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Bates 30: Season 11 in the Can and Cancelled. What's UP with that?


HerNameIsBuffy

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Spanking and educational neglect are illegal where I live too. Home schooling is legal, but you have to register it, the local authority is meant to check in on you annually and they can refuse you withdrawal from school if there’s any social work or child protection issues on record. Additionally an education is defined as 

1. to prepare the children for life in a modern civilised society; and 
2. to enable them to achieve their full potential

Education is suitable if it primarily equips a child for life within the community of which he is a member, rather than the way of life in the wider country as a whole, as long as it does not foreclose the child's options in later years to adopt some other form of life if he wishes to do so”

 

none of the fundie home schooling would pass muster under these rules. 

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6 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Right. But in the area where the Bateseses  live, those things aren’t illegal. Even the evil public schools hit kids. And the Bateseses clearly receive at least enough of an education to function in society. Some of them have been to community college, or run businesses. So the cancellation can’t be because of just being on the more extreme side of the culture wars. Everyone already knows that. 

Oh yes, I absolutely agree that, sadly, those would not be reasons for UP to pull the show. I just wanted to answer another poster and emphasize that, in my view, those are not just “different values”.

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2 hours ago, HereticHick said:

I just notice that Josie posted 6 days ago that they were going skiing in Colorado "next week" (which is now). I wonder if UPtv was going to be involved in that trip, and if it is still on.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CY2slbGhdO5/

Oh no! I’m currently in Colorado for a couple of months. I would be quite uncomfortable to bump into any of them whilst I’m here. Summit County is currently under a mask mandate so masks must be worn on public transport, in cafes and restaurants, in shops etc. I hope that the Bates comply with this. I assume that Zac, Michaela, Erin, Alyssa and Tori won’t be joining them on the basis that they don’t usually go (also Erin has only just given birth to Finley).  

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1 hour ago, Jackie3 said:

This would be UP gold. They'd be delighted. The ratings would shoot up (even the evangelicals would want to see how the Bates played this). Lori Alexander loves the Bates, yet I'm sure she'd tune in happily with her popcorn to see how they handled this sin (it would be Kelly's fault).

Yeah most of the things I've seen mentioned either seem to me like 1 - not a big enough deal to scrap an already filmed season, or 2 - something that could be twisted into increasing viewership of the season, bringing in even more money (scandals get views). 

I think whatever it is, it's probably advertisers pulling out that are causing the issue. But I also think they could find enough other advertisers to fill the space if it was something super-scandalous that would get some traction with the news and therefore bring attention to the show and the network. So it's got to be something they can't spin or use for views without causing some sort of risk to the network, IMO. 

An affair, someone coming out, a secret baby, all the soap opera stuff they would love - people would tune in for that. I think it's something legally poisonous in some way. Not sure what that would be, though. 

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2 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

It won't be something that would shock the fundie audience. It will be something that would shock mainstream audience. It's the mainstream world that holds most of  the power and money.

That's my best guess also.  The decision to not show the season that has already been filmed is very hard to understand in any other terms but that execs at UP have become aware of a situation involving one or more of the Bates family that would cause the general public to be shocked.  An affair would not be enough to lead to cancellation.  Maybe there are some criminal charges that will be forthcoming. I will be checking in regularly, waiting for whatever it is to be revealed.

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There are so many Bates that if one had a scandal they could easily just cut that one member from the show. I think whatever it is must implicate the family as a whole or many many members. 

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To dump the whole family and a filmed series including expensive ratings pullers like a wedding and an overseas engagement it has to be something bigger than an affair by one of the family, wouldn’t be sufficient for drastic action.

I’m guessing there is some sort of investigation going on, and UP have been warned criminal charges are likely to follow.

 

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My bets are still on ATI details and Gil being involved high up in that org and in covering up abuse if not some form of abuse. There is nothing TV-scandalous and UP also knows that anything with a hint of CSA will make everyone remember how close the Duggars and Bates were. There is no way to spin it into a positive or edit one person out that case. It’s also possible there are decent people in charge of UP who do see how spiritually and emotionally abusive ATI is and simply don’t want to cover that up. That seems a stretch, but, I mean, I know lots of people who would have the integrity to not support such systems if they knew about them.

I also think if they were involved in hate crimes, that could pair with the Instagram video comment and make it enough for removal. All by itself the video *could* have been an opportunity to educate the Bates on TV and help them become aware. I could see TV marketers seeing opportunity there, kind of like how TLC did a very special episode on sexual abuse after Josh round 1. 

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Could it be that the production company that filmed Bringing Up Bates has shopped it around and found another network that will pay more for the rights to it?  With Duggars being off TLC, could they be interested in bringing Bates over to fill the "big wholesome family" genre, and will pay more for BUB than UP would?  

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The Bates were already on TLC, very briefly, on their own show.  United Bates of America.  I doubt TLC would be grabbing them back.  

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50 minutes ago, BangBigTheory said:

Could it be that the production company that filmed Bringing Up Bates has shopped it around and found another network that will pay more for the rights to it?  With Duggars being off TLC, could they be interested in bringing Bates over to fill the "big wholesome family" genre, and will pay more for BUB than UP would?  

They can't do that.  There are contracts in place to protect UP and Figure 8 can't shop the show unless or until UP releases it, cancels it, or the contract term expires.   That's to prevent the scenario you describe and other issues.

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11 minutes ago, clueliss said:

The Bates were already on TLC, very briefly, on their own show.  United Bates of America.  I doubt TLC would be grabbing them back.  

I'd also be shocked if Figure 8 could shop it around when UP had it in it's line up until pulled.  The network having the right to refuse to air something is one thing.  But the vendor, as it were, not being under contract forbidding it at that time would shock me.

I am curious if Figure 8 will have the right to eventually stream it and if they will.  They were the Duggar's production company for ages so we know ethics isn't something they're particularly bothered by.

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12 hours ago, Angelface said:

Oh no! I’m currently in Colorado for a couple of months. I would be quite uncomfortable to bump into any of them whilst I’m here. Summit County is currently under a mask mandate so masks must be worn on public transport, in cafes and restaurants, in shops etc. I hope that the Bates comply with this. I assume that Zac, Michaela, Erin, Alyssa and Tori won’t be joining them on the basis that they don’t usually go (also Erin has only just given birth to Finley).  

That's usually their stomping grounds with the rest of the jeans under ski pants wearing type Southern crowd 😉 I was born and raised in Avon in the (Vail) Valley about 45 minutes west of Summit. Are you there working for one of the ski resorts for the season? Godspeed if you are, I detest Vail Resorts with a firey passion. I got it from my dad who hated VA (Vail Associates, the original manifestation of VR in the late 80s and 90s) My dad moved to Avon in like 1970 when nothing was there. It's definitely changed a lot. Enjoy your winter and be careful, the resort towns are COVID breeding grounds thanks to the standard new crop of bro brahs and broettes, that come after college to party and ride with help from mum and dad since the wages are decreasing while COL is exploding. It's still home though as much as I dislike the change and I always wind back up in the Valley after awhile 🙂 

On 1/22/2022 at 11:03 AM, Jackie3 said:

Thank you for being stuck in the horror. I think it's much more important than whether Gothard prefers crunchy blonde curls. 

 

 

There can be a very legitimate reason to hone in on Gothard's preferred look in women and young girls, because it too was part of the horror, considering that he was successful in making it a de facto uniform of sorts for thousands of girls and women who were part of ATI and IBLP. No matter how you shake it, it's grooming with the girls and it's coercive and sexual harassment that ended in sexual abuse for who knows how many young women that were brainwashed into treating him like God. I think any and all examples of coercion and abusive behavior by Gothard and IBLP are equally horrific and wrong. To suggest that only some of his actions were "serious" and were "actual" abuse, while suggesting that his coercive and abusive requirements for clothing and appearance weren't, sets a dangerous standard. Men controlling the way they want their partners, wives and daughters to dress isn't just a flippant aside that doesn't mean anything because it's just girly hair styles and outfits is a dangerous precedent. I know you didn't mean it in this way, but unfortunately it's a slippery slope and it ends with men saying things like "real" rape and other ammunition for abusive and controlling men to continue their behavior by controlling language and dialogue and devaluing women's experiences.

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I do think the reason is a compound issue. What I mean is that there have been several issues (Lawson and Trace in DC, the charades game, IBLP connections, etc.) that have seemingly gone unnoticed by UP. However, the execs were probably aware and keeping track. I believe that something was or is brewing that UP felt uncomfortable with financially. UP is a small fish in the network pond. Discovery/TLC has way more money, lawyers, etc. So while I don't think it is a Josh Duggar level issue, I do think that the threshold for what UP could withstand is lower than TLC. 

From my perspective something has happened that says to UP that it is basically cheaper to scrap a season that was already shot, promoted, and mostly edited rather than face the potential financial repercussions of something we don't know about yet. 

Could it have been the charades game and racist joke? Yes, it probably could be and would be for other networks. And in terms of timing it makes sense. UP found out about the video and backlash toward the end of November. It takes a while, especially around holidays and with COVID protocols, to pull execs together to discuss. In a situation like that, it is likely that Gil, Kelly, and involved kid-adult family were called out on it. If they were feeling the pinch of sponsors and feedback, the execs might have issued a demand or even ultimatum that the Bates speak out. If the Bates refused or did not do so properly, one could see them pulling the show. However, that is a lot of speculation and if this then this to be a fully formed theory. 

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1 minute ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

 

Could it have been the charades game and racist joke? Yes, it probably could be and would be for other networks. And in terms of timing it makes sense. UP found out about the video and backlash toward the end of November. It takes a while, especially around holidays and with COVID protocols, to pull execs together to discuss. In a situation like that, it is likely that Gil, Kelly, and involved kid-adult family were called out on it. If they were feeling the pinch of sponsors and feedback, the execs might have issued a demand or even ultimatum that the Bates speak out. If the Bates refused or did not do so properly, one could see them pulling the show. However, that is a lot of speculation and if this then this to be a fully formed theory. 

I agree with at it could have been this, though the holiday delay also let the network see that there actually wasn’t much public backlash about this, at least that I’m aware of. Perhaps there was more  the story. I’m skeptical that any network has personal ethics that would draw the line for other reasons than advertiser complaints but maybe UP does. Otherwise, why would they pull it when it’s deemed to have just blown over?

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On 1/24/2022 at 10:57 AM, Alisamer said:

Yeah most of the things I've seen mentioned either seem to me like 1 - not a big enough deal to scrap an already filmed season, or 2 - something that could be twisted into increasing viewership of the season, bringing in even more money (scandals get views). 

I think whatever it is, it's probably advertisers pulling out that are causing the issue. But I also think they could find enough other advertisers to fill the space if it was something super-scandalous that would get some traction with the news and therefore bring attention to the show and the network. So it's got to be something they can't spin or use for views without causing some sort of risk to the network, IMO. 

An affair, someone coming out, a secret baby, all the soap opera stuff they would love - people would tune in for that. I think it's something legally poisonous in some way. Not sure what that would be, though. 

Would advertising execs know what this scandal is though?  If there was one?  And, no one else but those tied to the show know?  

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I think it’ll be a very big scandal. Not something said on Instagram. And I think the family is happy to play the “every thing is fine” game a la Duggars until it’s exposed. 
 

Remember a few years ago when we had a visitor that knew the Bates? I don’t remember what she said verbatim (she had left the cult) but something had come up with one of the boys being inappropriate (now of course the details slip my mind) and this girl felt it was serious but Kelly just laughed it off and said Gil was the same way. That always stuck with me. 

Edited by mstee
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So I know I’ve gotten a few WTF replies to my above haha I’m sorry to have been so vague about the Bates story. But if I’m remembering correctly, the girl who was explaining the story really didn’t give a lot of detail about what the Bates boy did that was actually inappropriate. Just stated that something had happened and that Kelly Jo made a joke about it rather than taking it seriously. And the joke was like “well Gil was always the same way too”. It was vague but for some reason it just stuck out in my mind. I think just the attitude of viewing women as objects in that society is so pervasive. 

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1 hour ago, patsymae said:

Could it be that UP is aware the documentary team is nosing around and just wants to head whatever it is off at the pass?

That's my guess.  Something unambiguously awful like sexual abuse or covering it up in way that leaves no plausible deniability or ties to actual white supremist militia or something.

UP's parent company is InterMedia Partners.  They also own Aspire, Vibe, BlackBook Media, and Soul Train Holdings all of which are marketed to African Americans.  They also own several channels marketed to various Latino demographics.

UP and it's viewers might not care about racism, but their parent company would sure take a hit if there was a white supremist scandal.

Actually, having learned that UP pulled the shows reruns 10 days after Carlin's Instagram about George Floyd maybe that was enough and the parent company dropped the hammer on UP who then cancelled at the last minute.

But then the parent company didn't care when the stuff like the confederate room was well known online for years so who knows.  Maybe they didn't bother to check, but my money is it on being something unearthed during documentary digging.

Editing to say that if it was the Insta thing then you'd think UP would have spelled out why they pulled it, not the BS that they didn't notice the kids had grown up until just now.  So who knows.

How do we not have a leak on this yet?

Edited by HerNameIsBuffy
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Saw this report linked to in Reddit. In the tax docs listed, Gil received about 5k reportable income annually early on as a board member but then nothing in recent years. I wonder if there has been embezzlement, and, if so, if Gil is complicit. Also,can I say how gratifying it is to see IBLP income drop so drastically over the years. I think they will eventually go the way of VFhttps://julieroys.com/bill-gothard-institute-faces-uncertain-financial-future/

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Also, it could be the combos of things. On Reddit someone linked to the old Bates special, and I had forgotten that Michaela literally wore the confederate flag plus, as we all know' they had the confederate wall of honor. So that could have increased attention to the racist Instagram post. 
 

Spoiler

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We shouldn’t forget that the public mindset around white supremacy, showing off the confederate flag,…. has massively changed in the last 4 years.

I highly doubt they will stumble over such stuff that also happened years ago. 

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