Dillards 91: Increments of Change or Not?

[Father Son Holy Goat]

21 minutes ago, BemusedByFundamentalism said:

I could also see Amy being there, perhaps even together with Deanna. 

I could see a Duggar faction of Jill, Derrick, Deanna, Amy, and perhaps Austin and Joy

[Cam]

So I’m totally wrong, Joy is there. No report of Austin or Derick.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Cam

[imokit]

7 minutes ago, Cam said:

So I’m totally wrong, Joy is there. No report of Austin or Derick.

Joy being there without Austin is my biggest shock so far.  Not her being there, she was the most consistent of JBs children to be in attendance at the trial (other than the star of course), but Joy accompanied by a brother without Austin is a surprise.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

6 minutes ago, imokit said:

Joy being there without Austin is my biggest shock so far.  Not her being there, she was the most consistent of JBs children to be in attendance at the trial (other than the star of course), but Joy accompanied by a brother without Austin is a surprise.

Maybe Austin’s taking care of their kids himself, if his parents were busy. They certainly don’t want them to join the M kids in praying for Josh at the TTH.

[justoneoftwo]

Just now, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Maybe Austin’s taking care of their kids himself, if his parents were busy. They certainly don’t want them to join the M kids in praying for Josh at the TTH.

This is a good point, it can be hard when you go to people are suddenly not an option,  and they probably are not an option today

[SassyPants]

I don’t buy the childcare reasoning. There are a whole lot of Duggars who are seemingly always joyfully available  to babysit, including Michelle. 

[justoneoftwo]

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I don’t buy the childcare reasoning. There are a whole lot of Duggars who are seemingly always joyfully available  to babysit, including Michelle. 

Would you trust them today? Even if you usually did?

[SassyPants]

Just now, justoneoftwo said:

Would you trust them today? Even if you usually did?

Sure, I’d trust Jenny or Hannie.

[imokit]

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I don’t buy the childcare reasoning. There are a whole lot of Duggars who are seemingly always joyfully available  to babysit, including Michelle. 

But if I were Joy or Austin, I wouldn't want my kids being looked after with the M kids, not today when its likely that Joy's views on what she would like to happen are very different to Anna's views.

Joy's children shouldn't be babysat at the TTH if the M kids are there.

However even within the family there are other options - Jill and Amy for example.

[SassyPants]

I didn’t take into account that Joy and Austin might be estranged from the TTH

[CanadianMamam]

5 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I didn’t take into account that Joy and Austin might be estranged from the TTH

Austin looked like he had a lot of rage during the trial. I think there has definitely been some distancing. 

I didn't see any pictures if Austin at Lawson's wedding either, despite them being medicorps bros. Joy was there for surr, but Austin wasn't in any photos. 

[Mama Mia]

17 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

Austin looked like he had a lot of rage during the trial. I think there has definitely been some distancing. 

I didn't see any pictures if Austin at Lawson's wedding either, despite them being medicorps bros. Joy was there for surr, but Austin wasn't in any photos. 

Could also be something as simple as Austin is sick with Covid, or the flu, or broke his leg or just had his appendix out, or anything else where it would be difficult to attend long events where you have to sit quietly. I had a horrible hacking cough that lingered for well over a month after Covid - there’s no way anyone would have wanted me at a wedding or in a courtroom. 

[candygirl200413]

@Mama Mia Joy was reported to have left upset when discussing the victims so....

[HeartsAFundie]

Jill and Derick have responded regarding Josh's sentencing:

"Yesterday we learned that Josh was given a 151 month sentence in federal prison for his crime of CSAM. The last several weeks and months have been difficult emotionally. Yesterday was another one of those hard days. We are neither rejoicing nor disappointed by the sentence, but we are thankful it’s finally over. The Bible clearly states that God effects justice and vengeance through the governing authorities. Though some believe Josh should have received a greater sentence and still fewer believe he should have received a lighter sentence, God has carried out his vengeance today for his unspeakable criminal activity. Until now, he has yet to be held accountable to the extent necessary to cause change in his dangerous pattern of behavior. It is unfortunate, but it seems that it may take spending over a decade in federal prison, and still more on probation, for Josh to have any potential for rehabilitation to the point he can safely live in society again. Hopefully, Josh can actually begin to get treatment and begin to work toward a lifestyle where he is less likely to reoffend. If for nothing else, the notoriety of this case has hopefully contributed to the deterrence of potential offenders and will help protect children by decreasing the demand for CSAM. We continue to love Josh and his family and will be there for them however we can."

https://www.dillardfamily.com/2022/05/our-response-to-joshs-sentencing/ 

[Mama Mia]

Just now, candygirl200413 said:

@Mama Mia Joy was reported to have left upset when discussing the victims so....

Well, yes, obviously there is a lot of tension and she’s clearly distraught and some distancing/friction in the family. I just don’t see how that necessarily means it’s related to Austin not being there. I’m sure they could have gotten a friend or neighbor to watch the kids for the day, if they didn’t want them with Michelle, and couldn’t get another sibling to do it. Regular life, non related health events sometimes come up at really inconvenient times. 

[nokidsmom]

19 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

Austin looked like he had a lot of rage during the trial. I think there has definitely been some distancing. 

Have no idea why Austin wasn't in attendance yesterday and could be any number of reasons, but he seemed very, very upset while attending the trial.   Whatever he knew or didn't knew before the trial, he certainly learned some very disturbing details in attending and it showed.  

[sndral]

On 5/17/2022 at 10:03 AM, metheglyn said:

It does. But if you poke around it looks like the map is just pointing slightly wrong. From Google, the Court House, Clerk Office, and District Judge are all at 220:

 …

According to this article his job is at the clerk’s office https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2022/05/24/former-counting-on-couple-jill-derick-dillard-purchase-house-relocate-to-new-city-for-dericks-job/ however their only source is a link to Derrick’s registered bar address which I believe is also the address of the DA’s office for Adair county https://www.countyoffice.org/adair-county-district-attorney-stilwell-ok-292/ so perhaps he’s taken a job as a deputy DA, or working as a research attorney for the court. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by sndral

[Cam]

2 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

Have no idea why Austin wasn't in attendance yesterday and could be any number of reasons, but he seemed very, very upset while attending the trial.   Whatever he knew or didn't knew before the trial, he certainly learned some very disturbing details in attending and it showed.  

Reading this it makes me wonder what Austin’s interactions were like with Josh while he was courting Joy and after marriage. Did Josh give him the creep factor back then? 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Cam

[nokidsmom]

16 minutes ago, Cam said:

Reading this it makes me wonder what Austin’s interactions were like with Josh while he was courting Joy and after marriage. Did Josh give him the creep factor back then? 

I just wonder how much detail about Joshley Austin knew about back then as opposed what he might have learned later especially what was presented at the trial.   I still think that a lot of information was swept under the rug even after the molestations were known.  Even with any "creep factor" he might not have had the full picture.   Listening at the trial would have thrown any "Duggar speak" versions of the events out the window.  

[Cam]

56 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

I just wonder how much detail about Joshley Austin knew about back then as opposed what he might have learned later especially what was presented at the trial.   I still think that a lot of information was swept under the rug even after the molestations were known.  Even with any "creep factor" he might not have had the full picture.   Listening at the trial would have thrown any "Duggar speak" versions of the events out the window.  

Oh, I agree. I don’t think Austin had the full picture at all prior to the trial. I think him being a relatively new father to two young children and learning the horrible details incensed him even more. He knows the pure love he has for his children and cannot fathom how Josh could commit any of the crimes he did. What I meant by my comment is did Josh give Austin creep vibes from the beginning and then did Austin had revelations during the trial of “wow, my gut instincts about him were right, he never changed and his crimes were much worse than others were trying to make me believe”.

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Cam

[neuroticcat]

I think big developmental changes like relationships or children can alter the way one views past events. For instance, I couldn't name what I experienced as "abuse" until I had children and was able to better understand the perspective of a parent and what it would mean for a parent to do that behavior to a child. 

(I am not at all saying you have to be a parent to understand child abuse, btw). I think a personal understanding of trauma and empathy is enhanced when you have more life experiences to help you filter it. I definitely think even if 19 year old boyfriend Austin was told some things, older husband Austin with two children of his own saw it differently.

[Smee]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

What I meant by my comment is did Josh give Austin creep vibes from the beginning and then did Austin had revelations during the trial of “wow, my gut instincts about him were right, he never changed and his crimes were much worse than others were trying to make me believe”.

 

Sadly, it’s just as likely that Austin got along well with Josh and found him charismatic and fun and someone with his own young kids who could chat about it all. Maybe Austin felt shocked and betrayed and sickened to learn that the “wolf in sheep’s clothing” cannot be detected on creep vibes, that he should have trusted the factual, criminal history and not his instinctive impressions.

Most pedophiles are able to groom victims because they appear to be normal, trustworthy stand-up guys.

[ExTeach713]

It appeared to me that Joy and Austin learned some things during the trial that rocked them to the core. My suspicion is that neither of them understood the extent of what Josh did to his sisters.

I cannot even begin to imagine the pain Joy must have felt sitting in that courtroom yesterday watching her own father support her abuser and having no care at all for the victims. If that alone isn’t enough to make the kids question patriarchy, IBLP, and how they were raised nothing will.

[Cam]

Neuroticcat, Smee and ExTeach713, you all make very good points! Yes, life experiences give us so much insight. Wow, I never thought maybe Austin may have felt betrayed by Josh, but that could very well be the case. Definitely, he and Joy learned a lot during the trial and no doubt got a few more lessons on family politics and dynamics. 

[Idlewild]

In my experience as a lawyer (England) it is certainly true that major life events trigger people to reassess their experience of abuse. Hence you get adults who have recently married or had a child coming forward about things that happened to them. With men it was seen that if they had sons who started puberty this was a huge trigger.

It is certainly feasible that for example Joy, as young as she was when she married, had a child, lost a child, had a child has undergone enormous upheaval in her emotions about what happened to her. Austin may have struggled to contain his own anger. I just hope these women get the help they need.