Lori Alexander 81: It's All the Fault of Women

[Loveday]

9 minutes ago, HoneyBunny said:

Can anyone makes any sense of this, or is she really as stupid as she appears to be?

What in the world?? I'm sitting here trying to figure out the correlation here, and I've got nothing! 😳

[Hane]

Oh, FFS. I am far from rich—I’m on Social Security and a teeny pension—and I have solar panels. I got mine through a program that installed them free of charge and charges me far less over the course of a year than I was paying for “normal” electricity. And, when I signed up, my church got $1100. (The program let enrollees contribute to the non-profit of their choice, and my teeny church is hanging on for dear life.)

[feministxtian]

There's a HUGE push to install solar all over the place. I think there's a program here in CO that installs them for nothing or next to nothing. Jeez, you can buy an RV w/solar panels! The cost has come down considerably in the last 5 years or so. I don't know all the finances behind it, but I do know my daughter had solar installed on her house and what she saves on her electric bill more than pays the cost of the panels. I'd prefer to see more local, or grid independent solar installations. I know the batteries for energy storage are also coming down in price and size. Panels, batteries and inverters are about all that's needed. 

I read something about a community that didn't suffer from a power outage after one of the hurricanes in FL because the community is 100% on solar. I'm really interested in finding a tiny house community that's heavy on renewable energy to retire in. I really want to stay out west though...

 

[Hane]

@feministxtian, right? When I flew to Spokane back in ‘19, I was amazed at all the huge solar arrays I saw throughout the countryside as the plane came in for a landing. The huge convention center where i stayed (UU General Assembly) was 100% solar powered. 

[feministxtian]

14 hours ago, Hane said:

@feministxtian, right? When I flew to Spokane back in ‘19, I was amazed at all the huge solar arrays I saw throughout the countryside as the plane came in for a landing. The huge convention center where i stayed (UU General Assembly) was 100% solar powered. 

I'm trying to remember the whole story, but if I remember right, the entire Las Vegas strip is powered by solar energy. There's a place out in the desert that's essentially a solar generating plant. The way it works is so cool. They pipe water through the cells to heat it up and the resulting steam powers generators too. All you have to do is pump high pressure water through the tubing (high pressure so it doesn't flash into steam), then when it gets to the generating turbines, let it flash into steam to turn the turbines at a high velocity (take the pressure off and the velocity increases due to expansion). Voila! Cheap ass energy! Then the water cools off, gets sent back through to get heated again and the cycle repeats. So, it's a double generating system. The solar cells generate energy and so does the water/steam. 

God, it's too easy to develop renewable energy. Cheap too. The amount of $ spent on maintenance is way low, not enough moving parts to require regular PM. The initial outlay can be pricey for like industrial set ups but after that, not much $$. 

[Hane]

Heck, I live in freaking New England, where sunny days can be few and far between, but the utilities companies here are doing a lot with solar power. Over ten years ago, my former company built a solar array that powered 100% of a nearby town’s municipal buildings. And both high schools in my city now have AC, thanks to solar. (I would have loved that during our occasional sweltering days in early fall and late spring.)

[feministxtian]

Solar panels don't need the sun beating down on them to work. It has something to do with the photons hitting the panels to excite something else that ends up generating energy. So, even on sorta cloudy days, as long as the photons are hitting the panels, the energy will be generated.

**yes, I'm nerding out on this. Let me know if I'm nerding out too hard for "normal" people. 

[Alisamer]

I'm taking that post from Lori to mean that one of her kids is considering buying a hybrid car or that Ken is looking at a Tesla. And possibly a neighbor is installing solar panels on their roof.

[Pammy]

Lori doesn't understand that "the left" can care about more than one issue, because there's more than one brain cell to go around, when you've got a whole half of the political spectrum to work with.

She also doesn't understand that taking action to not kill the planet and/or actions to 'limit climate change from now on' benefits everyone -- especially the poor. Because, like most bad things, as the environment goes bad the poor are always disproportionately impacted by all kinds of bad outcomes from that process.

So, yes, "the left" can propose environmental solutions, even if they are more costly than poor people would be likely to purchase for themselves, while still "claiming" to care about the poor. Those things don't actually contradict each other at all.

[Hane]

@feministxtian, yes—I had a momentary brain blip there! The company that installed my solar said that the panels would work with as much as four inches of snow on them.

[feministxtian]

@Hane Yup! I mean, they work on Mars! 

1 hour ago, Pammy said:

So, yes, "the left" can propose environmental solutions, even if they are more costly than poor people would be likely to purchase for themselves, while still "claiming" to care about the poor. Those things don't actually contradict each other at all.

The only one of the solutions that bothers me is the screaming desire to replace gas powered vehicles with electric vehicles. I'm not currently jazzed about battery life or replacement costs. I had a "discussion" with my husband's goofy-ass aunt a few years ago about that very topic. I had a big SUV at the time and she wanted to know why I didn't replace it with a hybrid. Well, the SUV got decent gas mileage and it was paid off. I informed her that economically it didn't make sense for me to get rid of it. I used less in gas than another car payment would have been. She was a little shocked when I said that. Then again, she was shocked that a "loser" like me with an AAS degree made more money than she did with a PhD in English. 

[Pammy]

2 hours ago, feministxtian said:

@Hane Yup! I mean, they work on Mars! 

The only one of the solutions that bothers me is the screaming desire to replace gas powered vehicles with electric vehicles. I'm not currently jazzed about battery life or replacement costs. I had a "discussion" with my husband's goofy-ass aunt a few years ago about that very topic. I had a big SUV at the time and she wanted to know why I didn't replace it with a hybrid. Well, the SUV got decent gas mileage and it was paid off. I informed her that economically it didn't make sense for me to get rid of it. I used less in gas than another car payment would have been. She was a little shocked when I said that. Then again, she was shocked that a "loser" like me with an AAS degree made more money than she did with a PhD in English. 

It's true, and not just economically.

Almost any existing object is going to be more environmentally friendly overall to keep using, than to discard it during its usable years. If you replace it with something newly manufactured, even if the new thing is a better thing, a greener thing, it's still a new thing. It still had to be sourced and built and delivered. Your existing thing already went through those steps, and those are *not* environmentally friendly steps!

Most people should keep driving what they have, unless what they have is truly awful in terms of emissions. *When* it's time to change vehicles, that's the time to think about moving to an electric or hybrid if they suit your needs. And it might be worth taking an economic hit to do that. But it's not worth discarding a perfectly good vehicle and requiring a newer greener one to be made for you when you didn't need it in the first place.

The same is true with furnaces, or kitchen ware, or household plastics, or clothes, or whatever. Sure, if you *need* more containers, consider buying glass if that's your cup of tea. Don't actually throw out a cupboard of Tupperware in order to make the transition. So much of "green" marketing is just basic consumption marketing. If your needs are met, your goods are fine. Consume less by making due with what you bought before things were this green. Boom: you're an environmentalist.

(Also, be a frugal family from decades ago: put your leftovers in margarine containers and wash your ziplocks for reuse. Just because something is supposed to be 'single use' doesn't mean you can't keep using it!)

[feministxtian]

I drive cars for at least 10 years. I currently drive a 2017 Ford Explorer that I bought in 2018. I reuse darn near everything. Lifelong brokeness makes you thrifty as hell!

[Seahorse Wrangler]

A couple of months ago I had to sign off on the local electrical company cutting down some trees on my property. One of the areas was a bit of a wild-life area, not mown but with native plants only. While i was with the foreman, we came across a seating area that the late Mr. Wrangler had set up. There were several solar path-lights, still working after 5 years of Canadian seasons. I knew the area was there, but I had never bothered to visit it because I thought I had removed everything.

43 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I drive cars for at least 10 years. I currently drive a 2017 Ford Explorer that I bought in 2018. I reuse darn near everything. Lifelong brokeness makes you thrifty as hell!

My current car is a 2015 Dodge Caravan because I am still in the season of college/university/moving. My next car is going to be a two seater Smart car.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Lori's leghumper fangirls are all in a pearl clutching swivet about celebrating Christmas/ any church holiday = Christmas is pagan. Jesus never told us to celebrate his birth. Birthdays are vain and worldly.  Mom reading the Bible to her 5 and 7 year old children says they are asking about all the Christmas paganism in the Bible (things that never happened  for $500).  Decorating a tree is witchcraft.  Easter is pagan. Jesus never told us to celebrate his death and resurrection.   All church holidays are pagan.  We should celebrate all the OT festivals. The Law is a commandment for everyone forever.  Etc. Etc. Etc.

I just cannot with these people.

[Hane]

My car is a 2014 Prius, and is the first brand-new car I ever bought on my own. It has about 98,000 miles on it and I’m meticulous about its maintenance. I’m planning on having some cosmetic body work done on it next year to fix all the dings I’ve inflicted on it, and then keep driving it until it collapses in a heap.

[Loveday]

13 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Lori's leghumper fangirls are all in a pearl clutching swivet about celebrating Christmas/ any church holiday = Christmas is pagan. Jesus never told us to celebrate his birth. Birthdays are vain and worldly.  Mom reading the Bible to her 5 and 7 year old children says they are asking about all the Christmas paganism in the Bible (things that never happened  for $500).  Decorating a tree is witchcraft.  Easter is pagan. Jesus never told us to celebrate his death and resurrection.   All church holidays are pagan.  We should celebrate all the OT festivals. The Law is a commandment for everyone forever.  Etc. Etc. Etc.

I just cannot with these people.

I've always thought Christians were supposed to be joyful. These people are the most joyless, depressing, gloomy Christians since the Puritans. 😕 

 

[Alisamer]

44 minutes ago, Loveday said:

I've always thought Christians were supposed to be joyful. These people are the most joyless, depressing, gloomy Christians since the Puritans. 😕 

 

They are, aren't they? Cromwell would be their sort of guy, I think.

It's true, pretty much all the Christian holidays were, early on, conveniently located atop existing non-Christian festivals. Many people say they were co-opting pagan festivals to encourage the populace to convert to Christianity. Some say it was all just a coincidence. Some say the celebrations were still essentially pagan and Christians shouldn't celebrate them. 

I say whatever. The more the merrier. This year I've been acknowledging the solstices and such along with the rest of the holidays. Culture evolves and blends and becomes a fusion. I like the pagan style festivals and the secularized Christian holidays like Christmas, along with whatever else is celebratable. Birthday? Sure! Independence Day? Not a thing I really want to be associated with considering the political climate but sure I'll take the day off work and watch some fireworks. Full moon? I'll look up there and smile. New moon? A good reminder to take a look at goals and set some intentions for the next couple weeks. 

Pagan it may be, but it makes sense to me to acknowledge the longest night of the year and celebrate the days getting longer again. And with all the other holidays around that time, it can be a good 2-week-long or so celebration with Christmas decorations, parties and gifts, feasts with family, carols and Christmas movies, a candle lit for Yule, intentions and resolutions for the new year and all that combined. 

[HoneyBunny]

19 hours ago, Pammy said:

Almost any existing object is going to be more environmentally friendly overall to keep using, than to discard it during its usable years. If you replace it with something newly manufactured, even if the new thing is a better thing, a greener thing, it's still a new thing. It still had to be sourced and built and delivered. Your existing thing already went through those steps, and those are *not* environmentally friendly steps!

THANK YOU for saying this out loud!!  This has been my mantra most of my life. I have not been able to watch HGTV for years. One too many “let’s gut this totally functional kitchen and replace the countertops with recycled glass to show we’re environmentally savvy” shows.

Part of my insistence on making do is related to my innate frugality (when you grow up poor, it’s tough to move past that mindset) but most of it is for environmental reasons. Sure, I’d love to replace my 35 year old range and countertops. It humors me when I see neighbors with homes the same age as mine ripping out their third and fourth kitchen renovations for the current latest thing. But when one pointed out that we needed to replace our fully functional top loader washer with a front loader that uses less water and is environmentally friendlier, I couldn’t help by remind her that we do four loads of laundry a week in our house, and my husband hooked up a way to re-use even that little bit of grey water in the drip system in our flower beds. 
 

My 2000 Chevy Blazer looks like new (because I grew up learning that things had to last forever).  It gets crap gas mileage but it has only 78000 miles, so I really don’t care. Don’t get me started by telling me I need to replace it was an EV. 

[Loveday]

@HoneyBunny, the kitchen in my old house (which we're still clearing out and getting ready to sell probably as a fixer upper since we're too old now to do the work ourselves and don't have the money to hire someone else) is about 40 years old and still has all its original appliances, fake butcher-block counters, cabinetry, and flooring. The flooring really does need replaced, but the counters are still almost new looking, and the cabinets only need a good coat of paint because the insides of them are also like new. And yeah, a new stove. But like you, I grew up with the mindset that you take care of what you have because replacement costs money. So my husband and I, in all the 35 years we lived in the house, just took care of stuff rather than replace it, aside from painting walls and getting new carpet. We SHOULD have replaced a few things, looking back (omg, would I have loved a new kitchen floor! LOL), but we were fine with it all the way it was, unlike those HGTV shows you mentioned. I swear, every time I see a couple walk into a really nice kitchen or bathroom and instantly say, 'Oh, this is so dated, it's got to go!' I want to throw something at the screen!

 

Oh, and as for cars? We've been known to hang on to vehicles for YEARS. We've got a 25 year old F-150 pickup, and my daughter is still driving an '09 Honda. And our sedan is almost eight years old, which is like brand new compared to the other cars we've had over the years which lasted fifteen, twenty, or even more years. When we buy a car, we make a seemingly life-long commitment. We'll be driving that sedan (an Altima) in 2035, I'm pretty sure! 😆

Edited December 1, 2022 by Loveday
added thought

[feministxtian]

27 minutes ago, HoneyBunny said:

THANK YOU for saying this out loud!!  This has been my mantra most of my life. I have not been able to watch HGTV for years. One too many “let’s gut this totally functional kitchen and replace the countertops with recycled glass to show we’re environmentally savvy” shows.

I think if you grow up on the poorer side, you learn to reuse things. I really hate that my apartment complex doesn't recycle. When I lived in PHX and Vegas, recycling was HUGE! There was the green trash bin and a blue recycle bin. We filled the recycle bin much faster than the trash bin. I tend to use the same coffee cup over and over (I rinse it out between cups) and the same water bottle. I also make things last! I'm too broke to replace a lot of things. 

[Maggie Mae]

I hold onto cars as long as I can because I hate the process of buying new vehicles. That being said, I've had more than one boss request that I upgrade my vehicle. Since I'm in a car centric town, and occasionally driving people to and from meetings and the airport was a thing, I did so. I kind of want to replace my current 2014 crossover suv but there's nothing wrong with it so I won't. But when it comes time I hope there is a hybrid or affordable electric in a similar size available. 

Solar panels are coming down in price because 95% of them are manufactured in China and while I'm fully on board with solar power and moving away from fossil fuels, the human rights, safety, and industrial violations over there makes me hesitant. Between the lack of regulation and safety in their mining and the stories coming out of factories, I wish more people would think twice about what they are buying. I'm just as guilty, I have a smartphone and solar panels. And I'm able to see the damage that having a rental property does to the community, but you know, I'd rather push for the US to subsidize solar panel manufacturing here, where we have better working conditions for miners and factory linemen and a whole lot of people who could work in manufacturing but have been pushed into low wage service jobs. 

[Alisamer]

I just re-did a whole house, LOL, except parts of the kitchen.

But that involved putting in new floor (desperately needed, the existing carpet was nasty and the laminate was pulling apart everywhere) and painting all the walls. And replacing two leaky toilets. I'd love to update the kitchen, but that's going to mean "painting the existing cabinets" with a possible side of "replacing the 50-year-old formica counters". The existing appliances work, so I kept them. The car I'm driving is a 1996 Camry. It's borrowed, and came from my grandmother's estate originally, but it runs and I can't afford a car payment right now, so...

I'm just not big on replacing things that work perfectly well unless there's a really good reason for it. 

I keep hoping to get a hybrid when I am able to get a new car. We will see. I'm just far enough from work that I'm not sure a cheap used all-electric car would work for me, but I'd love to have something I only had to gas up once a month. 

[louisa05]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:33 PM, Pammy said:

(Also, be a frugal family from decades ago: put your leftovers in margarine containers and wash your ziplocks for reuse. Just because something is supposed to be 'single use' doesn't mean you can't keep using it!)

We use reusable silicone bags instead of buying and washing disposable ones. The disposable ones will eventually wear out. Not expensive. Dishwasher safe. I'm giving them as Christmas gifts this year, too. 

[Destiny]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

We use reusable silicone bags instead of buying and washing disposable ones. The disposable ones will eventually wear out. Not expensive. Dishwasher safe. I'm giving them as Christmas gifts this year, too. 

Can you link me to the ones you are using? I want to go down this path and had a hard time finding ones that didn't have to be washed in cold water which is gross.