Jinjer 58: Going for the DMIN

[Cults-r-us]

6 hours ago, SassyPants said:

You have to give to the Vuolos though…necessity is the mother of all inventions. They need money so cooking show, kids book, this latest pile of drivel, Youtube..Work and work, those cars bills never stop coming

Tell me again, why can't Jeremy get a real job?

[BlondeAgent007]

I'm honestly pretty excited to read it.  If nothing else, she is definitely cutting all ties with her mother and father, and that is a glaring public statement that JB is certainly going to hate, no matter how much of the really bad stuff she leaves out.

And I think it's pretty cool she used the board name in the title.  It would be cooler if the whole book wasn't gonna be all about how awesome Jeremy and Ben are, but that's at least a nod in our direction.  WE all at least could see she was trapped long ago.  

And like, my husband is my best friend too, and helped me navigate through a lot of shit.  I can say right now I will never write a whole book about him and how he changed my life.  But she's definitely living better now than before.  I do worry about her weight, but with how much chaos she's had in the last couple years I could see how someone with her history of eating disorders might fall back.  Hoping I'm wrong about that, she looks a lot more genuinely happy than she did last year.

Edited October 19, 2022 by BlondeAgent007

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Cults-r-us said:

Tell me again, why can't Jeremy get a real job?

Schooling seems to occupy his time. My son recently graduated with his Master’s degree, all while working FT at his paying job. Granted, my son only has a GF and a dog, but he’s never been unemployed since he reached the age of consent- 

 

[Idlewild]

Well let’s wait and see…

Their first book was about how wonderful they are- I have a feeling this will be more of the same and the promo is hooking on one paragraph. It’s probably more about theological differences- I’m not expecting a wholesale rejection of her parents beliefs although it would be great if she actually stood up about purity culture, patriarchal dogma, exploitation of children and stunting of education. 
However I think it will be more ‘Jeremy believes this so now I do too’. 
I’d love to be proved wrong. 

[Idlewild]

It’s a shrewd business move to publish this. The lifestyle the Vuolos aspire to is expensive- Jeremy seems reluctant to settle down with a regular job and Jinger isn’t qualified to do anything and doesn’t seem eager to gain any qualifications or skills. So that leaves social media influencer - she has the advantage of a huge following due to the show.
The original attraction was the Duggar brand- they know that is tainted forever so they need to dissociate themselves from it. Rather than going all out on the family they can dress it up as ‘theological’ and thus hopefully keep their fundie leg humper base, while attracting more mainstream Christian followers. Neither of them are particularly good in front of the camera, so they need a certain amount of curiosity to get people to watch. Nobody cares about Jinger’s ‘salt is the only seasoning you need’ cookery or Jeremy wearing a bow tie- they (like us) are hoping they will dish the dirt on JB & M.

I expect Derick is a bit annoyed, but his new professional role has probably made him grow up a lot. He will now know that ugly publicity does nobody any good.

[Jinder Roles]

Based on the summary and observing the Vuolos, this book represents the shift a part of American evangelism has gone through. Many fundies have shed some of their more overt beliefs and shifted into something more refined.  I agree with posters who said Jinger swapped Gothard for McArthur.

McArthur's brand is way more polished, subtle and sophisticated but just as dangerous. It may even be more dangerous because now people who tout dangerous beliefs are blending in. Anyone doing research can see that McArthur is a Christian Nationalist, maybe not in the same way as Southern Baptists or MAGA enthusiasts but it's still present. 

Calvinists tend to harshly critique the legalism of ILBP and other more overt cultish stuff (think strict rules and monitoring). Yet they still have their own system of compliance and shame and the Vuolos are definitely part of that inner circle. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

Well let’s wait and see…

Their first book was about how wonderful they are- I have a feeling this will be more of the same and the promo is hooking on one paragraph. It’s probably more about theological differences- I’m not expecting a wholesale rejection of her parents beliefs although it would be great if she actually stood up about purity culture, patriarchal dogma, exploitation of children and stunting of education. 
However I think it will be more ‘Jeremy believes this so now I do too’. 
I’d love to be proved wrong. 

Purity culture is a feature of all mainstream conservative Christianity. Patriarchal dogma is all extremely common. They're still conservative Christians so I can't see them repudiating any of that. They might speak out about education, but that's about it.

[Cam]

Even if Jinger’s the first to write a book about moving away somewhat from IBLP (to another form of oppressive religion), there’s still plenty of interest for other Duggar siblings to write about moving on and moving away from JB’s controlling religious headship. Maybe Jinger’s book will inspire younger members in her family to question the status quo. Maybe the Dillards will write their own book when they think the time is right. I feel that they’re intentionally more low key currently due to Derick getting established in his law career.

Altho we’ve seen photos of Michelle visiting Jinger in California, I don’t think JB has been seen with Jinger for quite some time. After the book’s published (or even now since it’s description is written) JB might give her the same treatment he gives Jill. Like persona non grata. 

One thing I’m curious about is are the Vuolo’s done having children? Will they stop at two?

Edited October 19, 2022 by Cam

[Cults-r-us]

5 hours ago, Idlewild said:

Well let’s wait and see…

Their first book was about how wonderful they are- I have a feeling this will be more of the same and the promo is hooking on one paragraph. It’s probably more about theological differences- I’m not expecting a wholesale rejection of her parents beliefs although it would be great if she actually stood up about purity culture, patriarchal dogma, exploitation of children and stunting of education. 
However I think it will be more ‘Jeremy believes this so now I do too’. 
I’d love to be proved wrong. 

Katie Joy from Without a Crystal Ball (so take this with a grain of salt) says the split between JB's (on one side) and Jeremy, Ben, Josh and the very vocal Anna (on the other) is about Calvinism, over the latter group believing Reformed Baptist theology.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Even if Jinger isn’t in a cult, she’s still being “led” by a man. She was being led JB for her childhood and now she’s being led by Jeremy. He lets her wear pants, dance, and drink. But does she ever make choices without Jeremy’s input? Does she have her own opinions? Or are they just Jeremy’s opinions she’s adopted as her own? 

[gobucks]

43 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Even if Jinger isn’t in a cult, she’s still being “led” by a man. She was being led JB for her childhood and now she’s being led by Jeremy. He lets her wear pants, dance, and drink. But does she ever make choices without Jeremy’s input? Does she have her own opinions? Or are they just Jeremy’s opinions she’s adopted as her own? 

Have we seen them drink alcohol? I don't remember but I don't pay as much attention to them as some of the others. 

[treehugger]

Oh, Calvanism is 100% a cult.  Especially the MacArthur version.  In fact, it can't be anything else because the crux of their interpretation of scripture necessitates a cult response.  Between the idea of only the elect being able to be saved (God made everyone else solely for the fun of frying them in hell afterwards, and if you aren't elect, aka, God's chosen people, you are fucked and there's nothing you can do about it because you don't get any choice at all in Reformed theology), and the fact that misogyny is baked into their theology in such a way that women will NEVER have any say in anything, Jinger is absolutely not free, and has in fact traded in one cult for a far worse one.  I grew up Calvinist and have nothing good to say about any of it.  There may be different flavours of Baptist with women having more or less influence depending on how fundie they are, but there are not different flavours of Calvanism.  By its very ideology, Calvanism is more extreme, because it has such a rigid framework.  

[Travelfan]

Calvinism is what eventually got me completely out of Christianity. I had doubted whether the whole Bible/God thing was really real since I was about 8. That was completely terrifying because I had always been taught that going to heaven was based purely on whether you fully believed/trusted in Jesus. Since I knew I doubted his existence I knew I was going to hell unless I could find a way to fully believe without doubt. I stayed this way for about 30 years, always fearing death, always being very devout in Christianity (thinking if I was very good and devout and prayed God would remove my bit of doubt, and I would go to heaven).  I never dared tell anyone of my secret doubt.  I married a pastor and was active in church and Bible study and raised my kids doing the same, I definitely didn’t want them to doubt and go to hell!  Then I encountered Calvinism. My husband likes MacArthur and his teachings and I came to realize the reason I could never get rid of the doubt and fully believe was because I wasn’t elect and God had chosen to blind my eyes.  This took the terror to a whole new level. There was ZERO chance I could ever believe, hell was a 100% certainty!  After about a month of living in that dark place I started to think a new thought…I had never been able to fully believe because a little piece of my brain said what if it’s not true…I started to think if it’s really not true then there is no hell!  Well after 30 years of living in fear of hell I finally had a way out. I clung to that idea that it’s really not true and over the past few years that has come to be my firm belief.  Looking back now I can’t believe I ever believed any of it, it all seems so far fetched. I fully understand that for many people faith gives them hope and comfort so I in no way try to dissuade others from their faith. But for me I found my hope, comfort and peace in atheism. Ironically I consider myself “free” now as well and got a tattoo that’s states that. I can see why she would title her book as she has, when you come out of something you felt trapped in you do indeed feel free.  She has found freedom in the same thing I felt trapped in…

[HarryPotterFan]

58 minutes ago, treehugger said:

aka, God's chosen people, 

Jokes on them, the Jewish people have been the chosen people for thousands of years! Chosen for what, exactly? Most of us would probably say “suffering.” But others of us would disagree

Edited October 19, 2022 by HarryPotterFan

[treehugger]

@HarryPotterFan right?!?  
so many mental gymnastics involved in Calvinism.  

[HereticHick]

I feel more and more certain that Jeremy and Jinger are going to send the kids to the MacArthur school, if they can possibly afford it, instead of homeschool. Jeremy wants them to be a MacArthurism poster family.

Jinger may volunteer at the school, and spend a LOT of time online shilling products to pay for the tuition.

[SassyPants]

I’m beginning to believe that Jinger is be every bit as used for her labor now as vs when she was living with JB. 

Do we know of Jeremy works a paying job at all? If not, why is that OK per their religious beliefs?

[Jinder Roles]

Calvinism, especially the inner circle of GCC, is a high-demand group (aka a cult) 

 

Also, the summary reads like some ghostwriter researched ILBP and put a Christian spin on it. Very savvy move considering a documentary about Gothard is rumoured to be dropping soon. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I will add that John Piper and John Macarthur are not just patriarchal but rabidly and fervently misogynistic. Witness John Macarthur's telling Beth Moore to "go home" when she voiced her concerns. Plus John Piper expounding on why women who are being abused should stay in abusive marriages. Something to the effect of "if she's only being hit, she should stay and endure being slapped for a time." 

[noseybutt]

This book is an immediate no for me.

It makes me angry that the publishing industry scoops up the vapid celebrities and ignores thoughtful authors.

I am a zero point Calvinist—-which is to say, not one at all. And I agree with the others upthread who argue MacArthur is not simply Conservative Christian. The neo Reformed/Calvinist framework is hardcore and there is no way to do it without being all in. You can have a glass of wine in your hand (maybe) but you still have to be all in intellectually with a system that is deeply hierarchical and hateful.

 

 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I will add that John Piper and John Macarthur are not just patriarchal but rabidly and fervently misogynistic. Witness John Macarthur's telling Beth Moore to "go home" when she voiced her concerns. Plus John Piper expounding on why women who are being abused should stay in abusive marriages. Something to the effect of "if she's only being hit, she should stay and endure being slapped for a time." 

So how does that dovetail with JINGER being the more apparent working Vuolo? Or that the Vuolos only have an audience because of the DUGGAR (Jinger’s) name?

[noseybutt]

22 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

So how does that dovetail with JINGER being the more apparent working Vuolo? Or that the Vuolos only have an audience because of the DUGGAR (Jinger’s) name?

Because celebrity status trumps all.

This book doesn’t change the misogynistic beliefs. Or the Christian nationalism. Or their belief that God has chosen them and not most of the world. And that they are, essentially, worthy of God’s blessings in a way others are not.

[Coconut Flan]

MacArthur's church has zero problem with women working from what I can tell.  They have a lot of working women and I wouldn't be surprised that quite a few make more than their husbands do. 

[noseybutt]

6 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

MacArthur's church has zero problem with women working from what I can tell.  They have a lot of working women and I wouldn't be surprised that quite a few make more than their husbands do. 

In SoCal, married women working is the norm because reality. But that’s not the teaching.

From the MacArthur commentary quoted on GYT.org:

 

[Encourage the young women] to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be dishonored. (Titus 2:4–5)

Married young women are to be workers at home. One of the hardest things for many contemporary wives to do is be satisfied with being a homemaker. Part of the reason is that modern appliances and other conveniences greatly simplify and reduce housework, and time that is not used for something constructive inevitably produces boredom, dissatisfaction, and often increased temptations.

But the greatest pressure on young wives today is the saturation of our culture by the ungodly precepts of radical feminists, who believe that wives being homebound is an egregious form of bondage by males, from which all women need to be freed. They unequivocally insist that women should be as free as men to work outside the home at whatever job and to whatever extent they want.

Statistics make clear that extramarital affairs increase exponentially with women who work outside the home, simply because of greatly increased exposure to temptation. In addition to that, they often find themselves under the authority of a man other than their husband (cf. Eph. 5:22, especially the word “own”) and in an environment that is antithetical to Christian standards of morality and sexual roles.

It is tragic that many young mothers are forced to hold outside jobs because their husbands have died, been imprisoned, or have left them and pay no child support, or because they have never been married and their own families are unable, or unwilling, to help. It is also tragic that many churches and Christian friends forsake their obligation to help young women who find themselves in such straits. And when the mother is away from home, younger children most often are cared for away from home. They need to be at home as much as possible and not be deprived of their mother’s companionship and instruction.

Women who have no children or whose children are grown obviously have fewer obligations in the home and therefore much more time available, and the point is not so much that a woman’s place is in the home as that her responsibility is for the home. She may have a reasonable outside job or choose to work in the church or to minister in a Christian organization, a hospital, a school, or many other ways. But the home is a wife’s special domain and always should be her highest priority. That is where she is able to offer the most encouragement and support to her husband and is the best place for extending hospitality to Christian friends, to unbelieving neighbors, and to visiting missionaries or other Christian workers.

In regard to being workers at home, young Christian wives today must take special care to be sensible, as they are admonished earlier in this verse. In consultation with their husbands, they must use good judgment in deciding how much time can justifiably and wisely be spent in activities outside the home, whether at a paying job or in some form of service. When they have a genuine desire to obey and honor the Lord in all things and to conscientiously seek guidance from His Word and in prayer, they can be assured that He will provide the necessary wisdom and resolution.

The true female victims today are not women who are willingly bound by love to the Lord, to their husbands, and to their children. The true victims are rather those women who have been deceived by unbiblical and satanic feminist ideas about being liberated from God and from the home.

The home is where a wife can provide the best expressions of love for her husband. It is where she teaches and guides and sets a godly example for her children. It is where she is protected from abusive and immoral relationships with other men and where, especially in our day, she still has greater protection from worldly influences—despite the many lurid TV programs, magazines, and other ungodly intrusions. The home is where she has special opportunity to show hospitality and devote herself to other good works. The home is where she can find authentic and satisfying fulfillment, as a Christian and as a woman.

 

 

 

[SassyPants]

So this religious, misogynistic organization thinks it OK for only the female member of the partnership to hold a family supporting job? Again, are red flags not being raised in everyone’s mind?