Andy Stanley: Saving America Not Church's Mission

[47of74]

Evangelical preacher Andy Stanley thinks it's not the job of the church to save America

Quote

Winning souls for Christ. Taking back America for God. Standing in the Gap.

Anyone who has spent time among white evangelical Christians has heard some of those phrases. The evangelical subculture is filled with militaristic rhetoric that depicts conservative Christians trying to "take back America" for God from the secular forces of evil.

But what happens when one of the nation's most famous evangelical leaders declares that "saving America is not the mission of the church?" When he says that loving people takes precedence over loving country? Or when he says that Christianity is not about winning, but "losing on purpose, with a purpose?"

Andy Stanley, pastor of one of the nation's largest megachurches, is about to find out. This is part of the message he shares in his provocative new book, "Not In It To Win It: Why Choosing Sides Sidelines the Church." In the book, Stanley recounts what happened to him and his church when they confronted three recent challenges: the pandemic, the George Floyd protests and the 2020 presidential election.

And of course he's now facing this.

[MamaJunebug]

Thank you! Had not heard of this and will be watching! 

[Howl]

Endlich!  (Finally) Someone standing up to white nationalist Christofascism. The extent and nature of the blowback will precisely identify the fault line.  It will also (hopefully) be a useful tool for people who aren't Christofascists and want to get back on track with regular white Christianity, whatever that is these days.  

I watched part of a video of Greg Locke ranting screaming, literally screaming on a stage a few days ago about hating Democrats.  It was truly horrifying and I could not watch 'til the end.  The guy is nuts, yet he had obvious support from people in the audience. 

 

[Cults-r-us]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

Endlich!  (Finally) Someone standing up to white nationalist Christofascism. The extent and nature of the blowback will precisely identify the fault line.  It will also (hopefully) be a useful tool for people who aren't Christofascists and want to get back on track with regular white Christianity, whatever that is these days.  

I watched part of a video of Greg Locke ranting screaming, literally screaming on a stage a few days ago about hating Democrats.  It was truly horrifying and I could not watch 'til the end.  The guy is nuts, yet he had obvious support from people in the audience. 

 

Churches lose their tax-empt status if someone reports political speech to the IRS.

[47of74]

33 minutes ago, Cults-r-us said:

Churches lose their tax-empt status if someone reports political speech to the IRS.

Supposedly his church gave up tax-exempt status. 

Quote

But in a live stream uploaded on Facebook on Sunday, Locke claimed he had renounced his tax-exempt status and said he still held the same views about Democrats.

He added: "Guess what I did this week. I got an attorney and I dissolved our stinking 501c3 in this church because the Government ain't gonna tell me what I can and what I can't say. So, IRS we don't need your stupid tax-exempt status. You can put it in a bag and burn it in your front yard for all we care. I renounced 501c3 communism in this church."

 

[Howl]

Well, this will be interesting.  Are they now a business?  Or what?  CPA husband thinks they will incorporate as an LLC.  What has PP Anderson done? 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Howl

[47of74]

19 hours ago, Howl said:

Well, this will be interesting.  Are they now a business?  Or what?  CPA husband thinks they will incorporate as an LLC.  What has PP Anderson done? 

Most fundie churches are a lot closer to businesses than religious or even charitable institutions.  I guess that's what Greg will be doing.

[Antipatriarch]

On 6/5/2022 at 7:52 AM, Cults-r-us said:

Churches lose their tax-empt status if someone reports political speech to the IRS.

Well... that's at least supposed to happen under the Johnson Amendment. But from what I can see, these days it hardly ever does happen. The letter of the tax code hasn't changed but its enforcement has.

During the Trump era (and with him egging them on) a lot of churches outright endorsed him from the pulpit, some of them daring the IRS to come after them. I sure didn't see any of those high-profile churches getting in trouble, did you?

[47of74]

2 hours ago, Antipatriarch said:

Well... that's at least supposed to happen under the Johnson Amendment. But from what I can see, these days it hardly ever does happen. The letter of the tax code hasn't changed but its enforcement has.

During the Trump era (and with him egging them on) a lot of churches outright endorsed him from the pulpit, some of them daring the IRS to come after them. I sure didn't see any of those high-profile churches getting in trouble, did you?

Along with really stepping up enforcement of the Johnson amendment, I think after a certain point if a church takes in so much revenue in a given period it shouldn't have a tax exemption.  

There's lots of small churches out there that are barely making ends meet.  My former parish has had to go into its endowment a couple times and is relying on grants pretty heavily right now.  Tax exempt status would be more appropriate for churches like that and the ones that are actually trying to be religious organizations.  Ones where the preacher makes more than I ever will, where he lives in million dollar homes, luxury vehicles, private jets, and so on - I figure if the church has enough to finance that sort of life style then they have enough to pay taxes.

[Hane]

@47of74, 100% this! I belong to a tiny congregation that’s struggling to stay open. Occasionally, we get FB messages from right-wingers who are scrutinizing us because we lean liberal and who have our tax-exemption status under a microscope.

[Howl]

18 hours ago, Hane said:

Occasionally, we get FB messages from right-wingers who are scrutinizing us because we lean liberal and who have our tax-exemption status under a microscope.

That's just crazy.  What the heck?  Why/how would they even be aware of you? 

[Hane]

9 hours ago, Howl said:

That's just crazy.  What the heck?  Why/how would they even be aware of you? 

We have a large Black Lives Matter banner out front. It’s been stolen twice—apparently someone has an issue with it. One guy regularly drives his pickup truck past our church and yells, “Goddamn Commies!” at us—once while the minister and I were dressed as Santa and Mrs. Claus, greeting folks arriving at our holiday fair.

[Zebedee]

So, this happened in the UK, where I have no idea about tax statuses of churches, or indeed why an American would care about them, but…

I have a friend who works in a Baptist church, which is not affiliated to any US baptist denomination. They are very liberal, something like 93% of the congregation supports allowing the church to perform gay marriages, as of a few years ago. Anyway, my friend received a call from a number in VA, from a woman who wanted to alert the minister to what she’d heard of members „promoting the gay agenda“.

Naturally, my friend looked up the number, was registered to a US baptist church, and some googling revealed it to have links with a conservative consulting company who had worked for Santorum, Giuliani, Huckabee amongst others. All of which is weird, for a church in the UK, but makes it not at all surprising that @Hane‘s church would be scrutinized by US right wingers trying to cause trouble where they can.