Dillards 91: Increments of Change or Not?

[marmalade]

Jill deleted the post on IG, but it's still on FB.

[SassyPants]

2 minutes ago, HeartsAFundie said:

I hope Michelle didn't get to Jill while she was recuperating from surgery and convince her to change her mind about public school.  Mother or not, I wouldn't put it past her, especially since Jill is in such a vulnerable position.    

Someone needs to ask Cousin Amy the real story.  We know Amy will eventually spill.  

And FWIW, I also noted on the FB page that Jill has remained friendly/or is once again friendly with Sierra.  She thanked Sierra for sending her some chocolate as a get-well present.    I really hope Jill isn't backsliding.  It would be a shame for all of them.  

I keep thinking of why they might decide to homeschool:

Crappy schools in their new hometown?
Red shirting Sam, and not wanting to have one homeschooled and one a PS schedule + new baby?Too sick to deal with PS?

Maybe Cathy is doing the homeschooling? Doesn’t she have some sort of education/college counseling background? 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I hate for Jill to feel ashamed if she’s gone back to homeschooling. Mostly because she only has three kids and she can probably homeschool Sam and Izzy better than if she had 7 kids already. If she is homeschooling, maybe its only for this year due to a lot of transitions. I doubt Jill will always homeschool the kids. Especially when it comes to the older grades like middle and high school.

[HeartsAFundie]

10 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I keep thinking of why they might decide to homeschool:

Crappy schools in their new hometown?
Red shirting Sam, and not wanting to have one homeschooled and one a PS schedule + new baby?Too sick to deal with PS?

Maybe Cathy is doing the homeschooling? Doesn’t she have some sort of education/college counseling background? 

I don't think the Siloam Springs School District is as good as the Rogers school district, the prior one.  From what I understand, Rogers is one of the top districts in Arkansas.  And the school Israel was attending won awards.  The Siloam Springs schools are also grouped by grade.  Only two grades in each school up to grade 8 and then the high school for 9-12.   So Sam would be in the PK-K school and Izzy in the 1-2 school.  Maybe it was too much logistically and also could be a reason to redshirt Sam, especially with all the new changes at once. 

Maybe they are going to public or private school in Stilwell OK where Derick works, if only for convenience.  It certainly would be easier for Jill and for Freddy if Derick took the kids to school.  But Jill has always been so open on social media about everything so the sudden radio silence on this issue speaks volumes.    

I do believe Cathy has a college degree but I am unsure as to what it's in.         

[FloraDoraDolly]

23 hours ago, HeartsAFundie said:

Per the Siloam Springs School District website, the schools are grouped by grades. One school for PK-K; one for Grades 1-2; one for Grades 3-4; one for grades 5-6; one for grades 7-8 and the high school for grades 9-12.  So Izzy (Grade 2) and Sam (K) would be in different schools too.  

https://www.siloamschools.com/en-US

 

The suburb next to mine has schools arranged like this. A lot of families with 2 or more kids send their kids to private schools because it's a pain in the butt to never have your kids in the same school together. One of my friends said it took her less time to drive to and from the private school ten miles away than it did to pick up Kid A at School #1 and then wait for the bus to bring Kid B home from School #2.

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

 

The suburb next to mine has schools arranged like this. A lot of families with 2 or more kids send their kids to private schools because it's a pain in the butt to never have your kids in the same school together. One of my friends said it took her less time to drive to and from the private school ten miles away than it did to pick up Kid A at School #1 and then wait for the bus to bring Kid B home from School #2.

You would think bussing would be a nightmare too. 

[CanadianMamam]

44 minutes ago, HeartsAFundie said:

I don't think the Siloam Springs School District is as good as the Rogers school district, the prior one.  From what I understand, Rogers is one of the top districts in Arkansas.  And the school Israel was attending won awards.  The Siloam Springs schools are also grouped by grade.  Only two grades in each school up to grade 8 and then the high school for 9-12.   So Sam would be in the PK-K school and Izzy in the 1-2 school.  Maybe it was too much logistically and also could be a reason to redshirt Sam, especially with all the new changes at once. 

Maybe they are going to public or private school in Stilwell OK where Derick works, if only for convenience.  It certainly would be easier for Jill and for Freddy if Derick took the kids to school.  But Jill has always been so open on social media about everything so the sudden radio silence on this issue speaks volumes.    

I do believe Cathy has a college degree but I am unsure as to what it's in.         

This would drive me crazy. That split is bonkers. All 3 of my kids would be in seperate schools. That might be enough to make me home school too. Especially if there was an issue with start times (I.e hanging to drop them all off at once or huge gap). 

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I hate for Jill to feel ashamed if she’s gone back to homeschooling. Mostly because she only has three kids and she can probably homeschool Sam and Izzy better than if she had 7 kids already. If she is homeschooling, maybe its only for this year due to a lot of transitions. I doubt Jill will always homeschool the kids. Especially when it comes to the older grades like middle and high school.

Homeschooling gets a great deal of shade on this board, which I understand given the type and style of homeschooling (or lack thereof) in some fundamentalist families.

But homeschooling can be a valid educational option. 

Our local schools went through all the pandemic upheaval and now are understaffed. There seems to be a collective mental health crisis percolating. IEP evaluations, much less accommodations, are backed up. In the older grades, teachers are (rightly) focused on the most at-risk kids which means the more average and above average students are not being challenged. We’ve just had one of the worst school shootings (Uvalde), at an elementary school no less and with clear screw ups on the part of law enforcement. School board meetings are a fiasco with conspiracy theories and parents demanding book bans. It’s an uneasy time and many of our schools are not okay.

I wouldn’t want my young children split between campuses. 

I know her history and that people hope she is moving away from her upbringing.

But I wouldn’t assume much about her personal beliefs just because she may be homeschooling. 
 

 

 

 

[SassyPants]

Take this with a grain salt… my kids were always commuter students as they attended RC schools. We finally had a school bus when my youngest went to HS. We commuted these kids up to an hour away into larger cities for schools. I wonder if the Dillards researched school districts when they were choosing a new home town? You’d think they would have put the boys education/school district high on the list when making the choice where to relocate-

3 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

Homeschooling gets a great deal of shade on this board, which I understand given the type and style of homeschooling (or lack thereof) in some fundamentalist families.

But homeschooling can be a valid educational option. 

Our local schools went through all the pandemic upheaval and now are understaffed. There seems to be a collective mental health crisis percolating. IEP evaluations, much less accommodations, are backed up. In the older grades, teachers are (rightly) focused on the most at-risk kids which means the more average and above average students are not being challenged. We’ve just had one of the worst school shootings (Uvalde), at an elementary school no less and with clear screw ups on the part of law enforcement. School board meetings are a fiasco with conspiracy theories and parents demanding book bans. It’s an uneasy time and many of our schools are not okay.

I wouldn’t want my young children split between campuses. 

I know her history and that people hope she is moving away from her upbringing.

But I wouldn’t assume much about her personal beliefs just because she may be homeschooling. 
 

 

 

 

Putting her beliefs and the possible school districts and scheduling aside, I don’t think any Duggar is qualified to homeschool children. Sorry, Jill’s own education was poor, very poor, because her parents did not believe in education at all. Derick is a highly educated man. He has to know Jill is not qualified to educate anyone. 

[noseybutt]

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

 

Putting her beliefs and the possible school districts and scheduling aside, I don’t think any Duggar is qualified to homeschool children. Sorry, Jill’s own education was poor, very poor, because her parents did not believe in education at all. Derick is a highly educated man. He has to know Jill is not qualified to educate anyone. 

Yes her education was poor. That doesn’t mean she hasn’t been self educating since then.

I have seen parents with limited formal education do well with homeschooling, especially the younger years, because of their willingness to continue to learn and improve themselves.

Shrug.

Teaching her own child to read and do basic math is a much more limited skill set than teaching an entire classroom full of children.

 

 

 

 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

There is another option. Online schooling. It’s possible that Izzy is doing online schooling with the help of Jill. 

[HeartsAFundie]

29 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

There is another option. Online schooling. It’s possible that Izzy is doing online schooling with the help of Jill. 

That makes perfect sense.  Between the move, Freddy's birth, Jill's surgery, and the local public school system setup, online school is a very viable and doable option.  Especially since many local school systems are still allowing students to join in online on a regular or hybrid basis.  

I agree that Derick would not settle for Jill to be in charge of the boys' education at this point, but for the boys to be in online classrooms with qualified educators and Jill on call if needed would be an excellent compromise.     

I know it's different on the college level; but I did online school to get my MBA and I absolutely loved the experience.          

[marmalade]

Based on the video in which Jill was making soup and said Sam was helping, but there was no sign of Izzy, I think they may be redshirting Sam. 

Izzy could have been at school elsewhere, or doing online school or homework in his room. Jill didn't acknowledge him at all.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

2 hours ago, marmalade said:

Based on the video in which Jill was making soup and said Sam was helping, but there was no sign of Izzy, I think they may be redshirting Sam. 

Izzy could have been at school elsewhere, or doing online school or homework in his room. Jill didn't acknowledge him at all.

A lot of kids with summer birthdays get redshirted so that makes sense.

[4boysmum]

I homeschool my children, and I feel compelled to point out that homeschool does not have to mean everyone sits at home around the dining room table and kids are limited to learning things their mother can impart directly.  I know the Duggars are the origin of the "SOTDRT" expression.  I don't think much of their approach to homeschooling.  I would hope that Jill has seen by now that there is a lot of room to improve on that method, and if she has used public school before she must be willing to consider different options.  But a parent does not need to have a strong background in every subject to homeschool successfully IF they are committed to seeking out resources.  Most homeschoolers I know are signing their kids up for classes outside the home, using online classes... even having teens take courses at the local community college.  Homeschooling doesn't mean all the learning takes place at home or that parents provide all the instruction.  But it sure is nice to be able to switch math textbooks as soon as you notice that the one you're using is not a good fit for your child, instead of being stuck with whatever your school district spent lots of money to purchase for everyone.  Or stop and spend an extra few weeks on something that your child is really enthusiastic about.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, 4boysmum said:

I homeschool my children, and I feel compelled to point out that homeschool does not have to mean everyone sits at home around the dining room table and kids are limited to learning things their mother can impart directly.  I know the Duggars are the origin of the "SOTDRT" expression.  I don't think much of their approach to homeschooling.  I would hope that Jill has seen by now that there is a lot of room to improve on that method, and if she has used public school before she must be willing to consider different options.  But a parent does not need to have a strong background in every subject to homeschool successfully IF they are committed to seeking out resources.  Most homeschoolers I know are signing their kids up for classes outside the home, using online classes... even having teens take courses at the local community college.  Homeschooling doesn't mean all the learning takes place at home or that parents provide all the instruction.  But it sure is nice to be able to switch math textbooks as soon as you notice that the one you're using is not a good fit for your child, instead of being stuck with whatever your school district spent lots of money to purchase for everyone.  Or stop and spend an extra few weeks on something that your child is really enthusiastic about.

I just wonder if this is the best time…did she red shirt Sam meaning he needed more time and academic or social attention? A new baby in the house after being rather far removed from that schedule/ structure, a recent move and likely reduced support system, an unforeseen illness requiring surgery and a husband launching a new career in what is known for being a stressful industry. 
I hope the boys are in online or a Co-op type school. The timing of this is awful-

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, 4boysmum said:

I homeschool my children, and I feel compelled to point out that homeschool does not have to mean everyone sits at home around the dining room table and kids are limited to learning things their mother can impart directly.  I know the Duggars are the origin of the "SOTDRT" expression.  I don't think much of their approach to homeschooling.  I would hope that Jill has seen by now that there is a lot of room to improve on that method, and if she has used public school before she must be willing to consider different options.  But a parent does not need to have a strong background in every subject to homeschool successfully IF they are committed to seeking out resources.  Most homeschoolers I know are signing their kids up for classes outside the home, using online classes... even having teens take courses at the local community college.  Homeschooling doesn't mean all the learning takes place at home or that parents provide all the instruction.  But it sure is nice to be able to switch math textbooks as soon as you notice that the one you're using is not a good fit for your child, instead of being stuck with whatever your school district spent lots of money to purchase for everyone.  Or stop and spend an extra few weeks on something that your child is really enthusiastic about.

This.

Homeschooling as done by the families discussed on this board is not representative of what homeschooling looks like on the ground anymore than fundamentalist American Christianity represents Christianity as a whole. It’s a subset.

[HeartsAFundie]

1 hour ago, 4boysmum said:

I homeschool my children, and I feel compelled to point out that homeschool does not have to mean everyone sits at home around the dining room table and kids are limited to learning things their mother can impart directly.  I know the Duggars are the origin of the "SOTDRT" expression.  I don't think much of their approach to homeschooling.  I would hope that Jill has seen by now that there is a lot of room to improve on that method, and if she has used public school before she must be willing to consider different options.  But a parent does not need to have a strong background in every subject to homeschool successfully IF they are committed to seeking out resources.  Most homeschoolers I know are signing their kids up for classes outside the home, using online classes... even having teens take courses at the local community college.  Homeschooling doesn't mean all the learning takes place at home or that parents provide all the instruction.  But it sure is nice to be able to switch math textbooks as soon as you notice that the one you're using is not a good fit for your child, instead of being stuck with whatever your school district spent lots of money to purchase for everyone.  Or stop and spend an extra few weeks on something that your child is really enthusiastic about.

I agree with you and if homeschooling is done right, it sounds like it can be a wonderful experience.   There are so many resources people can now draw on to make homeschooling successful.   The people that phone it in are giving the dedicated ones who truly believe in the homeschool movement a bad name which is unfair.   I think that's where most folks on here, including myself, are concerned-that many of the families we discuss aren't doing their kids any favors in the education department and are harming their kids, not helping them.  

A former fundie-lite supervisor of mine and his wife homeschooled their two children from K-12.  Like you and your counterparts, they took homeschooling very seriously and were 100% dedicated to it.  One room in their home was designated as a classroom with the wife as the teacher and they connected with other homeschooling families to form their own co-ops and go on biweekly field trips.  The adults traded off teaching duties in the co-op with those who were more skilled or enthusiastic about teaching a certain subject.  They also complied with the local school district, had their children take the annual standardized tests for each grade and to ensure social skill development enrolled their children in after-school activities, including baseball and gymnastics.   Both of my former supervisor's children ended up graduating from college and last I heard are productive citizens. 

As a testament to its success, another co-worker pulled her daughter out of 7th and 8th grade and joined this particular homeschool co-op for two years.  She had nothing but good things to say about it.  She particularly liked how her daughter was able to fully explore topics she was interested in and how many field trips they went on.  And many places such as art museums and national parks have special programs and curriculums designed for homeschooling and will work with families and co-ops.            

 

[displayname]

I was homeschooled in the way people snark on here about so naturally I got a lot big bad feelings about it, but I can acknowledge there are right ways to do it and that there are kids that thrive in that environment. At her kids ages I wouldn't be too worried about her teaching her boys. Izzy is in what? 2nd grade? 3rd at most? Jill hasn't struck me as someone who takes her kids' educations lightly and she's proven that with actions and not words. So I'm not going to worry unless I actually see concerning behavior. 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, noseybutt said:

This.

Homeschooling as done by the families discussed on this board is not representative of what homeschooling looks like on the ground anymore than fundamentalist American Christianity represents Christianity as a whole. It’s a subset.

ABSOLUTELY…and that’s why I specifically referenced the Duggars and their ability or motivation? Willingness? Interest?  to thoroughly homeschool beyond the Bible, perpendicular and bankruptcy-

Remember 13 YO James working on his multiplication tables?

Or when Jill who was 13 at the time, expressing her delight that baby #15 (Jackson born in 2004) was a boy and therefore there would be 10 boys and 5 girls, making the final number 50/50.  WHAT? 

[Travelfan]

Jumping into the homeschool discussion to say that the scariness factor of it really varies by state. I’m in Missouri and I homeschooled my son for 4 years (3rd-6th grade) and at no point did anyone ever contact me or ask to see anything at all!  I find this incredibly disturbing!  All I did was write a letter to the school district saying I would be homeschooling and 4 years later I went to the school and told them he’d be joining again. No one, not the school or the state asked for anything in all that time. I was told the official stance was that you had to provide 600 hours of education (I can’t remember exactly how many). The first year I tried to be good about keeping track of hours/subjects in a notebook but after no one ever asked to see it I eventually stopped. Now in my case my son wanted to be homeschooled (my daughter was in public school throughout this entire time and I was a substitute teacher for the same district). I sent my son to a coop 3 days a week that did a wonderful job.  They gave home work to do at home the other 2 days and being an extremely driven person it worked great for him. Academically he was far ahead. By middle school he decided he wanted to go back to regular school. He was put in the advanced classes upon his return so I’m happy with the education he got during his coop time. Still I’m shocked and discouraged to think anyone in my state could say they are homeschooling and absolutely no one will check up on them at any time!  That is scary!  My kids are both in college now and thriving and you’d never be able to tell which was homeschooled for a few years.  Sadly that’s not the case for those who are homeschooled the way the Duggars were/are. 

[noseybutt]

25 minutes ago, Travelfan said:

Jumping into the homeschool discussion to say that the scariness factor of it really varies by state. I’m in Missouri and I homeschooled my son for 4 years (3rd-6th grade) and at no point did anyone ever contact me or ask to see anything at all!  I find this incredibly disturbing!  All I did was write a letter to the school district saying I would be homeschooling and 4 years later I went to the school and told them he’d be joining again. No one, not the school or the state asked for anything in all that time. I was told the official stance was that you had to provide 600 hours of education (I can’t remember exactly how many). The first year I tried to be good about keeping track of hours/subjects in a notebook but after no one ever asked to see it I eventually stopped. Now in my case my son wanted to be homeschooled (my daughter was in public school throughout this entire time and I was a substitute teacher for the same district). I sent my son to a coop 3 days a week that did a wonderful job.  They gave home work to do at home the other 2 days and being an extremely driven person it worked great for him. Academically he was far ahead. By middle school he decided he wanted to go back to regular school. He was put in the advanced classes upon his return so I’m happy with the education he got during his coop time. Still I’m shocked and discouraged to think anyone in my state could say they are homeschooling and absolutely no one will check up on them at any time!  That is scary!  My kids are both in college now and thriving and you’d never be able to tell which was homeschooled for a few years.  Sadly that’s not the case for those who are homeschooled the way the Duggars were/are. 

I share the same unease. We have also homeschooled in a low regulation state and social meetups are interesting. Usually  in a good/aspirational way, but there have been a few what the heck moments. Stories like @displayname are too common and I would prefer some regulation.  The catch is that oversight that includes professionals who understand homeschooling would be helpful. When the oversight is only by traditional educators, then there is a desire to make it look like school-at-home which then removes the advantages homeschooling offers. IMO a good solution might be to have boards that are a combination of appointed and elected—not quite a school board but something along those lines—to provide the oversight or at least advise the districts.

[SassyPants]

I think most here can agree that fundamentalists with large numbers of kids homeschool for  these main reasons (having nothing to do with an actual well rounded or superior education):

To bathe their children in the parental belief system to the exclusion of any other (AKA brainwash)

To drum out natural curiosity and inquisitiveness (AKA discourage learning about the world outside the home).

An inability to conform to a school (Or several schools) rules, regulations and time schedule. (AKA parents are unable to to get the kids where they need to be, on time, and ready for a school day). God the lack of organization, motivation and get up and go baffles me. It’s the same reason many can not work a steady job- or relate to life in the world where most of us live and flourish-

Edited September 20, 2022 by SassyPants

[noseybutt]

10 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I think most here can agree that fundamentalists with large numbers of kids homeschool for  these main reasons (having nothing to do with an actual well rounded or superior education):

To bathe their children in the parental belief system to the exclusion of any other (AKA brainwash)

To drum out natural curiosity and inquisitiveness (AKA discourage learning about the world outside the home).

An inability to conform to a school (Or several schools) rules, regulations and time schedule. (AKA parents are unable to to get the kids where they need to be, on time, and ready for a school day). God the lack of organization, motivation and get up and go baffles me. It’s the same reason many can not work a steady job- or relate to life in the world where most of us live and flourish-

Yes. This is a good summary of the concerns and why oversight, in general, would be a positive development.

That said, Jill has taken steps away from her childhood indoctrination, takes her kids to the library and has previously enrolled them in school (suggesting curiosity and outside exposure  is fine with her), and she doesn’t have a large number of children.

We also don’t know the family’s long term plan. I could see Derrick wanting to move on to bigger pastures as soon as he gets a few trials under his belt and it may be that they are thinking a few years and then another move. Who knows. (I find it odd that the DA’s office allows him to reside out of state.)

 

 

 

 

 

[neuroticcat]

If they are homeschooling, it could be because their oldest had a negative experience in kindergarten. I had never considered homeschooling, and after my oldest went to K it became an option b/c the school wasn't able to meet his individual needs. 

My kids were back in traditional school before COVID. After that time, things in our state were such that we returned to homeschooling for a year. My kids didn't want to go back to the classroom after. I kind of don't blame them as everything is still a pretty hot mess where I'm at.

Not saying that's the case for a 1st or 2nd grader, but it's a reality. There's also plenty of other reason for new wave homeschoolers post-COVID - more online/accessible options, they found themselves enjoying it, fear of school violence, etc.

However, people with conservative christian backgrounds (even if they're not ATI, it seems the Dillards are conservative) typically have protection/sheltering as a primary motivation.