Bates 30: Season 11 in the Can and Cancelled. What's UP with that?

[justmy2cents]

1 hour ago, BennettLeland said:

I did notice that Tiffany, Josie, Esther, Tori, and maybe Lawson? all acknowledged the birth of Finley but it seems to have been crickets from Carlin, Alyssa, Katie and Whitney…

Alyssa commented on Erin’s post, and Carlin commented on the Batesfam post.

I noticed that Erin didn’t have any pics with Katie at Katie’s wedding. Also Katie posted individual pics with her siblings at Christmas but none with Erin. Weird.

[nelliebelle1197]

7 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

Speculation on Reddit is that Erin and Chad are going Dillard with real therapy, distancing from family, and perhaps naming abuse as such. Seems a leap to me,  but I haven’t followed very closely. 

Someone else said that a Reddit member noticed a month ago that reruns had been pulled from UP programming. They were scheduled but different shows aired, so this may not have been as sudden as it appears or it may have been dependent on different things that only now came to light. 

That is not speculation. That is making stuff up out of whole cloth with no evidence! Erin is the one of the most religious of the daughters. And there is zero evidence of any abuse.

Oh Reddit, never change in your panicked fact free storytelling!

9 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

I'm specifically addressing series TV not other forms since that's what this is and that's how Figure 8 functions with their series that they produce.  

CF, you are talking about the old school network TV series model. It does not always work that way now, especially with reality TV and how cheap it is to produce, and everything depends on which entity retains rights. 

5 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

Alyssa commented on Erin’s post, and Carlin commented on the Batesfam post.

I noticed that Erin didn’t have any pics with Katie at Katie’s wedding. Also Katie posted individual pics with her siblings at Christmas but none with Erin. Weird.

Was already already prepping for the baby by Christmas? She has very high risk pregnancies and I would not read much into Katie’s photo posting. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by nelliebelle1197

[FluffySnowball]

5 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

That is not speculation. That is making stuff up out of whole cloth with no evidence! Erin is the one of the most religious of the daughters. And there is zero evidence of any abuse.

I wholeheartedly agree with your first sentiment. Yes, that rumor seems like it’s been made up and doesn’t sound credible. 

As for the abuse, I think we can’t say that there’s no evidence for it. We know that Gil and Kelly Jo embraced corporal punishment as a “child training method” and I’d even go further and say that their imposition of strict gender roles and their stifling homeschooling can also be defined as abusive. As parents, I’d totally say they were abusive. But it seems to me that Erin doesn’t seem to be aware as she appears to be close to her parents and to follow in their footsteps in many ways. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Is Erin’s father in law still on the board of IBLP? I just wonder if Erin knows something is gonna go down with IBLP and is trying to distance herself from it. She did leave Bates sisters boutique and seems to want her own fundie brand with Chad. 

[nelliebelle1197]

1 hour ago, FluffySnowball said:

I wholeheartedly agree with your first sentiment. Yes, that rumor seems like it’s been made up and doesn’t sound credible. 

As for the abuse, I think we can’t say that there’s no evidence for it. We know that Gil and Kelly Jo embraced corporal punishment as a “child training method” and I’d even go further and say that their imposition of strict gender roles and their stifling homeschooling can also be defined as abusive. As parents, I’d totally say they were abusive. But it seems to me that Erin doesn’t seem to be aware as she appears to be close to her parents and to follow in their footsteps in many ways. 

Understood, but that is an individual definition and there has been nothing shown that would fit a standard definition of abuse - having too many kids while poor, religious, and stupid and spanking them isn’t necessarily abusive. I get a little uncomfortable labeling such things as abuse because it boils down to a values judgment and people like the Bates probably feel the same way about how I bring up my kids. Their values may be stunting the potential of the children but I have a very difficult time equating that with the horrors truly abused and neglected children suffer. 

[Nothing if not critical]

12 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Understood, but that is an individual definition and there has been nothing shown that would fit a standard definition of abuse - having too many kids while poor, religious, and stupid and spanking them isn’t necessarily abusive. I get a little uncomfortable labeling such things as abuse because it boils down to a values judgment and people like the Bates probably feel the same way about how I bring up my kids. Their values may be stunting the potential of the children but I have a very difficult time equating that with the horrors truly abused and neglected children suffer. 

"Spanking" is abuse. There's nothing indivdual about that definition.

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Is Erin’s father in law still on the board of IBLP? I just wonder if Erin knows something is gonna go down with IBLP and is trying to distance herself from it. She did leave Bates sisters boutique and seems to want her own fundie brand with Chad. 

No, he isn't. They are down to a 3 person Board now (which can hardly be called a Board, frankly.) https://iblp.org/about-iblp/corporate-information/board-directors

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Oh Reddit, never change in your panicked fact free storytelling!

Yeah people need to stop taking stuff as fact just because they read it somewhere once.

Buffy and @nelliebelle1197 jointly won the Nobel Prize in Physics while working non-stop as supermodel crime fighters.

Just because someone says it doesn't make it true.  Although the above is totally true because I said it on the internet and NB will back me up.

It's not just reddit, it's every forum everywhere.  Don't assume something is true unless there is a verified source for something.  

 

38 minutes ago, Nothing if not critical said:

"Spanking" is abuse. There's nothing indivdual about that definition.

I see what you're saying and on a personal level I agree, but I also agree with @nelliebelle1197 that it doesn't rise to that in the minds of many and there is a difference between spanking and child abuse in the eyes of most people at least in the US.  

Not defending spanking, I think it's wrong, just saying I get what she's saying.  

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Understood, but that is an individual definition and there has been nothing shown that would fit a standard definition of abuse - having too many kids while poor, religious, and stupid and spanking them isn’t necessarily abusive. I get a little uncomfortable labeling such things as abuse because it boils down to a values judgment and people like the Bates probably feel the same way about how I bring up my kids. Their values may be stunting the potential of the children but I have a very difficult time equating that with the horrors truly abused and neglected children suffer. 

Facts we know because Bates have said it: Kelly used Ezzo method to train babies. It means let them cry and keep them hungry. Ezzo is considered abuse and children have become malnourished or have died because of it. Children were beaten, same as Duggars. Emotional abuse: Carlin wasn't allowed to be depressed because it is sinful and she had to fake joy. Financial abuse: Lawson was 13 and spent his money in groceries to feed the family. Physical abuse: boys worked at a very young age for their father, in a dangerous job with no healthcare assurance. Etc etc etc.

[Giraffe]

A light “swat” isn’t the same as someone being thrown across the room. However, abuse is abuse and it’s very easy to get into a mode of “yeah, but at least it wasn’t worse.” Abuse can always be worse. There are people out there who’ve experienced worse than what the Turpin children went through. It doesn’t mean their experience wasn’t tragic and traumatizing and awful. I’m not saying a “soft” spanking is tragic and traumatizing and awful, but I am saying - no matter how “good” the abuse is, it can always get worse.
 

What the Bates’ have gone through is still abuse and still harmful. Just because someone else has gone through worse doesn’t necessarily mean someone who’s experienced “milder” abuse isn’t struggling with effects from it years later. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Facts we know because Bates have said it: Kelly used Ezzo method to train babies. It means let them cry and keep them hungry. Ezzo is considered abuse and children have become malnourished or have died because of it. Children were beaten, same as Duggars. Emotional abuse: Carlin wasn't allowed to be depressed because it is sinful and she had to fake joy. Financial abuse: Lawson was 13 and spent his money in groceries to feed the family. Physical abuse: boys worked at a very young age for their father, in a dangerous job with no healthcare assurance. Etc etc etc.

All of that is abuse straight up.  

I keep seeing stuff about Carlin's depression lately, is this something she's talked about?  Is she getting help for it now?

[Coconut Flan]

3 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

CF, you are talking about the old school network TV series model. It does not always work that way now, especially with reality TV and how cheap it is to produce, and everything depends on which entity retains rights. 

I'm talking about actual knowledge from people in the industry.  My kids are friends with people like the production accountant we called last night to verify how it works .  His wife is a producer.  He actually laughed that a production company would produce an entire series without a contract.  No, they do not do  an entire season on spec.  It would be too expensive and just isn't done.  They have contracts for these kind of things especially ongoing series.  My daughter has reviewed these kinds of contracts.  UP isn't going to go through with this kind of thing without having the control a contract gives them control of what they want and order and Figure 8 is simply not going around producing an entire season without the backing of a contract.  

Again, single productions can and are done on spec.  That's an indie movie or what gets turned into a special, or something that gets used as a pilot for a series, or other things of that nature.  People produce things like that ALL the time trying to break into the business.  Once that's accepted/bought, then contracts are drawn up.  The industry runs on contracts.  Sometimes small operators produce things that get bought, but they're doing it at their own risk.  A long term project like BUB is not in the same ballpark at all. 

[browngrl]

3 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I would not read much into Katie’s photo posting. 

I would agree if it was an isolated thing but it is not. Erin was not at her shower and did not post any pictures of her wedding and Katie has not even mentioned Erin in quite some time. There is something going on. I'm not sure what it is but I do think it is real.

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

I wholeheartedly agree with your first sentiment. Yes, that rumor seems like it’s been made up and doesn’t sound credible. 

As for the abuse, I think we can’t say that there’s no evidence for it. We know that Gil and Kelly Jo embraced corporal punishment as a “child training method” and I’d even go further and say that their imposition of strict gender roles and their stifling homeschooling can also be defined as abusive. As parents, I’d totally say they were abusive. But it seems to me that Erin doesn’t seem to be aware as she appears to be close to her parents and to follow in their footsteps in many ways. 

Neglect is a form of abuse. I’d say in both the Duggar and Bates’s households, there was emotional, educational, physical… child neglect. No 2 parents can guide and nurture 19 children in a healthy manner.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I looked at the IBLP description of Gil Bates and I’m guessing they need to update this tidbit:

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I looked at the IBLP description of Gil Bates and I’m guessing they need to update this tidbit:

Besides that hilarious line, looks like IBLP can't afford to have someone update their website since that show was over 10 seasons ago.  

Doesn't tagalong Laura work in IBLP marketing?  Maybe less time supporting child predators and more time actually working.

[SassyPants]

12 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I looked at the IBLP description of Gil Bates and I’m guessing they need to update this tidbit:

 

Josh out, Tyler in 

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Josh out, Tyler in 

You mean J’Tyler 😉

[HereticHick]

30 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Besides that hilarious line, looks like IBLP can't afford to have someone update their website since that show was over 10 seasons ago.  

Doesn't tagalong Laura work in IBLP marketing?  Maybe less time supporting child predators and more time actually working.

Doesn't Bates in law Brandon work for IBLP doing online stuff? Why on earth didn't he update this?

[lizzybee]

If anything Erin is doubling down more and emphasizing her beliefs. In her latest youtube videos she's been harping on how she doesn't want her kids to have any screen time and how she changed up her school routine because she didn't even like them watching the Abeka videos. If I were to speculate of what could be going on there, I would suggest Erin isn't a fan of the direction BSB is going, she felt like it was taking her too much out of the home and she wants to focus on her homemaking, and that she dislikes the direction some of her younger siblings are going as they're deviating from the way they were raised. They may have had some blunt conversations that resulted in them not being on the best of terms right now. 

[Alisamer]

53 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I looked at the IBLP description of Gil Bates and I’m guessing they need to update this tidbit:

Josh is outstandingly awful. 

Also out standing in the prison yard, probably.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Josh is outstandingly awful. 

Also out standing in the prison yard, probably.

Soon....very soon.

[nelliebelle1197]

2 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

"Spanking" is abuse. There's nothing indivdual about that definition.

Not to everyone and not legally. Again, it is a value judgement. I don't spank my kids, my mom and grandparents did not believe in it, BUT in the US it is not legally abuse. I was pretty shocked when I found out a liberal, non-religious, multi-degreed friend was occasionally spanking her son. It has been a decade and I still surprised. But she is a doting, committed mom who spends more quality and quantity time with her kid than anyone I know. Was she abusive? It is hard and it is nuanced. I would never do it, I did silently judge her but on the other hand she is great mom. I think it is a harder issue than just black and white; I really have no idea how to handle the whole thing but I do know it is not the kind of thing a DFCS caseworker is going to investigate.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

17 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

DFCS caseworker is going to investigate.

No, but their Ezzo tactics do rise to that level.  Michelle advised glue sticks and flexible rulers for beating infants during blanket training.  Kelly openly praised Ezzo methods until they were both realized how bad that looked and tried to erase their statements.

I know what you're saying, but in the case of people who follow Ezzo and the Pearls we're not splitting hairs on the semantics of the word abuse.  Any mandated reporter who knows about children being beaten with plumbing line is required to report that.  

My mom spanked me once or twice a couple of swats through my clothes and she cried because it made her feel so bad.  I was certainly not physically abused.  What went on in the Bates home absolutely was though and their parenting practices should have been investigated by CPS.

Edited January 20, 2022 by HerNameIsBuffy

[Militant Fecundity]

18 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

No, but their Ezzo tactics do rise to that level.  Michelle advised glue sticks and flexible rulers for beating infants during blanket training.

I know what you're saying, but in the case of people who follow Ezzo and the Pearls we're not splitting hairs on the semantics of the word abuse.  Any mandated reporter who knows about children being beaten with plumbing line is required to report that.  

My mom spanked me once or twice a couple of swats through my clothes and she cried because it made her feel so bad.  I was certainly not physically abused.  What went on in the Bates home absolutely was though and their parenting practices should have been investigated by CPS.

Yes, I think there is a distinction between practicing and endorsing spanking as a discipline method, vs a parent who has regretfully spanked their child out of frustration.  The latter isn't *okay* but it certainly isn't calculated.  

Edited January 20, 2022 by Militant Fecundity