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(CW&CSA) Josh & Anna 52: Sweeping Crackers for a Lower Sentence


samurai_sarah

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16 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

What does this mean? Will he get a lesser sentence as a result?

It's what the experts expected. Josh didn't get a new trial and he'll only be facing a max of 20 years.  Not the 40 WOACB kept insisting he could. 

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My therapist said something interesting in my eating disorder group coaching today, shame can manifest itself as a feeling of superiority because it can be a way for shame to hide. What do we think about this in term of the smugness of Josh? Do we think he carries shame deep down? Do we think his smugness and refusal to admit guilt could be a way of running from overwhelming feelings of shame?

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2 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

My therapist said something interesting in my eating disorder group coaching today, shame can manifest itself as a feeling of superiority because it can be a way for shame to hide. What do we think about this in term of the smugness of Josh? Do we think he carries shame deep down? Do we think his smugness and refusal to admit guilt could be a way of running from overwhelming feelings of shame?

Absolutely, this is possible, even likely. But does it matter, in the end? He did things that hurt people. He is responsible for that.

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34 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

What does this mean? Will he get a lesser sentence as a result?

The way I heard it explained (IANAL) is that as the laws are written one can be convicted for receipt or possession but not both for the same act. However, prosecutors charge both to increase the chance of the jury finding guilty for at least one offense. Then, the judge vacates one of the convictions if the jury finds the defendant guilty of both offenses. It seems odd, since my common sense would indicate that one can't have received something without possessing it, or possess something without having received it.

Distribution of materials, on the other hand, would be a separate, and even more serious, offense.

 

 

 

Edited by FiveAcres
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1 hour ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

I always have a hard time understanding these scenarios. I love my husband and he's a great guy, but no matter what happens between us, my child(ren) will always be #1. I cannot imagine any scenario where I would pick a partner - or anyone else- over my child(ren). 

My personal opinion. YMMV. 

I agree, but these cases can be REALLY challenging. A large number of women stay because they - or their children, or other family members - have been threatened with death if they leave. And that is not always an unrealistic threat - CPS or restraining orders or cops not withstanding. Everyone knows the most dangerous time is after the victim leaves. The abuser knows this too, and plays up on this.  I have some horrible stories from when I was a social worker and trying to get families relocated. 
Of course there are also other parents ( ahem — Anna) who will stay because they are desperately in lurve and put the abuser 1st. She’s the most frustrating type because despite her indoctrination she does have more options than many women. 
And of course there is also always basic financial and emotional manipulation - depending where you are and what resources are available - CPS threatening to take the baby but giving you no place to stay, and the shelters are full, and your family has all been driven away, and you haven’t been allowed friends or work or cash or a car in the last 5 states you’ve been drug through  — where do you actually go? 
But yes, the women who just choose to stay , when there are any other options, and lose their kids? I don’t get that. And it’s so common.
 

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TW: justification of sexual abuse, general shittiness 


Tweets from Caleb Williams (who is also a convicted child abuser) who the defense tried to infer actually downloaded the CSAM. According to him, Anna believes Josh was framed. 

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Caleb also went to the Reddit to defend his own history of abuse/grooming and made some blood-boiling tweets saying he was a victim of grooming. I hate these people so much. 

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This is when I haaaaaate being part of an international forum. I am sitting here at 8.50am Wednesday morning on the 25th (in New Zealand) and I think it is a perfectly fine time for the court to do its thing. Now I have to wait for Arkansas to catch up 😭

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5 hours ago, livinginthelight said:

I completely agree with you. However, his lack of interest in Anna or the kids might be overridden by a desire to proclaim to the world "I'm a healthy normal family man! And my wife is willing to have sex with me. Nothing to see here folks!"

If he doesn't create more children, the implication might be that she privately sees him as a monster despite her public support and refuses to have sex with him.

Oh, I agree that when he gets out of jail, if Anna is still fertile, Josh will do nothing to prevent having more kids.    I was commenting on the speculation that they might get fertility treatments.   I don’t think Josh would want the bother or the expense (if JB doesn’t cover fertility treatments).  He would probably use the excuse that they shouldn’t interfere with God’s plan or something like that, but it would be more that he was lazy and unmotivated.

I suspect that he will find many ways to proclaim to the world that he is still having sex with Anna even if they don’t have a little bundle of joy to prove it.  

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I wonder which of the Duggar family and friends will show up for the sentencing tomorrow.

Anyone know what time it's scheduled for?

1 minute ago, Mama Mia said:

Of course there are also other parents ( ahem — Anna) who will stay because they are desperately in lurve and put the abuser 1st. She’s the most frustrating type because despite her indoctrination she does have more options than many women.

I see no way that the molestations, then Ashley Madison, then the CSAM haven't set off red lights in Anna's head.  I don't think she's the brightest, but a three-digit IQ isn't needed here.  She has also been trained to be a loyal and submissive helpmeet and is in a position where persons of authority (JB and her father, as examples) support Josh.  She has a young baby along with six other kids, probably desperately wants to avoid the media, and I imagine feels fairly safe with a roof, food, and other bills being reliably paid.  I really don't see her budging, at least for a good while.  She appears pretty adept at creating an emotional bubble for herself, with an A+ for suspending judgement and obeying her marriage vows.

I doubt Josh wants any more kids and would have been fine with no more than two.  I suspect Anna views intimacy as reinforcement that he loves her and isn't straying, and also enjoys having lots of babies.  If they're still together when he gets out - by which I mean he hasn't decided to leave her - then I'd expect them to let nature take it's course but no IVF, etc.

Hope someone supportive is staying with Anna and the kids.  If Anna is stressed enough, which she should be, then the kids must be feeling it too.

3 minutes ago, Mrs Ms said:

This is when I haaaaaate being part of an international forum. I am sitting here at 8.50am Wednesday morning on the 25th and I think it is a perfectly fine time for the court to do its thing. Now I have to wait for Arkansas to catch up 😬

Yeah, it's still late afternoon on the 24th here (DC area).  One night's sleep away from finding out that number.  Still guessing 7.75 years.  Depending on the time of the sentencing, perhaps you can stay up late?

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6 hours ago, DottyC said:

That was my first thought too. In a previous job I had, this happened. Mum chose the pedo and the kids were taken off her including the one she was expecting when they took the toddler. When the time came they just went to the maternity hospital and took the newborn too, no messing. (UK here too)

One thing to remember is that Josh isn’t going to prison for molesting kids; he is going to prison for CSAM.  There is a possible argument, because there are no known molestations since his sisters and that case never went to court, that Josh poses no danger to his kids.  He might be a viewer, not a doer.

While viewing is regarded as equal to doing in this type of cases, it is only because the viewing further victimizes the children in the videos, not because there is a consensus that viewers automatically become doers.

Although we know that Josh has been more than a viewer and we can speculate that he poses a danger to kids, without actual legal proof it would be hard for the state to limit his access to his kids when he gets out of prison, especially if Anna and the kids indicate they want him home.  

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35 minutes ago, Mrs Ms said:

This is when I haaaaaate being part of an international forum. I am sitting here at 8.50am Wednesday morning on the 25th (in New Zealand) and I think it is a perfectly fine time for the court to do its thing. Now I have to wait for Arkansas to catch up 😭

The problem is not that this is an international forum.  The problem is the Duggars live in Arkansas and Josh is being sentenced there.   If you want to be on the same time zone, you need to move to the Central US or else move Josh and company to New Zealand. 😉🙂😉

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1 hour ago, Jackie3 said:

Absolutely, this is possible, even likely. But does it matter, in the end? He did things that hurt people. He is responsible for that.

I think it matters, not because it makes him less culpable for actions, but because by understanding him we can have a window into his psyche.
 

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

And of course there is also always basic financial and emotional manipulation - depending where you are and what resources are available - CPS threatening to take the baby but giving you no place to stay, and the shelters are full, and your family has all been driven away, and you haven’t been allowed friends or work or cash or a car in the last 5 states you’ve been drug through  — where do you actually go? 

 

Emotional and financial abuse, that sounds right up Jim Bob’s alley!
 

14 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

One thing to remember is that Josh isn’t going to prison for molesting kids; he is going to prison for CSAM.  There is a possible argument, because there are no known molestations since his sisters and that case never went to court, that Josh poses no danger to his kids.  He might be a viewer, not a doer.

While viewing is regarded as equal to doing in this type of cases, it is only because the viewing further victimizes the children in the videos, not because there is a consensus that viewers automatically become doers.

Although we know that Josh has been more than a viewer and we can speculate that he poses a danger to kids, without actual legal proof it would be hard for the state to limit his access to his kids when he gets out of prison, especially if Anna and the kids indicate they want him home.  

I truly believe he has molested other girls, we simply don’t know about it. 

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DuggarSnark on Reddit is reporting the sentencing starts at 9:30 am. Arkansas time, so 8:30 am Mountain Daylight time.

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This thread is going to go nuts tomorrow. :popcorn2: 

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Question: I figure the judge has already made up his mind on how long Smuggar will be under lock and key. So what would be the point in either side presenting their case tomorrow?

Yea I get the letters being sent a few weeks ago, but what done is done. Not like anything is going to change the Judge’s mind now

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1 hour ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I truly believe he has molested other girls, we simply don’t know about it. 

So do I thought this from the beginning. 

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4 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

The way I heard it explained (IANAL) is that as the laws are written one can be convicted for receipt or possession but not both for the same act. However, prosecutors charge both to increase the chance of the jury finding guilty for at least one offense. Then, the judge vacates one of the convictions if the jury finds the defendant guilty of both offenses. It seems odd, since my common sense would indicate that one can't have received something without possessing it, or possess something without having received it.

Distribution of materials, on the other hand, would be a separate, and even more serious, offense.

 

 

 

God, I hope you’re right. Hearing that half the conviction was vacated is not what I needed today. 
 

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1 hour ago, onekidanddone said:

Question: I figure the judge has already made up his mind on how long Smuggar will be under lock and key. So what would be the point in either side presenting their case tomorrow?

Yea I get the letters being sent a few weeks ago, but what done is done. Not like anything is going to change the Judge’s mind now

I’m hopeful that the judge will see through it. He already saw through Jim Bob. 

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Tomorrow is the first time Anna will see Josh in person since December, right? Didn’t someone here figure out that the county prison only allows phone calls or in-prison video visits?

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4 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

The way I heard it explained (IANAL) is that as the laws are written one can be convicted for receipt or possession but not both

This was talked about on here during or right after the trial.

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3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

The problem is not that this is an international forum.  The problem is the Duggars live in Arkansas and Josh is being sentenced there.   If you want to be on the same time zone, you need to move to the Central US or else move Josh and company to New Zealand. 😉🙂😉

No thanks! Feeling better now, thanks for the pep talk! 😉

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5 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

It's what the experts expected. Josh didn't get a new trial and he'll only be facing a max of 20 years.  Not the 40 WOACB kept insisting he could. 

No one except WOACB thought he could get 40 years and she has no legal experience.

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10 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

No one except WOACB thought he could get 40 years and she has no legal experience.

Yes, although unfortunately most of her fangirls seem to believe she knows what she's talking about. 

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