Josh and Anna 55: Settling in at Seagoville

[Giraffe]

9 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

But if there is a limited amount of visiting moments and Anna would like to come the majority of them, she could be alerted when she wants to visit on a specific moment and there is already another visitor registered. Josh would have some explaining to do.

No he won’t. She’s already convinced herself he’s innocent. All he’d have to do is tell her he’s ministering to someone and she’d pretend all is well. 

[Cam]

1 hour ago, postscript said:

 Open question then if Anna and Jim Bob will force them to go or if the kids will be allowed some distance. 

JB should have no say so in the matter. He and Meech can try to guilt the kids into visiting their felon father in prison, but forcing seems way out of line (cringing at the thought of Meech’s baby voice coercing them to go). But I know this is a fundie-fied situation and some people claim JB would be the head of Anna’s household with Josh imprisoned and would have authority in her household. Will Anna allow it? I don’t know about all that. Talk is of her movin’ in with the Pecans and I could see one of the reasons she might is to get away from JB’s control.

1 hour ago, postscript said:

 Open question then if Anna and Jim Bob will force them to go or if the kids will be allowed some distance. 

JB should have no say so in the matter. He and Meech can try to guilt the kids into visiting their felon father in prison, but forcing seems way out of line (cringing at the thought of Meech’s baby voice coercing them to go). But I know this is a fundie-fied situation and some people claim JB would be the head of Anna’s household with Josh imprisoned and would have authority in her household. Will Anna allow it? I don’t know about all that. Talk is of her movin’ in with the Pecans and I could see one of the reasons she might is to get away from JB’s control.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

13 minutes ago, Cam said:

JB should have no say so in the matter. He and Meech can try to guilt the kids into visiting their felon father in prison, but forcing seems way out of line (cringing at the thought of Meech’s baby voice coercing them to go). But I know this is a fundie-fied situation and some people claim JB would be the head of Anna’s household with Josh imprisoned and would have authority in her household. Will Anna allow it? I don’t know about all that. Talk is of her movin’ in with the Pecans and I could see one of the reasons she might is to get away from JB’s control.

David Waller creeps me out just as much as JB does, although I have far less concrete reason to feel that way with Waller. I just do. 

I think Anna will still defer to Josh with regard to the kids. He's not dead; he can communicate with her through calls, letters and visits. But as for day to day headship deferral, I'm not sure Waller's control would be any better than Jim Bob's. Of course she and Priscilla seem to be very close and that may end up being the deciding factor. The Dallas area means close to Josh and Pris, and the possibility that she ultimately may be able to do better than an awful storage warehouse for a home if she leaves Tontitown. 

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, postscript said:

I would guess that any list of approved visitors would include Anna, Jim Bob, Pecan (acting as Josh’s pastor/spiritual advisor), and at least one of his attorneys. I don’t think Michelle will care to visit, though she might be on an approved calling list.

I would expect there to be multiple, connected prison ministry types on his list, for individual "counseling".  Advantage to him is some company, chit-chat, catching up on the outside world, and chances to convince the unconvinced that he's still a Christian and a good guy.  Advantage to them (or, more accurately, the people they report back to) is keeping tabs on him.

[Cam]

2 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

David Waller creeps me out just as much as JB does, although I have far less concrete reason to feel that way with Waller. I just do. 

I think Anna will still defer to Josh with regard to the kids. He's not dead; he can communicate with her through calls, letters and visits. But as for day to day headship deferral, I'm not sure Waller's control would be any better than Jim Bob's. Of course she and Priscilla seem to be very close and that may end up being the deciding factor. The Dallas area means close to Josh and Pris, and the possibility that she ultimately may be able to do better than an awful storage warehouse for a home if she leaves Tontitown. 

Oh, David is definitely creepy. I’m not in any way claiming he’d be a better alternative headship. But maybe Anna would prefer a person of her generation rather than her father-in-law’s. Between JB and David? Pick your poison, Anna.

I agree with you, though, that Anna will probably defer to Josh. I’m not sure what the relationship between Josh and David is. Josh may not care for David to have much say so in Anna and his kids’ life, territorial and all that, other than to reinforce what Josh wants. It wouldn’t be because Josh loves Anna and the kids, it’d be a thing where he wouldn’t want his power usurped.

I think a scenario where Anna moves in with Priscilla and David, and him as the authority, would feel sorta sister wife-ish; no physical intimacy between him and Anna of course. Still, kinda weird. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

1 minute ago, Cam said:

I think a scenario where Anna moves in with Priscilla and David, and him as the authority, would feel sorta sister wife-ish; no physical intimacy between him and Anna of course. Still, kinda weird. 

Ruh roh! Don't give TLC any ideas now.

[onekidanddone]

3 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

David Waller creeps me out just as much as JB does, although I have far less concrete reason to feel that way with Waller. I just do. 

I think Anna will still defer to Josh with regard to the kids. He's not dead; he can communicate with her through calls, letters and visits. But as for day to day headship deferral, I'm not sure Waller's control would be any better than Jim Bob's. Of course she and Priscilla seem to be very close and that may end up being the deciding factor. The Dallas area means close to Josh and Pris, and the possibility that she ultimately may be able to do better than an awful storage warehouse for a home if she leaves Tontitown. 

Allegedly the fabulous David Waller is allegedly big in IBLP land and probably knew, enabled and covered shit up. Allegedly. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by onekidanddone

[AussieKrissy]

14 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

But if there is a limited amount of visiting moments and Anna would like to come the majority of them, she could be alerted when she wants to visit on a specific moment and there is already another visitor registered. Josh would have some explaining to do.

I can attest this happens 

Partner rings to book a visit and hell breaks loose when it is not available 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

4 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I can attest this happens 

Partner rings to book a visit and hell breaks loose when it is not available 

If this happens with Anna I will be so sad TLC cameras aren’t there to catch that display of good Christian values. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

6 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

Allegedly the fabulous David Waller is allegedly big in IBLP land and probably knew, enabled and covered shit up. Allegedly. 

Well that wouldn't be surprising. He wrote a letter after the trial supporting Josh. For me this is a Texas-sized red flag. David Waller and Anna are the only members of their generation who wrote letters of support.

I hope you can see it, but here's a link to various letters from family members including David Waller. David's letter is as bad as anyone else's. He claims Josh to be a man of integrity and that the judge "needs to think of his wife and his seven children." And that Josh should "be brought back home to provide  not just financial, but spiritual guidance of his family." 

[Mama Mia]

4 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Well that wouldn't be surprising. He wrote a letter after the trial supporting Josh. For me this is a Texas-sized red flag. David Waller and Anna are the only members of their generation who wrote letters of support.

I hope you can see it, but here's a link to various letters from family members including David Waller. David's letter is as bad as anyone else's. He claims Josh to be a man of integrity and that the judge "needs to think of his wife and his seven children." And that Josh should "be brought back home to provide  not just financial, but spiritual guidance of his family." 

I couldn’t take those letters too seriously. They seemed so predictable and formula driven.
Pick the most upstanding people you know, Pastor brother- in- law, Prison ministry  Father-in-law - awesome! Some people in the community, and of course wife and mom. State who you are and how you know Josh, give specific examples of his good character traits and personal interaction that demonstrates he’s a good person. State why the court should give him a short sentence. The end. 
The most striking thing was the most genuinely passionate and personal came from his whack a doodle neighbors! And of course the deafening silence from his siblings. 

 

[Cam]

5 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Well that wouldn't be surprising. He wrote a letter after the trial supporting Josh. For me this is a Texas-sized red flag. David Waller and Anna are the only members of their generation who wrote letters of support.

I hope you can see it, but here's a link to various letters from family members including David Waller. David's letter is as bad as anyone else's. He claims Josh to be a man of integrity and that the judge "needs to think of his wife and his seven children." And that Josh should "be brought back home to provide  not just financial, but spiritual guidance of his family." 

David Waller’s letter of support is effed up in oh so many ways. Totally disgusting. Yeah, the judge definitely has to think of the children. But as a means of protecting them from Josh. Dumbo David really could not or chose not to grasp such a simple concept. Sickening

[manda b]

I still can't grasp why anyone would defend Josh. What kind of example is she setting for her daughters?

[libgirl2]

36 minutes ago, Cam said:

David Waller’s letter of support is effed up in oh so many ways. Totally disgusting. Yeah, the judge definitely has to think of the children. But as a means of protecting them from Josh. Dumbo David really could not or chose not to grasp such a simple concept. Sickening

Especially as he has children! 

[Bastet]

I have provided a link to an article in the New York Times about Vancouver BC providing fentanyl for addicts. It’s a new program, so there is no saying whether it works. (Some of the letters to the editor confuse it with earlier harm reduction programs.) It is controversial in Vancouver, and the writer takes pains to present both sides. One flaw is that it confounds the program that allows an addict to take drugs with him—and the drugs turning up on the street—with the current program that does not. 
  If providing drugs to addicts alarms you,  have no fear, there is no way this is happening here. For starters, you’d need government funded medical care. We won’t have that here! No we won’t! Not like those heathen to the north!  
  The letters to the editor are fascinating. The best letters against the program argue that it will produce more addicts, a real concern for sure and the only one that gives me pause. But an depressing number of writers just don’t want to help “those” people, “the dregs of the earth,” apparently even if doing so costs less than the current war on drugs. 😔

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/26/health/fentanyl-vancouver-drugs.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuonUktbfqYhkT1UZBSbVUNEjsh3Bi_XJ3LU6l3u7MiGTQjFf0ekPRoSa5kjWI6p_Yt95lxKqeOh8Cp59Dvpj0r0YeEV3VwijppbDkZ5Zfyk8-dr2Uzs_0deQBu81tDbkMDX8dbguneDk7knWPDS7S7WfhSN6XHttqZFgc1Gg2XYalOySQqMuhI4Ijbp2DYt6RDwAeCCPo_Ltbh5-M9mMZRzWgRIkD6AbAXqA2I7BtM9TNVlaGlnET3hg4Gcj6No6O9gfOKf3Kh9Ia9NyjoqOPt161QSzNj8egKTW&referringSource=articleShare

[Father Son Holy Goat]

20 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Well that wouldn't be surprising. He wrote a letter after the trial supporting Josh. For me this is a Texas-sized red flag. David Waller and Anna are the only members of their generation who wrote letters of support.

I hope you can see it, but here's a link to various letters from family members including David Waller. David's letter is as bad as anyone else's. He claims Josh to be a man of integrity and that the judge "needs to think of his wife and his seven children." And that Josh should "be brought back home to provide  not just financial, but spiritual guidance of his family." 

That is the first time I’ve read those letters. If what David says is true and Josh’s kids are crying at night, wishing for Daddy for Christmas, praying for a light sentence my heart breaks for them. I truly believe Josh’s kids are safer without him there and I hate how much upheaval their dad going to prison will force on them.

 

I hope watching children being raped and tortured was worth all this for him. 

[nokidsmom]

On 7/27/2022 at 7:15 AM, Cam said:

David Waller’s letter of support is effed up in oh so many ways. Totally disgusting. Yeah, the judge definitely has to think of the children. But as a means of protecting them from Josh. Dumbo David really could not or chose not to grasp such a simple concept. Sickening

Honestly I would expect something like this to come from Pecan.   IMHO the letter reads very much like his recounting of the Pecan Heist in terms of coming across rather clueless / arrogant about the situation, what got Joshley into it, making a lot of God-talk plus a bunch of (irrelevant IMHO) stories making Joshley sound like such a great guy like it ought to make a difference.  

Have no doubt that the M kids miss their Dad and certainly it's fine to sympathize with that (including Pecan) but the fact still remains is that they are not safe around him.  He is a risk due to the nature of his crimes and it's unfortunate that both Anna and Pecan seem pretty oblivious to that.  

 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

Now that he’s landed in a prison with a sex offender program, what kind of treatment can Josh expect to get? 

[marmalade]

25 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Now that he’s landed in a prison with a sex offender program, what kind of treatment can Josh expect to get? 

Nothing for the time being. I've read that offenders don't get treatment until they are closer to their release date. That makes sense when you think about it. They want the treatment to hopefully stick in the real world.

[EmCatlyn]

On 7/27/2022 at 9:54 PM, Father Son Holy Goat said:

That is the first time I’ve read those letters. If what David says is true and Josh’s kids are crying at night, wishing for Daddy for Christmas, praying for a light sentence my heart breaks for them. I truly believe Josh’s kids are safer without him there and I hate how much upheaval their dad going to prison will force on them.

I don’t believe the kids were often “crying at night” about Daddy but I do believe they will pray that Daddy comes back for Christmas, especially if directed by their mom to pray.  We need to consider that Anna is probably emotionally abusive to the extent that she has trapped her children in this false reality where Daddy is innocent and unfairly imprisoned.  And if they are crying it is just as likely to be because they pick up Anna’s moods.

I don’t know how attached the children are to Josh, but they have a large extended family and Josh wasn’t around 24/7 so they probably weren’t emotionally dependent on his presence.  So I can believe one or two kids cried on occasion, but it’s unlikely it was a habit.

I agree that these kids are being hurt by this whole thing. 

[anjulibai]

18 hours ago, marmalade said:

Nothing for the time being. I've read that offenders don't get treatment until they are closer to their release date. That makes sense when you think about it. They want the treatment to hopefully stick in the real world.

That doesn't seem like it would be effective long term. Treatment for such issues should be an on going process. People like Josh need to get therapy the entire time they are in prison. 

[patsymae]

On 7/27/2022 at 8:51 AM, libgirl2 said:

Especially as he has children! 

Lawyers or people who work with the justice system weigh in here (I'm neither), but my understanding is that for the most part, unless there is something really compelling (a mental illness, he cried all night that he was so, so sorry he did this...) the content of these "great guy" letters doesn't get much attention. A lack of them might (not one person has a good thing to say about this guy, or in this case, not one of his sisters/victims had a good thing to say about this guy), but no judge is going to get all dewy eyed because somebody's mother or family member says he is a greatuy. And they see criminals who have children every day; not going to get a pass because of that, if anything, one more reason person should have known better.

I do agree TFDW, like JBoob, Meech, Pa Keller and all their ilk, are clueless. And the part about Smuggar's wife and children needing his spiritual guidance just takes it over the top.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

15 hours ago, patsymae said:

 

I do agree TFDW, like JBoob, Meech, Pa Keller and all their ilk, are clueless. And the part about Smuggar's wife and children needing his spiritual guidance just takes it over the top.

I give the judge props for not rolling his eyes while reading them. 
 

TFDW?

[FiveAcres]

10 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I give the judge props for not rolling his eyes while reading them. 
 

TFDW?

How do you know he didn't?

[Guanabana]

TFDW = The Fabulous David Waller