Dillards 91: Increments of Change or Not?

[Bobology]

I wondered about "mama" being Cathy so I checked her IG and as of yesterday she had no posts about it. Siloam Springs schools started a week ago so maybe Michelle, if she is "mama", is actually dropping off or picking up the boys. If so it's more than Kelly Bates has done for Carlin during Carlin's health issues.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Bobology
removed an errant word

[Cam]

Oh, 18 miles is nothing. I wasn’t sure if it was further. Well, that close, Michelle could easily pop over to Jill’s thru the week after the older kids have gone to school (I don’t see her at all helping out with getting them ready for school or getting them there).  Then Jill could put the baby in a stroller and the three of them could take a daily stroll. Michelle was doing some kind of walking program not long ago so maybe walking’s become her thing. 

Yeah, not sure if any of the kids put much stock in JB’s opinion when he’s out of earshot, but the wife isn’t supposed to go against her headship husband’s authority. I could see Jill and Michelle agreeing that certain subjects would be off limits to talk about making their time together friendly and amicable. 

Oh, 18 miles is nothing. I wasn’t sure if it was further. Well, that close, Michelle could easily pop over to Jill’s thru the week after the older kids have gone to school (I don’t see her at all helping out with getting them ready for school or getting them there).  Then Jill could put the baby in a stroller and the three of them could take a daily stroll. Michelle was doing some kind of walking program not long ago so maybe walking’s become her thing. 

Yeah, not sure if any of the kids put much stock in JB’s opinion when he’s out of earshot, but the wife isn’t supposed to go against her headship husband’s authority. I could see Jill and Michelle agreeing that certain subjects would be off limits to talk about making their time together amicable. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Cam

[justmy2cents]

2 hours ago, Jrodseyeliner said:

Do we know if is Michelle helping out and not Cathy?? Does Cathy have another nickname??? I wouldn’t be surprised if Cathy was there helping out 

Never heard Jill calling Cathy mama. She very deliberately mentioned “my mama” in several comments. She wants it known that Michelle was there.

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, Jrodseyeliner said:

Do we know if is Michelle helping out and not Cathy?? Does Cathy have another nickname??? I wouldn’t be surprised if Cathy was there helping out 

I think it’s likely both are helping out. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

It’s always seemed to me that Jill and Derick had most problems with JB. Yes, Michelle should be held accountable and it makes sense to outsiders Jill would be upset with her mom as well. But obviously Jill doesn’t see her like she sees her father. Maybe she blames patriarchy or maybe she just can’t handle cutting off two parents right now. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I also think JB is more angry and controlling than we initially surmised, qnd a potentially more frightening "not to be crossed" figure than Michelle. JB was decent at playing disarming country boy for the cameras during the TLC days. The trial seemed to really bring a "mask off" JB to the table.  

[patsymae]

39 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I also think JB is more angry and controlling than we initially surmised, qnd a potentially more frightening "not to be crossed" figure than Michelle. JB was decent at playing disarming country boy for the cameras during the TLC days. The trial seemed to really bring a "mask off" JB to the table.  

I agree, but I don't think Michelle is frightened of him. She always came off to me as the one who was running the show (and I also think Grandma Mary was a lot more in control of things than we got to see.) She may use the 1950s manipulative model--"the neck controls the head." I'd be very surprised if anything happened that JBoob wants to happen and Meech doesn't

[SassyPants]

In recent years, it seems we’ve seen a lot more of M and JB going their separate ways. As examples, I remember trips with JB and the kids going to WI (air show?) or M + some older kids going to visit Jinger in ÇA. *Obviously both parties could have been in both places and not photographed *

[Pecansforeveryone]

@patsymae, I agree that Michelle and Grandma Mary aren't scared of him. I think it's with his children that JB tends towards being angry and controlling. I think the extreme baby fever and dresses only were driven by Michelle. 

[Cam]

I was never, ever one to call my mother in law “mama” or “mom”. 

I agree, JB and Michelle seem to go separate ways more often these days. Things go differently when cameras aren’t filming your life on a daily basis. 

I don’t see Michelle as the true leader of the family. JB wanted all those kids same as her to prove his virility, manhood, show that he had sex with his wife often, all very important images to him. He had older daughters to raise the younger kids so having more children got him attention, a tv show and money without him having to assume daily responsibilities with them. Just a good old slap on the back, handshake and big grin from all the other fundie men when he got Meech pregnant time and again. 

I think JB handled the Josh scandals how he wanted to and Meech had to go along with what he decided whether she liked it or not and she had to display a united front with JB. I’m not excusing Meech in any way for her fundie cult participation because she embraced and proclaimed it wholeheartedly; and she knew as a female she had to uphold, endorse and worship the patriarchal views that the mens, even inept ones, have all the answers and authority and the womens just got uteruses. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Cam

[Guanabana]

Jill refers to Cathy as Meemaw (sp?).

[Mama Mia]

While there’s been friction over lifestyle issues - it seems like the biggest break in the relationship was between Derrick and JB over $$$$ and control. The rest all seemed to tumble from that. I could see Michelle and Jill enjoying spending time together when neither of their husband are around to put in their opinions.

[SassyPants]

4 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

While there’s been friction over lifestyle issues - it seems like the biggest break in the relationship was between Derrick and JB over $$$$ and control. The rest all seemed to tumble from that. I could see Michelle and Jill enjoying spending time together when neither of their husband are around to put in their opinions.

Well, those 2 items, $$ and control are precisely what JB has been shown to most worship!

[Idlewild]

It’s always been about the money. I honestly don’t think JB cared that much about dress codes, sending the kids to school etc once the kids left. He won’t approve it but if they still had the show and J&D proved to be popular- he’d just rake in the money and ignore them.

Asking for remuneration and then walking away from filming are the biggest sins in his book.

[Cam]

Money definitely was a driving factor but I think it is more nuanced than that. JB wanted full control of all the money. By holding the purse strings, he held all the power and power is what got him off. It wasn’t just that the Dillards wanted their rightful piece of the pie, it was that they dared to question the status quo and challenge JB’s authority. JB was incensed by their audacity to do such a thing. He demanded blind faith and submission. 

JB did not approve of lifestyle changes that go against fundie principles because it made him look like he was not in control of his family. Even as the children became adults and married, it seemed never to occur to him that they could or would start to do some things differently than they were taught growing up. He felt his image was being maligned and that’s what pissed him off. He thought all he had to do was lay down Duggar law “not to allow” certain things and his will would be done. For years, JB managed to squash any rebellion among the rank and file but this time  it was different. I think the word is comeuppance. JB got a comeuppance.

[Pecansforeveryone]

In the last season of Sister Wives Kody has reminded me a lot of JB with his extreme angry, controlling ways. I think there is an extreme drive for control, fame, and adulation even above money with those two. With Gil Bates, I think it is mostly about money. 

[SassyPants]

And this is how you know JB’s lust for power/control/money is pathological: he didn’t let his father or Michelle’s father control him; didn’t care that his father disagreed with HIS  choices. In fact, he printed nasty things about his father in his book. So, yes, JB definitely has an unhealthy need to control all, especially his adult offspring via the greenback. JB’s approach  lacks any sense of logic or reasoning-

[PurpleCats]

Jill reposted a video from Kristen Young.  It’s nothing conspiracy crazy, surprisingly, since she is a total nutter.  I was hoping they’d drift apart since she is so crazy.

[AussieKrissy]

2 hours ago, PurpleCats said:

Jill reposted a video from Kristen Young.  It’s nothing conspiracy crazy, surprisingly, since she is a total nutter.  I was hoping they’d drift apart since she is so crazy.

Thanks for confirming, I did wonder if that was her and was a bit sad they had not drifted apart due to her bat shit crazyness 

[neuroticcat]

On 8/24/2022 at 3:27 PM, PurpleCats said:

Jill reposted a video from Kristen Young.  It’s nothing conspiracy crazy, surprisingly, since she is a total nutter.  I was hoping they’d drift apart since she is so crazy.

I saw that KY announced her parents are starting a church. Are there not enough churches in Arkansas? While I understand that there are liturgical preferences or people are drawn to different traditions,  the arrogance of random people starting another "better" nondenom or generic baptist church is always a bit stunning.

[patsymae]

On 8/27/2022 at 3:34 PM, neuroticcat said:

I saw that KY announced her parents are starting a church. Are there not enough churches in Arkansas? While I understand that there are liturgical preferences or people are drawn to different traditions,  the arrogance of random people starting another "better" nondenom or generic baptist church is always a bit stunning.

It's a great way to avoid taxes. IIRC, the Family Research Council has church status now, or at least has declared itself a church.

[neuroticcat]

5 hours ago, patsymae said:

It's a great way to avoid taxes. IIRC, the Family Research Council has church status now, or at least has declared itself a church.

Great point. From the way Kristen preaches on her IG, I'm going to guess there's a strong vein of We Have the Truest Gospel as well.

[HeartsAFundie]

15 hours ago, patsymae said:

It's a great way to avoid taxes. IIRC, the Family Research Council has church status now, or at least has declared itself a church.

My dad used to kid around all the time and say he was going to buy a church and start his own religion-our last name and "ism" at the end.  Now I know why he joked around about it.  But it's really not funny.  When our diocese closed churches and sold the land off to private developers to build homes, I don't believe one property tax dollar was ever paid by them in these transactions.   All that lost revenue that the city/town and its inhabitants will never get.   And the diocese made huge profits in these sales.           

Edited August 29, 2022 by HeartsAFundie

[feministxtian]

I always think of all that prime VaBeach real estate that Pat Robertson/CBN owns. The city is losing all sorts of revenue there. I mean, right at 64 and Indian River Rd. That'd be some serious tax revenue if they taxed the shit out of them. 

Feeling bitchy after stupidly engaging idiots on a Christian Forums board. 

[Cam]

I think this was the thread where we discussed baby names recently (I lose track). I came across this article today from HuffPost:

* Surprising Baby Name Trends That Happened In 2021 *

- by Caroline Bologna/ September 13, 2022

The Social Security Administration’s annual list of the most popular baby names in  the U.S. is rarely shocking, with recent favorites like Liam, Emma, Olivia and Noah consistently dominating for the past several years.

But when you examine the agency’s naming data more closely, some interesting ― and even unexpected ― trends pop out. From the rise of less traditional names like Maverick and Emberlynn to the decline of old favorites like Scott and Sarah, here are 15 baby name statistics that may surprise you:

* 1. Nova is more popular than Grace

In 2021, 5,516 baby girls were named Nova, making it the 32nd most popular choice among female names. Meanwhile, Grace ranked 34th, with 5,486 newborn baby Graces.

* 2. Ezekiel is one of the top names for boys in New Mexico and Hawaii

The SSA’s data indicates the top national names, like Liam, Noah and Oliver, tend to dominate on the state level, but there are some outliers. One is Ezekiel, which ranked 53rd nationally but was the fourth most popular name for newborn boys in New Mexico and Hawaii last year.

* 3. Emberlynn is one of the fastest-rising names for girls

The name Emberlynn rose 284 places from 2020 to reach No. 961, breaking into the top 1,000 for the first time ever. This jump is likely related to the popularity of the name Evelyn, at No. 9. Evelynn, an alternate spelling, also increased in use last year ― as did Oaklynn and Adelynn.

* 4. Sincere is more popular than Scott

Despite its prominence in history and pop culture, Scott was not in the top 100. The name actually ranked 607th ― below less traditional names like Sincere at No. 600, going to 460 newborn boys in 2021. Only 455 boys were named Scott last year.

* 5. Serenity is more popular than Sarah

Serenity is a top 100 baby name for girls, with 3,038 little ones given that name in 2021. Serenity ranked 85th, seven spots above Sarah. Last year, 2,825 baby girls were named Sarah.

* 6. Willie is one of the fastest-declining names for boys

The list of declining names tends to include less traditional choices and spellings like Bentlee, Xzavier and Jaxtyn. But Willie dropped 210 places on the popularity list last year, falling to No. 1,202 ― making it the boys name with the fourth biggest decline from 2020. Willie Nelson and Willie Mays’ legacies are seemingly not living on in the world of baby names.

* 7. Legend is more popular than Max

Legend is the 118th most popular name for boys, while Max is No. 159. In 2021, 3,152 baby boys were named Legend, while there were 2,402 newborn Maxes.

* 8. Fewer than 100 girls were named Tracy, Caitlin, Gretchen or Lacy last year

In 2021, there were 67 newborn baby girls named Tracy, 85 Caitlins, 61 Gretchens and 88 Lacys. The first fell out of the top 1,000 ranking after 2004, while Lacy dropped off after 2005, Gretchen after 2008 and Caitlin after 2015.

* 9. Khloe is more popular than Kimberly

Kardashian fans might be interested to learn that the name Khloe is more popular than the name Kimberly. In 2021, 1,666 baby girls were named Khloe, making it the 176th most popular girl name. Meanwhile, Kimberly is No. 220, with 1,340 newborn Kimberlys in 2021.

* 10. Murphy is one of the fastest-rising names for girls

In 2021, the name Murphy rose 262 spots to No. 716 on the list of the most popular names for girls. Perhaps renewed interest in actor Brittany Murphy following the release of the 2021 HBO Max documentary on her boosted the profile of the name Murphy. The name Brittany also rose, though only 27 spots to No. 934.

* 11. Brynlee is more popular than Morgan

Brynlee didn’t enter the top 1,000 until 2008, and rose to No. 187 in 2021, with 1,568 baby girls named Brynlee. The classic Morgan fell to No. 205, with only 1,438 baby Morgans born last year.

* 12. And Giovanni is more popular than George

George is an iconic name in U.S. history, consistently occupying the top 10 list until the 1930s. But now it’s down to No. 134, with 2,774 baby Georges born in 2021. Giovanni, however, ranked at No. 124, with 2,987 boys given that Italian name last year.

* 13. Paisley is one of the top names in West Virginia and Mississippi

While Paisley is No. 52 in the U.S. as a whole, it was the No. 3 name for girls in the state of West Virginia and No. 4 in Mississippi in 2021.

* 14. Ozzy is one of the fastest rising names for boys

It seems hard to believe rocker Ozzy Osbourne’s name would see a big rise in 2021, long after the peak of his music and reality show fame. But the fact of the matter is that Ozzy had the fourth biggest rise on the list of popular names for boys, jumping up 336 places to enter the top 1,000 for the first time at No. 712. 

* 15. Maverick is more popular than Christopher

With 6,548 baby boys named Maverick in 2021, the name ranked 47th. That makes Maverick more popular than the classic Christopher, which ranked 52nd and went to 5,809 baby boys last year, as well as former top names like Andrew — now No. 57, with 5,570 boys in 2021 — and Charles, at No. 50 with 5,952 boys.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Cam