Dillards 91: Increments of Change or Not?

[pupper]

2 hours ago, Idlewild said:

So she should- she has a lot of redeeming herself to do for the way those women were treated. JB is a lost cause. 

Jill spent her entire childhood “helping” Michelle (and JimBob) by taking responsibility for their children. Helping Jill now is the very least Michelle can do. Several all-expense paid vacations, a slew of large gifts and a constant stream of ,”thank you for raising our children” and “we’re so sorry for your crappy education, distorted religious training and for the atrocious way we handled your molestation by your brother” would be appropriate as well.

[Cam]

Yes, really it’s all conjecture on our part. Maybe getting past the trial and conviction offered a “next chapter” between Jill and Michelle. It’s surprising JB doesn’t object to his wife helping the outcast daughter. Did Michelle insist she was going to Jill’s despite what JB wanted? Or did she go with JB’s blessing? 
 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

6 minutes ago, Cam said:

Yes, really it’s all conjecture on our part. Maybe getting past the trial and conviction offered a “next chapter” between Jill and Michelle. It’s surprising JB doesn’t object to his wife helping the outcast daughter. Did Michelle insist she was going to Jill’s despite what JB wanted? Or did she go with JB’s blessing? 
 

Perhaps she went to help out as a way to “minister” to her fallen daughter. We saw similar attitudes with the mission trip, I believe to Dominican Republic, but I may be wrong about the country.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I had my gall bladder out at age 13. I was probably the youngest patient my doctor ever had. Being female makes you more likely to have issues. But I’m betting my biggest reason for having issues was being overweight starting around age 8/9. Then being bullied every single day for it. And developing serious eating issues as a result. I didn’t like eating in front of people since I was just bullied for it. So while I was still growing, I would go all day without eating. Which I guess is also supposed to cause gall bladder issues. I started having gall bladder problems around the time I started my period and was not eating all day long. Plus I was female and fat. So all that made me a very young person to have my gall bladder removed. 

[Idlewild]

I had some issues many years ago but nothing since so I’ve not had the surgery. A doctor friend said ‘fat, fair, forty and female’ was the highest risk group! 

[Cam]

4 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Perhaps she went to help out as a way to “minister” to her fallen daughter. We saw similar attitudes with the mission trip, I believe to Dominican Republic, but I may be wrong about the country.

I don’t think ministering would go over too well with Jill and Derrick. Any kind of bait and switch tactics (“happy to help and oh by the way since I’m here…”) by Michelle is going to be met with firm resistance by the Dillards. Everyone knows where they stand. They’ve proven in many ways to JB and Michelle that life pretty much got a whole lot better when they went rogue and decided to figure out life for themselves. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Cam

[fluffernutter]

I had mine out a few months after the birth of my first-born, in my early twenties. Ugh that pain was the worst! 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

I don’t think ministering would go over too well with Jill and Derrick. Any kind of bait and switch tactics (“happy to help and oh by the way since I’m here…”) by Michelle is going to be met with firm resistance by the Dillards. Everyone knows where they stand. They’ve proven in many ways to JB and Michelle that life pretty much got a whole lot better when they went rogue and decided to figure out life for themselves. 

I hope if “ministering” is the motivation it goes over like a lead balloon, just as you predicted.

I don’t know why Jill can’t have an easy complicated pregnancy and postpartum but for some reason she just can’t. 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I hope if “ministering” is the motivation it goes over like a lead balloon, just as you predicted.

I don’t know why Jill can’t have an easy complicated pregnancy and postpartum but for some reason she just can’t. 

I really hope she stops trying. She has 3 beautiful, healthy boys. She can do so much better for her boys than her parents did for their 19. QUALITY OVER QUANTITY 

[Cults-r-us]

1 hour ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I hope if “ministering” is the motivation it goes over like a lead balloon, just as you predicted.

I don’t know why Jill can’t have an easy complicated pregnancy and postpartum but for some reason she just can’t. 

It is not uncommon to need gallbladder surgery during or after pregnancy. Also after any weight loss.

[feministxtian]

52 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I really hope she stops trying. She has 3 beautiful, healthy boys. She can do so much better for her boys than her parents did for their 19. QUALITY OVER QUANTITY 

They might try ONE more time for a girl. They do seem content with their family and I don't see them trying to be the "breeders". She's already doing better for her kids than her parents ever did. 3 kids in 7 years? Not bad. Public school, libraries, fun activities, parental interaction (and lots of it), a seemingly calm and non-chaotic life. Those 3 boys are already WAY ahead of where the Duggar kids were. Remember Jill was #4 in what? Less than 4 years? Israel had his only time, Sam had his "baby" time and I'm sure Freddie will have his baby time too. The older boys go to SCHOOL and Jill has time to soak in being a baby mom again. I believe they will continue to live a more mainstream life How conservative they stay is anybody's guess. 

[AussieKrissy]

7 hours ago, Idlewild said:

I had some issues many years ago but nothing since so I’ve not had the surgery. A doctor friend said ‘fat, fair, forty and female’ was the highest risk group! 

well I am "F ucked" then cause I am all of them lol ahhh fuck who knew.....? 

[SamanthasMom]

I wonder what if anything was said between JB and Michelle about this. Did she say she was going to help and he just left it alone? Did he encourage it or discourage it? This would not be the first family where estrangement was lessened following the birth of a new baby and/or health issues. 
 

I also wonder if the realities of Josh’s trial forced JB and Michelle to confront uncomfortable truths about the way they treated their daughter and there is some genuine desire to atone. On a more cynical note, they might just think the estrangement is bad for the shambles that is left of their ‘brand.’

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, SamanthasMom said:

I also wonder if the realities of Josh’s trial forced JB and Michelle to confront uncomfortable truths about the way they treated their daughter and there is some genuine desire to atone. On a more cynical note, they might just think the estrangement is bad for the shambles that is left of their ‘brand.’

I think it's more of the latter. I can't see JB or Meech having much self-reflection or even admitting they screwed up. I think JB may have realized that he's lost control and Meech is going to do her thing no matter how much he tries to control. 

[imokit]

6 hours ago, feministxtian said:

They might try ONE more time for a girl. They do seem content with their family and I don't see them trying to be the "breeders". She's already doing better for her kids than her parents ever did. 3 kids in 7 years? Not bad. Public school, libraries, fun activities, parental interaction (and lots of it), a seemingly calm and non-chaotic life. Those 3 boys are already WAY ahead of where the Duggar kids were. Remember Jill was #4 in what? Less than 4 years? Israel had his only time, Sam had his "baby" time and I'm sure Freddie will have his baby time too. The older boys go to SCHOOL and Jill has time to soak in being a baby mom again. I believe they will continue to live a more mainstream life How conservative they stay is anybody's guess. 

Sam's actually had only time as well.  Even if Jill has another to bring the total to 4, all her kids will get only time.

Isreal before Sam was born.  Sam's had two years of having a stay at home to himself while Izzy is in school.  And in someways its been better for him than Izzy's only time.  A toddler/preschooler is going to gain more from only time than a newborn, as he got lots of sole attention in libraries and at home without mum being distracted by a baby.  When Izzy was Sam's age, Sam was distracting mum, Jill was juggling preschooler and baby.

This baby will be home with just mum during the day as Sam starts school in the next few weeks.  Again getting multiple hours of only time and letting Jill just enjoy this one.

If she has a 4th in a year or two, that child will get only time once Freddy is in school.

The school thing and sensible spacing makes a huge difference in bonding with the children and parenting.

[HideousGreenShirt]

Well now I'm thinking about what Michelle is seeing while she's helping Jill recover. 

Is she still there when the boys go back to school? Will she help out by taking them to school drop-off so Jill can stay home with Freddie and heal from her surgery? Does Derrick leave early for work so Michelle has no choice BUT to help get snacks, school supplies and pack the boys into the car or walk them to their school? Did she take one of her other daughters with her and are they now seeing the kind of life and advantages rebellious, shunned Jill's children are getting by being out of the cult? Does Michelle see her once favoured daughter thriving and living a more  mainstream lifestyle and feel guilt or possibly anger about these changes? 

I sincerely hope Michelle is there to help out and has no other motive. 

I have been firmly in the "Michelle is checked out and has no remorse for Josh's actions/fake therapy/molestation cover up etc" camp until this point. But her lack of presence at a single court date and her travel to california and now to help Jill have me questioning her slightly. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by HideousGreenShirt
Additional thought

[nolongerIFBx]

And I was thinking Michelle's help was more like, "Hey, it's Jill (yes, your second oldest daughter. No, not Jessa, the other one, Right, the "bad" one.). I've been having some gut issues and based on what I'm seeing on Google, it kinda seems like it could be gall bladder issues. Did you have XXXX symptoms?" "Oh, sure, yes. I really tried to be content but Daddy said I should get it checked out in case it was something with the baby." "Oh, okay. Thanks for the help." Click.

[Alysabeth]

5 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

And I was thinking Michelle's help was more like, "Hey, it's Jill (yes, your second oldest daughter. No, not Jessa, the other one, Right, the "bad" one.). I've been having some gut issues and based on what I'm seeing on Google, it kinda seems like it could be gall bladder issues. Did you have XXXX symptoms?" "Oh, sure, yes. I really tried to be content but Daddy said I should get it checked out in case it was something with the baby." "Oh, okay. Thanks for the help." Click.

She said in the comments that her ‘mama’ (I’m assuming Michelle) has been taking her for walks. So Michelle has been physically helping out, to some extent at least. 

[SassyPants]

7 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

And I was thinking Michelle's help was more like, "Hey, it's Jill (yes, your second oldest daughter. No, not Jessa, the other one, Right, the "bad" one.). I've been having some gut issues and based on what I'm seeing on Google, it kinda seems like it could be gall bladder issues. Did you have XXXX symptoms?" "Oh, sure, yes. I really tried to be content but Daddy said I should get it checked out in case it was something with the baby." "Oh, okay. Thanks for the help." Click.

I’m imagining one time help too. Like she came over with one or 2 of the younger girls who entertained I and S, while Michelle held baby F and visited with Jill for  an hour. I don’t think she volunteered to run errands, cook and clean. 
 

Thinking  back to the shows, especially Counting On, I can’t recall ever seeing Michelle “helping” out the families beyond showing up during labor (some) or shortly post delivery to hold a precious blessing. Not to say she isn’t babysitting all the time, or behind the scenes Lolly  Extraordinaire, but I don’t recall that being highlighted during any of the episodes.  

Edited August 22, 2022 by SassyPants

[Cam]

How far apart are Jill and Michelle houses these days? I could picture Michelle possibly spending a night or even several. At first I thought maybe she’d take along a lost girl but JB probably nixed that idea because he doesn’t want the lost girls to see anything resembling a better or even just a different  life outside the Duggar dome. He wants none of the lost girls influenced by Jill’s lifestyle, even tho I think subconsciously, the girls are taking mental notes on how Jill is navigating the world as a wife and mother separate from her parents. 

I don’t see Michelle ever toting kids around to school, too much work and besides what if someone photographed her and posted it to social media? Plus, Michelle operates on Duggar time so she’d never manage to get the kids to school when they were supposed to be.

It does seem like Michelle’s “brand” has been that of supervising all the kids to do the work, never herself, like TLC wanted to make it look as if parenting 19 children was a breeze, put your feet up and file your nails while everything is being done to your specifications. 

It’d be nice to think Michelle goes to Jill’s and takes pride seeing her daughter doing well, admires Jill for standing up for herself. But I know some moms not even in the fundie cult who don’t think their grown, married daughters are doing things right, even tho they are. So who knows.

[Mama Mia]

22 hours ago, Cam said:

Yes, really it’s all conjecture on our part. Maybe getting past the trial and conviction offered a “next chapter” between Jill and Michelle. It’s surprising JB doesn’t object to his wife helping the outcast daughter. Did Michelle insist she was going to Jill’s despite what JB wanted? Or did she go with JB’s blessing? 
 

I think there have been occasional photos/mentions of Michelle with Jill over the past few years. The issues definitely seem to be with JB primarily. I don’t know if JB loudly objects, or  grumbles, or has resigned himself that no one else in the family is going to ostracize her.  She and her sisters all seem to at least like or give positive comments to each other on social media. And she has been seen with Jessa and Jana fairly often, plus various brothers and/or their wives. There may be some she doesn’t interact with or who are agreeing with JB ( Joe? Jed? ) - but with that many siblings, and her not attending gatherings at the big house — she likely wouldn’t have much contact with all of them regardless - so hard to tell. I am really curious as to how much the rest of the family actually cares about JB’s opinion.  As much as Michelle is awful — that’s got to be a hard emotional position to be in. 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

I think there have been occasional photos/mentions of Michelle with Jill over the past few years. The issues definitely seem to be with JB primarily. I don’t know if JB loudly objects, or  grumbles, or has resigned himself that no one else in the family is going to ostracize her.  She and her sisters all seem to at least like or give positive comments to each other on social media. And she has been seen with Jessa and Jana fairly often, plus various brothers and/or their wives. There may be some she doesn’t interact with or who are agreeing with JB ( Joe? Jed? ) - but with that many siblings, and her not attending gatherings at the big house — she likely wouldn’t have much contact with all of them regardless - so hard to tell. I am really curious as to how much the rest of the family actually cares about JB’s opinion.  As much as Michelle is awful — that’s got to be a hard emotional position to be in. 

Per Google, there are 18 miles separating Siloam Springs, AR and Tontitown, AR. Seems it would be an easy back and forth trip even if Michelle was going daily and logging an 8 hour visit.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Michelle has been hanging out with Jill and the boys the whole time. She's been to birthday parties for the boys and has seen more of Jill than JB has seen Jill. They don't necessarily post pictures or tell stories every time they meet.

I doubt Michelle feels guilty about Jill. I think she just has only 5 minor kids in the TTH and they're all relatively old so she decided to hang out with Jill. Especially Jill has the newest baby. Hanging out with a young baby who is also one of her descendants is a blessing for Michelle.

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Michelle has been hanging out with Jill and the boys the whole time. She's been to birthday parties for the boys and has seen more of Jill than JB has seen Jill. They don't necessarily post pictures or tell stories every time they meet.

I doubt Michelle feels guilty about Jill. I think she just has only 5 minor kids in the TTH and they're all relatively old so she decided to hang out with Jill. Especially Jill has the newest baby. Hanging out with a young baby who is also one of her descendants is a blessing for Michelle.

I think Michelle might get high holding a baby. Conception to age 3 months of age, Michelle Duggar actually was Mother of The Year.

[Jrodseyeliner]

Do we know if is Michelle helping out and not Cathy?? Does Cathy have another nickname??? I wouldn’t be surprised if Cathy was there helping out