(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 49: Dialing More Numbers than Mommy's Robo-Calls

[Expectopatronus]

Neither Anna nor Carlin would have the ability to yell at each other. They have been trained since birth to suppress all big, powerful emotions. The two of them are probably rolling their eyes or laughing at this stupid rumour. Are they uninhibited enough to roll their eyes? Does Gothard allow that unwomanly display of distain? Scratched the eye-rolling. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

Neither Anna nor Carlin would have the ability to yell at each other. They have been trained since birth to suppress all big, powerful emotions. The two of them are probably rolling their eyes or laughing at this stupid rumour. Are they uninhibited enough to roll their eyes? Does Gothard allow that unwomanly display of distain? Scratched the eye-rolling. 

This is all hypothetical because it's based on KJ fiction, but in reality I have NO DOUBT Carlin can yell.  She's freaking loud, and even those trained fail at suppression sometimes.   

[Smash!]

On 1/22/2022 at 7:38 PM, FluffySnowball said:

I know quite a few Indonesians and study the language myself and one thing I often hear from them is that Saudi (and generally Gulfi)  money has caused many negative changes within Indonesian society during the last few decades.

With Saudi-funded schools, mosques, and even hospitals, Hanbali thought is introduced into the country and especially people from poorer backgrounds benefit from the educational and/or medical services while being sucked into such a world view that - historically speaking - is rather foreign to Islam in Indonesia. Is that an observation you’ve also made, @arareyeah? 

I remember when I first visited Indonesia 10 years ago mosques were being built everywhere and moreover in areas that weren‘t traditionally muslim.

[snickerz]

Seems about right - Anna's not upset that her husband is a disgusting pervert pedophile - she's only upset that somebody (supposedly) ratted him out.

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, mpheels said:

What @Beermeetsaid above, but also a bit a hubris that goes with being a White, heterosexual, cis gender, Christian, conservative man.

Oh, God. Please don't compare all white, straight, cis, Christian conservative men with Josh. They aren't all sadist pedophiles. What an insult to a huge group of people, a group that includes some fairly reasonable human beings. I don't' like the politics of this group, and I don't care about their sexuality, but I don't think they're all as gross as Josh.

Your race, sexuality and politics cannot predict how you'll respond in such a situation.

I listened to the audio and Josh didn't sound arrogant or conceited at all. He sounded like he was trying to tease out what the police knew. I suspect he had lots of things to hide and he was trying to find out which ones the police knew about.

I'll bet he suppresses this repugnant part of himself during most of the day, preferring to see himself as a good Christian husband and father. He probably half-believed he'd help that cop track down that evildoer.

The only time Josh's facade crumbles a bit is when he asks the cops how much they know. Then his voice sort of cracks a little. 

However, his guilt becomes clear when he says, "I'm not saying I'm guilty or not guilty. . ." No innocent person would say something like that!  Innocent people would respond more like this: "CSA! Oh my God! I  had nothing to do with that. Feel free to take a look."

[backyard sylph]

Except that it's all made up. 

I read that sub-reddit, too, replete with Katie Joy tidbits that are denounced, yet discussed in full. But generally the discussion here is on a more non-fictional track, and I still appreciate the tone that has been cultivated.

30 minutes ago, snickerz said:

Seems about right - Anna's not upset that her husband is a disgusting pervert pedophile - she's only upset that somebody (supposedly) ratted him out.

Left this out of my post, what happens if I add this way?

Okay, not bad. 🙂

Edited January 28, 2022 by backyard sylph

[clueliss]

Only popping in to point out Carline and Evan didn’t buy a car from Josh. They bought a car from Jed. Because it was on their Vlog.  It also involves a visit to Arkansas to pick up the car and a visit with joy. Joy facilitated the transaction between her brother and her best friend.

[formergothardite]

From that audio it is obvious Josh thinks he is very clever. He knew he shouldn’t talk to them, but he wanted to find out what they knew and thought he could out smart them. But towards the end it does seem like he is realizing that he is in a world of trouble and starts to sound nervous. 
 

I have no problem believing Anna is blaming everyone but Josh right now. She is going to stand by him no matter what evidence there is that he is a monster. But I don’t think she will blame Carlin. It is more likely she is blaming that one guy who has a history of assaulting a teenager. 

[Alisamer]

12 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Oh, God. Please don't compare all white, straight, cis, Christian conservative men with Josh. They aren't all sadist pedophiles. What an insult to a huge group of people, a group that includes some fairly reasonable human beings. I don't' like the politics of this group, and I don't care about their sexuality, but I don't think they're all as gross as Josh.

Your race, sexuality and politics cannot predict how you'll respond in such a situation.

I see what you are saying and I don't disagree with the first part, but the part about how race, sexuality and politics can't predict how you'll respond? I think that might be not totally the case. 

For absolute sure, a black person dealing with the police is most of the time going to respond somewhat differently than a white person. It's just the way things are. Josh could get pulled over by the cops for speeding and not have to wonder if he's going to get shot if he says the wrong thing or moves his hands in an unexpected way.

I agree with the "don't lump everyone into the same group as this perv" sentiment, but I also think Josh, by the fact he's white, straight, cis, Christian, and conservative, has a lot of privilege when it comes to dealing with authority and law enforcement and it's fair to take a look at that. It is still the case in the US that the majority of the people making and enforcing the law look an awful lot like Josh, have similar beliefs as Josh, and Josh can relate to those people more easily because of it. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Oh, God. Please don't compare all white, straight, cis, Christian conservative men with Josh. They aren't all sadist pedophiles.

She said nothing even remotely like that.  She was talking about how a certain demographic is more comfortable in such situations due to systemic power, not that they're all predators.  

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I absolutely think it is possible Anna is blaming others for Josh’s arrest and conviction. However I highly doubt she’s blaming Carlin. She is probably blaming Josh’s lawyer, the jury, the prosecution, the feds that investigated Josh, and basically anyone directly related to the trial. Carlin has nothing to do with it. That’s the thing about KJ rumors and reports. They have a tiny bit of plausibility (Anna blaming others) and then it’s taken far into fan fiction territory. 

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I see what you are saying and I don't disagree with the first part, but the part about how race, sexuality and politics can't predict how you'll respond? I think that might be not totally the case. 

For absolute sure, a black person dealing with the police is most of the time going to respond somewhat differently than a white person. It's just the way things are. Josh could get pulled over by the cops for speeding and not have to wonder if he's going to get shot if he says the wrong thing or moves his hands in an unexpected way.

I agree with the "don't lump everyone into the same group as this perv" sentiment, but I also think Josh, by the fact he's white, straight, cis, Christian, and conservative, has a lot of privilege when it comes to dealing with authority and law enforcement and it's fair to take a look at that. It is still the case in the US that the majority of the people making and enforcing the law look an awful lot like Josh, have similar beliefs as Josh, and Josh can relate to those people more easily because of it. 

There is a deep chasm between men who are capable of real crimes and other men who may enjoy the same privileges but would never commit those crimes.  Unfortunately, though the chasm is deep, it is not wide, and the decent churchgoing dad who tries to do the right thing may have many of the same superficial attributes as the not-so-decent guy next door.

Just as I get annoyed when people make negative generalizations about Hispanics, or women,  or “liberals,” white, male conservatives get annoyed at generalizations about their group.  Especially when the generalizations seem to link them to an abuse of privilege that they do not feel part of.

Personally, I am strongly opposed to the binary thinking and polarization that seems to dominate discourse in many parts of the world these days.  It is ironic that at the same time that we are trying to break away from binaries in matters of gender and sexuality, we still use binaries to define the “advantages” of the dominant group.  (Cis-gender vs everything else, for example.) 

We should definitely call-out privilege, but we should not make it seem as if having privilege is something you should feel guilty about, nor should we imply that people with privilege are more likely to commit crimes just because they can get away with them.

It is all very complicated.

[patsymae]

8 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I see what you are saying and I don't disagree with the first part, but the part about how race, sexuality and politics can't predict how you'll respond? I think that might be not totally the case. 

For absolute sure, a black person dealing with the police is most of the time going to respond somewhat differently than a white person. It's just the way things are. Josh could get pulled over by the cops for speeding and not have to wonder if he's going to get shot if he says the wrong thing or moves his hands in an unexpected way.

I agree with the "don't lump everyone into the same group as this perv" sentiment, but I also think Josh, by the fact he's white, straight, cis, Christian, and conservative, has a lot of privilege when it comes to dealing with authority and law enforcement and it's fair to take a look at that. It is still the case in the US that the majority of the people making and enforcing the law look an awful lot like Josh, have similar beliefs as Josh, and Josh can relate to those people more easily because of it. 

I'm with you. And it certainly affects how law enforcement will treat you. How many judges have excused murder because white male defendants killed a wife who was cheating on them? How many have given young white male rapists a pass because you wouldn't want to ruin their promising futures? How many white male addicts get sentenced to rehab and probation for huge amounts of coke while black people get long hard time for weed?
When my (white, male) child was getting in trouble as a teen I got my own up front and personal look at how the justice system treats different races. 

I may be going out on a limb here but I don't think too many women or nonwhite males in Josh's situation would feel like chatting up the FBI agents raiding your place would be a good move.

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, patsymae said:

I'm with you. And it certainly affects how law enforcement will treat you. How many judges have excused murder because white male defendants killed a wife who was cheating on them? How many have given young white male rapists a pass because you wouldn't want to ruin their promising futures? How many white male addicts get sentenced to rehab and probation for huge amounts of coke while black people get long hard time for weed?
When my (white, male) child was getting in trouble as a teen I got my own up front and personal look at how the justice system treats different races. 

I may be going out on a limb here but I don't think too many women or nonwhite males in Josh's situation would feel like chatting up the FBI agents raiding your place would be a good move.

Not disagreeing with most of what you say, but some of Josh’s chatting up was clearly nervous, and I sometimes succumb to the need to talk when I am nervous.  I would never be so stupid as to ask police whether they were looking for evidence of what I was guilty of doing, but I could, when stressed, try to be “friendly” just to show I wasn’t scared.

So Josh was stupid and maybe overly confident because he is male, but I think it is also a personality thing.  

[Cults-r-us]

On 1/27/2022 at 7:12 PM, snickerz said:

Seems about right - Anna's not upset that her husband is a disgusting pervert pedophile - she's only upset that somebody (supposedly) ratted him out.

I'm guessing Anna's going to stay in the anger stage of grief for a long time.

[Expectopatronus]

I agree that privilege plays a role in how people react but I also agree with people who have stated that race, gender, class etc done  necessarily mean that people will act a certain way. Case in point: an EA at a school where I worked made my life hell. For four years she attacked me, turned others against me, reported me etc. She eventually got me fired. One of friends who stated at the school mentioned to the other staff back in 2019 that I was pregnant via embryo adoption. Said EA hopped in with « oh so it’s okay for her but she would judge my daughter and her wife like crazy for using donor sperm? » My friend stated that I was excited for her daughter when I had heard she was pregnant. The EA’s response was « Oh, I always assumed that she was homophobic because she follows church teachings. Oh well. » When my friend told her that I support same sex marriage EA responded with « Well, it’s her fault I thought that way because she seems into the church ». I am cis-gendered and Catholic (it was a Catholic school) so she destroyed me based on her views. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

25 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

I agree that privilege plays a role in how people react but I also agree with people who have stated that race, gender, class etc done  necessarily mean that people will act a certain way. Case in point: an EA at a school where I worked made my life hell. For four years she attacked me, turned others against me, reported me etc. She eventually got me fired. One of friends who stated at the school mentioned to the other staff back in 2019 that I was pregnant via embryo adoption. Said EA hopped in with « oh so it’s okay for her but she would judge my daughter and her wife like crazy for using donor sperm? » My friend stated that I was excited for her daughter when I had heard she was pregnant. The EA’s response was « Oh, I always assumed that she was homophobic because she follows church teachings. Oh well. » When my friend told her that I support same sex marriage EA responded with « Well, it’s her fault I thought that way because she seems into the church ». I am cis-gendered and Catholic (it was a Catholic school) so she destroyed me based on her views. 

How did she get you fired?

[Expectopatronus]

@Bluebirdbluebell I was dealing with a student who was suicidal and therefore late getting to the classroom in which she was an EA. The teacher was fine with it and stayed with her class but the EA told the principal that I had put the grade threes at risk by not showing up and thus no adult was in the room. Even though the teacher backed me, the EA asserted that I had bullied her into supporting my side of story. The teacher felt horrible. 

[Bad Wolf]

I hope Josh doesn't have such a lenient judge.

This was this month. Apparently he was also a bishop with the LDS church.

Judicial court sentenced former assistant principal at Yerington Intermediate school to 12 to 60 months in Nevada State Prison for possession, accessing and downloading child pornography.

Accidentally posted in the JRod thread and couldn't erase it.

[imokit]

4 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I hope Josh doesn't have such a lenient judge.

This was this month. Apparently he was also a bishop with the LDS church.

Judicial court sentenced former assistant principal at Yerington Intermediate school to 12 to 60 months in Nevada State Prison for possession, accessing and downloading child pornography.

Accidentally posted in the JRod thread and couldn't erase it.

I think Josh keeps his trial judge if I remember correctly. He seemed reasonable at trial. Also there feds have really strict guidelines for sentencing. It won't be what we want but it will still be years 

[formergothardite]

7 hours ago, Cults-r-us said:

I'm guessing Anna's going to stay in the anger stage of grief for a long time.

She is probably in a combination of anger and denial and will stay there for a long time. To accept what her husband did would be to accept that she stood by a monster holding his hand and taking his calls. That would be a hard thing for anyone to deal with. She would also have to accept that her #littleduggar dreams are dead and she will have to find a new dream. I won’t be surprised if she clings to the idea that Josh is innocent for years. 

[Bad Wolf]

Anna could also go with the "hate the sin, love the sinner" route.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

She is probably in a combination of anger and denial and will stay there for a long time. To accept what her husband did would be to accept that she stood by a monster holding his hand and taking his calls. That would be a hard thing for anyone to deal with. She would also have to accept that her #littleduggar dreams are dead and she will have to find a new dream. I won’t be surprised if she clings to the idea that Josh is innocent for years. 

I'm not sure she thinks he's innocent.  JB and M don't, otherwise their official statement would have referred to the injustice.  It didn't, they know he did this and I'm not sure she can suspend disbelief in the face of the family accepting he did what he did.

I believe they are infuriated he was charged, that they should have been able to handle it in house.  I also don't know they think it's any or much worse than legal porn, I don't for a second believe they see this as horrifying as it is or that he's much different than any other lust filled man.

But I have a hard time believing she truly thinks he didn't do this.  I hope I'm wrong because that makes them much, much worse....but except for flashes of desperate denial I can't see how she can disbelieve the facts whilst living with the Duggars.

[Idlewild]

Anna sat through the whole trial- if she had any doubts about what CSA material is then listening to the horrendous description should have dispelled them.

I still have no idea why Justin was there (other than his new mummy, Hillary, wanting to fangirl the Duggars) but his grinning and thumbs up for the cameras shows me he still doesn’t understand the gravity and horror of CSA, in which case he needs to grow up. 

[socalrules]

I think the family knows exactly what Josh is and what he is capable of doing. I would put money on the fact that there have been other incidents or problems caused by Josh that we are unaware of, that the family knows about. I highly doubt the molestations, Ashley Madison and the CSA images are the only things Josh has done and I am not talking just about those related to sexual abuse. This family is very good at hiding the bad behavior of its members. They will always protect their own to the detriment of others and themselves. They have likely covered for him  many times to protect their brand and this last time is the first time it was completely out of their control.

Anna may be dumb enough to be shocked by Josh’s behavior (if she believes he is guilty) but I would bet no one else in the family felt the same way. If anything, there is a reason no one other than Michelle seemed to ever have a close relationship with Josh.