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Jana Duggar 15: Paying her court fine on Duggar time


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9 hours ago, fluffernutter said:

I mean, if we're admitting food loves, I enjoy a tasty tater tot casserole. A lot. 🤣 

I didn’t have high hopes for TTC but I was wrong, it is good. Only made it twice in about 3 years only because we don’t eat heavy meals generally.

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@Howl What was in the Tater Tot casserole that made it so good? The version I make includes a ton of frozen veggies but not don’t know if that is right for authentic southern casserole 

 

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6 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

SIL made a breakfast tater tot casserole when we were camping. Delicious.

My college cafeteria wasn't know for it's food (better known for the effects of the food, if you get my drift), but the one thing it did do well was the Saturday brunch casserole, where they'd take all leftover bacon or breakfast sausage, mix it with scrambled eggs and cheese, and top it with tator tots. It was probably the only full meal I'd eat the whole school year. 

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10 hours ago, Letgo said:

Jana has had a limited formal education but does have skills in sewing, gardening, building, and decorating. She can run a home and raise children. But what type of career could she have now? One that would support her fairly well, I mean.

I was reading about the US “great resignation” yesterday - there’s an estimated 3 job openings for every 2 job seekers right now. Most openings are in the service industry. They don’t require a college degree or lots of previous job-specific experience, and they are paying higher starting wages than ever. Now would be a great time for Jana to make the leap if she wanted, but it would require her to work on a fixed schedule under the supervision of someone other than mom and dad. She also would have to except a more modest standard of living for a while.

On the one hand, I can’t blame Jana for wanting to retire in her 30s. She’s already been working for 20 years. On the other hand, her current lifestyle only works because she is complicit in all the terrible things her parents do, both to her younger siblings and the world at large.

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1 hour ago, mpheels said:

On the one hand, I can’t blame Jana for wanting to retire in her 30s. She’s already been working for 20 years. On the other hand, her current lifestyle only works because she is complicit in all the terrible things her parents do, both to her younger siblings and the world at large.

Absolutely. Plus she has an army of humpers who, every time she posts anything , squeal how she should have her own show - home renovations, baking, gardening, looking smug with a takeaway coffee- all of it worthy of a TV series. That must rub off on you and you believe your own hype. Counting On became essentially money for old rope - courtship, proposal, wedding, gender reveal, birth ad nauseum- Jana probably thought her wielding a drill was worthy of at least a tv special. 
As JB only seems to give out free/subsidised housing to the married ones, she probably figures she may as well let him pay for a comfortable life. I don’t think she has much of a problem with her parents’ horrible views. 

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Since JB has supplied low to no cost houses to his married sons much like Steve Maxwell, I don’t understand why Jana shouldn’t expect AND receive the same. If Jana had a free house and was building up equity savings, with decent planning she could live independently on a lower wage income. She lives in WM land, and surely Jana is qualified for an entry level job. How about Lowes or Home Depot? If she showed up, Jana certainly could work her way up. Heck she already drives a forklift!

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We tried TTC in the past and it was not a hit. But my Mom does make a mean casserole. Her Broccoli/Cheese casserole is to die for. And she only makes it twice a year so we never get burnt out from it lol.

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2 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

We tried TTC in the past and it was not a hit. But my Mom does make a mean casserole. Her Broccoli/Cheese casserole is to die for. And she only makes it twice a year so we never get burnt out from it lol.

Mmmmm do you happen to know the recipe? I love broccoli. Especially when it's smothered in yumminess. 🤣

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55 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

Mmmmm do you happen to know the recipe? I love broccoli. Especially when it's smothered in yumminess. 🤣

It's really simple. It's frozen broccoli (we tried fresh in the past, it doesn't come out right, it gets to watery), cream of mushroom soup and shredded cheddar cheese. Then you mix Jiffy with butter so it's crumbly, crumble it over the top and bake. 

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18 hours ago, IsmeWeatherwax said:

I'm not a fan of shepherds pie, but I do make a mean cottage pie 😋

Well, a lot of Americans will call their “cottage pie” “shepherds pie” because ground or minced lamb or mutton are not exactly plentiful in our grocery stores. 😉  There was an “Irish pub” in our town that featured “shepherd’s pie” but mixed beef with the lamb meat.  A friend called them on it, and was brushed off.  I suggested they rename the dish “Shepherd’Cottage Pie” but they did not take me up on it.   Whatever you called it, it was good.

I have a recipe (that I have never tried) for “real cottage pie” that  uses sliced/scalloped potatoes instead of mashed potatoes.  Is that how you make it @IsmeWeatherwax?  

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18 hours ago, IsmeWeatherwax said:

I'm not a fan of shepherds pie, but I do make a mean cottage pie 😋

I use the term synonymously as I make mine using vegetarian ground beef rather than lamb or real beef. On -35 or colder days it really hits the spot. 

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On 1/10/2022 at 4:47 PM, Cam said:

Currently reading a good book called “The Nice Girl Syndrome: Stop Being Manipulated and Abused -- and Start Standing Up for Yourself”. Among other things it discusses the different kinds of false beliefs perpetually nice women have and one of them is: “If I Act Naive and Innocent, People Will Take Care of Me and I Won't Have to Grow Up.” This and other beliefs come about through societal conditioning, biological predisposition, familial beliefs and personal experiences.
 

Jana’s religion and family melded her into a sweet precious lil thang. She took on the role because it was the path of least resistance. Instead of marrying a man, she married the image of herself others want her to be: dependable, agreeable, passive, pretty, never acts smarter than a man, yields, facilitates, is selfless. She could have gotten married and flown the coop, but she’s something of a failure to launch. JBee and Meesh simply spun it into a positive for themselves. 
 

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Great information thank you for sharing! I generally agree but I think it's important to include she apparently once was rebellious. Joy talked about her own faith struggles that one of her brothers "helped" her get back on the path. There was a lot of talk about Josiah in the past. Jessa has a reputation, or had should I say, of being more critical, direct and less "sweet" than her sisters. Even knowing what we know now about how awful Josh was. Yet who was the only one that OfJB brought up as being "difficult" and requiring extra "training" (aka abuse) for being contrary (questioning) and not content? Jana. 

If knowing what we know now about the kids, and hearing back then that Jana was the one was the most difficult apparently, the only one of 19 kids OfJB ever brought up as being anything less than "sweet", it makes you wonder how "difficult" she was and more importantly, how it manifested. I'm sure they think questioning the whole Gothard/ATI cult, even in the most innocuous ways, not wanting all the responsibility and sistermom-ing heaped on, questioning the gender roles, the other hardline beliefs.... even if she was too young to be doing it in an ideologic way it seems her behavior was edging towards this, assuming that Jana was the worst to rebel about the only thing OfJB and OfMeech cared about, the cult and money and power.

I am making assumptions admittedly, I don't know what her rebellion manifested and what the specific difficulty was. But if ObJB and OfMeech brought up only Jana as someone who needed to be trained and corrected the most for being the most difficult, that's saying something in that family.

Today we have Jana the only SAHD in the whole gang, 31 and not married and keeping it sweet at home and pushing the party line. Nothing wrong with that, I'm 33 living with my dad who is 75 with cancer so I can care for him (and living in Hawai'i with Natives and locals multi-generation households are the norm) so that's not an issue in and of itself, but in their subculture and her own family, that's unique. There's been a lot of speculation why over the years. I'm not trying to absolve her of her many sins. You can be a victim and a victimizer, they're not mutually exclusive concepts. But it just seems to me they made sure to break Jana and it seems like it worked. That's why she's still at home, no grand plans to avoid birthing double digit babies, no secret lesbian attractions, no savior to her younger siblings especially the lost girls... those all sound nice in this fucked up world of fundies, but I truly believe the true reason is much simpler and sadder. She was broken down so much, Jana as she was is just a generic SAHD family line towing fundie just like they wanted her to become. But unlike most kids, the spark inside that made Jana Jana, was put out. I'm sure living a comfortable life so long as she toes the line, may have an impact. Things are better for her now than they were before, she may be the kind of person that values comfort over "freedom", she may truly love her parents regardless of what happened when she was younger, who knows. I'm not trying to speculate into the specifics of her psyche just that she was once singled out by her parents as the most defiant and in need of training and today she leads a comfortable life in a guilded cage and follows what is expected of her to a T. 

That makes me sad. Not fangirling her or trying to excuse the responsibility that lays at her feet for perpetuating a dangerous cult, following the misoogynistic, racist, nasty political and religious cults she does and then, along with her toxic family, "shiplapping" them all into a consumable, "sweet" Southern Mangolia-esque product that she then promotes to a broad audience, many vulnerable young girls. I still weep for the child Jana was while I hold the adult Jana responsible for perpetuating the same victimization she experienced onto so many others. Not saying she suffered worse abuse than others who escaped, she likely did not. Some people are by nature stronger, respond to different circumstances differently, etc. For whatever reason, it doesn't matter, her spark died. 

That's what sucks so much about these second and third generation fundies. They go from victims to victimizers... there's no heroes in these stories (except those that leave against all odds but they're in a different book 😉 )

Edited by zee_four
I accidentally posted my post 3 times in a row
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On 1/10/2022 at 9:56 PM, sansan said:

I didn’t have high hopes for TTC but I was wrong, it is good.

 

16 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

We tried TTC in the past and it was not a hit.

Anyone else been reading this as "trying to conceive" or just me?

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1 hour ago, zee_four said:

….[W]ho was the only one that OfJB brought up as being "difficult" and requiring extra "training" (aka abuse) for being contrary (questioning) and not content? Jana. 

If knowing what we know now about the kids, and hearing back then that Jana was the one was the most difficult apparently, the only one of 19 kids OfJB ever brought up as being anything less than "sweet", it makes you wonder how "difficult" she was and more importantly, how it manifested. I'm sure they think questioning the whole Gothard/ATI cult, even in the most innocuous ways, not wanting all the responsibility and sistermom-ing heaped on, questioning the gender roles, the other hardline beliefs.... even if she was too young to be doing it in an ideologic way it seems her behavior was edging towards this, assuming that Jana was the worst to rebel about the only thing OfJB and OfMeech cared about, the cult and money and power. …
….
Today we have Jana the only SAHD in the whole gang, 31 and not married and keeping it sweet at home and pushing the party line. ….

 … I’m not trying to absolve her of her many sins. You can be a victim and a victimizer, they're not mutually exclusive concepts. But it just seems to me they made sure to break Jana and it seems like it worked. That's why she's still at home, no grand plans to avoid birthing double digit babies, no secret lesbian attractions, no savior to her younger siblings especially the lost girls... those all sound nice in this fucked up world of fundies, but I truly believe the true reason is much simpler and sadder. She was broken down so much, Jana as she was is just a generic SAHD family line towing fundie just like they wanted her to become. But unlike most kids, the spark inside that made Jana Jana, was put out. I'm sure living a comfortable life so long as she toes the line, may have an impact. Things are better for her now than they were before, she may be the kind of person that values comfort over "freedom", she may truly love her parents regardless of what happened when she was younger, who knows. I'm not trying to speculate into the specifics of her psyche just that she was once singled out by her parents as the most defiant and in need of training and today she leads a comfortable life in a guilded cage and follows what is expected of her to a T.  …

 

You make some excellent points, and I agree about how we can’t just give Jana a pass because she was a victim. I want to focus though on why Michelle may have singled out Jana as the most rebellious and why it was so important to break her.

Jana was the first girl.  Her first playmates were the two oldest boys.  If Josh was somewhat indulged and John David was a follower, Two-or three-year-oldJana may well have wanted to be like Josh — or she may have had enough character to resist Josh’s bullying. Either would have gotten her in trouble.

Michelle wanted a daughter who would help her around the house and eventually with the younger kids.  She did not want a daughter who would challenge the supremacy of a male sibling or want to go out and play with the boys. When baby Jill begins to show a personality, Jana found herself competing with a “people pleaser” personality.  (I don’t mean this as a putdown to Jill.  My own daughter was a “people pleaser,” and was so sweet she gave me a mistaken notion of my parenting skills.) 

So Jana is heavily disciplined to be “sweet.” She is rewarded only for being helpful and putting self last.  She is compared to a younger sister who finds it easier to be “sweet” and is told to help care for the next sister (Jessa) who is also a handful but possibly gets away with things Jana could not have gotten away with because (a) Jessa is trying to compete with Jill and Jana, not with the boys, and (b) Michelle now has 6 kids and is probably pregnant with #7.  She doesn’t have that much time to notice what Jessa is up to.  We know (the later music box or jewelry box incident) that Jana and Jessa competed.  We also know that as the elder, Jana was steered to be the one who sacrificed the most.

By the time Jana was 7 she had been taught that her only value lay in being a good servant to her parents. She was left very little other option of self-expression.  If Jessa had been the first born daughter instead, it might be Jessa who was remembered as the “difficult” one.

Just a thought.

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1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

Jana and Jessa competed.  We also know that as the elder, Jana was steered to be the one who sacrificed the most.

By the time Jana was 7 she had been taught that her only value lay in being a good servant to her parents. She was left very little other option of self-expression.  If Jessa had been the first born daughter instead, it might be Jessa who was remembered as the “difficult” one.

Its interesting in that my perception is that Jessa was also thought of as a difficult one as child.

Josh was the good one (even after he wasn't good, he somehow remained the golden boy). JD seems to somehow have been the 1st lost child, despite being joint 2nd kid.  Jill the good one.  Jinger the little follower.  Jana was wild.  Jessa has also been described as difficult.

Of those 6 kids.  Jana and Jessa seem to have stayed closer to their parents beliefs.  Josh - is in Jail.  Jill is openly critical using birth control. Jinger while getting on with her family was using birth control and wearing pants within minutes of marriage.  (Its in her and Jeremy's book that they deliberately waited a year before getting pregnant with Felicity).  JD is quiet but found Abby himself  not semi arranged like the others (even though she's from a fundy family and a stay at home mum, she has a nursing qualification, they also notably have a single two year old and no 2nd pregnancy yet).

Jana meanwhile remains the enforcer at home.  Jessa is married, skirts only in public and seems to be the only one of the 6 filling her quiver (Josh also filled a quiver but clearly doesn't believe, so doesn't count).

The ones who were viewed as the most difficult, and thus likely got the most parental discipline and brain washing are the most faithful adults.  The quieter ones who were perceived as better behaved are the ones with more independent thought now.

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5 hours ago, indianabones said:

 

Anyone else been reading this as "trying to conceive" or just me?

I thought it as I was typing it. After my infertility journey and being in so many online groups, I had to retrain TTC for my Fundie Snark. 

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@EmCatlyn I always use mashed potato on top of mine, but Im sure it would taste just as nice with scalloped, and changes it up a bit,  my mother used to put slices of tomato on top of the mash, its really nice!

@Expectopatronus I use beef mince to make it because of my sons health, but my Quorn cottage pie is amazing! Finding the OXO "no beef" oxo cubes has really livened it up!

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11 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Well, a lot of Americans will call their “cottage pie” “shepherds pie” because ground or minced lamb or mutton are not exactly plentiful in our grocery stores. 😉  There was an “Irish pub” in our town that featured “shepherd’s pie” but mixed beef with the lamb meat.  A friend called them on it, and was brushed off.  I suggested they rename the dish “Shepherd’Cottage Pie” but they did not take me up on it.   Whatever you called it, it was good.

I have a recipe (that I have never tried) for “real cottage pie” that  uses sliced/scalloped potatoes instead of mashed potatoes.  Is that how you make it @IsmeWeatherwax?  

I make cottage pie now and then because beef is less expensive than lamb. I'm not sure I'd like the sliced potatoes, but maybe if the filling was extra gravyish. It's the sort of thing you can adjust to your own taste. 🙂

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17 minutes ago, viii said:

I don't care if they're considered unhealthy - there's a place and time for casseroles ALWAYS. 

I want to preface this with saying I am not aiming this towards you. More like I’m aiming this at our food culture. 
 

I hate it when foods are vilified. Casseroles are so varied! Saying all casseroles are bad/disgusting/unhealthy is like saying all soups are bad/disgusting/unhealthy because JillRod made her grease soup the other day. People are so creative. We can make casseroles in so many different ways that they could be so nutritious, delicious, and filling. Just because some casseroles have too much salt or fat or whatever doesn’t mean all casseroles should be completely written off. 

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2 hours ago, viii said:

I don't care if they're considered unhealthy - there's a place and time for casseroles ALWAYS. 

Isn’t a casserole like a oven form filled with stuff and baked (mostly topped with grated cheese)? If so, it’s like a normal dish in many cultures. But I wouldn’t call it unhealthy. Most are full of fresh veg, sometimes meat, sometimes pasta/rice/potatoes and cheese or cream aren’t unhealthy in general. It all comes down to the ingredients. 
If that’s what we are talking about that is.

And there is definitely a place and a time for the more unhealthy food full of salt, sugar and fat. 

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I think casseroles are just a different style of eating. My parents were(are) weird eaters, IMO. They eat a protein,starch, salad and veg at every evening meal. They never eat casseroles, lasagna, spaghetti, meatless, unless its fish, which they do eat regularly. They also only eat twice a day, period. They are both healthy, active and cruising towards 90. In my home, we eat lots of crockpot type meals, lots of ethnic foods, and many, many meatless meals. We also only eat twice a day. I do love me some casseroles.

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