Duggars by the Dozen 45: Life with Josh in Prison and Marrying as Fast as They Can

[Mama Mia]

8 minutes ago, shesinsane said:

There are some people who think pants reveal the outline of a woman's legs to an immodest degree and for them, wearing a skirt over pants allows them to wear pants (for whatever reason) without revealing their leg shape. 

But in the Duggar family, I think skirts-only is less about modesty and more about rigid gender roles and strict parental control. Not being allowed to wear pants is a daily reminder that you're a girl, with all the burdens (you must prevent boys from lusting after you), limitations (you can grow up to be a missionary, midwife, or mother), and blessings (you get to birth as many babies as The Lord allows) that fundie Christian girls have. And as long as you live under your father's umbrella of protection, pants are off limits.

Although single Jana does wear pants now, but none of the teen girls. I don’t know, for Michelle I think it would be a big stretch to give up the skirts only - from habit, belief, show of sticking to it — but also, just physically, after that many pregnancies she might be more comfortable in things that are loose. I know she wears leggings /tights, and they might feel supportive, but jeans might be restrictive in ways that don’t feel good on her. Idle speculation on my part, but based on personal experience. 

[Hera]

33 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Although single Jana does wear pants now, but none of the teen girls. I don’t know, for Michelle I think it would be a big stretch to give up the skirts only - from habit, belief, show of sticking to it — but also, just physically, after that many pregnancies she might be more comfortable in things that are loose. I know she wears leggings /tights, and they might feel supportive, but jeans might be restrictive in ways that don’t feel good on her. Idle speculation on my part, but based on personal experience. 

Not a fundie at all, but I do prefer dresses to pants and shorts or even skirts. They’re just more comfortable to me. I hate feeling something constricting around my waist. That said, I can and do wear pants and shorts when I feel like it. Which is the point. 

[Smee]

A friend of mine shared a post last week about clothing choices in the fundie homeschool environment she grew up in (I mentioned this in one of the other threads also), this is what she said about the reasoning behind no pants/jeans:

 

Within this culture, the main criterion for a girl’s clothing was that it should be modest; that is, it should avoid drawing any attention to the girl’s body.  However, there were additional criteria.  It was crucial for girls’ clothes to be appropriately feminine.  They also had to avoid being too trendy and “worldly” on the one hand, or too casual and untidy on the other.

In practice, this meant that the vast majority of clothes were considered inappropriate.  Short skirts were immodest, while tracksuit pants were not sufficiently feminine.  Jeans were particularly deplorable, since they were not only unfeminine, but were also too tight-fitting to be modest.  Consequently, long skirts and dresses were the only approved option.  Hemlines were generally ankle-length, or perhaps a little shorter; any hemline that was closer to the knee than the ankle was likely to be considered provocative.  

 

(Smee again) She also talked a lot about conformity amongst homeschool families, gifts of hand me downs, mothers commiserating together etc. She said that when her parents somewhat abruptly decided that jeans were ok, the timing coincided with similar decisions from other families in their circle.  It’s interesting to me that the Duggars skirts are shorter than they were in the early days, and their clothing has generally become more modernised and form fitting, but they’re clinging to skirts. At this point I think it’s about stubbornness and pride after all Michelle said publicly and the way TLC made it into a *thing* with Jinger.

[JermajestyDuggar]

50 minutes ago, Smee said:

A friend of mine shared a post last week about clothing choices in the fundie homeschool environment she grew up in (I mentioned this in one of the other threads also), this is what she said about the reasoning behind no pants/jeans:

 

Within this culture, the main criterion for a girl’s clothing was that it should be modest; that is, it should avoid drawing any attention to the girl’s body.  However, there were additional criteria.  It was crucial for girls’ clothes to be appropriately feminine.  They also had to avoid being too trendy and “worldly” on the one hand, or too casual and untidy on the other.

In practice, this meant that the vast majority of clothes were considered inappropriate.  Short skirts were immodest, while tracksuit pants were not sufficiently feminine.  Jeans were particularly deplorable, since they were not only unfeminine, but were also too tight-fitting to be modest.  Consequently, long skirts and dresses were the only approved option.  Hemlines were generally ankle-length, or perhaps a little shorter; any hemline that was closer to the knee than the ankle was likely to be considered provocative.  

 

(Smee again) She also talked a lot about conformity amongst homeschool families, gifts of hand me downs, mothers commiserating together etc. She said that when her parents somewhat abruptly decided that jeans were ok, the timing coincided with similar decisions from other families in their circle.  It’s interesting to me that the Duggars skirts are shorter than they were in the early days, and their clothing has generally become more modernised and form fitting, but they’re clinging to skirts. At this point I think it’s about stubbornness and pride after all Michelle said publicly and the way TLC made it into a *thing* with Jinger.

Fundies can pretend they make their own choices and aren’t persuaded by others but they most definitely are. Many fundies started wearing pants within a few years of one another. Now ALERT big Sandy family camp is filled with women in pants. Only 5 years ago that would have been unheard of. Fundies also aren’t using the word “courtship” as much now that Josh Harris has denounced his own book. They all influence each other all the time. 

[Expectopatronus]

Wow, Jenni is tall! She’s the same height as Jill now! Hannie and Jordyn look to be the same height as each other but much shorter than Jenni. I find the range of height fascinating as they seem to cluster in groups. Genes are amazing! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

53 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

Wow, Jenni is tall! She’s the same height as Jill now! Hannie and Jordyn look to be the same height as each other but much shorter than Jenni. I find the range of height fascinating as they seem to cluster in groups. Genes are amazing! 

 My sister and I are the same height and we are both very tall. It’s strange that we are the same height. If you look at the tall Richardson sisters, their heights vary a lot. I think the tallest sister is 6’2” and I swear Leah doesn’t seem any taller than 5’7” to me. Out of all 7, I doubt any are the exact same height. 

[Cam]

12 hours ago, shesinsane said:

But in the Duggar family, I think skirts-only is less about modesty and more about rigid gender roles and strict parental control. Not being allowed to wear pants is a daily reminder that you're a girl, with all the burdens (you must prevent boys from lusting after you), limitations (you can grow up to be a missionary, midwife, or mother), and blessings (you get to birth as many babies as The Lord allows) that fundie Christian girls have. And as long as you live under your father's umbrella of protection, pants are off limits.

I agree, the skirts are about strict parental code. And remember how the older girls had permed hair cuz their dad liked it? That’s probably one reason the younger ones wear skirts, cuz Daddy says thats what good little girls do. 

 

10 hours ago, Smee said:

It’s interesting to me that the Duggars skirts are shorter than they were in the early days, and their clothing has generally become more modernised and form fitting, but they’re clinging to skirts. 

Yes, the skirts the younger daughters wear are much shorter than those which the older ones wore. 
It’s been mentioned before, and I tend to agree that IBLP is trying to modernize their image slightly by updating their stance on what clothing for women is acceptable. 
 

I can’t ever keep the 16th, 17th and 18th daughters’ names straight. 

[AussieKrissy]

I see the news making the rounds is that James (fast becoming my least fav duggar) liked a post about Uganda outlawing homosexuality. I did wonder why that popped up on my socials. Now I know why. It’s not something I agree with. 
 

[Idlewild]

Jinger refers to James’s visit as a ‘surprise’. I doubt Jeremy wants the hillbilly bigot tarnishing his image! 

[Knight of Ni]

14 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I see the news making the rounds is that James (fast becoming my least fav duggar) liked a post about Uganda outlawing homosexuality. I did wonder why that popped up on my socials. Now I know why. It’s not something I agree with. 
 

I think I also read that he was the one always waving a confederate flag. 

[Johannah]

Wasn’t James the sweet sensitive chess player in childhood who was on Jill’s buddy team?

When did Jana start wearing pants and why is she allowed to? Is this an official line now? Will Johannah get a pair of jeans when she turns 18? 30?

Also, based on her past cheerleader days, her (maybe?) social nature, and that squat pose with her daughters, I have a feeling if she hadn’t been found Jesus via Jim Bob as a high school student, Michelle would have LOVED being in a sorority. Probably Jessa would have too. 

[clueliss]

James was on Jill’s buddy team but one of the boy twins was the chess player.  James mowed the name of the orange jerk in the lawn and hid his math wisdom book and pretended it was lost rather than doing his schoolwork.

[JermajestyDuggar]

James seems to be a lot like the man he was named after. 

[marmalade]

34 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

James seems to be a lot like the man he was named after. 

That's not a ringing endorsement. And James certainly isn't doing anything to demonstrate that he's a decent human being.

[JermajestyDuggar]

46 minutes ago, marmalade said:

That's not a ringing endorsement. And James certainly isn't doing anything to demonstrate that he's a decent human being.

It wasn’t meant to be a complement.

[marmalade]

48 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It wasn’t meant to be a complement.

Oh, I know. I was reinforcing your sentiment. 😃

[Tangy Bee]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

James seems to be a lot like the man he was named after. 

It must be nice traveling often. James is an adult now, and I'm just curious about what he does for work. Gas, lodging, and plane tickets are very expensive these days. I know the Duggars own a plane, but I don't think they use it for international traveling.🤔

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

On 3/9/2023 at 3:29 PM, FiveAcres said:

Sort of like ChatGPT:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/chatgpt-openai-artificial-intelligence-writing-ethics/672386/

I'm a prof who has fed chatgpt exam qs and it's actually very polite and apologetic if you call it on its bullshit 😂

[Bluebirdbluebell]

 

On 4/5/2023 at 7:37 AM, Cam said:

I agree, the skirts are about strict parental code. And remember how the older girls had permed hair cuz their dad liked it? That’s probably one reason the younger ones wear skirts, cuz Daddy says thats what good little girls do. 

 

Yes, the skirts the younger daughters wear are much shorter than those which the older ones wore. 
It’s been mentioned before, and I tend to agree that IBLP is trying to modernize their image slightly by updating their stance on what clothing for women is acceptable. 
 

I can’t ever keep the 16th, 17th and 18th daughters’ names straight. 

I saw a youtube video Michelle do an appearance with Jim Bob. They discussed the "skirts only" thing. Michelle made it clear it was her decision to do only skirts.  JB went along with it and then they got involved with IBLP.  

I remember the names of the youngest girls, but Josie is the only I can recognize by sight. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Bluebirdbluebell

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:48 AM, SassyPants said:

I traveled across country at 28 weeks, but my Dr.required an internal exam before I left on the trip. I was fine.

Last trip I took was 2 months before my due date- which ended up being a little over a month at the end, because my child was early (for unrelated reasons)- and the doc made me do an exam and made me look up hospitals, etc. at my destination and have an emergency plan in place before he signed the "good to go" paper.

[Smee]

9 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

I'm a prof who has fed chatgpt exam qs and it's actually very polite and apologetic if you call it on its bullshit 😂

Unless you TELL it not to be polite 😉

[CanadianMamam]

On 4/2/2023 at 10:51 AM, xenobia said:

I don't follow the Bates that much. Why was the reveal in Arkansas? Don't they live in TN?

The gender reveal was in Tennessee. Several of the younger Duggars made the trip. James and Jason are often in Tennessee at Trace's. 

However, Nathan and Jackson Bates both live in Arkansas. 

[HereticHick]

Who are the Duggar ladies in Ester Bates' picture about a gals spring luncheon? Joy, Abbie and Hannah?  I can't keep these fundies straight!

[Italiangirl]

Joy, Abbie Hannah and Katey, plus there is Esther Bates and the brunette on the back of Abby is Gabby Petito (?) 

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, Italiangirl said:

Joy, Abbie Hannah and Katey, plus there is Esther Bates and the brunette on the back of Abby is Gabby Petito (?) 

Gabby Petito is the girl who was murdered by her bf 😬

I know who all of them are except the two on either side of Abbie. This group is called “The Real Housewives of Medicorp.”