Carlin & Evan 11: Scary Health Situation

[clueliss]

I seem to recall that Kelly exhibited similar behavior well helping at Lawson's new house. And by helping I mean Kelly was sitting in a chair looking at her phone and concerned about a food order while everyone else was working on projects and also worrying about a severe thunderstorm rolling through.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I wonder how much Kelly and Gil helped Erin when she was very sick and had surgery. I wonder if they helped Zach and Whit with the kids when Jadon was born and went to the NICU. I just don’t see them helping that much when their children are in crisis. But they are happy to travel around for something as small as Travis’s graduation from his family’s “college.” 

[SassyPants]

34 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I wonder how much Kelly and Gil helped Erin when she was very sick and had surgery. I wonder if they helped Zach and Whit with the kids when Jadon was born and went to the NICU. I just don’t see them helping that much when their children are in crisis. But they are happy to travel around for something as small as Travis’s graduation from his family’s “college.” 

I think they help by dispatching the children that they still control to provide that help. My aunt is 6 years older than me, but married and had kids young. Since her husband was in the military and gone a lot, I was often dispatched to help in the summer. I liked it because I got away from my own, younger siblings. I also went to some fun places: Hawaii, San Diego… ETA- my parents would also send my youngest brother too as he was close in age to my aunt’s oldest boy.

Edited June 15, 2022 by SassyPants

[llucie]

42 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I think they help by dispatching the children that they still control to provide that help. 

Exactly this. For example in the stories Carlin uploaded yesterday with the doctors setting up the EEG you could see Callie in the background.

[nolongerIFBx]

1 hour ago, CanadianMamam said:

I think part of the critisicm is that Carlin should be the one sitting down and resting. Her health is so fragile and ad her mother, Kelly should be trying to make things easier for her, encouraging her to take it easy. In normal circumstances, I would never Criticize a grandparent for watching the kids because that is an important task but honestly with Carlin's fragile health, it should be all hands on deck. 

It was a prior doctor visit but I think they wanted Carlin to maintain her normal as much as possible so they can figure out what is triggering her seizures. If she is resting and taking it easy, it could take longer to find answers.

[CanadianMamam]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I wonder how much Kelly and Gil helped Erin when she was very sick and had surgery. I wonder if they helped Zach and Whit with the kids when Jadon was born and went to the NICU. I just don’t see them helping that much when their children are in crisis. But they are happy to travel around for something as small as Travis’s graduation from his family’s “college.” 

I mean Chad's mother came in from Oklahoma and stayed on the couch of their tiny cottage to watch the kids, so I am guessing Kelly and Gil weren't much help. 

41 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

It was a prior doctor visit but I think they wanted Carlin to maintain her normal as much as possible so they can figure out what is triggering her seizures. If she is resting and taking it easy, it could take longer to find answers.

That was for the holster not the EEG, different protocols. She can't leave the house for the next few days. But also until yesterday, she wasn't being monitored. 

[neuroticcat]

I imagine there's multiple factors at play, but the narcissitic supply and narrative they've gotten from having a megafamily has got to influence their perspective (we've worked so hard, done so much, have died to self so often - whatever) and give them the justification to do whatever they want. Also, the fundie idea of child raising is so bizarre that it absolutely hobbles children from being independent for adulthood and then as soon as they marry - leave and cleave, baby! So I wouldn't be surprised if there's some weird fundie core belief that it's the man's family who should show up so the woman isn't "cleaving" to her family of origin. Add that to the real logistics of her primary role ultimately being middle-management, and when would the last time she'd have to roll up her sleeves and work be? Her "job" is "training" or organizing her taskforce. 

I also agree with everyone saying attachment/bonding has to have been hampered by the reality of so many kids. What's wild is that they have been in it for so long - even under cameras - and still have no concept that it is shockingly missing normative expectations of maternal interest.

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

Weren't they going down to Florida for Alyssa's births and also her heart stuff at one point?

Maybe that was just for the show, though. Probably

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, GracieLou Free Duggar said:

Weren't they going down to Florida for Alyssa's births and also her heart stuff at one point?

Maybe that was just for the show, though. Probably

Kelly hates to miss a birth it seems. But was she in Florida much when Alyssa had her procedure? I’m not sure. But she always goes down when Alyssa has a baby. 

[Melissa1977]

5 hours ago, GracieLou Free Duggar said:

Weren't they going down to Florida for Alyssa's births and also her heart stuff at one point?

Maybe that was just for the show, though. Probably

Kelly and Gil went to Florida and stayed in the hospital during the procedure. I think they were genuinely worried. BUT they came back home soon, didn't stay looking after the girls or cooking or being useful... They are Gil and Kelly after all!

I think that being Alyssa one of the oldest, Kelly bonded with her, plus Alyssa was one of the slaves and looked very compliant as a kid, so Kelly probably liked her.

Carlin is younger. Kelly already had too many kids and who knows if it was young Michael who mothered Carlin. In addition Carlin was an active kid and a troubled teen, 2 reasons I suspect kept Kelly far from Carlin.

 

[CanadianMamam]

10 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

 

Carlin is younger. Kelly already had too many kids and who knows if it was young Michael who mothered Carlin. In addition Carlin was an active kid and a troubled teen, 2 reasons I suspect kept Kelly far from Carlin.

 

In Erin's wedding episode, Carlin was upset about Erin moving out and until their boutique fallout, the two always seemed close, so I wonder if Erin filled that role (and Michael who seemed to have filled it for all of them) and I think it makes their estrangement even sadder.

But yeah, I am convinced Kelly was checked out by Carlin. My grandmother had 8 kids and pretty much checked out emotionally after the first four (there is a gap) and her older daughters raised the younger kids. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I don’t think my grandparents checked out emotionally by their fourth, but everyone talks about how their fourth got away with everything. The siblings think my grandparents were just tired by the time 4 came along because 3 was so much trouble. 4 could do as she pleased and even when she got in trouble, she was barely punished. I think the youngest Bates boys get away with way more than the older kids. And Zach has pointed it out. They are being raised so differently than the oldest boys. 

[SassyPants]

My MIL had 7 kids. The first 5 in 4 years time, at which point she had an event the details of which were not shared. She was 40 at the time of child 5, my husband. They waited another 4 years and had a 6th child, and 7th, 2 years to the day later. In the oldest set there was 1 girl, child #2. She was a sister mom and house frau. Let’s just say at close to 70, she has never lifted a domestic finger again. She married an older man who had already raised a family, has had a very successful career and pampers herself to the hilt. The fallout from these types of childhoods is long lasting. My SIL is a great woman and would never badmouth, but deep down, I’m sure there’s resentment.

[CanadianMamam]

15 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

My MIL had 7 kids. The first 5 in 4 years time, at which point she had an event the details of which were not shared. She was 40 at the time of child 5, my husband. They waited another 4 years and had a 6th child, and 7th, 2 years to the day later. In the oldest set there was 1 girl, child #2. She was a sister mom and house frau. Let’s just say at close to 70, she has never lifted a domestic finger again. She married an older man who had already raised a family, has had a very successful career and pampers herself to the hilt. The fallout from these types of childhoods is long lasting. My SIL is a great woman and would never badmouth, but deep down, I’m sure there’s resentment.

There has to be.

My grandmother had 4 children in 5 years, waited 7 years and then had another 4 in 5  years (and then her husband died). 3 of the older children were girls and they all got assigned a sibling. 

They were also extremely poor (and there were other issues) and there was a lack of everything and my grandmother definitely checked out and let the younger 4 run wild and they all struggled without any sort of parental guidance. It also led to weird relationships between the siblings and resentment from the younger siblings that the older siblings do things for their own children that they didn't do for them. 

[Bobology]

I know only the Carlin that the show and her instagram have shown. To me Carlin has usually come across as histrionic... filled with drama, performing for attention. It's possible that in the past Carlin has trumped up or even faked illnesses (it is 'possible' that anyone has, but Carlin is very extra something) and perhaps her parents and some siblings believe Carlin is exaggerating her current health situation therefor they don't appear to be taking it too seriously. They see that she does not yet have a Dx, and that either someone has been there to literally catch her when she faints/seizes or she has somehow always fallen without great injury or injury to her kids. So maybe they think it is Carlin being Carlin. 

For the record I don't have enough info (and I shouldn't, I have no right to) to believe it is fake, but I'm saying some family members *might* be thinking it is all trumped up. I'm grasping for some explanation as to why she and Evan are navigating this more or less alone and travel to Nashville (hospitalizations and appointments aside) to receive help from Evan's family.

[Paperplate]

48 minutes ago, Bobology said:

I know only the Carlin that the show and her instagram have shown. To me Carlin has usually come across as histrionic... filled with drama, performing for attention. It's possible that in the past Carlin has trumped up or even faked illnesses (it is 'possible' that anyone has, but Carlin is very extra something) and perhaps her parents and some siblings believe Carlin is exaggerating her current health situation therefor they don't appear to be taking it too seriously. They see that she does not yet have a Dx, and that either someone has been there to literally catch her when she faints/seizes or she has somehow always fallen without great injury or injury to her kids. So maybe they think it is Carlin being Carlin. 

For the record I don't have enough info (and I shouldn't, I have no right to) to believe it is fake, but I'm saying some family members *might* be thinking it is all trumped up. I'm grasping for some explanation as to why she and Evan are navigating this more or less alone and travel to Nashville (hospitalizations and appointments aside) to receive help from Evan's family.

Maybe when it all began Kelly COULD have believed that Carlin is making it out to be worse than it actually is. But there's video of her episodes and many other people including nurses and doctors have witnessed them as well. No way is Kelly thinking that this is fake. She must have talked to Carlin and Evan about it and knows how much this has impacted them.

I'm sure Kelly has seen Carlin have an episode herself now that she spent some time with her during the move.

[Melissa1977]

Kelly only wants to listen good news. Courting a middle class fundie boy? Oh dear, tell mama about it. Wedding planning? Mama is there. A baby?  Another baby? A bachelorette party? A gender reveal party? Snow trip? Beach trip? Yes, yes and yes.

Sick kids, surgeries, marriage problems, depression... Mama is too busy to help.

[Mama Mia]

On the parenting and birth order issue - large or mega families I’m sure make the traits more pronounced - but there are some hilarious TikTok creators who do lots of videos of oldest-middle-youngest child reactions to everything. Typical oldest is ultra responsible and wants to please mom, middle is clowning around wanting attention, youngest is doing whatever the hell they want. 

[formergothardite]

7 hours ago, Bobology said:

I know only the Carlin that the show and her instagram have shown. To me Carlin has usually come across as histrionic... filled with drama, performing for attention. It's possible that in the past Carlin has trumped up or even faked illnesses (it is 'possible' that anyone has, but Carlin is very extra something) and perhaps her parents and some siblings believe Carlin is exaggerating her current health situation therefor they don't appear to be taking it too seriously. They see that she does not yet have a Dx, and that either someone has been there to literally catch her when she faints/seizes or she has somehow always fallen without great injury or injury to her kids. So maybe they think it is Carlin being Carlin. 

For the record I don't have enough info (and I shouldn't, I have no right to) to believe it is fake, but I'm saying some family members *might* be thinking it is all trumped up. I'm grasping for some explanation as to why she and Evan are navigating this more or less alone and travel to Nashville (hospitalizations and appointments aside) to receive help from Evan's family.

Ever since I listened to Gil’s IBLP speech where he mentioned that Carlin suffered from serious depression issues from the time she was a young teen and they “cured” her by making her sit through a long revival and basically telling her she needed to always look cheerful, I’ve viewed her over the top behavior a bit differently. They clearly did zero to help their depressed child, she just learned that she needed to put on a mask of extreme happiness to keep her parents from beating her over the head with religious nonsense about how being depressed is just a form of being selfish.

Looking at the sort of parents Gil and Kelly have been the most obvious answer as to why they don’t go help their sick child is that they are just terrible parents. Always have been, probably always will be. 

[CanadianMamam]

Carlin reminds me a lot of myself in my youth (minus the cult upbringing) and before my ADHD and anxiety disorder were properly treated. I am not saying she has ADHD or diagnosing her specific anxiety/depression disorders but I do think she is struggling and she was born into a cult that refuses to give her the treatment she needs. 

Talking too much, extreme emotions, making things about myself, these are all things I struggled with. And I had a lot of very unhappy times in my teens and 29s and I can't imagine how much worse it would have been if I had been born into an environment that didn't believe in mental health. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by CanadianMamam

[JermajestyDuggar]

I feel bad for the Bates children who married into families that aren’t able to help much. Because then they won’t get help from either set of parents when in crisis. I think Brandon’s parents are pretty old. I doubt they could help out a lot if they had some sort of crisis. Whitney’s dad recently passed away. So it’s just her mom now. Poor Katie seems to have married into the worst family. The Clarks would definitely help out. Because they are so controlling they would push their way in and take over I bet. 

[AussieKrissy]

On 6/16/2022 at 1:22 AM, Mama Mia said:

They have a bunch of young adults around to help with the actual physical sorting and packing and moving — it is at least as important to have someone occupying the kids.  Moving with little kids around is really tough! It would be weirdly performative to insist Grandma move boxes while some strong 20 something cuddles toddlers. 
 

eta: this isn’t in defense of Kelly in particular, but of annoyance that Grandma helping keep babies out of the way is seen as “not helpful” or doing nothing. 

I thought something similar 

 

[BeccaGrim]

Carlin says she had no episodes while she was wearing the monitor.  They're waiting to hear from the doctor. 

[SassyPants]

On 6/17/2022 at 2:42 PM, BeccaGrim said:

Carlin says she had no episodes while she was wearing the monitor.  They're waiting to hear from the doctor. 

This seems odd to me. Wasn’t she having many episodes a day? How frustrating if she has something organically wrong yet they could not capture an occurrence to make a firm diagnosis. Is she back on medications? I think many of those anti-seizure meds have a longer half life, and I’m wondering if she still had a therapeutic level that controlled her seizures during the screening.

[Keys]

Also speaks volumes, I think, that Evan’s whole family made a trip into town to help them move, and you don’t see KJ/Gil anywhere…