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The Mother Dust

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To absolutely no one's surprise 

https://www.babygaga.com/ex-ramsey-solutions-employee-launches-pregnancy-discrimination-lawsuit/  & https://fox17.com/news/local/former-ramsey-solutions-employee-claims-she-was-fired-because-was-pregnant. &  https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/williamson/2020/07/21/ramsey-solutions-lawsuit-caitlin-oconnor-franklin-tn/5482489002/   

 

Mods, if this has already been talked about, feel free to delete this.  I did a search but didnt see a prior posting about it.

This happened in July, but i only learned about it now because i was specifically googling Dave Ramsey to try and find out if he's forced his employees back to in person work, after being forced to let people work remotely when the pandemic first hit.   Its so frustrating that this hasnt been more widely covered!  Do any lawyers or people in a law related profession here have any thoughts on her chances of winning this lawsuit?  I thinks its still ongoing, i didnt see any other updated news about it since July.

Dave did the Christian thing by taking away her health insurance.  No prenatal care for this baby Dave?  Prolife my ass.

Edited by Coconut Flan
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Because firing a pregnant woman and taking away her access to healthcare is 'righteous living'. ?

If pro lifers care so much about the well being of unborn babies why are they not fighting for affordable pre and post natal health care?

Eta: ok, this galls me. My pregnancy? Ultrasound at 10, 16, 20, 24 and then weekly from 27 to 36 weeks. NST every 48hrs from 33 to 36. Countless prenatal appointments and 3 er visits for complications during the pregnancy. Emergency c section at 36 weeks, 5 days hospital recovery. 

Total cost? A $100 deposit for a hospital grade breast pump from public health because the one they had in maternity was being used. And $50 for new breast pump parts.

If we had required an air or ground transfer to a different hospital it would have been covered. 

I know a twin mom in the states who had complications and her twins had to be airlifted to a nicu. 80k bill for the transportation, insurance covered 8k. 

Edited by Skyline
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@The Mother Dust, thank you for sharing this. I, for one, hadn't heard this. Even back when I was  anti-abortion this punitive action never resonated with me. How are you in any way incentivizing women to chose keeping a pregnancy over abortion? How?  

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24 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

How are you in any way incentivizing women to chose keeping a pregnancy over abortion? How?  

Especially if a pregnant woman has to fear being fired from her job if she is found out to be pregnant ! How is that supposed to discourage abortions again ? That's one additional proof (as if there weren't enough already) that the "pro-life" stance doesn't care in the slightest about the child. The obvious, most important goal that takes precedence over everything else is the hope of punishing women for having sex outside of marriage. That's it. There is no other reasoning or belief system behind it. It's about condemning "immoral" women to an unwanted pregnancy, poverty and social exclusion. The fetus is just being instrumentalized to make the mother's life hell. These people are so openly and unabashedly pursuing misogynistic goals that every single woman with two brain cells left should work against them. They need to be fought wherever they rear their ugly heads.

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There's a good amount of information out there regarding Dave being an absolute control freak when it comes to his employees.  Just to apply and interview for a job with his company involves disclosing financial details (we are not talking about the typical pre-employment credit check here) and also involves interviewing the spouse.   And also the time he brought a gun to an employee meeting to make a point about gossip in his workplace.    That he fires a pregnant unmarried woman is not a surprise to me.  

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Ugh. This is so gross. 

I've defended him on here before. I do think some of his financial advice is good, and I appreciate that he gives solid advice in the evangelical Christian realm that is so often full of hucksters and scams (he criticizes prosperity gospel, for instance, and also has told callers they do not need to tithe more than 10% no matter what their scammy pastor might say). 

I've long just tuned out some of his rants, but when he started calling people taking precautions early on in the pandemic "lacking in faith" I was really bothered. 

I'm also curious how the company ensures its male employees are not having pre-marital sex?

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I've only heard of Dave Ramsey through the Duggars. Jim Bob and Michelle gave his book to Derick and Jill, who have also promoted his book.

I agree it's hardly to pro-life to kick a mother off her income and health insurance. Not to mention, it incentivizes other employees to have abortions since showing up to work pregnant and single can get you fired. 

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5 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I've defended him on here before. I do think some of his financial advice is good, and I appreciate that he gives solid advice in the evangelical Christian realm that is so often full of hucksters and scams (he criticizes prosperity gospel, for instance, and also has told callers they do not need to tithe more than 10% no matter what their scammy pastor might say).

I am not a fan but agree that some of his advice is good especially for those who are in the "pants on fire" phase and really need to get a handle on their money.   While I personally consider his biblical approach to money to be irrelevant as far as I am concerned, I understand that for others it's important and he sets them straight on what to do such as tithing, and not be taken advantage of.   But I really have a hard time with his focus on what his employees do outside of their work life.  

 

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While I understand that churches need money, and I don't have a problem with people donating money. I also don't see the need to give 10% of your income to a church.  I think it's better to just give what you can afford. 

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38 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

While I understand that churches need money, and I don't have a problem with people donating money. I also don't see the need to give 10% of your income to a church.  I think it's better to just give what you can afford. 

Mr. No had an issue with his church back when he was in college.   They wanted him to commit to a specific amount and being that he was a poor college student, working and paying his way through school with not much money to spare, he really had to put his foot down on what he could afford.   Church wasn't happy but then again what were they going to do?  Excommunicate him?

As a kid, my folks would give me the money to put in offerings but once I started working and earning my own money, the church got very little for the exact same reasons as Mr. No: had to pay for the education.  My folks were big on giving to the church and weren't exactly happy that I wasn't giving much but they were the same ones insisting I help pay for my education.  Can't have it both ways.

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2 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

There's a good amount of information out there regarding Dave being an absolute control freak when it comes to his employees.

Outside of the circle of his leghumpers, he's long been known as a fucking asshole.

I hope this woman prevails in court and kicks his ass financially. 

 

 

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These companies should not be allowed to force their religious beliefs on their employees...PERIOD.  It's discrimination and very un-Christian.

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13 hours ago, artdecades said:

So basically he would rather she have an abortion. Oh, he's anti-choice too? There is no way to win with these people.

It's only contradictory if you believe their stated intent of protecting the unborn or of protecting christian morals. Those are lies. It's about punishing an employee who had sex without being married. An abortion would allow her to get out of the punishment, that's why he is against it. Keeping her employed would mean that she is "only" saddled with a child, that's not enough suffering, especially if the child was wanted. Firing her adds poverty and, in the US, lack of access to medical care to the mix. That's an appropriate revenge for her fault. Keeping men from having sex outside of marriage is not a priority because they are not women. It's not about controlling people so they respect moral boundaries, it's about making women suffer specifically. It's about hurting women, about keeping them out of paid employment, about ruining their life plans, about keeping them from exerting control over their bodies. It's a war on women.

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17 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

There's a good amount of information out there regarding Dave being an absolute control freak when it comes to his employees.  Just to apply and interview for a job with his company involves disclosing financial details (we are not talking about the typical pre-employment credit check here) and also involves interviewing the spouse.   And also the time he brought a gun to an employee meeting to make a point about gossip in his workplace.    That he fires a pregnant unmarried woman is not a surprise to me.  

Can confirm all of this.  I know multiple people who witnessed the gun incident. His gossip policy was essentially tattle on everyone to save your skin. There are other cases of people he shamed and embarrassed as he fired them, but they have not chosen to go public. 

Dave is a cult leader. You either drink the Kool-Aid and leg hump for the Christmas parties, or you find yourself exiting under false charges with a non-disclosure so you are still employable. It always amazes me that people don’t ask where the money for the Christmas parties comes from. Especially since employees are underpaid and will take it for the right to work for Glorious Leader Dave. 

Dave doesn’t want people working remotely and when our county was shut down, his parking lot was full. Can’t keep them in check when they aren’t there . Of course he had to be shut down when multiple COVID cases appeared there. I’d say most locals have realized what he is and the only people who defend him are his employees. 

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/spies-cash-and-fear-inside-christian-money-guru-dave-ramseys-social-media-witch-hunt
 

https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pith-in-the-wind/article/21096181/deposition-yes-dave-ramsey-pulled-out-a-gun-in-staff-meeting-decrying-gossip
 

 

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I am a lifelong United Methodist. The church I grew up in did not have a stewardship campaign so I was surprised in college and then later as a young adult to have about a month's worth of sermons on stewardship and then get my card. Much to the dismay of the finance committee I have never filled in my card. my fear was always that, working in the field of education, we would have to do severe budget cuts and I would not be employed the next school year, so it was hard for me to project what I could give. I also think of two Bible verses don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing, which I interpret as it's nobody's business but mine and God's what I put in the offering plate (although once I bought a house and started itemizing deductions I made sure I gave my check so I can take it off my taxes). The second one I remember hearing is God loves a cheerful giver. I am not a cheerful giver if what I intend to give God is treated as another bill to pay, which a stewardship campaign makes it feel like.

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15 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Outside of the circle of his leghumpers, he's long been known as a fucking asshole.

I hope this woman prevails in court and kicks his ass financially. 

 

 

Somehow I missed your link to the Daily Beast article. Sorry to double up!

23 hours ago, The Mother Dust said:

Dave did the Christian thing by taking away her health insurance.  No prenatal care for this baby Dave?  

My information is old and things might have changed, but at one point the insurance was hella expensive and many people got it elsewhere. I know commission-based people who had to pay out of pocket for company insurance because paycheck didn’t cover it. I know this situation is different, but if an employee’s spouse had insurance through their work, that’s how most people had coverage  

 

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14 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

These companies should not be allowed to force their religious beliefs on their employees...PERIOD.  It's discrimination and very un-Christian.

I agree @RosyDaisy, unfortunately, they get away with it.   Tidbit encounter here; I was at an OnCue pumping gas, across from me was a man filling up, he nodded, I glared.  It was Green, [Hobby Lobby], in Oklahoma we recognize the evil Green family.  I can't even stand to drive by their headquarters, they are vile.

Sorry for the Wiki info post [it appears accurate], but it was quick and easy, I'm still waking up Lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby_Stores,_Inc.#Majority_opinion

On June 30, 2014, Associate Justice Samuel Alito delivered the judgment of the court. Four justices (Roberts, Scalia, Kennedy, and Thomas) joined him to strike down the HHS mandate, as applied to closely held corporations with religious objections, and to prevent the plaintiffs from being compelled to provide contraception under their healthcare plans. The ruling was reached on statutory grounds, citing the RFRA, because the mandate was not the "least restrictive" method of implementing the government's interest. The ruling did not address Hobby Lobby's claims under the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment.[40]

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15 hours ago, artdecades said:

So basically he would rather she have an abortion. Oh, he's anti-choice too? There is no way to win with these people.

No, he wants her to choose to never have sex until the preacher sats she can.

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At the end of the day, have the Duggars ever endorsed a person with integrity? All they sprout is hatred, even when one might not see it at the first glance. 

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2 hours ago, FusterCluck said:

Dave doesn’t want people working remotely and when our county was shut down, his parking lot was full. Can’t keep them in check when they aren’t there . Of course he had to be shut down when multiple COVID cases appeared there. I’d say most locals have realized what he is and the only people who defend him are his employees. 

Oh yeah, I remember reading something about that.   Once again, not surprised that he didn't shut down and was forced to.  

I imagine that, at one point, there were a lot of people who wanted to work for him but that was likely years ago before the stories came out on what it was really like.

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5 hours ago, ALM7 said:

I agree @RosyDaisy, unfortunately, they get away with it. 

I totally agree, and they get away with it because people ignore what's going on since it doesn't affect them personally.

Even worse, Ramsey has fairly prominent supporters like Crystal Paine of Money-Saving Mom. She's all about grace and love these days so I wonder what she thinks about Ramsey's disgusting actions here or the previously reported abuse of his employees.

Wait, he's a Christian, right? So this is all gossip, right? OK - never mind! All good!

 

 

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Dave Ramsey's financial coublog is hit and miss , I think .  On one hand he is adamantly opposed to reverse mortgages , even those endorsed by Republicans .   https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/how-reverse-mortgages-work  But then he justifies MLMs .  http://www.pinktruth.com/2016/01/13/what-does-dave-ramsey-say-about-multilevel-marketing/  

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What an asshat.  He will be no doubt putting up a nativity set for the holidays, as if he would show a shred of compassion to folks in need on a dark wintry night. 

These hypocrites would kick pregnant Mary out of their fold and claim that it's for her own repentance. 

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On 10/11/2020 at 4:51 PM, Marmion said:

Dave Ramsey's financial coublog is hit and miss , I think .  On one hand he is adamantly opposed to reverse mortgages , even those endorsed by Republicans .   https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/how-reverse-mortgages-work  But then he justifies MLMs .  http://www.pinktruth.com/2016/01/13/what-does-dave-ramsey-say-about-multilevel-marketing/  

Interesting. I always wondered his stance on MLMs. I did find it notable that he didn't take any calls on the topic, despite them being a big problem in evangelical circles, and often putting people in debt. 

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  • Coconut Flan changed the title to Dave Ramsey

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