2020 Election Fallout 15: More Information Is Being Revealed About The Big Lie

[CTRLZero]

The story about the forged elector documents is interesting and, of course, concerning.  I am wondering if there any indication that the document forgers and/or signatories will be prosecuted.  Thanks for posting.  I really think it’s time to do away with the electoral college if it is so open to this sort of manipulation. 

[GreyhoundFan]

"Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes charged with seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 Capitol riot"

Quote

Stewart Rhodes — founder and leader of the extremist group Oath Keepers, whose members are accused of being key players in the Jan. 6 attack on Congress — has been indicted and arrested in connection with the riot, officials said Thursday.

The 56-year-old, who was at the Capitol that day but has said he did not enter the building, is the most high-profile person charged in the investigation so far. He is charged with seditious conspiracy, along with 10 other Oath Keepers members or associates, officials said.

Most of those individuals were previously arrested, but one, 63-year-old Edward Vallejo of Phoenix, is also facing charges as part of the case against the Oath Keepers for the first time. Officials said Rhodes was arrested this morning in Little Elm, Tex., and Vallejo was taken into custody in Phoenix.

A federal grand jury in the District leveled the new charges focusing on what prosecutors say is a core group of Oath Keepers adherents who allegedly planned for and participated in obstructing Congress on the day lawmakers certified President Biden’s 2020 election victory.

The indictments unsealed Thursday mark the first time anyone has faced charges of seditious conspiracy for the Jan. 6 attacks, though prosecutors have long signaled they were considering using that rarely applied section of federal law.

In interviews with The Washington Post over the past year, Rhodes — a former Army paratrooper and Yale Law graduate who has become one of the most visible figures of the far-right anti-government movement — has repeatedly denied wrongdoing.

He said he was communicating with members of his group on Jan. 6, 2021, in an effort to “keep them out of trouble,” and emphasized that Oath Keepers associates who did go into the Capitol “went totally off mission.”

An attorney for Rhodes, Jonathon A. Moseley, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

An earlier indictment charged 19 of alleged Oath Keepers adherents with conspiracy and aiding and abetting the obstruction of Congress. Two of those individuals have pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate with investigators. The rest have pleaded not guilty and are preparing for trials later this year.

In cases in which people have pleaded guilty, defendants acknowledged they were among a group that forced entry through the Capitol’s East Rotunda doors after marching single-file in tight formation up the steps wearing camouflage vests, helmets, goggles and Oath Keepers insignia.

Some defendants also admitted to stashing guns in a nearby Arlington, Va., hotel for possible use by what they called a “quick reaction force.”

The attack on the Capitol occurred as lawmakers were gathered there to formally confirm Joe Biden’s 2020 election victory, amid repeated and unfounded allegations of widespread election fraud and as then-President Donald Trump was urging his supporters to “stop the steal.”

The certification of the election results was disrupted by the pro-Trump rioters, who injured scores of police officers and ransacked Capitol offices as lawmakers were evacuated from the House floor.

In court filings related to the original conspiracy case, prosecutors alleged that the group came to Washington at Rhodes’s urging. Rhodes began discussing plans to keep Trump in the White House by force as early as Nov. 9, the filings state.

Seven other alleged Oath Keepers members or associates were previously arrested in connection with the Jan. 6 riot, but they were not charged in the large conspiracy case.

Prosecutors allege that before and during the riot, Rhodes exchanged dozens of encrypted messages, phone calls and other communications with members of the Oath Keepers group that breached the Capitol. Rhodes has accused prosecutors of trying to manufacture a nonexistent conspiracy.

In interviews with The Post, Rhodes disputed previous government allegations regarding his encrypted posts to a group that included regional Oath Keepers leaders from several states at the scene.

The messages, on the Signal message app, were an attempt to keep the group members “out of trouble,” he said.

In an online interview Wednesday with NorthWest Liberty News, Rhodes said federal agents would “love to put me behind bars.”

But he insisted he had not committed crimes.

“I don’t do illegal activities. I always stay on this side of the line,” he said. “I know where the lines are, and it drives them crazy.

“So they’re, they’re actively hunting me down, they’ve got the DOJ running around sending the FBI out to investigate us, Oath Keepers, and they’re questioning all of our members across the country — even guys that didn’t go to D.C. — about me, and about their relationship with me. And the focus is on trying to build a case against myself and other Oath Keepers to bring us all in jail. But some people aren’t satisfied unless we’re all in jail.”

Rhodes also said he has grown disillusioned with Trump, accusing the former president of not supporting members of the Oath Keepers charged in the Jan. 6 investigation.

“All of the people that are being unlawfully detained or denied bail, they’re being abandoned by Trump. He’s done nothing for them. You know, he could donate money, he hasn’t even done that. He didn’t pardon anybody while he was still in office, and then when he left, he hasn’t raised money,” Rhodes said. “... I think he has abandoned his base, because he has abandoned the people who were there to protect his other supporters. So, yes, I do feel abandoned by him.”

Prosecutors say the Oath Keepers, a loose network of groups founded in 2009 that includes some self-styled citizen militias, seeks to recruit current or former members of law enforcement and the military, promoting an apocalyptic vision of the government careening toward totalitarianism and societal collapse.

Days after the attack on Congress, the Justice Department announced that it was considering charging some of the rioters with seditious conspiracy — a rarely filed criminal charge for those who use violence to try to hinder the execution of federal law.

In the year since the attack, the Justice Department has charged more than 700 people. The FBI is seeking to arrest more than 200 more.

But some Democrats and lawyers have argued that the department has been too cautious in pursuing more-serious charges, including against individuals who may not have been at the Capitol but may have organized or incited the violence.

In a speech last week, Attorney General Merrick Garland urged his critics to be patient, noting that federal conspiracy investigations typically start with the lesser allegations and work their way toward graver charges.

 

[Howl]

3 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

"Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes charged with seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 Capitol riot"

This is a HUGE DEAL.  Also, all those conversations on encrypted apps?  Yup, they have 'em. 

Kelly Sorelle is the attorney for Oathkeepers.  I think there's a typo, should be "perfect" bail hearing. 

 

Good thread and bits and pieces of the charges, a bit of time lines, etc. 

Unroll of thread for non twitterati:  I AM SO EXCITED to be threading about actual arrests for SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY.

So keep this in mind.  DC is crazy serious on limiting the possession of firearms with incredibly harsh penalties, so weapons were stockpiled just across the river in Virginia at a motel. 

QFRs (I think this stands for Quick Response Force) were on standby; they were even working on setting up boats to ferry weapons across the river whenever the word was received.  

In Dec., Rhodes rhetoric was violent and specific about the need for armed resurgence. 

And then...nothing. 

There could have been an absolute bloodbath at the Capitol, but there wasn't. 

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Howl

[47of74]

Iowa Branch Trumpvidian Doug Jensen, who was one of the Jan 6 terrorists was told he's still not leaving jail today.

Quote

A Washington, D.C., judge has ruled on Doug Jensen's request to be released from jail yet again.

Jensen was once released on bond with a ban on using the internet, but the court says he violated those rules this summer by looking at videos that questioned the legitimacy of the 2020 election.

In its ruling this morning, the court says he has not shown that reconsideration for release is warranted

"That Defendant seeks to modify conditions that he himself proposed—after violating them—only underscores the Court’s conclusion that he is unlikely to abide by them," Judge Timothy Kelly wrote in his decision.

Good.  Idiots like Jensen need to learn sooner or later that they're not above the law just cause Orange Fuck Face told them to go commit a terrorist attack on the Capitol.

[GreyhoundFan]

Interesting interview. I hope this results in successful prosecutions:

 

[GreyhoundFan]

Qevin is such a weasel:

 

[GreyhoundFan]

Everything Trump Touches Dies: "Trump’s top Texas backer joined ‘Stop the Steal.’ It’s ending badly for him."

Quote

It’s become an ironclad law of this political moment: If you fall in with Donald Trump’s sordid schemes, it’s probably only a matter of time until his vortex of corruption claims you entirely.

The pull of that vortex is now being illustrated by a remarkable breaking story out of Texas. It concerns one Ken Paxton, the Republican attorney general of Texas and one of the most devoted servants in the land of Trump’s efforts to subvert the 2020 election.

Paxton is coming under fire at home for refusing to turn over texts and emails related to his trip to the Capitol to join the Jan. 6 “Stop the Steal” rally. His association with Trump’s schemes is now coming to a head: The Travis County district attorney has just announced that Paxton may be running afoul of the state’s open records law.

You may remember Paxton. He led that despicable lawsuit brought by Republican attorneys general that sought to invalidate millions of votes in four states, all because those states went for Joe Biden.

Paxton then gave a rousing speech at the Jan. 6 gathering, in which he urged Trump supporters not to “quit fighting.” They didn’t, and soon after, a mob attacked the Capitol, culminating in an effort to overturn U.S. democracy that left five dead and scores injured.

This has now caught up with him. And what’s emerging is shaping up as quite the sordid tale.

Last spring, four Texas newspapers asked Paxton’s office for all work-related texts and emails sent and received while he was in Washington for “Stop the Steal,” citing Texas law guaranteeing the public the right to government documents.

Paxton refused, and the four newspapers took their complaint to Travis County district attorney Jose Garza. Now Garza’s office has investigated the complaint and found that it has merit, announcing that Paxton is in violation of Texas law and giving him four days to release the documents in question, or go to court.

What makes this so remarkable is that the office of Paxton, as attorney general, is supposed to be the party enforcing this open records law. But Texas law also offers the option of going to the Travis County prosecutor to allege that a state agency (in this case, Paxton’s) is in violation.

That’s what happened here. Underscoring the absurdity of this, one transparency expert told the Houston Chronicle that he could not recall another example of an attorney general being accused of violating the law to keep his own communications out of the public eye.

It’s hard to say what Paxton’s communications — presuming they do come out — will contain. And there’s no indication that they will necessarily contain anything that explosive. But it’s reasonable to suspect they may include exchanges with some of the rally’s organizers and possibly Trump’s inner circle about what was about to transpire.

Any more detail about Paxton’s role in helping to energize the crowd, given what ultimately happened, will surely not reflect well on him as top law enforcement official from one of the nation’s largest states.

Paxton, of course, will undoubtedly view any association with Trump, no matter now wretched and depraved, as helpful with the GOP base. Indeed, in Trumpist public officials like Paxton, you can trace a direct line from support for Trump’s effort to subvert democracy right to the seething contempt for his own role as a public servant we’re now seeing from him.

Recall that when Paxton announced that lawsuit on Trump’s behalf, he oozed with phony sanctimony about the need for “trust in the integrity of our election processes.” After this, he spearheaded a lawsuit that didn’t merely seek to cast out millions of votes based on lies. It also went out of its way to highlight invented fraud in urban areas that just happen to be home to a lot of Black voters.

It was only a short leap from there to playing a prominent role in “Stop the Steal,” and then after that rally helped spark the worst outbreak of U.S. political violence in modern times, spinning right around and blaming the riot on antifa. Yes, Paxton also did exactly that.

Now reporters are demanding that Paxton release his communications about that day. As a San Antonio Express-News editorial sharply put it:

Who paid for Paxton’s jaunt to Washington, D.C., for the rally? And with whom did Paxton communicate during the week of the insurrection? How did he react to the riot as it unfolded? Who booked him as a speaker?

To top it all off, Paxton may now be breaking the law that his own office is supposed to enforce to keep any Jan. 6-related communications covered up.

Here’s another unshakable rule of the Trump era: The same Republicans who insult us with the most transparently phony pieties about protecting the integrity of our constitutional system will sooner or later display bottomless contempt for our elections, for the law, and even for public service itself.

 

[Ozlsn]

On 1/14/2022 at 6:34 AM, GreyhoundFan said:

All of the people that are being unlawfully detained or denied bail, they’re being abandoned by Trump. He’s done nothing for them. You know, he could donate money, he hasn’t even done that.

It still amazes me that people believe Trump would be loyal to them and return their support. Trump is loyal to exactly one human on the planet, himself. Mafia dons have more reciprocal loyalty. The people that Trump appears to be loyal to have convinced him that it's in his best interest to do so, usually by appealing to his ego through flattery. 

2 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

The same Republicans who insult us with the most transparently phony pieties about protecting the integrity of our constitutional system will sooner or later display bottomless contempt for our elections, for the law, and even for public service itself

I don't think any of these guys are in it for public service. Power on the other hand I totally see.

21 hours ago, Howl said:

There could have been an absolute bloodbath at the Capitol, but there wasn't. 

I had no idea about the weapons in Virginia, but that shocks me. Not just there either, it could have been across states.

[Howl]

Re: Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton

This does seem like a big deal, but it's just part of Paxton's huge backlog of criminality.   His top aides turned whistleblowers and accused him of criminal favoritism to a real estate developer named Nate Paul, and they all ended up fired or quitting.  He claims they can't blow the whistle because something something.  All of that is still pending, along with pending charges for a securities violation from his FIRST term as attorney general. 

Paxton will delay and obstruct because that's what he knows how to do. 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Howl

[Howl]

Kellye SoRelle, lawyer for Oath Keepers, has declared that she is interim Oath Keepers president while Stewart Rhodes is dealing with his legal issues. 

She's the lawyer for Oath Keepers and a bunch of other people tied up in this mess. 

Oath Keepers provided "security" for Roger Stone.  Also ties to Ali Alexander and of course traitorous shit weasel Mike Flynn. 

Rhodes was arraigned on Friday and will stay in jail until his detention hearing on Jan 20.  It will be interesting to see if he stays in detention until his trial or is freed on bail.  It will be argued that he's not a threat and has no criminal history BUT his house was searched by the FBI and I suspect there were weapons out the kazoo. He also has a well documented history of incredibly inflammatory rhetoric, so there's that. 

The seditious conspiracy charge is no slam dunk, though.  He and his fellow conspirators may or may not go to prison. 

An interview with his now ex wife was interesting. They formalized the divorce relatively recently but apparently it dragged on for three years and she lived in fear of him showing up at her house or her childrens' school. 

She and Rhodes founded Oath Keepers together in 2009, but now...'Complete sociopath': Stewart Rhodes' estranged wife warns Oath Keepers leader a "dangerous man"

Quote

"He is very dangerous. He lives very much in his own head," she explained. "He sees himself as a great leader, he almost has his own mythology of himself and I think he almost made it come true as seeing himself as some sort of figure in history and it sort of happened. He's a complete sociopath, he does not feel empathy for anyone around him at all."

 

[WiseGirl]

Well this is scary AF.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/01/january-6-insurrection-trump-coup-2024-election/620843/

The article starts with this cheery thought..."Technically, the next attempt to overthrow a national election may not qualify as a coup. It will rely on subversion more than violence, although each will have its place. If the plot succeeds,..."

[Howl]

Quote

"Technically, the next attempt to overthrow a national election may not qualify as a coup. It will rely on subversion more than violence, although each will have its place. If the plot succeeds,..."

Agree with this 100%.  It's happening at the state level, with legislation being passed that will allow an alternate slate of electors or will allow electors to vote against the wishes of the voters.  

If the Republicans take over the House and/or the Senate in 2022, we can kiss democracy good bye. 

Some tweeters have been referring back to the Brooks Brothers riot that stopped the hand counting of ballots in Florida in the Gore/Bush election. It's almost certain that Gore actually won the election, but he ceded to protect the stability of the country. 

Also, as Republican strategist and uber shitweasel Karl Rove pointed out -- you don't have to have massive electoral fraud to win, just pinpoint one or two key precincts and change votes by 3% or so. 

That Republicans have in a few instances altered vote tallies in various races is beyond dispute and suspected in more. 

[WiseGirl]

So easy for them to do and they got so close. 

 

[fraurosena]

10 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

So easy for them to do and they got so close. 

 

Just came here to post this exact thread. Really worth the read, and the comments as well as they give even more information on the plan. I did not know this for example:

If the Jan 6 committee is pulling on this thread (and I believe they are) then it is only a matter of time before it all comes to light.

What happens next is absolutely crucial.

[Howl]

I've been following along with all the twists and turns about the insurrection, and have recently (with the big reveal of the Eastman Memo and the Green Bay Sweep) been understanding that there was way more to the story.  But this relatively short article (actually an op-ed) reveals much more, that the genesis of the coup and the very structured plotting and planning began much earlier (up to a year earlier) with Republican dark money and organizations.  The insurrection was truly just a moment in time.  One has to assume that structured planning, plotting, skullduggery and ratfuckery continues on at every level where influence can be applied and leveraged. 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Howl

[Howl]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:34 PM, GreyhoundFan said:

"Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes charged with seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 Capitol riot"

This Oath Keeper may have been pivotal in flipping to provide evidence that led to the arrest of Rhodes et al.. He was arrested sometime last spring and began cooperating in April, according the DoJ. 

 

[Ozlsn]

I honestly wonder if some of those charged are begining to see how used - and how expendable - they were to the organisers. From The Guardian article:

The insurrection may also have been intended to provide a pretext for precipitating clashes with anti-Trump demonstrators, following the example of the street violence and multiple knife stabbings perpetrated in Washington by the neo-Nazi Proud Boys chanting “1776” on 12 December, and which would then be an excuse for invoking the Insurrection Act.

How many of the rioters would have ended up dead or injured if troops had been brought in to "restore order"? You have to think some are now looking at events and having second thoughts.

[GreyhoundFan]

3 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

I honestly wonder if some of those charged are begining to see how used - and how expendable - they were to the organisers.

Sadly, I would wager that many of them will never admit it to themselves. People don't like to admit they were bamboozled.

[GreyhoundFan]

[fraurosena]

2 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

He got caught up in the moment.

Yeah, right. Pretty loooooooong moment, then.

And what was he doing there in the first place? Not anything with good intentions, that's for sure.

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, fraurosena said:

He got caught up in the moment.

Yeah, right. Pretty loooooooong moment, then.

And what was he doing there in the first place? Not anything with good intentions, that's for sure.

He should be caught up in many more moments in prison, during which he can hone his regrets.

[Ozlsn]

3 hours ago, fraurosena said:

He got caught up in the moment.

Yeah, right. Pretty loooooooong moment, then.

And what was he doing there in the first place? Not anything with good intentions, that's for sure.

I don't know, I think it probably accurately sums it up for some people (not the ones stashing firearms obviously, but some of the others). They didn't go to Washington seriously intending to break and enter, they went as a show of force which was going to be enough for the electoral college votes to be thrown out, the One True King Saviour President restored. They were sheep in every sense - led to Washington, manipulated while there, following others with very few thoughts of their own.  What gets me about reading a lot of the interviews is how utterly sincere people are - they genuinely believe there was fraud, it was/is their civic duty to therefore "restore" the election result to the "correct" one. It is so far from reality that I don't see how they got there, and any alternative suggestion shocks them. From The Atlantic article:

Spoiler

Why don’t you say Joe Biden got 81 million and there’s only 60 million left for Trump?” I asked.

Patterson was astonished.

“It’s not disputed, the 74 million vote count that was credited to President Trump’s reelection effort,” he replied, baffled at my ignorance. “It’s not in dispute … Have you heard that President Trump engaged in cheating and fraudulent practices and crooked machines?”

Seriously I kind of want to ask him why he believes Trump didn't do this given, you know, his entire adult history.

For them there is no way anyone like them could have voted for Biden, let alone so many, therefore it must be corruption.

As a side note I was tryimg to imagine the response if Obama/Clinton had formented this kind of feeling and response after the 2016 election, and low long the US would have been under martial law as a result.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Ozlsn
Slight clarification

[front hugs > duggs]

Even if you get caught up in a moment, you are still accountable for your actions.

Imagine what these people would say to a rioter who "just got caught up in the moment".

[Audrey2]

It is so interesting and misogynistic that if a woman and a man get "caught up in the moment" and the woman gets pregnant then the right wants to sentence her to nine months of pregnancy and childbirth instead of leaving it up to her because she needs to face the "consequence of her actions", yet if a man is caught up in the moment and riots and illegally enters the capital building he should be let off completely free.

[Ozlsn]

5 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

Even if you get caught up in a moment, you are still accountable for your actions.

Imagine what these people would say to a rioter who "just got caught up in the moment".

Oh totally agree. It doesn't matter if they were passionately celebrating their sports team winning or losing, were intoxicated, were protesting wealth inequality or what - the minute they threw the brick through the window, or broke and entered into the Capitol they were culpable. What I'm finding interesting as much as anything is how they were manipulated into that moment - and how many of them still don't seem to see that. I think a lot are trying to reconcile their self-image as middle class, solid upstanding citizens with facing charges for something that doesn't fit that image, and I'm hoping some at least are questioning how they got there. As I said I'm not talking as much about the ones who turned up with arms caches - they were at the very least cosplaying revolution with some degree of intent - but the ones who were convinced the election was stolen and came to a rally to protest that (in their minds at least). I'm finding it weirdly interesting how many appear to be shocked that they were arrested even, let alone charged - people like them don't get arrested and charged for things like that, especially when they are On The Good Side. I hope the sentences start better reflecting the seriousness of the charges to be honest - actually I hope the charges start getting a lot more serious too as the planners start being arrested. I could live with e.g. the Koch brothers and Murdoch being questioned on what their role in attemoting to overthrow the government was. Who am I kidding, I'd take leave and watch the livestream with popcorn handy.