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Josh and Anna 55: Settling in at Seagoville


Coconut Flan

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Going back to the discussion of Anna taking the kids to visit. I wonder if she was given a copy of Debbie Pearl's "Created to be His Helpmeet?" At the end of the book she says something along the lines of, "If you find out your husband has sexually abused the children, report him. But then take the children to visit him, so he can see what he is missing." This kind of trash seems exactly  like something they would encourage her to do. 

I was part of a ladies  Bible study/book club years ago. This was one of the books chosen. When I objected to most of what was written, I was asked to leave the group. I was sowing seeds of dissent.

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3 minutes ago, MountainMomma said:

Going back to the discussion of Anna taking the kids to visit. I wonder if she was given a copy of Debbie Pearl's "Created to be His Helpmeet?" At the end of the book she says something along the lines of, "If you find out your husband has sexually abused the children, report him. But then take the children to visit him, so he can see what he is missing." This kind of trash seems exactly  like something they would encourage her to do. 

I was part of a ladies  Bible study/book club years ago. This was one of the books chosen. When I objected to most of what was written, I was asked to leave the group. I was sowing seeds of dissent.

So Debi thinks it is good to cause even more trauma by making kids see their abuser. I hate it that these fundies always put the kids last. It is still all about the husband. 
To show him what he is ‘missing’ you mean his victims? He is missing his abuse victims and Debi wants to make sure he still gets to see them.

This makes me apoplectically angry.  

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18 hours ago, MountainMomma said:

Going back to the discussion of Anna taking the kids to visit. I wonder if she was given a copy of Debbie Pearl's "Created to be His Helpmeet?" At the end of the book she says something along the lines of, "If you find out your husband has sexually abused the children, report him. But then take the children to visit him, so he can see what he is missing." This kind of trash seems exactly  like something they would encourage her to do. 

What is WRONG with them?! 
 

What he’s missing isn’t the family life it’s the ability to have sex with a child. 

Edited by Father Son Holy Goat
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6 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

What is WRONG with them?! 
 

What he’s missing isn’t the family life it’s the ability to have sex with a child. 

The ‘I agree’ reaction is all smiles and thumbs. I do agree with you and this is a more accurate reaction for the situation 

🤬😡🤬🤬🤬🤬😡😡

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I haven’t seen any updates on where Anna and the kids are right now.  Is she still in Texas?  Have there been any sightings in Arkansas?

I know there are those who favored her getting away from the Duggar compound, but for the kids it would be better to stay, I think, and have Anna make the trip to visit Josh a couple times a month with or without a couple of kids.

Do we have anything beyond speculation? 

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Anna is totally going to lose her shit the first time she shows up as an ordinary visitor.

Her experience in prisons is coming in as part of a religious group that doesn't have to wait in line, is escorted to a room where they get to mingle with prisoners who are sitting around in chairs and talking, and in general being treated by both staff and inmates with a certain degree of deference, or at least politeness.

Reality is going to be a big shock. I wonder if she'll even want to go back.

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Anna will have to suck it up and be wanded like the rest of the visitors. 

She'll go back, though, because she, as a Christian woman in a covenant marriage, must support her spouse utterly. She "knows" he's completely innocent and she will stand by him. I think that even if he started spouting the truth about what he did and what he watched and how he enjoyed it, she would still be standing there listening and looking at him with that adoring expression.

What I don't know is: Is she stupid or is she stubborn? Or is it a mix of both?

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1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

Anna will have to suck it up and be wanded like the rest of the visitors. 

She'll go back, though, because she, as a Christian woman in a covenant marriage, must support her spouse utterly. She "knows" he's completely innocent and she will stand by him. I think that even if he started spouting the truth about what he did and what he watched and how he enjoyed it, she would still be standing there listening and looking at him with that adoring expression.

What I don't know is: Is she stupid or is she stubborn? Or is it a mix of both?

She could also be just as bad as he is. While men are vastly more likely to perpetrate sexual crimes, there’s always some women who will help facilitate that and supply the victims.

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47 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

She could also be just as bad as he is. While men are vastly more likely to perpetrate sexual crimes, there’s always some women who will help facilitate that and supply the victims.

Um…can you not?! Anna’s a shitty human but can you not accuse her of heinous crimes?

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1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

She could also be just as bad as he is. While men are vastly more likely to perpetrate sexual crimes, there’s always some women who will help facilitate that and supply the victims.

It’s possible. And I sure hope that’s not the case. 

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2 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

She could also be just as bad as he is. While men are vastly more likely to perpetrate sexual crimes, there’s always some women who will help facilitate that and supply the victims.

That’s some gross speculation. 

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1 hour ago, viii said:

That’s some gross speculation

3 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Um…can you not?! Anna’s a shitty human but can you not accuse her of heinous crimes?

Ummm….ok? She’s vehemently standing by him despite ALL evidence to the contrary. Despite having his crimes against his little sisters spelled out, in court, in extreme detail. Despite multiple offers of help and support. Despite clearly having the financial leverage to not. Despite no one else, in his own family, even proclaiming his innocence. Despite the filth he watched including children her children’s age being abused not just by men, but by adult women. At some point there’s a line between hopeful belief in her spouses innocence, excusing his crimes, and being complicit. 

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25 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

 

Oh FFS! Anna supporting Josh is NOT the same thing as her downloading csam as her husband did. Anna did not download csam. Saying she did negates what Josh did and makes it sound like his actions are her fault. He made the choices he made and is now doing time for it. Anna supporting Josh is a really, really awful decision. It is NOT the same as her actively participating in CSA. 

Edited by Giraffe
csam, not scam
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6 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

She'll go back, though, because she, as a Christian woman in a covenant marriage, must support her spouse utterly.

Josh and Anna did not have a "covenant marriage" because that sort of thing did not exist in Florida when they married. 

https://answers.uslegal.com/marriage/15758/

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On 8/5/2022 at 12:39 PM, GiggleOfGirls said:

The nostalgia stuff was weird for sure. I grew up being allowed to only read books from before 1965 (later amended to be non-adult books from before 1965 after I read The Mill on the Floss by George Eliot) unless I specifically asked permission. 

Okay, I gotta know, what was their issue with The Mill on the Floss? The unchaperoned forest walks and rowboat trip? The passionate arm kissing scene? She never has sex with Stephen Guest and yet is still ostracized just for the appearance of impropriety. Then she has to sacrifice her life for someone else (which could be interpreted as divine punishment for rebelling against her brother's wishes).

I'd think Fundies would be all over that book, even if they were misinterpreting the author's intentions, like they do with The Scarlet Letter. Good thing you didn't get into Tom Jones or Moll Flanders...

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I didnt read... "hey, Anna is totes capable of doing this,"... I read, "hey, it happens. There are women out there like this."

No one was accusing Anna of that. Or at least how I read it.

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3 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Okay, I gotta know, what was their issue with The Mill on the Floss? The unchaperoned forest walks and rowboat trip? The passionate arm kissing scene? She never has sex with Stephen Guest and yet is still ostracized just for the appearance of impropriety. Then she has to sacrifice her life for someone else (which could be interpreted as divine punishment for rebelling against her brother's wishes).

I'd think Fundies would be all over that book, even if they were misinterpreting the author's intentions, like they do with The Scarlet Letter. Good thing you didn't get into Tom Jones or Moll Flanders...

I have no idea, honestly. I was never given an explanation for that one not being okay! It was very weird. 

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6 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

 

 

6 hours ago, Mama Mia said:
6 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

 

Anna is vehemently standing by Josh because of the evidence she chooses to see, and the same reason as the Pecans: Josh acts like a great guy, father and brother-in-law at home. It is inconceivable to Anna he is different than he seems at home.

So despite the other evidence, what she saw and heard in court, she has stubbornly dug in her heels, determined to hang on to what she has (or thinks she has).

This behavior does not make Anna complicit in Josh's crimes. How things look to people inside a situation is not the same view point seen from others outside a situation looking in.

 

6 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

 

 

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On 8/12/2022 at 9:03 PM, patsymae said:

Anna is totally going to lose her shit the first time she shows up as an ordinary visitor.

Her experience in prisons is coming in as part of a religious group that doesn't have to wait in line, is escorted to a room where they get to mingle with prisoners who are sitting around in chairs and talking, and in general being treated by both staff and inmates with a certain degree of deference, or at least politeness.

Reality is going to be a big shock. I wonder if she'll even want to go back.

 

13 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Anna will have to suck it up and be wanded like the rest of the visitors. 

She'll go back, though, because she, as a Christian woman in a covenant marriage, must support her spouse utterly. She "knows" he's completely innocent and she will stand by him. I think that even if he started spouting the truth about what he did and what he watched and how he enjoyed it, she would still be standing there listening and looking at him with that adoring expression.

What I don't know is: Is she stupid or is she stubborn? Or is it a mix of both?

This is when we need the TLC cameras! 

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13 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

 

This is when we need the TLC cameras! 

Duggars Behind Bars: A Very Special Episode

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19 hours ago, viii said:

@Mama Mia your arms must hurt from that reach. 

Not at all. I was a social worker. If you don’t think there are some really, really creepy women out there who are “helping” and enabling their men along in their perversions — well god bless you.

 Her birthday post, on her own birthday, was about how the day was special because it was the anniversary of when a sex pest proposed to her. This isn’t a one off. This isn’t plausible deniability based on a misunderstanding. This isn’t something he grew out of or was treated or prayed out of. It isn’t a “oops, I really thought I was just getting some edge bdsm /barely legal teen porn” . “Oops, I was a little handsy as a teen, but nothing serious, and I got over it” No reasonable person, whatever their cult indoctrination could believe ALL those things to be true. If one of the events happened - sure, maybe you love the guy, believe his story that x y or z was false or exaggerated or accidental or he’s changed….. but come on. She knows. She doesn’t care. 

That doesn’t make Josh’s actions her fault, or her responsibility. 

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I fully disagree with you. You’re basically calling Anna the Karla to Josh’s Paul and I think that’s gross speculation. Anna is uneducated, brainwashed, and a lot of other things but I don’t think she’s an accomplice in Josh’s horrible behaviour. 

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1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

Not at all. I was a social worker. If you don’t think there are some really, really creepy women out there who are “helping” and enabling their men along in their perversions — well god bless you.

 Her birthday post, on her own birthday, was about how the day was special because it was the anniversary of when a sex pest proposed to her. This isn’t a one off. This isn’t plausible deniability based on a misunderstanding. This isn’t something he grew out of or was treated or prayed out of. It isn’t a “oops, I really thought I was just getting some edge bdsm /barely legal teen porn” . “Oops, I was a little handsy as a teen, but nothing serious, and I got over it” No reasonable person, whatever their cult indoctrination could believe ALL those things to be true. If one of the events happened - sure, maybe you love the guy, believe his story that x y or z was false or exaggerated or accidental or he’s changed….. but come on. She knows. She doesn’t care. 

That doesn’t make Josh’s actions her fault, or her responsibility. 

My mother was like that, aware and fully complacent with my dad sexually abusing us. I always wonder if her own child abuse played a role in her behavior. Did she view it as inevitable? Did she not understand what she was seeing because it was normalized in her childhood home? Did she think it was just special daddy/daughter time? I’ll never know because she’s dead (praise God). 
 

If Anna was aware I could see some of the factors at play. Sexual abuse is somewhat normalized in their subculture; I think Jill said at one point child sexual abuse happened in 2/3 homes. These factors may have played a role in Anna not seeing Josh’s behavior or choosing not to see. 
 

Of course, this doesn’t make Josh’s behavior Anna’s fault; Josh is responsible for his own actions. If her actions were to look away or not see what is in front of her I hope she takes responsibility for her actions by getting some therapy and learning to see the signs. I’m not optimistic that she will get therapy though.

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