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CarVan12: Health Scare Continues ... and Worsens :(


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6 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

I’m not American so I have no idea as to how these things work but for people who can’t afford medical tests but make too much to qualify for Medicaid, what happens? 
What if someone is in an accident and has no insurance? Would the hospital let them die? I find American health care confusing ! Here you might wait 1 year or more for non-emergency tests but everyone has equal access. 

No, they can’t refuse life saving medical care based on lack of insurance. But you’ll still get billed! Lots of people just don’t pay their enormous hospital bills because they can’t. The US is really fucked in this aspect.

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1 hour ago, Expectopatronus said:

I’m not American so I have no idea as to how these things work but for people who can’t afford medical tests but make too much to qualify for Medicaid, what happens? 
What if someone is in an accident and has no insurance? Would the hospital let them die? I find American health care confusing ! Here you might wait 1 year or more for non-emergency tests but everyone has equal access. 

It's very complicated. 

But in the end yes some people just die.

Here the emergency room cannot refuse you. So if you have some situation that can be treated at the emergency room it will be treated. You will be billed and you may become bankrupt because of this.

This is the "good" part of us healthcare.

Where is gets bad is when you need follow up care or you have a chronic condition.

These are not life threatening situations. Once the emergency room (ER) stabilizes you, you leave. No doctor has to see you after that. If you need a orthopedic surgeon to look at you and give advice, then do a surgery...

You must pay for it or that Dr will not see you.

In a situation like Carlin's: the ambulance will come and take you to ER. ER may give you temporary medicine to get you stabilized but then you are expected to go follow up with primary care Dr. That's on your money and ability cognitively and health wise to set up.

If the primary care Dr sees you and says 100$ fee. "Yep you got a problem I will refer you to the migraine Dr. And do this test too" that's not free and you will not be able to see the Dr without paying.

Now you have ER bills, ambulance bills, primary care Dr bills, blood work bills, x-rays, scans whatever you're paying yourself at high rates.

So you call the migraine Dr. You can't work you MUST get this resolved. The migraine Dr says "ok.sure. my consultation fee is 500$ plus I need you to do more scans and tests." You will pay him or he will not see you.

It goes on and on. And none of it is free. The only thing is that emergency service providers can't deny you services. Many people go round and round to the ER because they have no primary care Dr and have no way to get one (money).

 

This literally happened to me. I had no insurance and needed surgery. I couldn't work.  I couldn't get a referral to a specialist because I needed a primary care Dr. I didn't have a primary care Dr because I was broke with no insurance. I ended up in the ER several times. I went to a low income clinic trying to get a referral to a specialist. I called ahead asked if they did that. Yes. I went. Waited hours in agony. They took my money. Brought me back. Took my blood pressure and said "oh we don't do referrals"

Eventually extended family members just raised part of the money. My mother negotiated fees with a surgeon. And we charged thousands of dollars on credit cards. I was out of work for months. It was a huge financial set back. This was years ago, a small issue, and it cost about 27 thousand dollars I didn't have. I paid various payments to ERs, clinics , credit cards, for many years.

This is why "go fund me" is a big deal in USA. People often use it to fund medical issues.

Even when you have insurance you can have huges expenses. There's something called a "deductible".and it can be thousands of dollars. If your insurance has a high deductible almost nothing is "free/included " on your insurance until you've had the deductible amount of bills.

For ex. If your deductible is 6000.00$ then the insurance plan won't pay until you've already paid 6000.00$ in medical bills.

 

Always remember in USA health care is (generally) "for profit" and has powerful political lobbies that overpower individual Americans' best interests.

 

Edited by WatchingTheTireFireBurn
So many typos. And added for clarity
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If you don’t have insurance, always ask for an itemized bill and cash discount.  If you are able to pay in full it is sometimes more than 50% less than with insurance.  The itemized bill is so you can look and say “I refused the Tylenol” or whatever.  I think in some states you can also argue too big of a price inflation.

I’m lucky Dh has good insurance.  But getting in to specialists or for tests is still a pain.  I’ve been putting off calls just because how long making an appt takes on the phone.

I also learned you can request the ambulance to go to a hospital that isn’t closer to you in some instances.

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Getting into Mayo for neurological issues rarely happens.  The way it was explained to me is Mayo is a full body clinic.  So their patients are usually seeing multiple specialists at Mayo and nuero rarely takes referrals for just neurological.

My doctors sent a referral to Mayo because nobody can figure out what the heck is going on, except they all agree it’s Nuero.  Mayo said they would run the same tests and try the same meds so they declined.  Plus I’m seeing one of the best headache doctors in my state.  They might take me now since more than nuero is going on.

Several people are mad that I’m not making my appointments right now and getting all the tests.  They want me to see physical therapy, marriage therapist. Personal therapist, primary doctor, cardiologist, headache specialist and it’s just too much.  If it was my kid the appointments would be scheduled.  But it’s honestly just too much for me.  So I feel Carlin.  The hesitation may be more scared that nothing will come back and somedays that’s scarier than the prospect of getting answers.

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3 minutes ago, KWLand said:

If you don’t have insurance, always ask for an itemized bill and cash discount.  If you are able to pay in full it is sometimes more than 50% less than with insurance.  The itemized bill is so you can look and say “I refused the Tylenol” or whatever.  I think in some states you can also argue too big of a price inflation.

I’m lucky Dh has good insurance.  But getting in to specialists or for tests is still a pain.  I’ve been putting off calls just because how long making an appt takes on the phone.

I also learned you can request the ambulance to go to a hospital that isn’t closer to you in some instances.

If you're savy you can get on the phone and complain and advocate and get reductions.

I didn't know about this when I was sick. Nobody in my circle did. But over the months my mother started calling everybody and figuring out a plan. It is very difficult if you are very ill,  not computer savy, or not good at working the phones.

It really makes a difference whether you have people who can help you through all this.

But if you're sick and have limited support network you're often just on your own. I had to move states and live separately from my husband so he could work while I could be with my extended family who did a lot of this advocacy on my behalf.

It's scary how easily you can fall in the cracks or lose it all due to health issues. 

 

Oh and to the non-usa poster. Medicaid does not apply to many people. And in several states it applies to even less people because they refused to expand coverage. So depending on the state you live in you may have significantly worse options and be much more financially impacted than another person elsewhere.

---

The flip side of all this is IF you have money. You can literally just call up the Dr's you want and pay to get what you need done. This is why I don't understand why they haven't done that test. When you have money you're not stuck with whatever hospital is local to you  or approved by your insurance. You call around and you set it up At whatever place has availability . Maybe with a short wait time but not years. 

 

2 minutes ago, KWLand said:

Getting into Mayo for neurological issues rarely happens.  The way it was explained to me is Mayo is a full body clinic.  So their patients are usually seeing multiple specialists at Mayo and nuero rarely takes referrals for just neurological.

My doctors sent a referral to Mayo because nobody can figure out what the heck is going on, except they all agree it’s Nuero.  Mayo said they would run the same tests and try the same meds so they declined.  Plus I’m seeing one of the best headache doctors in my state.  They might take me now since more than nuero is going on.

Several people are mad that I’m not making my appointments right now and getting all the tests.  They want me to see physical therapy, marriage therapist. Personal therapist, primary doctor, cardiologist, headache specialist and it’s just too much.  If it was my kid the appointments would be scheduled.  But it’s honestly just too much for me.  So I feel Carlin.  The hesitation may be more scared that nothing will come back and somedays that’s scarier than the prospect of getting answers.

I used to know people who worked at Mayo. In addition to being more of a systemic approach...they also deal with wealthy people from the whole world.

The doctors there want to do unusual cases, rare cases....or rich people cases.

 

KWLand. I feel for you. It's a mess to navigate when you feel well. Once you get overwhelmed it's nearly impossible. When I feel that way I just pick 1 thing. One call, one email, whatever and if you get that done then thats a win. Take a break and plan your next win.

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57 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

If you're savy you can get on the phone and complain and advocate and get reductions.

I didn't know about this when I was sick. Nobody in my circle did. But over the months my mother started calling everybody and figuring out a plan. It is very difficult if you are very ill,  not computer savy, or not good at working the phones.

It really makes a difference whether you have people who can help you through all this.

But if you're sick and have limited support network you're often just on your own. I had to move states and live separately from my husband so he could work while I could be with my extended family who did a lot of this advocacy on my behalf.

It's scary how easily you can fall in the cracks or lose it all due to health issues. 

 

Oh and to the non-usa poster. Medicaid does not apply to many people. And in several states it applies to even less people because they refused to expand coverage. So depending on the state you live in you may have significantly worse options and be much more financially impacted than another person elsewhere.

---

The flip side of all this is IF you have money. You can literally just call up the Dr's you want and pay to get what you need done. This is why I don't understand why they haven't done that test. When you have money you're not stuck with whatever hospital is local to you  or approved by your insurance. You call around and you set it up At whatever place has availability . Maybe with a short wait time but not years. 

 

I used to know people who worked at Mayo. In addition to being more of a systemic approach...they also deal with wealthy people from the whole world.

The doctors there want to do unusual cases, rare cases....or rich people cases.

 

KWLand. I feel for you. It's a mess to navigate when you feel well. Once you get overwhelmed it's nearly impossible. When I feel that way I just pick 1 thing. One call, one email, whatever and if you get that done then thats a win. Take a break and plan your next win.

Thank you.  Most weeks my win is getting to physical therapy and out of the house at least once with a lot of kid hugs and small chats thrown in.  I’m in the midst of a med adjustment so didn’t make PT and spent the day laying in bed crying.  But I made it and soon my meds will kick in and I’ll sleep.  

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10 minutes ago, KWLand said:

Thank you.  Most weeks my win is getting to physical therapy and out of the house at least once with a lot of kid hugs and small chats thrown in.  I’m in the midst of a med adjustment so didn’t make PT and spent the day laying in bed crying.  But I made it and soon my meds will kick in and I’ll sleep.  

Hey maybe tomorrow's win can be sitting up in bed. Crying is allowed! It's not baseball. 

If that's too much-sometimes the win is simply planning for Thursday's task. I hope you get rest tonight.

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23 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Hey maybe tomorrow's win can be sitting up in bed. Crying is allowed! It's not baseball. 

If that's too much-sometimes the win is simply planning for Thursday's task. I hope you get rest tonight.

Thank you so much.

want to be clear I think the world of Mayo.  My loved one moved to get all the treatment she needed and they are amazing.  She’s thriving and any new health concerns are checked immediately.   They have to be choosy.

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44 minutes ago, KWLand said:

Thank you so much.

want to be clear I think the world of Mayo.  My loved one moved to get all the treatment she needed and they are amazing.  She’s thriving and any new health concerns are checked immediately.   They have to be choosy.

Mayo is amazing.  I wish we could have that level of amazing throughout our Healthcare system!

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On 9/13/2022 at 1:47 PM, marmalade said:

Poor Layla has a double ear infection. According to Carlin, she's on "anabiotocs." Does this girl ever read ANYTHING?

No doubt the result of her "edumacation" at the SOTDRT probably using Gothard's "Wisdom Booklets."  I still chuckle at Michelle in the Duggars' very first TV special, "14 Kids and Pregnant Again," trying to explain "bankruptcy" to a table of 11 children ranging from 16 (Josh) down to about 5 (twins Jer & Jed).  Jason & James may have been hanging around (w/ their older buddies), but Jason, James, and Justin were barely toddlers, and Jackson was the one M was "pregnant again" with at the time (2004).  Of course, the final string of 4 girls weren't around yet.  Hey, they may not be able to do simple math, but boy that lesson on bankruptcy equipped them w/ the Dave Ramsey school of family finances.  Can't pay your financial obligations?  Just declare bankruptcy.

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11 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

I’m not American so I have no idea as to how these things work but for people who can’t afford medical tests but make too much to qualify for Medicaid, what happens? 
What if someone is in an accident and has no insurance? Would the hospital let them die? I find American health care confusing ! Here you might wait 1 year or more for non-emergency tests but everyone has equal access. 

  If someone arrived in an emergency room unconscious, the staff would provide treatment regardless of insurance status. A conscious patient could decline treatment, but that would be unlikely with a severe injury.   
    The patient could later bargain with the hospital about the humongous cost and set up a payment plan, but they are screwed. (Uncovered medical care is tax deductible, but the uninsured are unlikely to make enough for that to be helpful.)   
  Medical expenses are the number one reason Americans declare bankruptcy. 
    

Edited by Bastet
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@WatchingTheTireFireBurn First I‘m so sorry what happened to you years ago. The US health care system seems to cruel.

10 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

This is why I don't understand why they haven't done that test. When you have money you're not stuck with whatever hospital is local to you  or approved by your insurance.

I came here to say this exact sentiment but you worded it better than I ever could. We speculate that Carlin and Evan still have crappy insurance despite being so well off with Carlin’s influencer money and the boutique. If this is true I’m truly baffled. 

We have an expensive but good health care system. Still if I had the money I would sign up for private health insurance in a heartbeat. You can see whoever you want which is invaluable if a complex health problem arises.

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The name Mayo Clinic always just makes me think:

509D7B24-6C1F-4BC2-B4D6-B3B081FC2276.thumb.jpeg.902debf1d3baf8c8d6929c57d4795c8f.jpeg

Oooh apparently there’s a branch of the Mayo Clinic in London!!

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5 hours ago, Smash! said:

@WatchingTheTireFireBurn First I‘m so sorry what happened to you years ago. The US health care system seems to cruel.

I came here to say this exact sentiment but you worded it better than I ever could. We speculate that Carlin and Evan still have crappy insurance despite being so well off with Carlin’s influencer money and the boutique. If this is true I’m truly baffled. 

We have an expensive but good health care system. Still if I had the money I would sign up for private health insurance in a heartbeat. You can see whoever you want which is invaluable if a complex health problem arises.

I am not American so this is speculation based on what I know of the American healthcare system. Isn't it harder to get insurance with medical issues? So if Carlin and Evan has insurance through the electrical union and lost it when he left his job wouldn't that make it harder to find a new provider? 

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I watched the newest video and may I just say that at least these two came a long way from the good old Gothard doctrine. The wife not working outside the house doctrine thing.  And then there is Evan.  Proudly showing off that his wife invites him and her employees to a fancy dinner. It was a bit cheesy, as always, but that really made me smile.

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29 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

I am not American so this is speculation based on what I know of the American healthcare system. Isn't it harder to get insurance with medical issues? So if Carlin and Evan has insurance through the electrical union and lost it when he left his job wouldn't that make it harder to find a new provider? 

Good point!

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I’m truly baffled to read about the American health care system. To me it seems it has far less to do with saving lives or treat illnesses and much more about making money to the hospital owners/doctors. 
 

What I don’t get is when you say people just don’t pay their hospital bills. What happens then? And what does it mean to declare bankruptcy? Can you sort of start over financially? Where I live I’ve never heard of anyone being in trouble for not paying hospital bills, but of course there is a limit here for how much you have to pay. For some it’s still a lot of money (hard to say how much it would be, maybe something like 500-600€/year?) but you can get help. I can definitely say that no one here will die or not get treatment because they couldn’t afford it. 

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46 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

I am not American so this is speculation based on what I know of the American healthcare system. Isn't it harder to get insurance with medical issues? So if Carlin and Evan has insurance through the electrical union and lost it when he left his job wouldn't that make it harder to find a new provider? 

Not anymore.  At least not in my state. All my current health conditions and care will be covered under insurance.  I thought was federal buy be incorrect.  
 

finding a new provider could be hard.  If she went to the ER, there is a chance that the specialist she saw there would take her in as a patient, but that’s not always the case.

where we are located the good doctors have long waiting lists and the bad ones don’t.  It’s a shame because you want to be seen quickly, but want a good doctor.  My primary had me make an appt with the bad one because I needed a test that needed ordered by the specialist.  “You won’t like him, he has horrible bedside manners, but he can order the test.”  

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13 minutes ago, KWLand said:

Not anymore.  At least not in my state. All my current health conditions and care will be covered under insurance.  I thought was federal buy be incorrect.  
 

This is correct. This is one piece of the federal Affordable Care Act.

There were some pre-existing condition limitation prohibitions for group health insurance under HIPAA, but we didn't see full prohibitions for all markets until the ACA.

This is of course not true for health care sharing ministries or other alternative arrangements.

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19 minutes ago, Cupcake79 said:

I’m truly baffled to read about the American health care system. To me it seems it has far less to do with saving lives or treat illnesses and much more about making money to the hospital owners/doctors. 
 

What I don’t get is when you say people just don’t pay their hospital bills. What happens then? And what does it mean to declare bankruptcy? Can you sort of start over financially? Where I live I’ve never heard of anyone being in trouble for not paying hospital bills, but of course there is a limit here for how much you have to pay. For some it’s still a lot of money (hard to say how much it would be, maybe something like 500-600€/year?) but you can get help. I can definitely say that no one here will die or not get treatment because they couldn’t afford it. 

It’s really hard to understand and I may not get all correct but my understanding is

There are private and public hospitals.  Owned by different entities.  The private is more expensive but usually better quality and pays staff more and the public is cheaper but longer waits equaling less quality, less staff and less up to date equipment (I could be wrong so hopefully someone correct me)

since insurance pays, they not only set the cost but approve the procedure prior.  Except in emergency and then you just hope they agree the care you received was needed.  So the insurances that work with the hospital set cost.

Hospital A may say Tylenol costs $100 a tablet.  Administering this tablet is another $100 and the time it takes for the nurse is another $100.  Plus $200 for the doctor to put orders in.  You then get a bill and the insurance decides how much they pay to the hospital or write off and how much you do.

one of the reasons it’s all crazy expensive is because schooling is crazy expensive.  A doctor may graduate with $200k+ in loans and put in crazy long hours barely making minimum wage the first couple of years of training.  Equipment is expensive to buy and it costs money to be trained in some.

it’s just all ridiculous so the cost gets passsd to the patient.  Those with bad insurance get hit harder than those with good, which stinks because I’d assume the better insurance the better job and more $$ you make.

medical loans can be written off.  Majority of my brothers were.  Partly because the hospital thought he’d die so the paperwork was submitted and then when he lived the settlement he had paid the rest. But if you have a balance they only have to see you in the ED and stabilize you.  Doctor offices, specialists and certain tests can be denied.

there are some things universally covered like Pap smears, childhood vaccinations and I believe annual physical  Covid vaccinations are also free as is testing.

back to payment.  I think most places so try to practice good faith payment, meaning as long as you are paying some they’ll not pester you but loans get sold so if it’s so they can fight for full payment right away.

it’s ridiculous and one of those things that should have been fixed before it got to this point

 

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2 hours ago, Cupcake79 said:

What I don’t get is when you say people just don’t pay their hospital bills. What happens then? And what does it mean to declare bankruptcy? Can you sort of start over financially? Where I live I’ve never heard of anyone being in trouble for not paying hospital bills, but of course there is a limit here for how much you have to pay. For some it’s still a lot of money (hard to say how much it would be, maybe something like 500-600€/year?) but you can get help. I can definitely say that no one here will die or not get treatment because they couldn’t afford it. 

This gives you an idea about medical debt in the U.S:

 https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/medical-debt-what-do-when-you-cant-pay/

Declaring bankruptcy hurts your credit which makes it hard to have loans extended to you, including mortgages and credit cards, or rent properties. It can also sometimes require you to give away your assets, like cars or houses or savings.

There are a lot of uninsured people in the US who get care in other ways, like clinics. But luckily with the Affordable Care Act ("Obamacare"), anyone can buy an affordable and even good quality Qualified Health Plan (insurance), which got a lot of people insured who previously were stuck in that point of being over-income for Medicaid, but in a job without insurance.

Also, I think a lot of fundies use religious plans as a type of alternative insurance. I'm guessing some of the Bates do that since they are able to give birth in hospitals.

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6 hours ago, Cupcake79 said:

I’m truly baffled to read about the American health care system. To me it seems it has far less to do with saving lives or treat illnesses and much more about making money to the hospital owners/doctors. 
 

What I don’t get is when you say people just don’t pay their hospital bills. What happens then? And what does it mean to declare bankruptcy? Can you sort of start over financially? Where I live I’ve never heard of anyone being in trouble for not paying hospital bills, but of course there ....(snip)

The American Healthcare system exists to make a profit.  #1 purpose.

Anything else is socialism and socialism is communism and communism is evil (not actually true, but American "logic")

 

Before "obamacare" if you had any preexisting conditions and needed to change insurance the new insurance would not cover it. Now there's a rule that preexisting conditions must be covered. 

And that some basic preventative medicine like a yearly checkup and screenings like pap smears are included free in every insurance plan.

However, just this past month our surpreme court ruled that many of these preventative screenings no longer have to be included.  This is the sort of thing the big business that supports Republicans wanted the Supreme Court stacked right wing.  There's massive amounts of money spent to get "business friendly" Republicans elected.

And they are elected even though most Americans don't agree with the policies.

This is part of why the American Healthcare system is messed up.

 

Prices are insane. When I was in the ER they did a pregnancy test on me. Billed me 48$. They also did a cat scan I barely remember. Even though the appropriate diagnostic tool for my symptoms was an ultrasound. But the cat scan earns more profit for them.

This happens all the time. Because they can. There's no oversight.  They're not required to tell you costs up front. Costs are not fixed. You can't really shop around in an emergency.

It's insane.

 

As to medical bills. If you can pay them (whether you had insurance or not)...

At first you may be able to do payment plans. But if you can't,  your bills will be sold to debt collectors. So say you owe 10,000$. The hospital doesn't bother with debt collecting.  They sell.this debt to an outside source for say 2000$. The debt collector has nothing else to do but harass you. Calling you, threatening you, sending letters, call your place of work, call your landlord. People are driven to depression and suicide by this harassment.

If they can they will try to garnish money from.your wages or money for retirement.

Meanwhile there's now a mark on your credit report saying you defaulted on 10000$ in debt. It may even be more because of late fees. So your "credit score" goes down. In USA your credit score sets how much loans you can get if any for buying a house or a car or getting credit cards. It can interfere with your ability to open bank accounts if it's too low. Or you may have to pay fees because you don't qualify for better options because you are seen as a financial deadbeat.

Your credit score can be used by potential employers to deny you a job because you are "risky "

Basically the medical debt has now made everything else cost more and may affect your job and promotion options.

 

Bankruptcy is a court process where you pay lawyers thousands of dollars to go before the court and say "I have so much debt, I cant possibly pay it off" and you used to be able to get some or all your debt discharged.

"Funnily" enough a few years back some republican law makers put in laws that say medical debt and student loans can't be gotten rid of in a bankruptcy.

I think nowadays some medical debt can be discharged. But generally you have to prove you have no assets left. No savings, nothing that can be sold to pay the debt.

How does somebody that broke pay thousands of dollars in lawyer fees to do this?

Haha. Lesson one. It's all for profit at every level! Don't forget!

But if you're very rich bankruptcy laws actually help you protect your assets....case in point Trump has declared bankruptcy many times. 

 

Regular people just suffer with ruined credit, losing all their savings and homes and they wait. After 7 years of nonpayment a medical debt will come off your credit score. Then if you never had any other problems during those 7 years you have a fresh slate to try to start again.

 

Please note non-usa readers. Most americans get health insurance through their employer and employers can fire you at any time without cause in most jobs.

So if you get sick and can't work you will get fired and then you will no longer have health insurance.

You can get obamacare when you lose your job but it is much more expensive per month.

(My previous job I had health insurance at150$/month. I currently pay over 450$/mo for an obmamacare plan that covers less that the 150$ employer plan I had before)

 

Sorry it's long. I hope it helps non americans understand a little better.

 

Edited by WatchingTheTireFireBurn
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21 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

The American Healthcare system exists to make a profit.  #1 purpose.

Anything else is socialism and socialism is communism and communism is evil (not actually true, but American "logic")

 

Before "obamacare" if you had any preexisting conditions and needed to change insurance the new insurance would not cover it. Now there's a rule that preexisting conditions must be covered. 

And that some basic preventative medicine like a yearly checkup and screenings like pap smears are included free in every insurance plan.

However, just this past month our surpreme court ruled that many of these preventative screenings no longer have to be included.  This is the sort of thing the big business that supports Republicans wanted the Supreme Court stacked right wing.  There's massive amounts of money spent to get "business friendly" Republicans elected.

And they are elected even though most Americans don't agree with the policies.

This is part of why the American Healthcare system is messed up.

 

Prices are insane. When I was in the ER they did a pregnancy test on me. Billed me 48$. They also did a cat scan I barely remember. Even though the appropriate diagnostic tool for my symptoms was an ultrasound. But the cat scan earns more profit for them.

This happens all the time. Because they can. There's no oversight.  They're not required to tell you costs up front. Costs are not fixed. You can't really shop around in an emergency.

It's insane.

 

As to medical bills. If you can pay them (whether you had insurance or not)...

At first you may be able to do payment plans. But if you can't,  your bills will be sold to debt collectors. So say you owe 10,000$. The hospital doesn't bother with debt collecting.  They sell.this debt to an outside source for say 2000$. The debt collector has nothing else to do but harass you. Calling you, threatening you, sending letters, call your place of work, call your landlord. People are driven to depression and suicide by this harassment.

If they can they will try to garnish money from.your wages or money for retirement.

Meanwhile there's now a mark on your credit report saying you defaulted on 10000$ in debt. It may even be more because of late fees. So your "credit score" goes down. In USA your credit score sets how much loans you can get if any for buying a house or a car or getting credit cards. It can interfere with your ability to open bank accounts if it's too low. Or you may have to pay fees because you don't qualify for better options because you are seen as a financial deadbeat.

Your credit score can be used by potential employers to deny you a job because you are "risky "

Basically the medical debt has now made everything else cost more and may affect your job and promotion options.

 

Bankruptcy is a court process where you pay lawyers thousands of dollars to go before the court and say "I have so much debt, I cant possibly pay it off" and you used to be able to get some or all your debt discharged.

"Funnily" enough a few years back some republican law makers put in laws that say medical debt and student loans can't be gotten rid of in a bankruptcy.

I think nowadays some medical debt can be discharged. But generally you have to prove you have no assets left. No savings, nothing that can be sold to pay the debt.

How does somebody that broke pay thousands of dollars in lawyer fees to do this?

Haha. Lesson one. It's all for profit at every level! Don't forget!

But if you're very rich bankruptcy laws actually help you protect your assets....case in point Trump has declared bankruptcy many times. 

 

Regular people just suffer with ruined credit, losing all their savings and homes and they wait. After 7 years of nonpayment a medical debt will come off your credit score. Then if you never had any other problems during those 7 years you have a fresh slate to try to start again.

 

Please note non-usa readers. Most americans get health insurance through their employer and employers can fire you at any time without cause in most jobs.

So if you get sick and can't work you will get fired and then you will no longer have health insurance.

You can get obamacare when you lose your job but it is much more expensive per month.

(My previous job I had health insurance at150$/month. I currently pay over 450$/mo for an obmamacare plan that covers less that the 150$ employer plan I had before)

 

Sorry it's long. I hope it helps non americans understand a little better.

 

The worst part of one side voting against basic health care is it’s the side who have conspiracy theories so don’t get basic medical care.  Free birthing, non vaccinating, Covid denier, forget medical care, etc believers.  Some are great but law makers who don’t believe in science or medical care should not be able to vote on medical care.  They aren’t there to vote what they believe, but what their constituents believe and while there are many of those who believe the above, I think there are more who don’t. 

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11 minutes ago, KWLand said:

The worst part of one side voting against basic health care is it’s the side who have conspiracy theories so don’t get basic medical care.  Free birthing, non vaccinating, Covid denier, forget medical care, etc believers.  Some are great but law makers who don’t believe in science or medical care should not be able to vote on medical care.  They aren’t there to vote what they believe, but what their constituents believe and while there are many of those who believe the above, I think there are more who don’t. 

I'm cynical at this point that they even care what their conspiracy theorist voters think. They're in for power and there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that there's a lot of money swirling around behind the scenes to buy these people as long as they can rile up enough voters to stay in office.

Majory Taylor Greene for example can't be half as stupid as she claims.

And there's all the stuff that's come out about fox news anchors not believing anything they said abt elections.  There's no consequences there. The money behind that isn't concerned because they didn't seem to lose any followers

This right wing streak is down right scary.

The bates are scary because of it. They vote according to whatever nonsense these people spout off cuz they think  it's furthering their agenda. But there's no way, just no way, these career politicians actually buy into that  stuff. They just know an easily.manipulated and riled up voting block.

It's sad. Very sad.

KWLand -what was your win today? 

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36 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

However, just this past month our surpreme court ruled that many of these preventative screenings no longer have to be included.  This is the sort of thing the big business that supports Republicans wanted the Supreme Court stacked right wing.  There's massive amounts of money spent to get "business friendly" Republicans elected.

A federal judge in Texas ruled that payers don't have to cover preventive services recommended by the US Preventive Services Task Force. Other preventive services such as vaccines, children's wellness screening, women's contraceptives and cancer screenings are still covered. The ruling is expected to be appealed and it may eventually go to the Supreme Court, but it hasn't yet gone to them.

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