Katie & Travis 4: Still under the Umbrella of Patriarchy

[displayname]

When I got married, my husband and I changed our last names to his stepdad's surname. It was a nightmare, but we'd do it again in a heartbeat.

[BeccaGrim]

Carlin and Evan are in the car heading to her sister's gender reveal. Assuming that is Katie and not Alyssa.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

41 minutes ago, BeccaGrim said:

Carlin and Evan are in the car heading to her sister's gender reveal. Assuming that is Katie and not Alyssa.  

I bet it’s Katie’s. It’s her first baby and she’s always homesick. So any excuse to get her family to NJ. 

[raayx01]

Carlin passed out doing her stress test and now she's going to NJ. I don't get the post of going out of state for a gender reveal, I;d rather save my money and go to meet the baby. And we know Carlin will probably fly up there to do that as well.

[SassyPants]

42 minutes ago, raayx01 said:

Carlin passed out doing her stress test and now she's going to NJ. I don't get the post of going out of state for a gender reveal, I;d rather save my money and go to meet the baby. And we know Carlin will probably fly up there to do that as well.

And she’ll likely be complaining of feeling awful and passing out once she gets home. She always seems fine on the trips, but afterwards, no. I wish her HCP would tell her to take it easy. Most peoples’ every day lives do not involve traipsing around the country for family activities/vacations with a newborn and toddler in tow, buying a new home and completing renovations, and a FT job mere weeks after having a baby. they.just.do.not. 

This made me remember something…Many years ago after a move, my daughter was picked for a traveling soccer team. One of the kids on the team would have seizures and pass out all the time. The first time it happened was on a long training run in the heat. I remember my daughter, who was 13 at the time, coming home and telling me that she tried to help, but the coach and other girls who had been her teammate for some years told my daughter to “ignore her and keep running.” This girl passed out numerous times during games. Of course her parents where never in attendance (fundie family with lots of kids). I do remember at one event EMS was called. I had forgotten all about this until now. No matter the cause, seizure activity and passing out can not be damage free, right? Wonder if hypoxia is occurring?

[CanadianMamam]

Carlin kind of addressed this in her stories. She says at home she ends up doing more because she feels obligated to do Renos or work on boutique business, etc. 

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

Carlin kind of addressed this in her stories. She says at home she ends up doing more because she feels obligated to do Renos or work on boutique business, etc. 

Well, since this might be contributing to her health issues, she should get some help with how to safely handle the stress.

[AussieKrissy]

6 hours ago, displayname said:

When I got married, my husband and I changed our last names to his stepdad's surname. It was a nightmare, but we'd do it again in a heartbeat.

My friend did something similar he changed his name first, to his grandfather (maternal) last name (so his mum's maiden name I suppose) and then when his wife married him she took his new last name 

[Marly]

On 9/5/2022 at 10:12 PM, Keys said:

And for what it’s worth, I don’t see it as a loss of identity at all. I’m really happy to have the same last name as our baby. I don’t see it as patriarchal or non-progressive; it was 100% my choice.

Your baby could have had your last name too, though. It didn't have to be your hb's. He could have taken on your name and then he would have had the same name as his baby.

Anyway, I personally hate that the male name is still the automatic standard for offspring and for marriage. I hate it with a passion. Specifically because many women choose to take on their hb's name because they want the same name as their child. So give your child your last name?

In my country naming laws are ridiculously strict* (I don't agree with that). Hb and I ended up BOTH hyphenating. Result: whenever my hb applies for things or has to arrange things for his job via email/digitally and he fills out his hyphenated name, they automatically assume he's a she. Because men don't hyphenate, that's a thing only women do apparently. The statistics confirm this: only 1,1% of Dutch males take on their wife's last name, and only 3,6 percent take on each other's name (hyphenate). 74% takes on the name of their hb. 

Hb and I agreed that if we have children, they will get my name. He didn't like it at first, but this was my hill. I explained my reasoning and that I don't want to contribute to nor continue a tradition that is imo rooted in misogyny and held up by patriarchal and misogynistic beliefs.  
*Caveat here: I am all for choosing your own new family name as a couple. Unfortunately, this is not allowed in my country. Nor is hyphenating the last name of your child (which is what we initially wanted). 

I also now that a lot of you won't agree with this. If you've chosen to take on your hb's name, that's your personal choice and I do agree that everyone should at least be able to choose.
What I have a problem with, is that on average men aren't even asked to consider changing their name. The thought is completely alien to most. When I asked my best friend when he announced his engagement what they were going to do last name wise, he looked at me as if I was insane. "We take on my name, of course", was the response. My hb had never even considered the possibility that any future children wouldn't automatically get his last name. And that's what rubs me the wrong way. I don't want the male name to be the standard. Both names should get equal consideration, and both men and women should be aware of the roots of the Western naming tradition (women as property).

I am sorry for this long rant, but this is a subject I am very passionate about.
 

[FluffySnowball]

On 9/7/2022 at 10:31 PM, raayx01 said:

Carlin passed out doing her stress test and now she's going to NJ. I don't get the post of going out of state for a gender reveal, I;d rather save my money and go to meet the baby. And we know Carlin will probably fly up there to do that as well.

I totally get your point, but I think that as long as Carlin enjoys these trips and doctors don't warn her they might be detrimental for her health, its fine she takes them.

For one, changing up her life and scheduled events because of her (yet to be diagnosed) illness might make her feel even more sick and left out. Also, if a young woman her age travels, e.g. during college, nobody would bat an eye. As Carlin never got the opportunity to live her own life, at least she's out and about with her husband and kids in tow. 

[quiversR4hunting]

@Marly very interesting post about last names. It is still expected in the US for the woman to take the mans last name. Even after divorce with children many women keep their ex's last name. I changed my name back, so many people find that odd that I don't have the same last name as my children. Ummm they are still my children no matter my last name. Plus these people wouldn't find it odd that I don't have the same as my children if I remarried and changed to my name to the new husband's name. Some people are dumb and don't think.  I don't know if I will ever change my name, even if I get married again. It is a pain in the ass and I like my last name. 

What I am having difficulty with is getting parent sport clothes with my daughters' last name on it. 2 issues, sometimes I am one of the coaches so I am "Coach <my last name> so my shirt should reflect that. The other issue I don't want to wear his last name. I don't want people to call me Mrs. <ex last name> - many people know me by that name so I don't say much but I am gently correcting people that use my last name a lot and I feel wearing a shirt with his last name would reinforce people to use that last name as mine when it isn't. I think I will just get sport clothes with no name on the back, unless I am the coach or player (we had a parents against kids game last year so my shirt has my last name). 

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

On 9/5/2022 at 4:12 PM, Keys said:

I’m Italian too, and my maiden name was a nightmare for non-Italian people to pronounce, lol. Especially because I’m in a profession where I’m referred to by my last name often. My husband is mostly Italian too, but has a bit of Irish, and his last name is Irish and very easy to pronounce and spell. So I was very happy to take his last name when we got married! I now have a very Italian first name and a very Irish last name, so opposite to you, and I love it! 

How did (or did you?) manage to legally change your name with the Italian government? My husband and I explored one of us changing our last name, mostly because we wanted all the family to have the same last name. I talked to someone at the Italian embassy here at the time, and they basically told me that to legally change my name in Italy I would have had to go to court (in Italy) and it is a whole (headache-inducing) thing, and rarely granted. I could add "married to [husband's last name]" to my documents though.

My husband is German and apparently there too it would be a legal/administrative nightmare. Although in the US, where we live, it's more common to change last name and it would not be a problem, one of us would have had to deal with perpetual discrepancies in our legal documents in the different countries. I could foresee the massive headaches at airports, immigration counters, passport controls, etc. etc. etc. for years to come, and we decided to leave things as they were and keep on having our own last names. Our son took my husband's last name (easier to spell for Americans). When I travel alone with him I always carry a copy of his birth certificate, alongside his other travel documents, just in case someone questions if I am really the mother. So far we've had no issues (and of course we did not travel internationally anywhere as a family in the last 3 years because COVID...)

Edited September 9, 2022 by Shouldabeenacowboy

[CarrotCake]

4 hours ago, Marly said:

 Nor is hyphenating the last name of your child (which is what we initially wanted). 

You know this is changing right? All kids born after 2019 can now have a double last name.

Edited September 9, 2022 by CarrotCake

[Keys]

37 minutes ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

How did (or did you?) manage to legally change your name with the Italian government? My husband and I explored one of us changing our last name, mostly because we wanted all the family to have the same last name. I talked to someone at the Italian embassy here at the time, and they basically told me that to legally change my name in Italy I would have had to go to court (in Italy) and it is a whole (headache-inducing) thing, and rarely granted. I could add "married to [husband's last name]" to my documents though.

My husband is German and apparently there too it would be a legal/administrative nightmare. Although in the US, where we live, it's more common to change last name and it would not be a problem, one of us would have had to deal with perpetual discrepancies in our legal documents in the different countries. I could foresee the massive headaches at airports, immigration counters, passport controls, etc. etc. etc. for years to come, and we decided to leave things as they were and keep on having our own last names. Our son took my husband's last name (easier to spell for Americans). When I travel alone with him I always carry a copy of his birth certificate, alongside his other travel documents, just in case someone questions if I am really the mother. So far we've had no issues (and of course we did not travel internationally anywhere as a family in the last 3 years because COVID...)

Oh I’m sorry - I’m not actually an Italian citizen! Just Italian descent, but born and living in Canada where it’s very easy to assume or legally change a last name. I know it’s not the norm for people in Italy to change their last names (none of my relatives who live there still have!)

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I told my husband I didn't want to take his last name and he said, "that's fine, I don't want to take yours so I figure you wouldn't want mine."  Very easy peasy.  We actually weren't 100% which last name we'd give our daughter until I actually filled out the forms in the hospital.  I told him we'd use his name, but he had already agreed to mine and asked if I was totally sure before we submitted.  His family and coworkers generally refer to me as "Mrs. HisName" and I don't correct them.  One of my classmates got married and took her husband's name while in school and we were all delighted to discover that things addressed to both of them should be to Dr. and Mr. Lastname.  The degree trumps the penis.

[Smoochie]

16 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

I totally get your point, but I think that as long as Carlin enjoys these trips and doctors don't warn her they might be detrimental for her health, its fine she takes them.

For one, changing up her life and scheduled events because of her (yet to be diagnosed) illness might make her feel even more sick and left out. Also, if a young woman her age travels, e.g. during college, nobody would bat an eye. As Carlin never got the opportunity to live her own life, at least she's out and about with her husband and kids in tow. 

And they got their flights for $19 each ... dang, that's a deal!

[marmalade]

20 minutes ago, Smoochie said:

And they got their flights for $19 each ... dang, that's a deal!

But they had to pay for checked luggage, carry ons, and other fees. Not quite the deal they portray.

[raayx01]

22 minutes ago, Smoochie said:

And they got their flights for $19 each ... dang, that's a deal!

how do you get a flight for 19 dollars

[Melissa1977]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:18 AM, CanadianMamam said:

Carlin kind of addressed this in her stories. She says at home she ends up doing more because she feels obligated to do Renos or work on boutique business, etc. 

The fact that she is OK while travelling and sick at home/ job makes the think about her mental health. She may work too much at home, but travelling with babies is exhausting, so I don't buy her explanation.

I understand that if keep moving makes her feel better, she does it. But it's not the solution at all. Even if she had the money to travel/party nonstop, she needs therapy for her stress issues or it will go worse.

 

[Smash!]

@Marly I agree 100% It’s a huge pet peeve of mine. A friend of mine changed her name after marriage because her fiancé wanted the baby boy on the way to have his last name. What irked me was that she had a very established career here with a big leadership position lined up while he moved from a different country to be with her and starting over career wise.

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, Smash! said:

@Marly I agree 100% It’s a huge pet peeve of mine. A friend of mine changed her name after marriage because her fiancé wanted the baby boy on the way to have his last name. What irked me was that she had a very established career here with a big leadership position lined up while he moved from a different country to be with her and starting over career wise.

The clincher for me is if you suggest to the man that he could change his last name, the look of disgust and offense you receive. Definitely reveals something about how they do see it as a bit degrading, but they on some level believe that's what women should accept. 

[0 kids n not countin]

They're having a girl.

[CanadianMamam]

Another Bates girl. This is girl #17 and grandchild #23. 

[Dbm]

The mess that happened in the pool wasn't necessary in my opinion, I'm positive they only did it for the YouTube video.  

[Melissa1977]

Another girl! How many Grandbatettes are there?

I'm being BEC, but while the pool decor was nice, why is everything Katie sooo plain? Maybe it's the IG filters she use, but everything look always cold and they look low-enthusiastic.  The 2 uncles in pink/blue floaties were ridiculous IMO. 

I started following Bates when Katie was a pre-teen. She was a funny and energetic kid, and smart. At some point, her personality was erased. One can say it happens usually in fundie families, but it has been very extreme with Katie. She reminds me the book The Stepford Wives. Is Katie still Katie or has been replaced?