Jeremiah & Hannah 2: Flight Instructor Jeremiah Married Hannah Wissman: Exclusive to US!

[Melissa1977]

16 hours ago, Meggo said:

But how the HECK are these women having babies every year?

Many of them train the kids severely, for example using Ezzo training, like Kelly Jo and/or hard schedules like Ma Bontrager. Letting them cry, blanket training, forced feedings, ignoring their emotional needs, hitting them and creating little robots that entertain themselves and don't complain.

Anyway, even if mothers are overwhelmed and tired must submit their husbands and keep getting pregnant again and again. 

 

[SorenaJ]

39 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Many of them train the kids severely, for example using Ezzo training, like Kelly Jo and/or hard schedules like Ma Bontrager. Letting them cry, blanket training, forced feedings, ignoring their emotional needs, hitting them and creating little robots that entertain themselves and don't complain.

Anyway, even if mothers are overwhelmed and tired must submit their husbands and keep getting pregnant again and again. 

 

And some put them in cages 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

And some put them in cages 

You are probably talking about Jill Rod. She did have a very small baby cage that was completely inappropriate. However I have to argue that baby cribs are basically cages. I used cribs and I’m not ashamed at all. But I have to say that baby cages for the most part aren’t a big deal to me. Pack and plays and cribs are cages that keep kids safe. Now over using them is an issue. Kids shouldn’t be put in their baby cages 24/7. 

[Bastet]

18 hours ago, GiggleOfGirls said:

It’s always possible. That’s kind of what I did. I got sucked into the QF stuff for a few years, had 4 babies in my 20s, and then realized that having any more would be catastrophic for my mental health and so stopped. 

  It’s pretty common to change your mind with experience. I’ve often heard people say, “We both want a really big family,” and then to realize several closely spaced kids later what that entails physically, mentally, and financially. In other words, a laundry room breakdown usually prompts a closing of the womb; if a helpful grandma does materialize, she will tell you that your continuing to have babies at a breakneck speed will risk the wellbeing of everyone. She will NOT tell you to just pray more and sacrifice your daughters to a childhood of sister mom slavery. 

[OyToTheVey]

I'm having a laundry room breakdown now just reading about 7 kids in 7 years. And I don't have any kids. I'm already traumatized.

[Hazelbunny]

Courtney's 1 - 12 in 1 - 12 years regularly give me panic attacks! Especially if I have just been looking after my Brothers 3 youngest or my Sisters 2 under 2. My uterus just screams "oh, heck no!!!"  

We need a "Uterus quivering in fear" in the emoji-section. 

 

I meant to post a scared smiley - guess my brain thought alcohol was more apropriet. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Hazelbunny

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, Hazelbunny said:

Courtney's 1 - 12 in 1 - 12 years regularly give me panic attacks! Especially if I have just been looking after my Brothers 3 youngest or my Sisters 2 under 2. My uterus just screams "oh, heck no!!!"  

We need a "Uterus quivering in fear" in the emoji-section. 

And number 11 has therapy appointments regularly on top of it all. Plus they have a garden and farm animals. I don’t know where she gets her energy. She’s not that much younger than me. 

[Hazelbunny]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And number 11 has therapy appointments regularly on top of it all. Plus they have a garden and farm animals. I don’t know where she gets her energy. She’s not that much younger than me. 

Oh gosh yes.... I forgot all that!! She is 8 months older than me... and I am exhausted after treating 10 - 15 patients and looking after 3 bunnies every day. I feel quite lazy comparing our work load... 

[CanadianMamam]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You are probably talking about Jill Rod. She did have a very small baby cage that was completely inappropriate. However I have to argue that baby cribs are basically cages. I used cribs and I’m not ashamed at all. But I have to say that baby cages for the most part aren’t a big deal to me. Pack and plays and cribs are cages that keep kids safe. Now over using them is an issue. Kids shouldn’t be put in their baby cages 24/7. 

We used to call the pack and play "baby jail". 

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

We used to call the pack and play "baby jail". 

If you think about it, we basically harness babies in one place quite often. In car seats, they are strapped in and can’t move. In cribs, they are caged. In high chairs, they are strapped in and can’t get out. In strollers, they are strapped in sand can’t leave. In baby Bjorne, the baby is literally stuck to you. We are constantly putting our babies in places where they can’t move. And it’s fine. As long as you are listening to the baby’s cues and meeting their needs. But yeah, babies are like little demanding prisoners. 

[neuroticcat]

On 8/30/2022 at 7:17 PM, CanadianMamam said:

Kendra is only 24I. If she keeps having babies 16 months or so apart, she will have 16 kids by 40. My uterus hurts just thinking about that. 

 

Tori's spacing is actually tighter than Kendra's and gets tighter with each pregnancy. But with her current place, she will also reach 16 by 40. 

I do hope the clotting disorder will slow her down. 

I do too for obvious reasons but also because heparin/lovenox are not awesome to be on long term. So, a couple of pregnancies/postpartums, okay, but long term usage causes osteoporosis. So if she's pregnant/nursing for several decades that's a big problem.

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

And number 11 has therapy appointments regularly on top of it all. Plus they have a garden and farm animals. I don’t know where she gets her energy. She’s not that much younger than me. 

Abbie would say that Jesus extends his hand and raises you up to have many children and be an excellent mom, whatever that means, as some sort of spiritual superpower. So, um, hate to break it to you, but you are obvs doing it wrong.

[neuroticcat]

On 9/1/2022 at 10:44 AM, Mama Mia said:

What an interesting way to plan a big family!  I could see how if you really wanted a bunch of children, but wanted to spare some of the complete constant baby/toddler/ dependent overwhelm that would be a good way to go. Able to enjoy each set more. But not so huge a break that you’re starting all over with nearly grown kids. 
 

 

 

We have a three kids close together, an almost six year gap, and three close together again. I love it. It's very fun to have a passle of teens and then revisit the little kid stage - and very fun to see their interaction together. Also, having the gap was huge for recovery and rest helps remind me how fast the little kid years go. 

However, it is WILD to kind of parent alongside two generations. Parenting methods change over a decade, for real, so it's bizarre to have those mom-conversations with other moms of toddlers now vs. fifteen years ago, and I find the generation gap really interesting. Anyway, biggest takeaway: being the old mom blows my mind sometimes. I'll meet a mom at the park and be chatting and realize: you could have been playing at this park as a kid when I was here with my oldest one - haha.

 

21 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Do we know which clotting disorder?

They have MTHFR plus one of the Factor whatevers. Pretty sure Erin talked about it more specifically during one of their pregnancies (I have FVL, and I remember it's not that, but it's similar.) I believe they all take heparin/aspirin during pregnancy/postpartum.

[monkeyrocks71]

14 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

If you think about it, we basically harness babies in one place quite often. In car seats, they are strapped in and can’t move. In cribs, they are caged. In high chairs, they are strapped in and can’t get out. In strollers, they are strapped in sand can’t leave. In baby Bjorne, the baby is literally stuck to you. We are constantly putting our babies in places where they can’t move. And it’s fine. As long as you are listening to the baby’s cues and meeting their needs. But yeah, babies are like little demanding prisoners. 

But, generally, normal parents do it 1) for their baby's safety (ie a pack and play while you're cooking or showering; a crib so baby doesn't roll out of a bed at night) or 2) to allow baby to be close to them while they are doing stuff (I had two baby carriers, and a stroller, but mostly used the carriers because they were easier for me AND let my kid stay close to me.  

Of course, my baby also had plenty of time to be in my arms and on the floor (sans blanket training), and then crawl/toddle around the house - we baby-proofed the few things that were dangerous to baby or had value to us, and eventually taught her not to touch certain things, but that requires a slight amount of effort/inconvenience on the parents' part (and in Jill's case, removal of four metric tons of tchotchkes), and we know fundie parents aren't doing that when they can just cage or smack a kid.  

I also had to pump (I pumped until 27 months) and my baby seemed to learn early on that sometimes Mama can't meet your (non-safety-related) needs immediately, and learned to entertain herself while the pump was whirring.  But I was generally pretty attentive to her needs and cues, so, I do think she understood on some level that she might have to wait a few minutes for XYZ, but I would get to it soon.  Whereas fundie kids just have to basically fend for themselves with absolutely no adult guidance pretty much from birth.  Or at least as soon as they lose that newborn baby smell.  And so they grow up with zero sense of security, because even their most basic needs aren't met a lot of the time: food?  Better eat quickly if you want enough.  Clothing that fits?  Maybe today, probably not tomorrow.  Sincere parental love?  You are but a number. Protection from your brother's molestation?  We all know how that turned out - I almost wonder if that's why Jill Dillard found Danger America so hard; she couldn't trust her parents to take care of her, even in the most egregious of situations, so, why should she trust Derrick to take care of her in this very-strange-to-her, foreign country? Whereas my kid, at eleven, was literally wandering around a town in Croatia with a pack of soccer-playing neighborhood kids (I called them the "neighborhoodlums") for hours with zero cares in the world  by the second day there (it is a very safe town, I knew multiple adults in that town, and my kid knew where the airbnb was- it would be like a kid wandering around a small suburb here in the US)

Edited September 3, 2022 by monkeyrocks71
added thoughts

[Jackie3]

On 8/30/2022 at 6:49 PM, CanadianMamam said:

And both their mothers gave birth into their 40s, so they could be ferile for a long time..Kendra does have the age advantage though but it is terrifying how many children they could each have. 

There are many things that could slow them down. Secondary infertility, job loss, maternal illness, child illness or disability, too exhausted to have sex, etc.

I doubt they will continue at this clip. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Jackie3

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 9/2/2022 at 8:34 PM, neuroticcat said:

They have MTHFR plus one of the Factor whatevers. Pretty sure Erin talked about it more specifically during one of their pregnancies (I have FVL, and I remember it's not that, but it's similar.) I believe they all take heparin/aspirin during pregnancy/postpartum.

Interesting. I have Von Willebrand’s Disease where I have trouble clotting and bleed a lot.

For a full glimpse of how messed up my childhood was, feel free to read my old posts about how my parents abused me despite *knowing* about the bleeding disorder 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Father Son Holy Goat

[Bastet]

10 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

There are many things that could slow them down. Secondary infertility, job loss, maternal illness, child illness or disability, too exhausted to have sex, etc.

I doubt they will continue at this clip. 

My concern is that QF ideology would only allow infertility to stop them. 

[SorenaJ]

I’m still curious what happened with Jana and Stephen. None of my business, but I’m still curious. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

58 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

I’m still curious what happened with Jana and Stephen. None of my business, but I’m still curious. 

I also wonder if they might get back together one day. Sometimes fundies do that. I remember when Sarah Mally’s sister Grace had a break up with her boyfriend and then suddenly they were back together the next year. 

[Idlewild]

Jana has been completely quiet on social media for months. Maybe she is seeing someone and doesn’t want it to be spoiled by publicity. (Until it’s a done deal and they can cash in on the inevitable YouTube channel).

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I think Jana will be married one day, after everyone else is married. When there’s no one left to protect, she will leave.

[ven]

2 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I think Jana will be married one day, after everyone else is married. When there’s no one left to protect, she will leave.

She can only leave through marriage. If the kids are all out of the house, she can start caring for jim en meech.

[Idlewild]

She chooses to live by a belief system that means she can only leave by marriage- or so we assume.

She is in her 30s, has some skills and friends. She could leave if she wanted to. There may be any number of reasons why she stays - she has a good life, she feels her parents owe her for the unpaid work on the show, she’d miss her family too much.  Given how little we know about her I think it’s wrong to assume she thinks her parents are abusive and her siblings need protection. 

[Cam]

1 hour ago, Idlewild said:

She chooses to live by a belief system that means she can only leave by marriage- or so we assume.

She is in her 30s, has some skills and friends. She could leave if she wanted to. There may be any number of reasons why she stays - she has a good life, she feels her parents owe her for the unpaid work on the show, she’d miss her family too much.  Given how little we know about her I think it’s wrong to assume she thinks her parents are abusive and her siblings need protection. 

I agree. I don’t buy into this idea that Jana stays to protect. The family dynamic changes each time a sibling marries and moves out. The youngest is now 12. There’s a lot more room in the house and Pest is incarcerated so the girls don’t have to avoid the creep predator convicted pedophiliac when he visits.
 

I don’t know what Jana’s deal is but tend to lean towards her liking that being the oldest female sibling gives her some authority and clout. Getting married would mean a brand new headship where she had to be under a new and different man’s authority, starting from ground zero. She’s had years of being the wind beneath JB’s wings and she’s comfortable there, likes the stature it brings and doesn’t want to give it up. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Cam

[Meggo]

On 9/1/2022 at 11:58 PM, Audrey2 said:

Whether or not they feel like they have energy to fool around with their husbands, fundy girls tend to be raised that they need to be joyfully available to their husbands. I'm guessing most don't even question whether they have energy or not because they were taught to think of Jesus than others than yourself.

Ooof. So you are a leaky, weepy mess, covered in all manner of baby stuff (granted I don’t know about the leaks but definitely covered in baby stuff) and ugh. Seriously- foreplay at that part would be an uninterrupted shower, a hot coffee and a nap (my request for Mother’s Day was exactly that..)

[ifosterkittens]

Jana grew up with Josh and knew (at least to some extent) the nature of his crimes when he was a teenager. She saw how her parents handled it, and she may have worried what secrets other parents are hiding about their sons, or the secrets those guys are hiding.

I don't know how large Jana's friend circle was when she was younger, but I bet she saw wives in her church that were miserable, stuck in crummy marriages. As she got older she may have had a friend or two allude or divulge to the challenges of their marriages that made it less appealing.