(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 49: Dialing More Numbers than Mommy's Robo-Calls

[Giraffe]

9 minutes ago, Jasmar said:

Washington county Arkansas giving prisoners Ivermectin 😳

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/18/1073846967/arkansas-inmates-ivermectin-lawsuit-covid-19

 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

2 hours ago, Jasmar said:

Washington county Arkansas giving prisoners Ivermectin 😳

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/18/1073846967/arkansas-inmates-ivermectin-lawsuit-covid-19

Maybe a little de-worming will do Josh some good. 

But it's appalling that offcials would do somthing like this. 

 

[Rowan]

5 hours ago, Meggo said:

I inherited all of Grandma's knitting stuff (she did more sewing than knitting, but had a great stock of stuff). And I swear they all end up reproducing when you're not looking. 

 

Except when you need a particular sizeto start a project RIGHT NOW. Everything you can find, including on WIPs (Works in progress) are always one size too big or small. 

[Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing]

8 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I somehow own the two albums mentioned, on vinyl. Dark Side of the Moon in particular I KNOW I did not purchase, because I bought some other album at a yard sale (Billy Joel, I think) and when I got it home found Dark Side of the Moon had hitched a ride in there as well. 

All those things probably show my age. Are there things in other cultures or age groups that just seem to "show up" out of nowhere? Things nobody remembers buying, but somehow everyone has?

Yes! Sort of… I have all three of Disney’s “Aladdin” movies. But I know, I KNOW, that we borrowed the third, “Aladdin and the King of Thieves,” from someone. Went to give it back to them and they claimed that it wasn’t theirs. Still no clue how exactly we got that movie. Didn’t buy it, but it was just there.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Wolf in Sheeples’ Clothing

[molecule]

7 hours ago, Meggo said:

And I swear they all end up reproducing when you're not looking. 

 

My husband and I refer to my yarn balls as Tribbles. 

[AussieKrissy]

1 hour ago, molecule said:

My husband and I refer to my yarn balls as Tribbles. 

Do they cause any trouble? funnily enough that is my fav ep in ST and STDS9

 another cool name would be pygmy puffs (harry potter)

[Expectopatronus]

10 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

My sister had that!  Talk about a blast from the past, I had forgotten that ever existed.  We also had the Dianetics paperbook in the basement and I still have no idea how that got there.  

Stupid question: what is/was Danetics? 

[KSmom]

10 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Ha, yes!  Every single person I knew as a kid had a copy of Frampton Comes Alive.  I think they came with the homes and there was some legal requirement to hold on to it.

When my husband sorted and organized our albums a couple years ago we somehow had 3 copies of Frampton Comes Alive! Maybe we each had one and then they got together and procreated. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

4 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Maybe a little de-worming will do Josh some good. 

But it's appalling that offcials would do somthing like this. 

 

And they think they’re ahead of the game.

Quote

Just days after the lawsuit was filed, a post on Karas Health Care's Facebook pagesigned by "Dr. Rob and Team" said: "Inmates aren't dumb and I suspect in the future other inmates around the country will be suiing [sic] their facilities requesting same treatment we're using at WCDC-including the Ivermectin."

 

[waltraute]

7 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Thankfully they are two different people so my love of Captain Miller and the guys at the 12th precinct can remain intact.

I had a crush on Hal Lindsay as Barney Miller back in the day. Amazon only has the first 2 seasons streaming and I'm this close to purchasing the complete DVD set since I don't have any of the channels that carry the show. I'm determined not to buy any DVDs however, as I am trying to streamline my life. 

[AnywhereButHere]

43 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

Stupid question: what is/was Danetics? 

My mom had a copy, but I never actually read it (I tried - I would read almost anything, but this was odd), so someone else may have a better answer for you. From what I understand, it was a mental health/therapy/self-help book written by L. Ron Hubbard. He was a Scientologist and science fiction writer, which pretty much covers Dianetics…

Edited January 19, 2022 by AnywhereButHere

[Jinder Roles]

Raised Baptist, we weren't particular about versions. ESV and NIV were most common in my churches. There was even a Jameikan Nyuu Testament (New Testament in Jamaican patois) released recently. It is sometimes read in my church - though more for joking and cultural purposes than studying scripture. 

I went to a Methodist high school and we were required to have the Good News Bible for religion education class. 

Using KJV only was definitely one of the biggest indicators of being more fundie when I was growing up.

[Alisamer]

24 minutes ago, AnywhereButHere said:

My mom had a copy, but I never actually read it (I tried - I would read almost anything, but this was odd), so someone else may have a better answer for you. From what I understand, it was a mental health/therapy/self-help book written by L. Ron Hubbard. He was a Scientologist and science fiction writer, which pretty much covers Dianetics…

L. Ron Hubbard wasn’t a Scientologist. He INVENTED Scientology. Made it up. Wrote it into books, like Dianetics, which were heavily marketed and advertised as “self help”. He then came up with the rest of it, and started charging tons for classes for people to learn it - and voila he had a religion and zillions of dollars. 
Dianetics was the first step into Scientology, back in the early days, I think. 

[livinginthelight]

9 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

There was also a copy of the Late Great Planet Earth in our basement, which I need to google as I have no idea what that was about.  But it was on the shelf near the Dianetics book...but my mom wasn't organized enough for that to mean anything.

Just googled that book and it's co-written by a guy named Hal Lindsey which I confused with Hal Lindsay and couldn't figure out why the hell Barney Miller was writing books about end times?

 

My church youth leader was into the Late Great Planet Earth, and got a bunch of us reading it and believing that we really were in the end times based on Hal Lindsay's particular interpretation of various verses. Talk about conspiracy theories.. we were all convinced we were holders of some special knowledge. This was the early 70s, and the events were all supposed to happen by the 80s, because everything was supposed to happen within a generation (40 years) of Israel becoming an established nation. So by 1988. Obviously nothing happened and the book faded into obscurity.

The Late Great Planet Earth seems to me to be one that paved the way for the Left Behind series.

Edited January 19, 2022 by livinginthelight

[Cam]

From Wikipedia: : “Dianetics a set of ideas and practices regarding the metaphysical relationship between the mind and body created by science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard. Dianetics is practiced by followers of Scientology and the Nation of Islam (as of 2010).”

“Dianetics was originally conceived as a branch of psychiatry, which Hubbard would later despise when various psychoanalysts refused his form of psychotherapy. Though it is presented as a form of psychological treatment, Dianetics, and its core concepts including auditing and engrams, have been rejected by psychologists and other scientists from the outset and are unsupported by credible evidence.”

***

As a young adult breaking free from a highly dysfunctional family, I tried to remember what was the name of a book I’d noticed a lot of buzz about while I was growing up that was supposed to help transform lives. I finally came up with Psycho-Cybernetics, which I bought and read and which offered useful insight to help me move forward to a much better life. To this day, tho, I wonder if the original book I was thinking of was Dianetics. I do not think they are alike in philosophy. 

[from Amazon book description: Cybernetics (loosely translated from the Greek): “a helmsman who steers his ship to port.” Psycho-Cybernetics is a term coined by Dr. Maxwell Maltz, which means, “steering your mind to a productive, useful goal so you can reach the greatest port in the world, peace of mind.”]

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Cam

[Meggo]

9 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Do they cause any trouble? funnily enough that is my fav ep in ST and STDS9

 another cool name would be pygmy puffs (harry potter)

Mine TOTALLY cause trouble. 

Especially when I was just a baby knitter and would rip off labels of yarn all willy nilly. Some of it I remember basically what it is but some I'm like "um... teal yarn... made of ... something?" And then I curse myself for not keeping the label. Also - if anyone wants to find the three balls of (different shades of) red yarn I have (according to ravelry) - that'd be swell cuz I want to make my dad a hat for Christmas (planning ahead, I'm the worlds slowest knitter) and I can't find any of them. 

[SassyPants]

8 hours ago, Alisamer said:

L. Ron Hubbard wasn’t a Scientologist. He INVENTED Scientology. Made it up. Wrote it into books, like Dianetics, which were heavily marketed and advertised as “self help”. He then came up with the rest of it, and started charging tons for classes for people to learn it - and voila he had a religion and zillions of dollars. 
Dianetics was the first step into Scientology, back in the early days, I think. 

Did all this happen in the 70’s? I think I remember seeing Hubbard’s photo and a promotion for the book advertised on the city buses in my town. All the parents acted as if this was the beginning of the end! 

[GiggleOfGirls]

For about a decade, years ago, I volunteered at a huge (several acres) rummage sale from the time I was about 12 years old, mostly in the books and vinyl records section, and one year I was in charge of the mental health/health section of books as well as the religion section (among other sections less relevant to my story)

 

The person in charge of fiction kept putting all the L Ron Hubbard stuff in my sections and I kept moving them back to fiction. Every day 😅 So many Hubbard books… eventually the fiction person gave up and only brought me the Scientology books which I allowed to stay in the religion section. 

 

The number of Al-anon books we had was always staggering and I stuck those between the religion and health sections. 
 

That was my favorite volunteer job ever. If we hadn’t moved away I’d still be doing that every year!

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Did all this happen in the 70’s? I think I remember seeing Hubbard’s photo and a promotion for the book advertised on the city buses in my town. All the parents acted as if this was the beginning of the end! 

I think the book first came out in 1950? But I was born in 74 and remember commercials for it (and his revised editions and sequel or something) on TV all the time through the mid 80's at least. It was vague and mystical and had an erupting volcano or something on it. I remember being intrigued but not enough to want to actually read the books! There was nothing in the advertising about it being scientology, or related to a religion or church, or anything like that if I remember correctly. It seemed to be implying the book held the key to a mental health breakthrough or something, like if you read it you'd know the secret to using your whole mind and you'd be happier and life would be great. It was vague enough that no matter what your issue you'd wonder if this book might help you.

I really think especially by that point it was just a far-flung recruiting tool to bring in more money.

[Snowless]

On 1/17/2022 at 2:05 PM, smittykins said:

I just realized that I made a mistake.  The Bible that Grandma got me was The Way, not The Book.

 

That’s one of my dad’s Bibles!  Looks very ‘70s.  I’ll have to look a little more into that version.

[arareyeah]

I'm still amazed that there are many versions of the bible. Is different denominations will use different bible? (Pardon me for asking, as a Muslim we only have 1 version of the Quran for whatever denominations/branches. How we interpret them however, is of course can be very different)

[Alisamer]

43 minutes ago, arareyeah said:

I'm still amazed that there are many versions of the bible. Is different denominations will use different bible? (Pardon me for asking, as a Muslim we only have 1 version of the Quran for whatever denominations/branches. How we interpret them however, is of course can be very different)

I think it can be by denomination, or by church even. There are just SO many translations, and it's a collection of so many different documents from so many different time periods. There are even whole "books" that are left out of some versions but included in others. (The Apocrypha, is what I'm thinking of. Not in any Bibles I've ever had except one from a religion class in college.) It seems pretty settled now, but in early days it was a huge thing to even figure out which documents get included and which don't. And even now new sources are being found occasionally, with earlier versions of parts of the Bible. 

Despite some really dumb people seeming to think Jesus himself sat down and turned his MAGA hat backward and wrote the whole thing out in Middle English, it's actually a collection of writings, letters, stories and legends, some written by contemporaries of the events, some written hundreds of years later from oral histories or documents. And of course before the printing press was invented, every book was hand written. One person spells something wrong once and it could get passed down through the ages. 

I personally think most fundies prefer the King James Version because it's language is flowery and opaque enough they can twist it to mean what they want. No matter that other translations might make better sense, use older or more accurate sources, or be otherwise more accurate to the source material. 

[Antimony]

Josh's lawyers have filed a post trial motion (available on Court Listener) that largely focuses on Caleb Williams and the Defense's apparently inability to call him as a witness. There's...a lot...and Caleb Williams is also convicted of having sex with a minor (with an unknown age but between 13 and 17) when he was 24. Gross. The file is...long but here are my thoughts and observations from it.

1. At one point, Williams tells the Government that he found "more passwords" but they relate only to Jed and Josiah's social media. He does not mention passwords for the work at the car lot. However, how genuinely stupid does one human have to be to look at this case and think, "Hm, definitely should implicate myself as having passwords for the family accounts"? Minor kudos for like, not hiding anything from the Government, I guess, but incredible.
2. Williams may have been at the Car Lot those days? Maybe. He can't remember. There's no record except a text to Josh that he "might be able to come help out." It doesn't really discount all the evidence of Josh's phone and geotag data. 
3. Williams handed to the defense many screenshots of his texts with Josh and he often texts Josh just...random Bible verses, repeatedly and apparently earnestly. Josh leaves him on read. It looks really pathetic. Josh only responds when it's about cars or whatever. 

I don't think this will matter because we can cross reference William's timeline against the computer timeline. Here is the computer timeline;

(From Reddit) Josh downloads CSAM May 14 and May 15. Caleb Williams, in the Defense's motion, but in correspondence to the government states;

Quote

On May 11, 2019, I left Arkansas I drove to the Apple Store at the Galleria Mall in St Louis, Missouri, for an appointment to repair my damaged iPhone X Apple replaced my iPhone X and issued an email receipt acknowledging the described transaction From the Apple Store in St Louis, it looks like I travelled to my parent's home near Delavan, IL, and took the picture in their kitchen that night The next day was Sunday, which was also Mothers Day It looks like our family got together that day, and I will see if I can track any images down from that day. From May 13, 2019 - May 16, 2019, it looks like I was at my grandparent's home in Middletown, IL. There are text messages from that time in the screenshots attached On May 17, 2019, it looks like I travelled to Indiana with my family for my cousin's wedding.

This means the Defense would have to go back to the Remote Access Theory (I'm calling it RAT), which didn't fly very well in court and the Government shot down pretty well. Also, in this RAT, it implies that not only did Williams download all this, he magically did it while knowing when Josh would and wouldn't be on the computer because even if the computer was configured for the RAT with Linux, it would have shown this action on the screen. Caleb also couldn't have installed the partition because it was installed in the evening on May 11, when he would have left the state. It takes 5 hours to get from Spingdale to the Galleria Mall (is there no Apple store in all of Arkansas??) and the Galleria mall closes at 7PM. 

Anyway, Caleb also tells the Government he's a sex offender (I mean, they know, but he openly talks about it) and seems aware the Duggar defense may try to implicate him. 

Quote

If it is not helpful, please disregard it I mention my case because Josh Duggar did know some information about it, and they may try to use it or the result of that case at this trial I can also track down my final therapy report that speaks to expert analysis of my psychosexual make-up if you all want it

For fun, here are some of the texts that Caleb sent Josh in which Caleb comes off an obnoxious clinger trying to Woo Josh via Bible quotes and Josh appears not interested. They're both Scummy folks (both have sex offender charges and Caleb was at the Jan 6 Capitol riots) so let us laugh at how whack these text messages are. 

[arareyeah]

23 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I think it can be by denomination, or by church even. There are just SO many translations, and it's a collection of so many different documents from so many different time periods. There are even whole "books" that are left out of some versions but included in others. (The Apocrypha, is what I'm thinking of. Not in any Bibles I've ever had except one from a religion class in college.) It seems pretty settled now, but in early days it was a huge thing to even figure out which documents get included and which don't. And even now new sources are being found occasionally, with earlier versions of parts of the Bible. 

So it can be said different denomination/church could use very different english translations? It's really fascinating from my POV because with the Quran, the english translation will has very similar meaning with the translation in my language.

It's interesting you said that fundies like the KJV version because they're opague enough for them to twist it into whatever they want it to mean. Muslim fundies have similar thing but from the opposite spectrum: they will try to enforce whatever written as is without learning why a certain verse came out and how it should be interpreted. That, combined with their habit to pick and choose plus cutting verses to suit their narrative are dangerous.

Honestly reading this forum and learning from you guys about Christianity made me think fundamentalism in any religion is truly rotten to the core 

Edited January 20, 2022 by arareyeah
Accidentally clicked save before I finished

[Alisamer]

5 minutes ago, arareyeah said:

Honestly reading this forum and learning from you guys about Christianity made me think fundamentalism in any religion is truly rotten to the core 

This is the key to this whole forum, I think.

Here's the handy dandy graphic my church once posted about some of the many different translations of the Bible. Generally they all want to be as accurate as possible, but take different paths to get there. Like is getting each specific word translated exactly right more important, or is making sure each thought or sentence means the same as the source material (even if the words are not exact) more important? My church (Baptist, in the South, but a bit more liberal than many) if I remember correctly "officially" chose the ESV for the pew Bibles, but everyone is encouraged to use the Bible that they prefer. Our previous pastor would frequently use more than one translation to help clarify things, and even refer back to the original wording in some cases. Anyone doing a reading in church uses whichever Bible they choose. One lady always uses KJV. Others use different ones. I think my dad carries The Living Bible to church, maybe. 

You can even get Bibles that are "parallel" Bibles with multiple translations in the same book, which sounds cool - you can look up a verse and see it in multiple translations.