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Theobros, Patriarchs, Dominionists, Christofascists et al.


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7 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Must admit that I got through the first episode still wondering what an "M.C." is! Having looked it up it reminds me of what the Sovereign Grace Ministry churches call small groups.

Gack! 

LEADERSHIP   Our groups are led by mature, male church members. They (along with their wives, if married) facilitate meetings and keep the group organized. They are appointed, trained, and mentored by our Pastoral Team.

Going back to the earlier posts on John MacArthur and GCC and the woman who was trying to leave her abusive husband:  The thing that struck me most involved the numerous visits from people who were enforcers for the church and whose job was to beat her down emotionally and psychologically so she'd stay with her husband. 

I can see how small group leaders and members could function as enforcers in an abusive church. 

 

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Owen Strachan is currently on an extremely dick-centric roll on twitter and is getting ratio'd HARD for this take: 

"God has staked everything on men. Strong men are the foundation of a strong marriage. Strong men are the foundation of a strong home. Strong men are the foundation of a strong church. Strong men are the foundation of a strong society. God has staked EVERYTHING on men.

Another way of saying this: Christ is the spiritual foundation of everything and men are the anthropological foundation of all these institutions. In Christ, men hold fast to--and are head of--one wife & family; men lead the church as elders; men must lead in public (Is. 3:12)."

Some great responses: 

  • I want someone to love me as much as you love strong men
  • Tell me you have made yourself an idol while clearly telling me you have made yourself an idol.
  • My absolute fave response: 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Columbia said:

Poor Owen’s going to get caught à la Ted Haggard. It’s only a matter of time. 

ITA. When someone is so publicly obsessed with sex and whoʻs having sex, you KNOW something is going on.

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  • 2 weeks later...

An accidental anti-theo bro manifesto, from my favorite local Presbyterian pastor, Jim Rigby: 

SOMETIMES THE CHURCH NEEDS TO DIE THAT LOVE MIGHT BE BORN

snip *Patriarchy needs to die. If the church will not let go of its patriarchal thought and structure, then maybe the church needs to die as well so that gender justice might be born in our day.*

Spoiler

Many young people are leaving the church for reasons Jesus might very well have agreed with.

Like Jesus, many young people don’t want to be associated with a judgmental religious hierarchy. The “product” Jesus taught was not the church but a radical and universal love that does justice. If the church wants to teach something else, then maybe love needs a new vessel anyway.

Patriarchy needs to die. If the church will not let go of its patriarchal thought and structure, then maybe the church needs to die as well so that gender justice might be born in our day.

Superstition needs to die. If the church chooses belief over honesty, then maybe the church needs to die so that truth might be born in our day.

Moralism based on ancient superstitions needs to die. If the church will not stop judging others as unworthy, maybe the church needs to die so that grace might be born in our day.

The church is not an end in itself. The church is a vessel to learn and teach radical, inclusive and universal love. If the church wants to teach something else, then maybe it is time for the church to die that love might find a worthier vessel.

 

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16 hours ago, Howl said:

An accidental anti-theo bro manifesto, from my favorite local Presbyterian pastor, Jim Rigby: 

SOMETIMES THE CHURCH NEEDS TO DIE THAT LOVE MIGHT BE BORN

snip *Patriarchy needs to die. If the church will not let go of its patriarchal thought and structure, then maybe the church needs to die as well so that gender justice might be born in our day.*

  Hide contents

Many young people are leaving the church for reasons Jesus might very well have agreed with.

Like Jesus, many young people don’t want to be associated with a judgmental religious hierarchy. The “product” Jesus taught was not the church but a radical and universal love that does justice. If the church wants to teach something else, then maybe love needs a new vessel anyway.

Patriarchy needs to die. If the church will not let go of its patriarchal thought and structure, then maybe the church needs to die as well so that gender justice might be born in our day.

Superstition needs to die. If the church chooses belief over honesty, then maybe the church needs to die so that truth might be born in our day.

Moralism based on ancient superstitions needs to die. If the church will not stop judging others as unworthy, maybe the church needs to die so that grace might be born in our day.

The church is not an end in itself. The church is a vessel to learn and teach radical, inclusive and universal love. If the church wants to teach something else, then maybe it is time for the church to die that love might find a worthier vessel.

 

Oldie here. Not the oldest, but old. I distinctly recall the day someone explained to my mid-30s self that for some people church membership was similar to belonging to a private country club.  
 

Sweet summer children, me & my family. We studied other denominations for their polity on the Sacraments, Biblical inerrancy, etc.  

For others (some, not all), church was where you went to make contacts.  See and be seen by the right people.  

There’s a general drift in USA population away from club and lodge membership.  Makes sense church membership would follow suit. 
 

Two memories, out of order but “telling:” 

* My surprise as a teen when church and synagogue leaders fought for civil rights. Oh! Church is NOT just about believing right to get to Heaven!? 
 

* The beginning of a big “aha” moment when I heard a lady’s story of her change in denominations.  She had been a “good [Denomination 1]” who did all the right things for her suburban parish.  Then her husband left her and their many children for another woman. Disappeared, essentially. 

They had almost run out of food and Ms.  Lee was panicking (this would’ve been very early 1969’s, late  1959’s, in a new suburb, still lots of woods and small farms around. 
 

She got home snd discovered bags of groceries in the kitchen.  Found out that local [Denomination 2] families had heard about her predicament and had come to the rescue. “But the clergy and the people at the [Denomination 1] Church?” she said, telling me the story. “They knew, and didn’t care.  They figured I’d failed my husband, that I was an embarrassment.  So I became [Denomination 2].”  
 

Denomination 1’s attitude has changed in the 60 years since Ms. Lee’s trauma.  Very into social charity.  But at the time? Membership meant fitting the mold, being presentable. 
 

Lots to think about, and storms bearing down. Heck.  Anyway.  

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6 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

storms bearing down

My goodness,  yes they are.  The original storm line that formed in Texas missed us but lots of injuries further north. 

Stay safe and keep your powder dry! 

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4 hours ago, Howl said:

My goodness,  yes they are.  The original storm line that formed in Texas missed us but lots of injuries further north. 

Stay safe and keep your powder dry! 

You too, my friend! 

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21 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

  ... for some people church membership was similar to belonging to a private country club.  

Mr Dress' parents moved to the very tony bedroom suburb where he grew up just after he was born.  They bought a house in the tony "right" neighborhood of very large houses; joined the private country club; his father joined the "right" civic organizations, and they cast about for a Denomination to join.

They settled on the most socially prominent and wealthiest one in town. Neither of his parents were raised in that Denomination, and neither of them ever paid more than lip service to it. even though they went every Sunday. They made a yearly contribution to the church - the "right" amount of course in line with everyone else.

Interestingly none of this belonging to the "right" church rubbed off on Mr. Dress. He's all about faith, anonymous charity, and working for social justice (evil Catholic that he converted to be). 

His brother has followed right along with the parents' example, but attends a different, but very social/rich, denomination where he lives.  Yet another way Mr Dress and BIL are completely unlike.

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John “all women submit to all men” MacArthur just keeps rolling down the hill. I wonder how many years it will be until enough of these stories pile up and not even his unquestioning lackies can look away. 
 

https://julieroys.com/john-macarthur-covered-up-pastor-sexual-abuse-witnesses-say/?fbclid=IwAR08daJ1lZX3yIi_iHAIIp5N3S4cf0gX_938jQxKafnXMTkc9Z5tXHwnLKc

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9 minutes ago, Columbia said:

John “all women submit to all men” MacArthur just keeps rolling down the hill. I wonder how many years it will be until enough of these stories pile up and not even his unquestioning lackies can look away. 
 

https://julieroys.com/john-macarthur-covered-up-pastor-sexual-abuse-witnesses-say/?fbclid=IwAR08daJ1lZX3yIi_iHAIIp5N3S4cf0gX_938jQxKafnXMTkc9Z5tXHwnLKc

How I wish I were surprised by this. 

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15 hours ago, Giraffe said:

How I wish I were surprised by this. 

The only thing that will surprise me is if he faces some accountability for everything he’s done in his lifetime, instead of dying a hero like Ravi Zacharias. 

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  • 1 month later...
4 hours ago, Howl said:

Chrissy Stroop:  

The Christian Right won’t let us solve our mass shooting epidemic   The Republican party has a white Christian nationalist vision for the US, and is stopping solutions to gun violence

She is absolutely correct and I don't see how we're going to turn things around.

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 hours ago, Columbia said:

Apparently there’s absolutely nothing that can be done. 

Yes, there are laws and laws, but at least in my state, they are being dismantled.  In Texas, a person can now open carry a fire arm with no permit and no training.  Yes, there are background checks but not if you are buying over the internet or at a gun show.  Yes, an 18-year-old can buy a rifle, including an assault rifle, but not a hand gun.  There are many police who are against these relaxed laws, because it so obviously puts them in danger. 

Not all states have red flag laws and those that do each have their own guidelines on enforcing them. 

So don't give me this bull shit that nothing more can be done.  Bethel is an idiotic twunt and that article is bullshit.  She lists laws in this state and that, a law here and there.  She doesn't make the point that in many of those states, those laws (common sense gun laws) are effective, as demonstrated by statistics.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Howl said:

Bethel is an idiotic twunt and that article is bullshit.

Concur. What would really help is a federal law mandating things like universal background checks, minimally, or the kinds of requirements that are *completely normal* for owning a motor vehicle: demonstrated competence in operating the vehicle; licensing; insurance for every vehicle; age limits or restrictions based on vision or other tests.

I'd prefer a total ban on semi-automatic weapons which have no place in the civilian world followed by confiscation or buy backs but just having gun ownership treated like owning motor vehicles, and requiring that in all states, would be a good start.

Edited by hoipolloi
Clarity
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1 hour ago, Howl said:

Bethel is an idiotic twunt and that article is bullshit.

I have her pegged to be the next Megan Basham or Allie Beth Stuckey within about five years. She’s honing that “damn your facts and figures” conservative intellectual spiel. 

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The Bethel article is really upsetting.

Basically she side swipes the mental health industry for not having values (which is to say, she misunderstands and misappropriates the James Mumford article).

Then she exalts a pastor. But oops. He died of covid.

And oh, by the way, she knows how to teach math to rural boys. Especially if they have a dad in the home.

She just does not want gun laws.

As Meatloaf sang....I would do anything for love, but I won't do THAT.

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I couldn’t find a thread for John MacArthur, though he certainly deserves his own - pastor of Grace Community, founded Master’s Seminary, fighter against social justice, guarded of Right TheologyTM. And (not sure why fundies seem totally unbothered by the arrogance of this ), he has his own trademarked Bible!

He has been getting press lately for abuse coverups and a past sermon where he publicly shamed a woman from the pulpit for not returning to her abusive pedophile husband. Also, in totally unforeseen news, he thinks slavery wasn’t that bad. 

screenshots here: 

Spoiler

11D444CC-69E8-4DD1-8788-D96F4D444315.thumb.png.de78d1dc3f1cbb408de4553e0eec1c4b.png2D4E52ED-A72F-426C-AD00-FC9090AAF94B.thumb.png.40fad047795e8a3962c7e5f695b54eee.png

It’s interesting to me that he says we don’t throw out the institution of marriage or parenting b/c of abuse so why do that with slavery. First, 🤮🤬 Second, this is so revealing to the fundie worldview that perceives wives and children as essentially slaves to a benevolent patriarch. At least they have husbands kind of view. 

Edited by neuroticcat
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Lauren Hough lays out the dangers of Christofascism/Dominionism better than almost anyone else. This is a damn 4-alarm fire.  I was thinking today that  Christofascist SCOTUS is burning it all down and returning it all to the states, who will have no stops on whatever draconian measures they want to implement. If enough reich-wing states get total control, they could pull off a constitutional convention and rewrite a constitution that ends the democratic country that we know forever. 

Jesus is coming, if they can burn us fast enough

If you think this take is extreme, remind yourself that Christofascist SCOTUS just took control of the bodies and autonomy of half the population, and more than that when you consider that in some states it will imprison physicians and anyone who helps a woman obtain an abortion. 

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12 hours ago, Howl said:

I was thinking today that  Christofascist SCOTUS is burning it all down and returning it all to the states, who will have no stops on whatever draconian measures they want to implement. If enough reich-wing states get total control, they could pull off a constitutional convention and rewrite a constitution that ends the democratic country that we know forever. 

 

I am deeply frightened for your country, and the future of democracy there. There's not much I can do from here, apart from cheer on everyone fighting the good fight leading up to the midterms. 

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On 6/24/2022 at 7:21 AM, neuroticcat said:

It’s interesting to me that he says we don’t throw out the institution of marriage or parenting b/c of abuse so why do that with slavery

The tweet that "they always see themselves as the masters, never the slave" is spot on. They have such limited imaginations and empathy.

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4 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

I am deeply frightened for your country, and the future of democracy there.

I'm live here and I'm more terrified in this moment for my country than even during the Trump years.  I think it's because during the horrible Trump years there was a possible end in sight when Trump was voted out of office.

Biden is in office now, and I think he's doing a good job in general, although there are huge forces and money being put forward to make him seem a failure. 

Manchin and Sinema have destroyed Democratic hopes to put forth an excellent progressive agenda. It's infuriating. 

 

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