Jinjer 58: Going for the DMIN

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I wonder if the Josh situation was discussed.

[JermajestyDuggar]

20 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I wonder if the Josh situation was discussed.

Doubt it. I imagine Michelle never wants to talk about it. So they probably never do. 

[Jinder Roles]

Just a reminder that Jeremy signed a letter co-signing John MacArthur's horrible beliefs around social justice and civil rights a few years ago. 

IIRC Ben also supported this letter and interviewed/recommended a co-author of said letter. 

The letter was called "State on Social Justice" by the Gospel Coalition in 2018, signed by thousands of pastors. 

Ugh, I hate these people so much. 

 

[Mama Mia]

Jeremy recorded a very long, very condemning,  message about Josh on their YouTube channel. Jinger shared it in her stories. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

It’s weird to watch a piece of crap condemning the actions of a worse piece of crap. Like when Zoo condemns Mike Pearl. I always think to myself, don’t get too high up there on your horse before taking a big long look in the mirror. 

[AussieKrissy]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

Jeremy recorded a very long, very condemning,  message about Josh on their YouTube channel. Jinger shared it in her stories. 

anyone want to take one for the team and do a recap please 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

This is the best recap I can do and the blue color is for my thoughts/opinions.

The video seems to be called "Three Truths' and it includes links to Rachel Denhollander's statement. I forget who Rachel Denhollander is, but according to wikipedia:

Quote

Rachael Joy Denhollander (née Moxon; born December 8, 1984) is an American lawyer and former gymnast. She was the first woman to publicly accuse Larry Nassar, the former Michigan State University and USA Gymnastics doctor, of sexual assault.[1] Denhollander is 2018 Glamour Woman of the Year and was included in Time magazine's 100 Most Influential People of 2018.[2] On Wednesday, December 15, Rachael Denhollander accepted the 2021 Abraham Kuyper Prize for Excellence in Reformed Theology and Public Life.[3]

So she's a gymnast, survivor, and Christian.

He's starting off strong. He's says he wants to address what happened with his brother-in-law and he's chosing to do so after the sentencing. He mentions there are many victims and that this is painful for a lot of people, even he says 'they rejoice that justice has been done" and are glad we "have a justice system that seeks to protect the vulnerable and hurting." 

It's hard for people to process that a "Christian", especially a "high-profile Christian' could do this. "The higher the platform, the harder the fall" (Keep that in mind, Jeremy). "The response of many will be challenge the integrity of Jesus himself." (No, I didn't blame Jesus for Josh.) People will think less of Jesus as Saviour, because of Josh's sins and Christian hypocrisy. (Hypocrisy comes in many forms. I see the blatant materialism of many clergy as hypocritical.) Christians will worry Josh makes Jesus look bad, because Josh was representing Jesus. "False teachers" and "False believers" exist.

Jimmy Swaggart_(link) was living a double live. (Swaggart was involved with prostitutes.) "The higher the platform, the harder the fall." He quotes his pastor, John MacArthur, with a sermon MacArthur preached in the '90s on the fall of Swaggart.  "The far-reaching consquences.... are frightening.... for the credibility of the church." It's interesting to note that MacArthur is evangelical/Calvinist and Swaggart was Assemblies of God(Pentacostal). Still quoting MacArthur's sermon; MacArthur says that after Swaggart fell he knew the next week people in his (MacArthur's) church were questioning his (MacArthur's) legitimacy. I think during COVID MacArthur showed his true colors when he refused to hold socially distanced services.

Jeremy: The wolf in sheep's clothing (the sinner pretending to be Christian) is more dangerous than the outright opponent (unbeliever). Josh has proven to be a hypocrite. He paraphrases Judge Brooks as saying to Josh [during sentencing] "who you are in private is who are really are. The integrity of person shows when no one is looking. "

Things to be made crystal clear: 

1. "God is a God of Justice. Genuine Christians must defend the poor, the weak, the vulnerable, etc. Why? True Christianity defends victims. Jesus sat with the abused and opposed abusers. Read Matthew 23. ... Jesus had no time for abusive leaders who preyed on the vulnerable. God is Justice. It's the essence of who he is. True religion is to care for widow and orphan. To be silent or defend the guilty is anti-God."

Quote

He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just,
Both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord. Proverbs 17:115

"I think that in case (Josh) like that everyone must get behind this and everyone can get behind this. This is not a hard case. The evidence is overwhelming."

"But here's something more controversial. Justice finds it ultimate resolution in the cross of Jesus Christ. We want justice in this case, but we hide from justice in ourselves. God's judgement is across the boards. Josh will have to face God/Jesus and account for his actions. Jeremy is afraid for Josh. Josh will have to answer to God, but so will every other person." 

"People love Jesus's social good, feeding the poor, ministering to the lonely, etc. , but people do not want to be reminded of their own sin. The reason Jesus came was to save the sinners. People are afraid of being exposed. Jesus was loved for his social good, but the people killed him because they didn't want to be reminded of their sins." 

More Jesus dying for our sins. "Jesus takes the place of sinful people. Even the most wicked sinner can be saved. Josh Duggar can be saved. So can you and so can I." 

2. "Josh can be forgiven, but that in no way erases the demand for his crimes to be punished. Forgiveness never means that temporal consequences for sin. " Truly repentant people embrace consequences for their sins. (They admit they made a mistake and deserve consequences.) Truly repentant will ask to be punished as it reflects God's righteousness. You can be punished on earth and gain eternal salvation. 

"If a man like Josh was truly repentant, it would be obvious." He brings up Larry Nassar and Rachel Denhollander. He reads Denhollander's statement to Larry Nassar.  Denhollander's statement to Nassar: Trigger Warning Sex Abuse. Here's the part Jeremy read: TRIGGER WARNING

Spoiler

You spoke of praying for forgiveness. But Larry, if you have read the Bible you carry, you know forgiveness does not come from doing good things, as if good deeds can erase what you have done. It comes from repentance which requires facing and acknowledging the truth about what you have done in all of its utter depravity and horror without mitigation, without excuse, without acting as if good deeds can erase what you have seen this courtroom today.

If the Bible you carry says it is better for a stone to be thrown around your neck and you throw into a lake than for you to make even one child stumble. And you have damaged hundreds.

The Bible you speak carries a final judgment where all of God’s wrath and eternal terror is poured out on men like you. Should you ever reach the point of truly facing what you have done, the guilt will be crushing. And that is what makes the gospel of Christ so sweet. Because it extends grace and hope and mercy where none should be found. And it will be there for you.

I pray you experience the soul crushing weight of guilt so you may someday experience true repentance and true forgiveness from God, which you need far more than forgiveness from me – though I extend that to you as well.

He then gets back to Josh. True repentance doesn't include "asking for temporal leniency (less time in prison)... reputation damage control, or trying to get off the hook." "I pray that Josh would experience this repentance, but though I fear it has yet to be seen."  He's talking about the book of Jonah, chapter 3 (link). 

"You must turn from your sin, not run toward it." Josh should accept the court's decision. As should Anna, JB, and Michelle.

3. Jesus's reputation must be protected. Jesus Christ is a "kind man" , "gracious savior" and "ultimate judge of people." We need to talk about Jesus. Jesus didn't make Josh sin and doesn't protect abusive hypocrites. Jesus offers salvation to everyone, even Josh. It is sad to see people equating Christianity with this situation and Josh Duggar doesn't represent Jesus. Jesus is too good to be "lost in this situation."

I think it's a strong statement. I don't agree with all of it. I think a lot of atheists and non-Christians are able to acknowledges their mistakes, fu*k-ups, and problems, sometimes better than Christians. What this situation bad is that too many clergy and religious people have problems with containing their own sin. Plenty of people besides Josh have represented Jesus and done bad things. I also remember Jeremy's signing MacArthur's petition about social justice and how those experiencing inequality should basically STFU. I wouldn't say Jeremy or MacArthur particularly stands for the vulnerable.

That said I appreciate his strong stand on his brother-in-law. I think he has some good things to say about the case. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Bluebirdbluebell

[Cam]

Bluebird, thank you for that written recap! I could never bring myself to listen to even one minute of Jeremy speaking, so your summary is appreciated.

I honestly only know the bare minimum about Jeremy and Jinger. Mostly I find them uninteresting. But since he’s speaking out against Josh, I was curious what he said. So with my limited knowledge perspective, it just feels to me like the elders where Jeremy goes to school/attends church told him that to get to the next level of being a pastor, he needed to emphatically spell out his views about Josh’s sins. Maybe the church even had members saying, “We need clarification from Josh.”  Maybe Josh submits this sermon-like thing for a grade in one of his classes. 

[G33kywife]

It’s unfortunate but not surprising that he holds MacArthur in such high regard. This is a man who enabled abusers over and over again, even to the point of excommunicating domestic violence victims. The hypocrisy of calling out your BIL for his sin while being employed by a man like MacArthur. It’s despicable. 

[livinginthelight]

@Bluebirdbluebell Thank you for the recap.

I'm glad he's making the point that Josh needs to repent rather than keep denying his sin. But boy oh boy, even in the recap Jeremy comes off as an arrogant prick completely in love with the sound of his own pontificating.

[Mama Mia]

7 hours ago, Cam said:

Bluebird, thank you for that written recap! I could never bring myself to listen to even one minute of Jeremy speaking, so your summary is appreciated.

I honestly only know the bare minimum about Jeremy and Jinger. Mostly I find them uninteresting. But since he’s speaking out against Josh, I was curious what he said. So with my limited knowledge perspective, it just feels to me like the elders where Jeremy goes to school/attends church told him that to get to the next level of being a pastor, he needed to emphatically spell out his views about Josh’s sins. Maybe the church even had members saying, “We need clarification from Josh.”  Maybe Josh submits this sermon-like thing for a grade in one of his classes. 

I don’t think he’s speaking out at the insistence of his church, Jeremy and Jinger have spoken in much the same way before. This is just much longer and more detailed. And being a video instead of a social media post - you can feel more of the emotion. Which makes sense - they did a very general condemnation /pray for the family when Josh was arrested, a more specific one saying how his actions went against God when he was convicted - and went all out in a looooonnnnggg speech following sentencing- when all the legalities and possibilities were settled. 

Jeremy is incredibly pompous, and I would cry having to listen to him talk and explain all the things, all the time - but he’s married to a seemingly very emotionally fragile woman that he loves — and it seems a great deal of that fragility and trauma is due to the actions of her scrum bag brother. He seems understandably pissed.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Mama Mia

[Cam]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

I don’t think he’s speaking out at the insistence of his church, Jeremy and Jinger have spoken in much the same way before. This is just much longer and more detailed. And being a video instead of a social media post - you can feel more of the emotion. Which makes sense - they did a very general condemnation /pray for the family when Josh was arrested, a more specific one saying how his actions went against God when he was convicted - and went all out in a looooonnnnggg speech following sentencing- when all the legalities and possibilities were settled. 

Jeremy is incredibly pompous, and I would cry having to listen to him talk and explain all the things, all the time - but he’s married to a seemingly very emotionally fragile woman that he loves — and it seems a great deal of that fragility and trauma is due to the actions of her scrum bag brother. He seems understandably pissed.

 

 

Perhaps this was not done at the insistence of the church, but The Vuolos have already made their opinion be known on Josh. That’s why this longer, more detailed speech feels opportunistic. Like he was asked to submit a video to show how well he can pontificate certain points of the doctrine, either to be considered for a next level move or to pass a theology class. Like he got guidelines on a sheet that said, “must be x number of minutes long. Must include scripture from old and new testament. Candidate will show strong ability to represent and defend the religious concepts of this church. Ability to draw comparisons and conclusions using one or more recent current events on subject matter a plus….”

Edited June 23, 2022 by Cam

[neuroticcat]

Thank you for the transcript. I think it’s a really hopeful sign that the Vuolo’s have been listening to Rachael Denhollander at all. She’s a lawyer and survivor advocate who has been involved in working for the SBC coverups to be exposed and has a lot to say about Trauma Informed Care. I hope Jinger is also reading more from her, especially her book “What Is A Girl Worth?”

Also, I vastly preferred their first statement that wasn’t filled with handwringing over Jesus’ reputation. The fundie approach that says it’s their job to make Jesus look good is so arrogant. 

That being said, Jeremy is still at the Master’s Seminary and GCC and quoting J Mac, the man who publicly shamed from the pulpit a woman who refused to return to her abusive pedophile husband and who advocates for slavery  

 

I think it’s wild how in this clip he seems in denial that tons of people have rejected the institutions of marriage/parenting b/c of the abuses in his crap teaching. Also it’s revealing that those are the parallel examples he pulls, since in his hyper patriarchal teaching, women and children are required to stay under a kind of “benevolent master” who knows what’s best for those poor people. 💩💩💩

[neuroticcat]

Also I highly doubt the church is pressuring him to speak out. They are center for nouthetic counseling and probably think Anna is right in to support Josh. 
 

But they may have pressured him to use it as an opportunity for evangelism which he seems to be attempting to do 

[Cam]

I read Rachael Denhollander’s book (excellent) and there is a Netflix documentary about the case, “Athlete A”, highly recommended viewing. Rachael and others speak out in the film.

[Jinder Roles]

6 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

Thank you for the transcript. I think it’s a really hopeful sign that the Vuolo’s have been listening to Rachael Denhollander at all. She’s a lawyer and survivor advocate who has been involved in working for the SBC coverups to be exposed and has a lot to say about Trauma Informed Care. I hope Jinger is also reading more from her, especially her book “What Is A Girl Worth?”

Also, I vastly preferred their first statement that wasn’t filled with handwringing over Jesus’ reputation. The fundie approach that says it’s their job to make Jesus look good is so arrogant. 

That being said, Jeremy is still at the Master’s Seminary and GCC and quoting J Mac, the man who publicly shamed from the pulpit a woman who refused to return to her abusive pedophile husband and who advocates for slavery  

 

I think it’s wild how in this clip he seems in denial that tons of people have rejected the institutions of marriage/parenting b/c of the abuses in his crap teaching. Also it’s revealing that those are the parallel examples he pulls, since in his hyper patriarchal teaching, women and children are required to stay under a kind of “benevolent master” who knows what’s best for those poor people. 💩💩💩

 

Holy shit, his comments are worse than I thought. Imagine the privilege you must have to re-write slavery as not abusive/beneficial to so you can make some twisted metaphor about being enslaved to God. 

As a person who's ancestors were slaves, this is enraging. It also makes zero sense as slavery is abuse. It's not a legitimate human relationship because it requires one person to have no power or rights. All slave masters abused their slaves, because that's just how it works. A "benevolent" master is still a master

I will be making a personal request to radical Jesus in the afterlife to beat John MacArthur's ass. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

16 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

Jeremy is incredibly pompous, and I would cry having to listen to him talk and explain all the things, all the time - but he’s married to a seemingly very emotionally fragile woman that he loves — and it seems a great deal of that fragility and trauma is due to the actions of her scrum bag brother. He seems understandably pissed.

 

 

Jinger does seem quite fragile. 

[neuroticcat]

And as someone in the Twitter comments pointed out. The white theobros romanticizing chattel slavery’s benevolent masters and theorizing about the possibility of the “good” of slavery always imagine themselves as the “masters”…never the enslaved. 

[shesinsane]

On 6/24/2022 at 2:25 AM, neuroticcat said:

And as someone in the Twitter comments pointed out. The white theobros romanticizing chattel slavery’s benevolent masters and theorizing about the possibility of the “good” of slavery always imagine themselves as the “masters”…never the enslaved. 

Maybe that's how "Justice" Thomas can be such an Originalist when it comes to the Constitution? He doesn't see himself as one of the enslaved; he knows there's always been free people of color in the US. No doubt Thomas thinks he would have been one of those prosperous freemen, paying off the right whites to stay out of trouble and living good life (in his part of town). 

[patsymae]

7 minutes ago, shesinsane said:

Maybe that's how "Justice" Thomas can be such an Originalist when it comes to the Constitution? He doesn't see himself as one of the enslaved; he knows there's always been free people of color in the US. No doubt Thomas thinks he would have been one of those prosperous freemen, paying off the right whites to stay out of trouble and living good life (in his part of town). 

But he wouldn't have been able to marry Ginni. And he left Loving vs. Virginia out of the cases to reconsider.

[Idlewild]

Jinger is promoting a newsletter she and Jer are producing. There doesn’t seem to be much interest apart from the die hard humpers desperate to see their kids faces.

Their book is coming out soon I think so it is probably promotion for that, any other paid deals they’ve managed to snag and a bit of Jeremy’s ‘wisdom’ thrown in.

[Ms. Brightside]

3 hours ago, Idlewild said:

Jinger is promoting a newsletter she and Jer are producing. There doesn’t seem to be much interest apart from the die hard humpers desperate to see their kids faces.

Their book is coming out soon I think so it is probably promotion for that, any other paid deals they’ve managed to snag and a bit of Jeremy’s ‘wisdom’ thrown in.

They also announced something today via Jinger’s Instagram that she just called a “new project” that will premiere tomorrow… they didn’t say what it is, but I’m guessing lifestyle vlogs? There were clips of them shopping, Jeremy holding a fish on a boat… good old-fashioned reality-style fame-whoring. 

[AussieKrissy]

Ducking twat waffles the both of them. Go away and disappear. That is all. Carry on. 

[Idlewild]

I suppose that explains why Jinger was miked up while she was shopping a few weeks ago. For all they supposedly hate intrusion into their lives, they seem incapable of considering any other lifestyle than that of z list celebrities. 

[SorenaJ]

Wow. They both need to get a real job. I’ve been to LA. Everywhere is hiring. Literally just go and get a job. 
 

When will they realize that they are nobodies?