of their birth, most likely. Edward's A-levels were horrible (1 C- and two Ds) but he still got into Cambridge. In young adulthood, with fewer adults controlling them, the royals are able to gratify all their wishes with very little effort.

All of this creates a terrible sense of entitlement, which naturally leads to things like adultery, mediocrity and in some cases, criminal behavior.

People may have tolerated this in the past, but it seems the. mood has changed. I'd be surprised if there's a monarchy at all in 20-30 years, cute kids or not.

 

I'll bet both Harry and William used Granny Bucks in unsavory ways when they were young. 

Or their staff did, on their behalf, since I thought royals don't carry money.

Individual personalities aside, I think it will be interesting to see shifts in attitude towards Royals based on a few  pervasive  factors

— 1. Ubiquitous coverage of everything anyone does ever. Everyone now has the ability to post photos / videos of every child/teen/young adult misstep. Every awkward unflattering photo, every school tiff, every tantrum or drunken night out, or morning after slink home. Every fight with the parents. Every fight between siblings.  As adults every slight quarrel or major blow-up. Everything. I don’t think that works well for regular people - and these are regular people who are supposed to look and act nicely all the time.  Obviously these people are also insanely rich and entitled, so have help in looking good, covering up missteps — but that can only go so far. 
 

2- Yes, lots of us hate the entitlement, and kind of the utter ridiculousness of all of it. The blatant sexism ( despite the most stable being Queens), the weird rituals. The colonial / imperialism. The racism. The money! Soooo much money! The super intricate rituals. But will people actually get rid of it- particularly the British Royals? I don’t think so. Because despite protests on various real, vital, issues, — things always seem to stay roughly the same. And turning over a monarchy that isn’t actively cutting off heads or making laws isn’t going to spark the kind of movement that makes change. 
 

3. — We also like to watch rich celebrities do rich people things in fancy clothes with perfect make-up. Even ( maybe especially) when those things include not just cute kids and receptions and fund raising - but also drama! And fights!  And break-ups. And literal palace intrigue.   So I’m interested in how those all intersect. 

[just_ordinary]

I wonder if H&M as well as Buckingham Palace have a close look at Denmark this week. How to slim down the messy way. I am utmost intrigued of this was a complete communication failure or if Joachim and family thought they had a right to veto or if it’s really about the titles? I wouldn’t be surprised the fact his son did an ad very obviously playing on his royal status didn’t help. 
Not to derail the thread, but if I were H&M I would give up everything that could be stripped. Pro-actively giving up the P/P and HRH for good (the Dukedom is another matter). In the end cutting them off IS the future. Just like in all the other royal households. More will follow if they haven’t made this cut yet. But it looks different everywhere because the laws, rules and customs are different so you can’t exactly copy another example.

[louisa05]

1 minute ago, just_ordinary said:

I wonder if H&M as well as Buckingham Palace have a close look at Denmark this week. How to slim down the messy way. I am utmost intrigued of this was a complete communication failure or if Joachim and family thought they had a right to veto or if it’s really about the titles? I wouldn’t be surprised the fact his son did an ad very obviously playing on his royal status didn’t help. 
Not to derail the thread, but if I were H&M I would give up everything that could be stripped. Pro-actively giving up the P/P and HRH for good (the Dukedom is another matter). In the end cutting them off IS the future. Just like in all the other royal households. More will follow if they haven’t made this cut yet. But it looks different everywhere because the laws, rules and customs are different so you can’t exactly copy another example.

Joachim appeared in a marketing campaign for a resort last November and was paid to be on a magazine cover early this year. It appears this is about him monetizing his title rather than slimming down the monarchy. 

[Mama Mia]

I find it baffling that none of them are supposed to “ monetize” their title, when the only reason their whole entire family HAS money is because of the titles and inherited moneys/lands/investments/jewels associated with it. Is a magazine ad too vulgar? Are we supposed to pretend $$ doesn’t exist? I really don’t understand this part. And if they can give and take away titles based on work - how are ANY of them ensured a lifetime job based on who they were born too? 

[Destiny]

1 hour ago, viii said:

The Denmark mess is so good it almost deserves its own thread. 

Make one. I’m kind of curious about the whole mess and would love to hear FJ’s thoughts!

[tabitha2]

Please. I feel Queen Margrethe should have just let The rest of her grand children( two of whom are adults)keep what they have grown up with and make the decree for the next generation.She created family problems and tensions for no good reason.

Edited October 1, 2022 by tabitha2

[just_ordinary]

49 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Please. I feel Queen Margrethe should have just let The rest of her grand children( two of whom are adults)keep what they have grown up with and make the decree for the next generation.She created family problems and tensions for no good reason.

I wouldn’t be surprised the ad for the hotel one of her grandsons did played a big part. It’s heavily based on his Prince title. It’s on Twitter I think, if I find the link I post it. Those boys already sell out their status as royals or need it to get those model gigs. A bit like Peter Philips and the milk commercial but with a real title in the name. You would think that loosing the title earlier than later is better. But it obviously gives them less time to trade on it. I get being hurt of the decision came out of the blue. But it seems talks have been going on for a while. I don’t know why J,M and A thought they had a veto option? But it seems they all felt blindsided so that’s definitely a messy situation that could have been handled better. And I think the relationship between QMII and J is complicated as well (and his late father. They don’t need to back down to the BRF in terms of family drama). In the end- downsizing on titles IS the future. But if you do it, make sure everyone in informed and toes the line. 
I think J,M&A made a mistake in the phrasing of their statements. If they had really wanted to make their unhappiness known in a dignified way they wouldn’t have put so much emphasis on how their poor hyper privileged children have a identity crisis being downgraded from Princes to mere Counts (even though I appreciate the complex situation with that Count Title). You can make your point very clear all while saying all the right things. Just saying. 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Joachim appeared in a marketing campaign for a resort last November and was paid to be on a magazine cover early this year. It appears this is about him monetizing his title rather than slimming down the monarchy. 

Joachim sounds like heʻs on the Prince Andrew financial plan, using his position to rake in even more money from endorsements, kickbacks, and various schemes.

Another cautionary tale would be that of the Spanish royal family. The former king is living in exile in UAE after tax fraud and before that his daughter was embroiled in fraud schemes. 

 

 

 

[just_ordinary]

I don’t think it was about Joachim but his oldest son. Or maybe both. Or maybe not personal at all. There is a clear demand for slimmed royal families- including the titles. Modern spares are also a bit of a problematic situation often enough. I don’t think Joachim is in any way similar to PA or even PH (no whining before. He was doing a bad, ok or stellar job in regards who you listen to). Maybe QMII decided to solve this asap because she realised her time is limited as well and didn’t want her son to do it to his brother? Or something else accelerated and finalised those plans that have been in discussions at least since May. Maybe Joachim is the door mat in a shitty family. Who knows. 

[Emkay]

38 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I don’t think it was about Joachim but his oldest son. Or maybe both. Or maybe not personal at all. There is a clear demand for slimmed royal families- including the titles. Modern spares are also a bit of a problematic situation often enough. I don’t think Joachim is in any way similar to PA or even PH (no whining before. He was doing a bad, ok or stellar job in regards who you listen to). Maybe QMII decided to solve this asap because she realised her time is limited as well and didn’t want her son to do it to his brother? Or something else accelerated and finalised those plans that have been in discussions at least since May. Maybe Joachim is the door mat in a shitty family. Who knows. 

This is why QEII said no to the half-in, half-out plan that Harry and Meghan wanted. Even while not ‘working’ as royals, anything they do will be associated with the RF. And in an institution like the BRF, where they are ‘supposed to’ remain neutral, that’s a minefield. 

[viii]

7 hours ago, Destiny said:

Make one. I’m kind of curious about the whole mess and would love to hear FJ’s thoughts!

There’s been discussion in two separate posts. If I create one can we merge those posts into the Denmark post?

[Destiny]

10 minutes ago, viii said:

There’s been discussion in two separate posts. If I create one can we merge those posts into the Denmark post?

Sure. 

[viii]

So the latest drama to come out of Denmark is that Queen Margarethe (the only reigning queen left in the world) stripped her second son’s children of their prince and princess title. Joachim has four children - two boys with his first wife and a son and daughter with his second and current wife. 

Joachim and family are pissed, with everyone releasing statements left and right about how hurt they are and how their identities are now gone. 

Queen Margarethe released a statement that basically said IDGAF. 

No current statement (yet) from Joachim’s older brother, the lazy heir Fred. 

Discuss!

[tabitha2]

She also put Frederick and Mary in a tight spot because now they have to deal with the press questions. QM stays in the palace mostly now because of her health so they get the heat. 
 

Also. I remember an interview years ago with her saying basically she is not best grandmother or the most patient with them so  there is that. 

[Smash!]

Can someone explain to me why they feel they lost their identity? They still have titles (although not prince/princess) and keep their place in the succession. Joachim and his wife are/were working royals so I kind of get it but Joachim’s children aren’t.

By contrast the Swedish Royals did the same and the statements of Madeleine, Philip and their spouses read very differently.

[SoSoNosy]

Oh, how I MISS Sartorial Splendor!!! She had definite options on Joachim and his family.  His first wife left him because he was a perpetual drunk, and remarried but stayed in favor with the Queen.  Marg's husband kept demanding to be named King, threw some kind of huge fit and told the world that he would NOT be buried with her.  According to gossip, Joachim was actually in love with Crown Princess Mary, so he went and found a young woman who was as close to her as he could get.  Name, Marie, looked a lot like Mary at the time but I have lost track of that family since Sartorial went down.  There was a ton of talk there about the Danish royal family.  

Where could I find these ads or whatever they are?

 

Edit:  I found a huge thread at The Royal Forums but it's going to take too long to read the whole thing tonight.  

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by SoSoNosy

[viii]

Marie is the spitting image of Mary. I never heard the rumours that Joachim was in love with Mary but makes sense. 

[prayawaythefundie]

Wow, I didn‘t know what I was missing by not following the Danish royals! Sounds like one great rabbit whole. Will try to get into it when baby has a good day with long naps. 

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, SoSoNosy said:

Oh, how I MISS Sartorial Splendor!!!  She had definite options on Joachim and his family. 

Me too! There was no one better at doing analyses of royal fashions and jewels with heaping scoops of snark.

Re: Joachim & family. Apparently, Joachim, Marie, and the two younger kids live in France anyway so WTF do they have to complain about? 

Royal Dish also has an active Danish Royals forum and they generally hate them all. 

 

[louisa05]

22 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

I find it baffling that none of them are supposed to “ monetize” their title, when the only reason their whole entire family HAS money is because of the titles and inherited moneys/lands/investments/jewels associated with it. Is a magazine ad too vulgar? Are we supposed to pretend $$ doesn’t exist? I really don’t understand this part. And if they can give and take away titles based on work - how are ANY of them ensured a lifetime job based on who they were born too? 

I think the problem is that the monarchies are usually financially supported at least in part  by the government and often by property that is at least perceived by the public as public profit (were it not held by royals). So it’s as if a sitting president or prime minister were doing ad campaigns for income on the side. And these people have no claim to fame other than titles. If Harry were just a random rich person’s never do well son, Netflix, Spotify and Random House wouldn’t give him the time of day.  

[WiseGirl]

Forbes has a an article on the pruning of monarchies.

Honestly if they are going to keep having monarchies the only children needing to be prince are princesses are the direct in line to the throne's children, imo. Princess Anne of England did it correctly imo. Her kids weren't going to inherit so no royal titles. Edward did sort of the same and I honestly don't know why Eugenia and Beatrice have Princess titles. 

 

[just_ordinary]

Sartorial Splendor is indeed missed. I always hope she might come back but it seems she shut it down for good. For a time she was covering HMTQ jewels but has stopped before the jubilee I think.