Lawson and Tiffany 8: Lawson Still Doesn't Work

[HereticHick]

5 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

Our first Christmas we were sooooo broke. Our splurge was the tree itself and lights. We made paper snowflakes and put them on the tree as well as an ornament I think you make out of cinnamon? It was so so long ago. We made a red and green paper chain, and propped up a Time Life Christmas album since it had a pretty snow scene. It was lovely. 🥰

Their video would have actually been 100 times more charming if they said "hey, we don't have a ton of money" and they decorated their tree with paper snowflakes & paper chains & candy canes!  Did neither of them never make any Christmas ornaments in Sunday School to put on their tree? Also, wouldn't it be more interesting if they could have shown off specific ornaments-- "Here's an ornament we bought in Greece on our honeymoon,"  "Here's an ornament Tiffany made in Sunday School in 3rd Grade,"  "Here's an ornament from San Diego where we got married"

But this crowd prefers instant gratification and Christmas trees have to have a theme. 🙄

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m looking at our tree right now. Instagram and Pinterest would burn me alive if I posted a pic of it. This tree Does not match in any way shape or form. Many of the ornaments were made in preschool and my kids are not crafters. So they look messy. We have 4 different kinds of lights. And there are just way too many things hung on it. But my kids loved decorating it and it brings back memories every year. So this is how our tree will always be. Not aesthetically pleasing but family pleasing. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by JermajestyDuggar

[AussieKrissy]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m looking at our tree right now. Instagram and Pinterest would burn me alive if I posted a pic of it. This tree Does not match in any way shape or form. Many of the ornaments were made in preschool and my kids are not crafters. So they look messy. We have 4 different kinds of lights. And there are just way too many things hung on it. But my kids loved decorating it and it brings back memories every year. So this is how our tree will always be. Not aesthetically pleasing but family pleasing. 

Sounds wonderful. Post the pic to us. I bet we see all the love and light in it  

[CaptainFunderpants]

4 hours ago, fluffernutter said:

Our first Christmas we were sooooo broke. Our splurge was the tree itself and lights. We made paper snowflakes and put them on the tree as well as an ornament I think you make out of cinnamon? It was so so long ago. We made a red and green paper chain, and propped up a Time Life Christmas album since it had a pretty snow scene. It was lovely. 🥰

Eh, I'm of the opinion you shouldn't judge. Otherwise I might judge your for rushing into marriage to have sex, rather than waiting until you're actually financially ready to begin a household. But again: plenty of my childhood friends did that too and so no judgement.

That said, your first tree sounds lovely.

[CanadianMamam]

22 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Just watched their Christmas video--they are like 2 14 year olds playing house. And I'm old and just don't get this instant gratification of going to 2 stores and buying an entire houseful of Christmas decorations. My Christmas decorations have built up over time and have meaning--and when I was their age I only owned a handful of them.

Our first Christmas I bought a ton of cheap, matching ornaments. All genetic bulbs in two tasteful colours. We had those for the first few years and slowly started adding the personalized ornaments. 

15 years after we moved in with each other, our tree is an ecclectic hodge podge of ornaments (and a total chaotic mess because my kids decorate it). A far cry from the early years, but both had a place. 

[irish_dancing_canadian]

Christmas trees with homemade ornaments/ornaments from over the years are the best. I remember my grandparents having ornaments from the 70's and 80's. Wish I still had them, 

[backyard sylph]

12 hours ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

Eh, I'm of the opinion you shouldn't judge. Otherwise I might judge your for rushing into marriage to have sex, rather than waiting until you're actually financially ready to begin a household. But again: plenty of my childhood friends did that too and so no judgement.

That said, your first tree sounds lovely.

I think this just tripped the memory switch and wasn't at all a judgment. And the other poster commenting seemed more puzzled by it, than anything. 

I tend to take a middle path with things. I might have bought some number of decorations all at once to make the place festive, then gone ahead and added a little each year as my taste evolved or to round things out or something. Well, this is probably actually what I do, anyway, now that I live alone in an apartment and the kids are grown. I don't have a house full of memories for everyone to visit, but I try to strike a balance between warm and familiar and...welcome to the plant jungle, you have all been replaced by foliage. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by backyard sylph
better syntax

[SassyPants]

21 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m looking at our tree right now. Instagram and Pinterest would burn me alive if I posted a pic of it. This tree Does not match in any way shape or form. Many of the ornaments were made in preschool and my kids are not crafters. So they look messy. We have 4 different kinds of lights. And there are just way too many things hung on it. But my kids loved decorating it and it brings back memories every year. So this is how our tree will always be. Not aesthetically pleasing but family pleasing. 

A couple of years ago we bought a fake tree. This was a huge step for us. This year we will be traveling (leaving next week, so well before the actual holiday). I was going to skip the tree, but decided to throw it up early, which we did in Nov. It’s pre-lite, so I was going to leave off the ornaments (OMG, I accidentally hit the P button and it said porn.aments), but during a FaceTime session my granddaughter she called me out on my laziness. So I put on some ornaments, on the front of the tree. Thinking I might take it all down before I go, in case the dogs have a moment when I’m gone. Our youngest pup loves the tree. I’ve had to put up a barrier. It never ends- Merry holidays, everyone.

[JermajestyDuggar]

23 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

A couple of years ago we bought a fake tree. This was a huge step for us. This year we will be traveling (leaving next week, so well before the actual holiday). I was going to skip the tree, but decided to throw it up early, which we did in Nov. It’s pre-lite, so I was going to leave off the ornaments (OMG, I accidentally hit the P button and it said porn.aments), but during a FaceTime session my granddaughter she called me out on my laziness. So I put on some ornaments, on the front of the tree. Thinking I might take it all down before I go, in case the dogs have a moment when I’m gone. Our youngest pup loves the tree. I’ve had to put up a barrier. It never ends- Merry holidays, everyone.

We are very lucky we have a cat that just sits under the tree. He has no interest in climbing it or attacking it for funzies. When we had crazy toddlers, I always put the couch in front of the tree and blocked it. 

[libgirl2]

12 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

We are very lucky we have a cat that just sits under the tree. He has no interest in climbing it or attacking it for funzies. When we had crazy toddlers, I always put the couch in front of the tree and blocked it. 

My cat is 4 years old. His first Christmas,  he climbed up the tree. His second, he knocked it over as he was now a "big" cat. The last two years he hasn't climbed and the tree is upright. What he does like to do is sit under it and on occasion, chew the branches (it is fake) and knock down the occasional ornament (I only put up my plastic ones now). He loves the tree skirt and pulls it loose. WE often find it in the middle of the room. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by libgirl2

[CanadianMamam]

My tree is secured to the wall in 3 different places because my cat loves to scale it and I fold the branches over my ornaments 😂

[fluffernutter]

20 hours ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

Eh, I'm of the opinion you shouldn't judge. Otherwise I might judge your for rushing into marriage to have sex, rather than waiting until you're actually financially ready to begin a household. But again: plenty of my childhood friends did that too and so no judgement.

That said, your first tree sounds lovely.

I wasn't judging anyone, and least that wasn't my intention. My tree and decor now would make you all either cringe or laugh- literally its beige and white. (Hey, if you can't laugh at yourself, right, but damn I love the monochromatic look 🤣). And we didn't rush into marriage, we were together for four years and engaged for two years. And there was plenty of sex had well before the wedding night, not that I feel that the length of time with my spouse or our sex life has anything to do with my old Christmas tree. I think maybe you might have misread my post because I am genuinely confused by yours. 

[HereticHick]

Many members of my family are either of East Asian decent (Chinese, Japanese and/or Korean) and/or have worked or lived in East Asia. Our houses are full of decor, food, and even holiday decorations that reflect that. And it was part of our wedding ceremonies. I continue to find it sad that Tiffany appears to have absolutely nothing in her home (or her life)that reflects her birthplace. And a husband who seems to have zero interest.

Edited December 7, 2022 by HereticHick

[Expectopatronus]

On 12/6/2022 at 3:26 PM, CanadianMamam said:

My tree is secured to the wall in 3 different places because my cat loves to scale it and I fold the branches over my ornaments 😂

Mine climbed the tree until they were about 7. Now, they settle for removing ornaments and tearing up lower branches. Little monsters! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

On 12/7/2022 at 10:12 AM, HereticHick said:

Many members of my family are either of East Asian decent (Chinese, Japanese and/or Korean) and/or have worked or lived in East Asia. Our houses are full of decor, food, and even holiday decorations that reflect that. And it was part of our wedding ceremonies. I continue to find it sad that Tiffany appears to have absolutely nothing in her home (or her life)that reflects her birthplace. And a husband who seems to have zero interest.

This is partly why I’m not a huge fan of international adoption. Many adoptive parents don’t bother to help their children understand and connect with their country of origin. I was reading stats and I’m actually glad to report international adoption is down from its peak in the early 2000s. It really does seem best gif children to stay in their country of origin if possible. I understand that’s not always possible. But it should always be the first preference. 

[EmiSue]

10 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This is partly why I’m not a huge fan of international adoption. Many adoptive parents don’t bother to help their children understand and connect with their country of origin. I was reading stats and I’m actually glad to report international adoption is down from its peak in the early 2000s. It really does seem best gif children to stay in their country of origin if possible. I understand that’s not always possible. But it should always be the first preference. 

I adopted internationally this year. We picked a country from which we had close friends who had exposed us to different aspects of the culture over the years. We've filled our house with books and dolls of that culture, put their major holidays on our calendar, and added staple dishes into our regular meal rotation. All that and I know we aren't enough.

She was available for adoption in her home country for over a year, then for international where ex-pats of her home country would have first pick, then we got her file. Her medical file had some scary-sounding things in it that turned out to be more hassle than anything, and this scared away potential adoptive parents of her birth culture. I hate all this as much as I adore my daughter.

Conservative Christians who see international adoption as a "mission field" and see countries as interchangeable make me see red. Do right by that child or find another way to support orphan care and family preservation. Better yet, do both.

[JermajestyDuggar]

47 minutes ago, EmiSue said:

I adopted internationally this year. We picked a country from which we had close friends who had exposed us to different aspects of the culture over the years. We've filled our house with books and dolls of that culture, put their major holidays on our calendar, and added staple dishes into our regular meal rotation. All that and I know we aren't enough.

She was available for adoption in her home country for over a year, then for international where ex-pats of her home country would have first pick, then we got her file. Her medical file had some scary-sounding things in it that turned out to be more hassle than anything, and this scared away potential adoptive parents of her birth culture. I hate all this as much as I adore my daughter.

Conservative Christians who see international adoption as a "mission field" and see countries as interchangeable make me see red. Do right by that child or find another way to support orphan care and family preservation. Better yet, do both.

I’m glad you actually take her culture and tradition into account. I know there are families like yours. But I can’t stand families that just ignore their child’s culture and tradition. And just pretend they are American and were born there. 

[EmiSue]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m glad you actually take her culture and tradition into account. I know there are families like yours. But I can’t stand families that just ignore their child’s culture and tradition. And just pretend they are American and were born there. 

I'm sure that's what Tiffany's family did. Which hurts everyone in the long run.

[CanadianMamam]

7 minutes ago, EmiSue said:

I'm sure that's what Tiffany's family did. Which hurts everyone in the long run.

Tiffany's mom's speech from the rehearsal dinner made me a little uncomfortable about how she always wanted to be Tiffany's best friend and how she had friends call her out on being too involved. Eric is from the dad's first marriage, so I got the impression the mom wanted a child/daughter and that is why they adopted Tiffany and then she centered her life around Tiffany and vice versa. My impression from that brief look at the dynamic is that her mother would not have been willing to "share Tiffany" in any way or encourage her to connect with her roots and that is really sad. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

33 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

Tiffany's mom's speech from the rehearsal dinner made me a little uncomfortable about how she always wanted to be Tiffany's best friend and how she had friends call her out on being too involved. Eric is from the dad's first marriage, so I got the impression the mom wanted a child/daughter and that is why they adopted Tiffany and then she centered her life around Tiffany and vice versa. My impression from that brief look at the dynamic is that her mother would not have been willing to "share Tiffany" in any way or encourage her to connect with her roots and that is really sad. 

She was likely your typical Hollywood “stage mom.” 

[JDuggs]

If Tiffany thought she could monetize finding her roots, she and Lawson would be on the first plane to China. I’m sure the concept is something they’re saving for the biggest payout. I think Tiffany is personally thrilled with how her life turned out. Her adoption is the biggest part of her Christian story. God saved her from a potentially very sad life and gave her a perfect, loving, wealthy family.

My three kids are in their 20s. All of them had classmates who were adopted internationally. I have several friends who adopted internationally: China, Korea, Russia and Romania. International adoption was very common in this era, 1990s to 2000s, among affluent people. I see all of these young adults now who have loving families and  had good childhoods. If they would have stayed in their birth countries, I don’t think their lives would have been as fortunate. Life isn’t perfect. They had to give up their cultures of origin to live with families who loved them and could provide for them. I never have asked any of the moms or kids how they thought being brought up in different cultures affected them so I only have assumptions.

[JDuggs]

34 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

She was likely your typical Hollywood “stage mom.” 

I don’t see Tiffany’s mom as a typical Hollywood stage mom who pushes her child into a career and living off of the child’s career. The Espensens didn’t need the money and don’t seem that interested in the fame, so I think they were just indulging Tiffany’s passions. I think her mom was probably very overprotective from skeezy Hollywood influences, so she probably never let Tiffany out of her sight. I think many moms who struggled to become a mother, with only one child, especially a daughter, are extra close to their daughter. Tiffany doesn’t seem too negatively affected by it.

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, JDuggs said:

If Tiffany thought she could monetize finding her roots, she and Lawson would be on the first plane to China. I’m sure the concept is something they’re saving for the biggest payout

Tiff may be vain, but I think your statement is very hard. It's not easy to be adopted, there is a trauma that everybody live in a different way (usually the trauma appears when adopted people are adults and understand the whole situation). For an adoption to occur, for a "Christian miracle" to happen, there's a prior major disgrace. Tiff may be content because she was "saved" but she knows her bio family abandoned her and it's not easy to cope with that idea.

But I doubt she will go to China. First of all, it would probably hurt her mom. And second, I doubt she wants to show she comes from a (probably) poor, unchristian environment. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, JDuggs said:

I don’t see Tiffany’s mom as a typical Hollywood stage mom who pushes her child into a career and living off of the child’s career. The Espensens didn’t need the money and don’t seem that interested in the fame, so I think they were just indulging Tiffany’s passions. I think her mom was probably very overprotective from skeezy Hollywood influences, so she probably never let Tiffany out of her sight. I think many moms who struggled to become a mother, with only one child, especially a daughter, are extra close to their daughter. Tiffany doesn’t seem too negatively affected by it.

I don’t think it was the money. I imagine it was the fame and prestige of having a perfect little daughter who is successful in Hollywood without turning into an addict or in jail. If it wasn’t Hollywood, I could easily see her as a pageant mom. 

[Melissa1977]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

But I can’t stand families that just ignore their child’s culture and tradition. And just pretend they are American and were born there. 

I have relatives who changed kids' names, although they were 2 year old and obviously knew their birth names.