Seriously Steve 4: Judging and Hating

[Ozlsn]

All of our schools from elementary through high school start from 8.30 to 9am and finish from 3 to 4pm. (Primary schools usually finish earlier, but not by much). Before/after school care is offered in most primary schools, you pay for it. It's not offered at secondary level (although I think there are some kids who would definitely benefit if it was - I used to train at a gym located in a high school that was open before/after school hours, and kids were being dropped off at 5.30am at the Burger King across the road by their parents to wait for the start of the school day.) Sports is usually Saturdays, although training is weekdays after school. Sports here are also usually organised through community clubs rather than schools, the exception being private schools which usually have mandatory Saturday sports participation until the last couple of years. The rural area I grew up in it would be impossible to run after school sports because so many kids had to catch the bus back out to the farm - otherwise their parents had to pick them up, and God help them if that disrupted the milking times!

[Bluebirdbluebell]

This week's Seriously, Dad is called "Playing with Fire" and it's from September 28, 2022. 

First Paragraph:

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I remember in my teenage years I referred to my smoking habit by saying, “I can quit anytime.” We often have inflated confidence that we can stop an addicting habit. Somehow it doesn’t seem so bad if an addiction is merely “a choice,” and we think we are in control. I’m guessing quite of few of you can relate because you were once a slave to smoking. 

Holy Smokes!!! Pun Intended  Seriously, he does read here. People were just talking about smoking in the other thread. Hi, Steve! 👋

Next Paragraph:

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Smoking is one thing, but drinking alcohol is in a whole different solar system. Smoking is now less socially acceptable, while drinking is widely accepted as long as it isn’t “excessive.” Even in many Christian circles, drinking in moderation is “fine.” But I challenge you to consider: Is it wise?

Not really, but it's fun. Also people are more conscience about drinking responsibly and not driving which is good.

Next Paragraph:

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Seriously, have you ever heard of a husband abusing his wife or threatening to kill her while under the influence of tobacco? 

 No, but not everyone who drinks does this. That being said if you have anger problem while sober, it might be best to stay sober. 

Quote

Alcohol undermines what self-control and inhibitions a person has.

Yes, this is why you don't drink and drive. 

Quote

It clouds judgement and destroys relationships. It feels good and cries “give me more.” Alcohol destroys lives. Might it be similar to the fool who justifies drug use by saying, “Sure it can be addictive, but I only use it in moderation.” 

All addiction does this, and yes it can be devastating. I've known people with addiction to drugs and alcohol, both in my inner circle and more casually. It's hard.

Next paragraph:

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“Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise” (Proverbs 20:1).

Next Paragraph:

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“Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder” (Proverbs 23:31-32).

Ever hear of the wedding of Cana where Jesus turned water into wine? And no, it was not grape juice. It was vintage good-quality WINE.

Next Paragraph:

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If you are still not convinced, next week I will share why I decided to never drink alcohol even in moderation. 

You never drink, because you're a mean old grouch when sober and because it will open the emotional floodgates. I picture Steve as a weepy drunk. 

I think someone in Steve's inner circle is starting to try drinking. I doubt it's Sarah since I think she might be hoping to be pregnant. Maybe Nathan and Melanie are trying alcohol or Jesse and Anna III, etc.  Steve is not happy.

I don't agree with Steve that alcohol always turns people into addicts. It is good to be careful especially if there's a history of addiction in the family. 

[DJ1234]

"It clouds judgement and destroys relationships. It feels good and cries “give me more.” 

The Bible in the hands of self-centred, egotistical, domineering male can accomplish the same thing.

[Bastet]

  Steve can certainly claim that drinking is a bad idea, that overall it causes more suffering than pleasure for humanity. It’s a defensible position. 

  What he can’t say is that it is roundly condemned in the Bible. Jesus himself invited the apostles to drink wine which he said is also his blood. Seems like a clincher to me. And the claim that it was really grape juice is just plain dishonest. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Bastet

[anjulibai]

Lots of people are abusive without alcohol, Steve.

Likewise, many alcoholics are never abusive. 

[Alisamer]

On 9/25/2022 at 9:13 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Elementary school starts earliest in our district. The middle school starts next. And the high school starts last. I think the high school doesn’t start until like 8:45am.  Of course they get out latest too. Maybe around 3:40 I think.

I just saw someone local to me complaining that their kindergartner's class didn't start until 9:15! They really should be arraging things so the high schoolers start last, IMO, that fits the way their brains work best. Around here it's all about a lack of bus drivers, though, schools have to be staggered so the buses can run to multiple schools, and apparently times are chosen by area, not by age.

When I was in school elementary started first, followed by middle school. We used the same buses for both as the schools were across the street from each other. That had originally been the whole school, K-12, for the town. But later the high school moved several miles away. 

On 9/27/2022 at 7:41 AM, Ozlsn said:

The rural area I grew up in it would be impossible to run after school sports because so many kids had to catch the bus back out to the farm - otherwise their parents had to pick them up, and God help them if that disrupted the milking times!

Cows don't wait!

Well, they WILL. But it's not good for them, and they aren't happy about it. Most milk cows tend to congregate near the milking parlor before milking time, there are usually only a few stubborn stragglers who have to be rounded up. And run a little bit late and the cows start yelling about it. 

[hoipolloi]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

Jesus himself invited the apostles to drink wine which he said is also his blood.

Seem to remember that Jesus also turned water into wine -- NOT wine into water!

[anniebgood]

Oh Stevie, you wouldn't like our Lutheran Church. We have actual RED wine at communion....now if they could do something about those tasteless wafers.

[quiversR4hunting]

17 hours ago, anniebgood said:

Oh Stevie, you wouldn't like our Lutheran Church. We have actual RED wine at communion....now if they could do something about those tasteless wafers.

My Catholic Church also has real red wine too. And it is yummy unlike some other catholic churches who have bitter real wine

[smittykins]

Episcopal Church, red wine(which apparently was supplied by a parishioner’s vineyard at one point, although I’m not sure if that’s still the case), and tasteless wafers, the only difference being that they sometimes seem “chewier” than others.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

This week's Seriously, Dad? is called "No Sacrifice But Blessing", and it's part two of why Steve doesn't drink. I already stipulated it's because he's miserable enough sober. It's from October 5, 2022. 

First paragraph:

Quote

This week continues on the subject of a believer using alcohol. Here is what brought me to a no alcohol decision. The Old Testament priests were not to have any strong drink or wine before entering the tabernacle. 

So Steve made this decision himself based on the Old Testament. Steve, Jesus and Paul made decisions that Christians shouldn't have to abide by Old Testaments rules. Also Steve, you're not a minister, priest, bishop, pastor, etc. Pretty sure the "Old Testament priests" were rabbis and you're not a rabbi either.

Quote

“And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying, Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean” (Lev 10:8-11). 

Don't show up to a religious service drunk or buzzed seems like an understandable, but doesn't mean you should never drink.

Second Paragraph begins:

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What a beautiful picture this gives us that God’s servants were not to partake when coming into His presence and that not having alcohol was important in good judgement. 

Again this is the Old Testament. The miracle at Cana makes it clear that is sometimes to drink wine.

Also almost everyone agrees that alcohol affects judgement. That's why people avoid drunk driving and the commercials for alcohol say "please drink responsibly."

Quote

 Likely, there could be more that isn’t overtly clear from the passage. 

I thought you're whole shtick was that everything has to be said overtly said in the text. Isn't that your problem with other denominations? If someone you disagreed with said that, you would accuse them of twisting scripture.

Quote

If the Lord said it wasn’t for His priests, I wanted to learn from that admonition, since we, as believers, are a holy priesthood. 

You're not a priest or pastor or minister, Steve. Maybe you should have gone to back to school and attended a seminary of some kind? 

Quote

“Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 2:5). 

On the other hand, the quote is about how your body is a temple. It doesn't really fit with the earlier point Steve was trying to make.

Third Paragraph:

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My Lord gave His life on the cross to purchase me.

No, He died to forgive your sins and for the salvation of others. He didn't buy you.  

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It is no sacrifice to give up alcohol and follow Him. 

"But I heard Jesus, He drank wine..." 

I can't fault someone for not drinking. Choosing to drink should be a choice and should be up to the individual. There are compelling reasons not to drink. That being said Steve doesn't make a clear argument and I doubt anyone will find this compelling not to drink. 

[Howl]

On 9/28/2022 at 11:56 AM, Alisamer said:

I just saw someone local to me complaining that their kindergartner's class didn't start until 9:15! They really should be arraging things so the high schoolers start last, IMO, that fits the way their brains work best.

Yes, that's the schedule in Austin, TX schools and also where we're living right now -- high schoolers start school last, around 9 am or a little later. 

Also where we're living now in  SW Colorado, it's a four-day school week. No in-person school on Friday for any age group. 

[Giraffe]

Glad to know some of his children now drink alcohol. He’s really taking his curmudgeon old man life to the next level, isn’t he?  What a waste of life. 

[Howl]

Is Steve's rigid approach to belief just a fig leaf to cover a desperate fear of losing control?  Was there an incident in the distant past when a very young Steve got very drunk?

This is a guy who is still obsessing over having inadvertently glimpsed a woman's décolleté...once...a long time ago.  This is a guy who adopted patriarchy, home churched and kept his daughters in domestic bondage for decades.  Who controlled access to animal crackers and Pepsi. 

His control mechanisms are failing have failed, and he's getting grumpier.  All the women in the family are so much happier -- there's actual joy. 

[kpmom]

Do you suppose Steve was this “all or nothing” kind of person before he got religion?

I mean, there just doesn’t seem to be any grey areas in his thinking at all. The Bible says priests shouldn’t come into the temple after drinking, so in Steve’s mind that means no alcohol ever, ever, EVER!

Steve worries that other adults will have influence over his kids, so they don’t play sports, go to school or church, and don’t hang out with kids outside the family.

He decides hobbies are a waste of time, so no one in the family can have any kind of hobby AT ALL!  Even reading for pleasure is forbidden.  
 

I imagine this was his personality before religion, but I wonder how it manifested itself in his pre-fundie life?

 

 

[Cults-r-us]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

Is Steve's rigid approach to belief just a fig leaf to cover a desperate fear of losing control?  Was there an incident in the distant past when a very young Steve got very drunk?

Maybe the last time Steve got good and over-served, he went and got his vasectomy reversed!

 

[DonutWench]

On 9/28/2022 at 7:56 PM, anniebgood said:

Oh Stevie, you wouldn't like our Lutheran Church. We have actual RED wine at communion....now if they could do something about those tasteless wafers.

I haven’t been to a religious service in a long time, and I know there are a variety of different types of Lutheran churches, but I went to one a few times when I was younger, and having been raised Catholic, I was very impressed with the communion options! They had one line for wine and one for grape juice (I declined both because I just can’t with the communal cup) and one line for regular bread and another for gluten free (no wafers!) I was truly impressed! (The services I went to were literally identical to Catholic Mass aside from the posh communion 😂)

 

 

 

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, kpmom said:

Do you suppose Steve was this “all or nothing” kind of person before he got religion?

I mean, there just doesn’t seem to be any grey areas in his thinking at all. The Bible says priests shouldn’t come into the temple after drinking, so in Steve’s mind that means no alcohol ever, ever, EVER!

Steve worries that other adults will have influence over his kids, so they don’t play sports, go to school or church, and don’t hang out with kids outside the family.

He decides hobbies are a waste of time, so no one in the family can have any kind of hobby AT ALL!  Even reading for pleasure is forbidden.  

I imagine this was his personality before religion, but I wonder how it manifested itself in his pre-fundie life?

I agree and it probably makes it just as well that he doesn't drink. He might have a personality more conducive to addiction.

[louannems]

“Don’t show up to a church service drunk or buzzed”…

You just made me remember something from the 1970’s when I was a teenager.

Our family was at Christmas Midnight Mass; the church was packed, and many people did come drunk or buzzed.

We watched is comic disbelief as some people were actually changing places by jumping over pews!  It was wild.

[marmalade]

11 hours ago, louannems said:

“Don’t show up to a church service drunk or buzzed”…

You just made me remember something from the 1970’s when I was a teenager.

Our family was at Christmas Midnight Mass; the church was packed, and many people did come drunk or buzzed.

We watched is comic disbelief as some people were actually changing places by jumping over pews!  It was wild.

That reminds me of the Trailer Park Boys Christmas special. When asking the congregation who was drunk or high, just about everyone raised their hands. 😂

[Bethy]

On 10/5/2022 at 10:08 PM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I agree and it probably makes it just as well that he doesn't drink. He might have a personality more conducive to addiction.

I knew someone who had a relative who was an alcoholic. After said relative got sober, he took those addictive tendencies and became the most Baptist Baptist you ever met. This could explain a lot about Steve.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

 

This week's Seriously, Dad? is called "Not Motivated?" and it's from October 19, 2022. First paragraph:

Quote

For followers of Jesus, the question is: Who will we obey—self or the Lord?

I'm glad he's only addressing followers of Jesus. Everyone else is free to obey who they want. 

Quote

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” (Romans 6:12-14).

Second Paragraph:

Quote

Do we always feel like obeying the Lord? If we don’t feel like it, does that mean we shouldn’t obey? Consider this. What if your child doesn’t want to obey you? You would love for him to have a cheerful desire to obey, but wouldn’t you still want him to obey even if his heart isn’t in it? Scripture shows us the Lord requires obedience regardless of how a person feels about it. The command is to obey. Interesting how when we obey, over time, the will follows. 

In previous columns, Steve has said that you should force yourself to love God and then do things for the love of God. Now's he admitting that sometimes the spirit isn't it. 

I've also said before, but I have trouble telling what "God wants" versus what a church, denomination, pastor, etc. wants.

Third Paragraph:

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Isn’t it hypocritical to do something that we don’t agree with (John 12:43)? If we do something because God’s Word says to do it, we can never go wrong if we are seeking to please God. 

1. If it goes against a personal moral code, then we can do wrong.  
2.  Who gets to decide what pleases God? Even the bible can have different interpretations and be manipulated by people with bad intentions. The bible can be said to self-contradictory in places.

Fourth paragraph:

Quote

Whatever it is, obey the Spirit: 
– Read your Bible and pray when you first get up every day (1 Peter 2:2, Psalm 5:3)
– Have family Bible time each day (Deuteronomy 6:6-7)
– Be kind and loving (Ephesians 4:32, 5:25)
– Attend and be involved with your church (Heb. 10:25)

 I once heard a story about a guy whose grandfather had him read the entire bible and it made the grandson an atheist. The grandfather was an atheist himself who taught his grandson to critically think. 

These aren't terrible suggestions, but I would expect most of the people who read his column do most of these things. Not everyone has time to read the bible first thing in the morning. 

Once again we have a column with almost no new information and barely mentions fatherhood (brief mention for family bible time). It's not the worst column, but it's nothing new.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

6 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

What if your child doesn’t want to obey you? You would love for him to have a cheerful desire to obey, but wouldn’t you still want him to obey even if his heart isn’t in it?

I find this paragraph very telling. Which daughter are you referring to Stevehovah?  Or all 3?

Note he says "obey you", not "obey God." Here he's advocating blind unquestioning obedience -- like he wanted from all his children:  "... wouldn’t you still want him to obey even if his heart isn’t in it?"

Stevehovah is certainly adept at telling us who he is without telling us who he is.  

[Pammy]

6 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Whatever it is, obey the Spirit: 
– Read your Bible and pray when you first get up every day (1 Peter 2:2, Psalm 5:3)
– Have family Bible time each day (Deuteronomy 6:6-7)
– Be kind and loving (Ephesians 4:32, 5:25)
– Attend and be involved with your church (Heb. 10:25)

I (sarcastically) love that he builds up all this 'obedience is critical' momentum -- then runs crashing into a wall of 'but the Bible doesn't actually command those things'.

I mean, one-out-of-four is a pretty bad rate of success for man-made practices that Steve really wishes there were good prooftexts for! (Yes: Be kind and loving! Everything else is a choice of spiritual practice, not a command of God or the Bible.)

[feministxtian]

7 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

In previous columns, Steve has said that you should force yourself to love God and then do things for the love of God. Now's he admitting that sometimes the spirit isn't it. 

If you have to force yourself to love anyone, that ain't love. If I remember right, somewhere in the NT there's something about coming to God freely, wholeheartedly and WITHOUT COERSION. Stevie boy is full of shit and uses the whole God thing to justify his own authoritarian desires.