Duggars by the Dozen 45: Life with Josh in Prison and Marrying as Fast as They Can

[Johannah]

Damn! Not that this means much, but I listened to that podcast interview they did after the trial and they seemed totally at ease together, no hint of conflict. 

I also wonder if Bobye’s experience testifying emboldened her to take action in other ways, and maybe opened her eyes to the nature of abuse. 

ISB, but I would guess an altercation happened between dad and son, and bobye is willing/compelled to stand up for him in a way she maybe wasn’t for herself. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 hours ago, Johannah said:

Damn! Not that this means much, but I listened to that podcast interview they did after the trial and they seemed totally at ease together, no hint of conflict. 

I also wonder if Bobye’s experience testifying emboldened her to take action in other ways, and maybe opened her eyes to the nature of abuse. 

ISB, but I would guess an altercation happened between dad and son, and bobye is willing/compelled to stand up for him in a way she maybe wasn’t for herself. 

From what I’ve heard from people who were in abusive relationships is that you can’t always tell from the outside looking in. People on FJ have remarked that Zoo and PP seem happy and loving in videos together. I will say that I have seen signs that he gaslights her and I don’t think they have a healthy or equal marriage. But if someone just saw them together online, you would think everything was fine with them. The abuse is very rarely constant. If a man abuses his wife once a year, they are still in an abusive relationship. Basically what I’m saying is that sometimes abuse in marriages is not surprising when it comes out in the open and sometimes it is. Abusive relationships can look very different with different couples. 

[Johannah]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

From what I’ve heard from people who were in abusive relationships is that you can’t always tell from the outside looking in. People on FJ have remarked that Zoo and PP seem happy and loving in videos together. I will say that I have seen signs that he gaslights her and I don’t think they have a healthy or equal marriage. But if someone just saw them together online, you would think everything was fine with them. The abuse is very rarely constant. If a man abuses his wife once a year, they are still in an abusive relationship. Basically what I’m saying is that sometimes abuse in marriages is not surprising when it comes out in the open and sometimes it is. Abusive relationships can look very different with different couples. 

I agree. And abuse is so ingrained in their religious culture and sanctioned in the form of marital rape and women being commanded to be submissive, that it makes sense that she would have become inured to it and not acted upon it until now.

It also makes more sense that she didn’t immediately report Josh. Not that that excuses it, but possibly helps explain it if she was a victim of abuse herself. Regardless of how it came about, I hope she now feels more empowered. Maybe Bobye’s testimony and action against her own abuser is a smidgen of a silver lining/positive outcome of josh’s heinous acts. 

[Jasmar]

23 hours ago, Johannah said:

Damn! Not that this means much, but I listened to that podcast interview they did after the trial and they seemed totally at ease together, no hint of conflict. 

I also wonder if Bobye’s experience testifying emboldened her to take action in other ways, and maybe opened her eyes to the nature of abuse. 

ISB, but I would guess an altercation happened between dad and son, and bobye is willing/compelled to stand up for him in a way she maybe wasn’t for herself. 

My ex and I used to do occasional dual-speaking engagements, and you can bet I knew very well how to make us look like a solid, easygoing couple. Behind the scenes? He was a manipulative, lying, controlling, covert-abusive asshole. But I thought I had to stay because Bible, so I put on a very good show.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Jasmar
Riffle

[Nikedagain?]

changing the subject a little bit, Is Carver still hanging around Hannie? I had the misfortune of stumbling upon his IG. I hate hate hate it, but he is immensely talented. Like he puts the Bates Boy Band members to shame, even Trav. 

Such a douchey Trumpist but he can sannggg. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

changing the subject a little bit, Is Carver still hanging around Hannie? I had the misfortune of stumbling upon his IG. I hate hate hate it, but he is immensely talented. Like he puts the Bates Boy Band members to shame, even Trav. 

Such a douchey Trumpist but he can sannggg. 

No. He has said they aren’t dating. I think he just hangs sound the Duggars and that means Hannie is there too. He seems to be busy with his band now. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

7 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

No. He has said they aren’t dating. I think he just hangs sound the Duggars and that means Hannie is there too. He seems to be busy with his band now. 

Considering the age difference, I'm not sure I trust that, but hopefully true. (I also don't trust Insurrectionists.)

[JermajestyDuggar]

43 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Considering the age difference, I'm not sure I trust that, but hopefully true. (I also don't trust Insurrectionists.)

He has seemed really busy with his new band. If he is dating her, he’s probably not seeing her as much as he could. 

[RainbowSky]

On 12/16/2022 at 10:41 PM, AussieKrissy said:

How different their life may have been if that babe had of stuck….. 

might not of ended up fundie 

may have had a baby with disabilities (if indeed they lost the babe due to chromosomal abnormalities)

may have came into fundieism later 

may not have had all J named kids 

I am still in aw that jcaleb and jubilee were her only unsuccessful pregnancies 

I’m not sure if jubilee was lost because of chromosomes or if Michelle’s body had just had enough and was worn down

I also wonder what life would be like if jubilee had of survived too, gone to term or been a micro premie like Josie? Would she have been as lucky as Josie. Never to wish I’ll on a child I would have hoped so  

but give credit to the women she and Kelly bates are true baby making machines. 
all wrong but there bodies are machines. 
 

 

Josie was born so early because Michelle has preeclampsia. 

[RainbowSky]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:24 PM, HereticHick said:

I just watched it and I feel the same way. I often find vacuous tourists to be obnoxious, but for James...I just feel sad. He honestly didn't know what country he was in. He didn't recognized Big Ben when he saw it. I will bet you anything he didn't know the name of the river he was crossing over. When they were in Covent Garden--I bet you anything he's never seen My Fair Lady and knows nothing about it.  This is all just...for a native English speaker like him...appalling. And they had smart phones in hand--they could have looked things up. It looked they were riding the Heathrow Express in to Paddington* Station--they could have used the wifi and looked at maps & thought about what might interest them. But thinking about what might interest them has been trained out of them. They walked by the British Museum, one of the greatest museums in the world, and didn't seem to have considered going in (it would have been much cheaper than the London Eye : )

*Yeah, I bet he doesn't know who Paddington Bear is either.

This is what fundy homeschooling does to a person. 

You do realize that many people wouldn't know these things? They're all something that someone would need to be interested in or forced into looking into, unless they're researching for a trip. I wouldn't know what literally any of those things are either. Maybe Big Ben? But I'm used to seeing clocks so maybe not.

I get the whole "Down with the Fundie way of doing things!" but that isn't exactly abnormal. I could go to the capital city here and laugh at people because they don't know what any of it is too but that doesn't have anything to do with being a Fundie and I'd just look like an asshole.*shrug*

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

1 hour ago, RainbowSky said:

You do realize that many people wouldn't know these things? They're all something that someone would need to be interested in or forced into looking into, unless they're researching for a trip. I wouldn't know what literally any of those things are either. Maybe Big Ben? But I'm used to seeing clocks so maybe not.

I get the whole "Down with the Fundie way of doing things!" but that isn't exactly abnormal. I could go to the capital city here and laugh at people because they don't know what any of it is too but that doesn't have anything to do with being a Fundie and I'd just look like an asshole.*shrug*

I think the cross section of people who go to the ark experience and the British National Museum is very slim--maybe only Bill Nye because he school the ark people.

BUT Duggars have only been taught they are special and it's their beliefs that matter. Let's face it, they are undereducated, egotistical, weaponized sheep.

[Meggo]

2 hours ago, RainbowSky said:

You do realize that many people wouldn't know these things? They're all something that someone would need to be interested in or forced into looking into, unless they're researching for a trip. I wouldn't know what literally any of those things are either. Maybe Big Ben? But I'm used to seeing clocks so maybe not.

I get the whole "Down with the Fundie way of doing things!" but that isn't exactly abnormal. I could go to the capital city here and laugh at people because they don't know what any of it is too but that doesn't have anything to do with being a Fundie and I'd just look like an asshole.*shrug*

That's fair - but if you're travelling to England - for vacation, and going to London - it would make sense to be like "oh - what's in London that's interesting or famous?" And chances are if you were raised in the mainstream - you've heard or seen SOMETHING about Picadilly or London Bridge or the Tower of London or Big Ben or Westminster or Buckingham Palace. Like these are all pretty common things to have heard of at least if you've been consuming average media. 
I get not researching if you're travelling for Work - like I've been to Denver for work and I rarely left the hotel so I didn't do any research. But if you're going on vacation ... do a little research, otherwise - why even go? Why go to Paris if you're not going to at least LOOK at the Eiffel Tower? 

[backyard sylph]

3 hours ago, Meggo said:

That's fair - but if you're travelling to England - for vacation, and going to London - it would make sense to be like "oh - what's in London that's interesting or famous?" And chances are if you were raised in the mainstream - you've heard or seen SOMETHING about Picadilly or London Bridge or the Tower of London or Big Ben or Westminster or Buckingham Palace. Like these are all pretty common things to have heard of at least if you've been consuming average media. 
I get not researching if you're travelling for Work - like I've been to Denver for work and I rarely left the hotel so I didn't do any research. But if you're going on vacation ... do a little research, otherwise - why even go? Why go to Paris if you're not going to at least LOOK at the Eiffel Tower? 

I really have no interest in whatever the Duggars are ignorant about in regards to travel, just assume it's plentiful. But if I were to travel to London, would those be the items I should put on my list? It's honestly never occurred to me to be highly interested in them. Probably I'd want to see Tate Modern and the National Gallery, and a couple old cemeteries. More so I'd want to head south and visit some coastal areas I've read about it books. 

I'll never get to do these things, just like thinking about them now and then. 

[JDuggs]

I’m not sure if I’m remembering this correctly, but I thought that James and Elijah weren’t planning to have that long layover in London. I think they found themselves with enough extra time to actually leave the airport, so they explored somewhat on the fly. I’m assuming they were tired and not up for intense sightseeing. James has a very annoying presence in his videos, I think that adds to him appearing unaware and too cool to be a tourist.

[Nothing if not critical]

I don’t think anybody here was laughing at James, nor (as I said in my original post) is there an expectation that Americans know every single detail about every European city they’re visiting. All I pointed out was that he seemed lost and overwhelmed and that he would have gotten a whole lot more out of his visit if he’d had a proper frame of reference for the things he saw. And that’s a statement I still stand by.

It doesn’t take a whole lot of research to search for the major sights of a place like London - you could do that on the Underground ride, even on a spontaneous visit. And yeah, that’s what I would do if I visited a place I’d never been to before. Not to feel superior but to get the most out of my visit *shrugs*. 
ETA: And if I was too tired for sightseeing I certainly wouldn’t post a video of me stumbling aimlessly around town. But that’s a whole different topic.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Nothing if not critical

[Meggo]

11 hours ago, backyard sylph said:

I really have no interest in whatever the Duggars are ignorant about in regards to travel, just assume it's plentiful. But if I were to travel to London, would those be the items I should put on my list? It's honestly never occurred to me to be highly interested in them. Probably I'd want to see Tate Modern and the National Gallery, and a couple old cemeteries. More so I'd want to head south and visit some coastal areas I've read about it books. 

I'll never get to do these things, just like thinking about them now and then. 

But that's it - you'd go to places you read about in books. And you'd want to see art. I'm not sure their homeschooling covered much in the way of art or secular books. 
My favorite way to experience a place is to just get lost. Find one or two things that I want to see (and I didn't see Buckingham Palace when I was there -I think I saw Westminster, I did go to the Tower, did see London Bridge) and then just get lost at a pub for an afternoon. 

[feministxtian]

20 hours ago, Meggo said:

like I've been to Denver for work and I rarely left the hotel so I didn't do any research.

Denver is BORING if you're not into the outdoorsy stuff. There is no real food scene either, and since the pandemic, everything closes around 9pm. There's a couple of decent enough museums, a couple of nice concert venues, but in reality, it's boring AF. 

Source: me. 

[Meggo]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

Denver is BORING if you're not into the outdoorsy stuff. There is no real food scene either, and since the pandemic, everything closes around 9pm. There's a couple of decent enough museums, a couple of nice concert venues, but in reality, it's boring AF. 

Source: me. 

I literally walked from the hotel - down a road to the ...baseball stadium? And then back. I went to one along the way (maybe two) and I went to the CVS. And that - my friends - was my experience in Denver. Work travel is not all it's cracked up to be....

[keen23]

Hey, Denver has a Meow Wolf. And I wish I had taken edibles before I went into it. Next time. We are heading to Golden this summer to see a couple of shows at Red Rocks and to do the Coors brewery tour.

[feministxtian]

38 minutes ago, keen23 said:

Hey, Denver has a Meow Wolf. And I wish I had taken edibles before I went into it. Next time. We are heading to Golden this summer to see a couple of shows at Red Rocks and to do the Coors brewery tour.

I haven't been to the Meow Wolf yet. When I move back up to Denver, I'll probably take my grandson. I plan on hitting a few concerts later this summer. The shitty part is doing it all alone. 

[OHFL2009]

56 minutes ago, Meggo said:

I literally walked from the hotel - down a road to the ...baseball stadium? And then back. I went to one along the way (maybe two) and I went to the CVS. And that - my friends - was my experience in Denver. Work travel is not all it's cracked up to be....

My friends always think my work travel sounds so exciting and glamorous. They must be right, since I can't think of anything more glamorous than sitting in my hotel room in Pittsburgh eating takeout Chinese, looking out the window at a roof full of AC units in 40˚F rain.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, keen23 said:

Hey, Denver has a Meow Wolf. And I wish I had taken edibles before I went into it. Next time. We are heading to Golden this summer to see a couple of shows at Red Rocks and to do the Coors brewery tour.

I don’t do drugs, but when I went to the Meow Wolf in Vegas, my reaction was, “I should really be high for this.” 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Work travel is always so blah.  I won't be traveling alone for a while - I only travel for continuing education and now that I have a young child will be taking the whole family to these for a few years - but mostly it was takeout and back to the hotel.  My husband was attacked by a peacock on his last work trip who stole his dinner and I still laugh about it.  That's what happens when you go to the zoo instead of being a recluse.

[CarrotCake]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:46 AM, Nothing if not critical said:

I don’t think anybody here was laughing at James, nor (as I said in my original post) is there an expectation that Americans know every single detail about every European city they’re visiting. All I pointed out was that he seemed lost and overwhelmed and that he would have gotten a whole lot more out of his visit if he’d had a proper frame of reference for the things he saw. And that’s a statement I still stand by.

It doesn’t take a whole lot of research to search for the major sights of a place like London - you could do that on the Underground ride, even on a spontaneous visit. And yeah, that’s what I would do if I visited a place I’d never been to before. Not to feel superior but to get the most out of my visit *shrugs*. 
ETA: And if I was too tired for sightseeing I certainly wouldn’t post a video of me stumbling aimlessly around town. But that’s a whole different topic.

Also, every big European city has a hop on/hop off bus where you can do sightseeing while you just sit in your chair. No walking, no need to research. You can be lazy and still have braging rights that you saw the whole city, seems perfect for fundies.

Except for maybe that they have to pay for it...

[Gobsmacked]

16 hours ago, feministxtian said:

Denver is BORING if you're not into the outdoorsy stuff. There is no real food scene either, and since the pandemic, everything closes around 9pm. There's a couple of decent enough museums, a couple of nice concert venues, but in reality, it's boring AF. 

Source: me. 

I ate the best sausage, mashed spuds and onion gravy outside of Lancashire on a visit to Denver! We visited Margaret Browns house too ( I’m a Titanic nerd). The snow was unreal that year - 16 years or so ago. We took the boys to the capitol building too. The boys were fascinated by the steam rising from the road surfaces. We had been only seen that on the tele!