Webster4Eva 12: It's Webster5Eva Now!

[freethemall]

On 2/5/2023 at 5:38 PM, AussieKrissy said:

Thanks, that all makes a lot of sense. I get it now. Set in the time,  but skewered bias dramatised incorrect version of it. I understand now thank you. 

It's not that it's an incorrect version of the time, it's that it's a glorified version of it. It highlights the white southern nostalgia for antebellum times before the Civil War came and ruined their wonderful world - that's what many people truly believed for a long time. There was no consideration that for black people it wasn't such a great time.

[Jackie3]

14 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Scarlett’s character reminds me a lot of Becky Sharp. And I know I’m not the only one who saw the similarities. 

?? Scarlett is the adored daughter of a wealthy plantation owner, an established member of her community. Becky Sharp is an impoverished orphan and perpetual outsider.

Thackeray clearly disapproves of Becky Sharp. In contrast, Margaret Mitchell obviously admires Scarlett and admiringly depicts her as brave, resilient and intelligent. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Jackie3

[Jackie3]

14 hours ago, freethemall said:

It's not that it's an incorrect version of the time, it's that it's a glorified version of it. It highlights the white southern nostalgia for antebellum times before the Civil War came and ruined their wonderful world - that's what many people truly believed for a long time. There was no consideration that for black people it wasn't such a great time.

Black people are constantly compared with children in GWTW. They do things like roll their eyes, shuffle, giggle, and they feel secure when whites "tell them what to do." Really. Read the part where Big Sam re-appears after a visit to the North. He needs help and is  so delighted when Scarlett starts giving him instructions.  We're told he's happy because "someone is telling him what to do again." It's sickening.

Mitchell's racism appears in more subtle ways, too.  She never says, "Mammy's face lit up with joy" or "Mammy's hand stroked Scarlett's hair."  It's always "Mammy's black face lit up with joy" or "Mammy's black hand. . . "  It's a way of reminding us of the Black characters' lowly status, because in the South "Black" meant "inferior" to white people.

 

[imokit]

Isn't Rhett just Wet spelled badly?

[CanadianMamam]

Oof. 

So Alyssa had a baby shower to celebrate the long awaited boy. 

As she and the girls departed for the shower, Lexi stated that "Rhett is the best baby ever!" "Why?" "Because he is a boy!" So we know what those girls are hearing. 

Poor Allie was like "what about Maci?"

Also petty, but Alyssa's eyebrows look awful in that video. I couldn't stop staring at them. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by CanadianMamam

[JermajestyDuggar]

I almost wish they somehow got it wrong and Rhett comes out a girl. I’m just so tired of the penis worship. 

[Baxter]

38 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I almost wish they somehow got it wrong and Rhett comes out a girl. I’m just so tired of the penis worship. 

Didn't that happen with one of Chelsea Pomeroy's kids. I thought her fourth, Charlotte, was supposed to be a boy but obviously wasn't 😄

[JermajestyDuggar]

15 minutes ago, Baxter said:

Didn't that happen with one of Chelsea Pomeroy's kids. I thought her fourth, Charlotte, was supposed to be a boy but obviously wasn't 😄

Yes, I think so. Too bad she had a bunch of things monogrammed before she realized the mistake!

[CanadianMamam]

Her caption is so gross, I hate crap like that. Also he is not a man, he is an unborn baby!

[JDuggs]

So switch that around for her last baby. “Maci is a lucky woman to have so many gentlemen already swooning over her.” Would Alyssa had said that? Absolutely not, so it’s just as creepy and inappropriate about a baby boy.

[Nashville92]

I've always thought Alyssa would keep having kids till she got the boy she wanted. I'm sure she'll keep going to try and give him a brother as well 🤷‍♀️

[Keys]

Wow… I know there was a lot of speculation that the golden boy would get special treatment, but this and all the comments already just seem so over the top. 

[Jackie3]

4 hours ago, JDuggs said:

So switch that around for her last baby. “Maci is a lucky woman to have so many gentlemen already swooning over her.” Would Alyssa had said that? Absolutely not, so it’s just as creepy and inappropriate about a baby boy.

No, she'd say, "Maci is a lucky young lady to have so many big brothers to protect her!" 

Or, "Any boy who wants to date Maci will have to get past her four strong, protective big brothers!"

(Because fundies start thinking about dating/courtships/weddings when their kids are infants)

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Jackie3

[SassyPants]

20 hours ago, Nashville92 said:

I've always thought Alyssa would keep having kids till she got the boy she wanted. I'm sure she'll keep going to try and give him a brother as well 🤷‍♀️

I think they’ll have 1 more in an attempt for a brother for Rhett and because John comes from a family with 6 children, and Alyssa has mentioned the 6 in the past. 

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I think they’ll have 1 more in an attempt for a brother for Rhett and because John comes from a family with 6 children, and Alyssa has mentioned the 6 in the past. 

Do people try to match the same number of kids as their parents had? As in, "My parents had 6, so I want 6 too." I don't see John's siblings having 6 (though I don't really follow them)

[GuineaPigCourtship]

That is so disgusting.  Poor Maci, youngest girl before the golden child boy.  You've already been forgotten, kid.

[gobucks]

11 minutes ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

That is so disgusting.  Poor Maci, youngest girl before the golden child boy.  You've already been forgotten, kid.

Allie won't forget her! She said in the video. What about Maci?? Maci is the best baby! Sistermom to the rescue, I guess. Sad. 

[Johannah]

I have a cousin with a son named Rhett born after a couple of girls. With a Southern accent and the vowel sound kind of drawn out in that multi-syllabic way, it often sounds like rat. I have seen her say his name to random strangers and it is often confused for rat. She also does sometimes call him Rhetty after vowing not to (which just sounds exactly like the word ready). 
 

Also, GWTW is definitely complicated. It’s not something I would want my child constantly identified with, but I think I would have a little more tolerance of using the name Scarlett bc she is a strong character who defied some gender stereotypes at the time. But Rhett Butler?? Aside from Clark Gable being dashing (use Clark!), all that comes to mind for me is the rapey bordering on abusive qualities. Which I guess tracks with fundie gender norms. 
 

This same cousin (she’s conservative Christian/fundie lite) also made comments while showing ultrasound photos when pregnant with daughter #1 to the tune of “daddy’s gonna have to hide this one from all her boyfriends!” Yep, the FETUS is inside your body unclothed and with genitalia (shocking), and you’re already shaming and sexualizing her for it. And also bringing in creepy incestuous patriarchal references to her FATHER specifically. 

[BadMurphy]

10 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I think they’ll have 1 more in an attempt for a brother for Rhett and because John comes from a family with 6 children, and Alyssa has mentioned the 6 in the past. 

Yeah even though they claim the heart condition will close up shop you can’t count a fundie out of the baby race until they’re like 50.  

[postscript]

The only way they’re guarantied to stop having babies is if John has the snip.Somehow I don’t see that happening. They’ll have at least one oops. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, postscript said:

The only way they’re guarantied to stop having babies is if John has the snip.Somehow I don’t see that happening. They’ll have at least one oops. 

I agree. They will have at least one more oops. And if it’s a girl…. Poor baby. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

3 hours ago, Johannah said:

 

Also, GWTW is definitely complicated. It’s not something I would want my child constantly identified with, but I think I would have a little more tolerance of using the name Scarlett bc she is a strong character who defied some gender stereotypes at the time. But Rhett Butler?? Aside from Clark Gable being dashing (use Clark!), all that comes to mind for me is the rapey bordering on abusive qualities. Which I guess tracks with fundie gender norms. 
 

 

Yeeeaahhhh....Rhett and the controlling rapey abusiveness is too much. Yucky.

But Clark makes me think of Clark Griswold (national lampoon Xmas vacation)

[Jackie3]

On 2/12/2023 at 5:50 PM, Johannah said:

Also, GWTW is definitely complicated.

It's not complicated, it's racist. Here's a description of a Black character.

Quote

Sam galloped over to the buggy, his eyes rolling with joy and his white teeth flashing, and clutched her outstretched hand with two black hands as big as hams. His watermelon-pink tongue lapped out, his whole body wiggled and his joyful contortions were as ludicrous as the gambolings of a mastiff.

And he loves being obedient, it's a relief to him.

Quote

"Well, here's a quarter. You buy a hat from one of those shanty darkies and meet me here."

"Yas'm." His face glowed with relief at once more having someone to tell him what to do.  

.....

"An done had nuff freedom. Ah wants somebody ter feed me good vittles reg'lar, and tell me whut ter do an' whut not ter do, an' look affer me w'en Ah gits sick.'

Most importantly, he knows his place and is uncomfortable with Northerners who try to treat him like an equal

Quote

"But his wife, she sumpin' else. His wife, she call me 'Mister' fust time she seed me. Yas'm, she do dat an' Ah lak ter drap in mah tracks w'en she do it. De Cunnel, he tell her ter call me 'Sam' an' den she do it. But all dem Yankee folks, fust time dey meet me, dey call me 'Mist' O'Hara.' An' dey ast me ter set down wid dem, lak Ah wuz jes' as good as dey wuz."

A book like this is not complicated. It is racist. The movie was almost as bad.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Jackie3

[backyard sylph]

Rhett is a "good" man in that film only in that he shows concern for others and exhibits some level of personal growth, in context of the story and in comparison to Scarlett's blindered version of same. Otherwise, not a nice person to name someone after in 2023. 

I am hopeful, though, of you all referring to the child as Baby Raw. 

As to the description of the problems with the story, I've always enjoyed thinking that many of the slaves who were loyal to Scarlett thought secretly of her as a sort of tiresome brain-addled pet they were stuck with. If you watch someone grow up, sometimes you have a weird affection for them even though you also might hate them. I expect that happened with some of the slaves later referred to as "loyal." The stories that are the worst treat them as mostly simple-minded, (and the ones that were clearly the most clever were looked on with suspicion by people like Bob Ewell in To Kill a Mockingbird; ) it seems Margaret Mitchell's degree of repentance came from at least somewhat realizing these were not cartoon characters, but actual people with individual hearts and minds and motivations. 

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, backyard sylph said:

The stories that are the worst treat them as mostly simple-minded, (and the ones that were clearly the most clever were looked on with suspicion by people like Bob Ewell in To Kill a Mockingbird; ) 

What Black character do you mean in TKAM? I can't recall one who is depicted as  unusually clever, or whose cleverness is viewed suspiciously by Bob Ewell.

As for GWTW, Blacks ARE treated as simple-minded children, when they obedient slaves. When they are freed, they are treated far worse by the author.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Jackie3