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(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 44 - Fate in the hands of the jury


HerNameIsBuffy

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Duggar Data has some very good explanations (they're a criminal defense attorney).

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"Closing arguments tomorrow morning. Jury will get instructions then start deliberating most likely in the early afternoon. Jury either reaches a verdict, or not. If not, there’s a mistrial; the Prosecutor can retry the case or not. If there’s a verdict, it’ll be ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty.’ If guilty, Josh might be jailed immediately or he might be released to the Rebers until sentencing. Sentencing will occur in 75–90 Days. Probably, he’ll get 15ish Years, possibly with a few on probation but most in custody. He will almost certainly go away for at least 5 Years. If ‘not guilty,’ he walks out free, and can’t be retried."

And a great explainer on the time between verdict and sentencing if found guilty:

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Section 3143 of the U.S. Code deals with this issue… Basically, if a Defendant is found guilty, the judge has to decide whether there is “clear and convincing evidence that the [Defendant] is not likely to flee or pose a danger to the safety of… the community.” (Emphasis added.) If there is, the judge “shall” (must) release the Defendant—on appropriate conditions, of course—pending sentencing. If there isn’t, the judge “shall order that [the Defendant] … be detained.”

While I wouldn’t be shocked either way, I think there’s a chance that Josh will be released pending sentencing. The fact is: He has been out on conditional release, pending trial—and apparently, he hasn’t violated the terms of that release. Based on that, I think it’s fair for the judge to conclude that Josh isn’t going to flee—if he wanted to, he would’ve by now—and that any danger to the community could fairly easily be mitigated with conditions (e.g., no contact with any minors).

It could go either way, though… Obviously, the charges are serious and it wouldn’t be even remotely unreasonable for Judge Brooks to order Josh remain in jail to protect the community—especially, the children of the community.

We’ll see.

Sentencing will probably occur 75–90 Days after the verdict.

 

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I can't have alcohol. But I can have a slice of my devils pudding cake I made when I get home at 5pm.  . 

Hopefully it's out of celebration 

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Just now, HerNameIsBuffy said:

You realize in this case the system is me, right?  :) 

Beat you 😘

At best a dead heat.

Rage against the machine!  I mean, Hi Buffy, thanks for the new thread. 😁

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3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It's too early for wine, but I have toasted coconut chocolate chip ice cream in the freezer.   Anyone care to join me?

I'm feeling the affects of my booster from yesterday, but I'm with you with my gatorade!  

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Sharing my recent jury story:  I was on a jury in a case where the defendant was on trial for domestic abuse, and for assault on a police officer.  An engaged couple had taken a weekend trip to my county (a popular tourist destination) and went out one night to a local bar - probably more for kicks because it is sort of a dumpy bar frequented mostly by locals.  They had been drinking wine earlier, then margaritas poolside,  and then drank some more at the bar.  The woman starting talking with a couple locals at the bar, and the guy was talking (more like boasting) to some other locals and he kept wanting to show off the big engagement ring he had given to his fiance.  She got tired of the interruptions, took the ring off and tossed it at him, and basically told him if he wanted to show it off, here it is.  That hurt his feelings, and (according to who was testifying, he either pushed her against her bar stool, or he stumbled against her).  At that point, the bartender told him to leave, he wouldn't leave, and so the bartender and a couple patrons pushed him out the back door and called the cops.  Small time cop rolls up, parking lot is dark, there are a couple guys rolling around on the ground, officer fails to identify himself and tries to break it up, and gets shoved by the drunk guy.  That leads to his arrest while fiance cries and berates the officer in the background.  

Anyway, all of the jury agreed that the defendant behaved like an idiot, and also agreed that the local cop did not identify himself so when he pushed back on the officer, he didn't knowingly assault a police officer.  The police officer testified and was a terrible witness.  The bartender testified and was also a poor witness, and the best witness was the defendant himself.   Some of us had mixed feelings on the domestic abuse charge - but we ended up agreeing that we had reasonable doubt on that charge.  

We took about 90 minutes to reach a final decision.  I feel that everyone on the jury took their job seriously, we all had a chance to express our opinions while the other listened.  He was acquitted.   

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Do the kids realize that this super expensive trial is being paid for by the money they earned on TLC, that was stolen from them by JB? 

Jill must be glad she got her settlement when she did.

Edited by usedbicycle
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4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It's too early for wine, but I have toasted coconut chocolate chip ice cream in the freezer.   Anyone care to join me?

It’s my birthday so I’ll have wine early and toast your ice cream 🍨 🥂 

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5 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It's too early for wine, but I have toasted coconut chocolate chip ice cream in the freezer.   Anyone care to join me?

I'll join you with my four types of Ben & Jerry's.

(shut up, I can stop any time I want, it's fine, it isn't a problem)

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2 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

While I wouldn’t be shocked either way, I think there’s a chance that Josh will be released pending sentencing. The fact is: He has been out on conditional release, pending trial—and apparently, he hasn’t violated the terms of that release. Based on that, I think it’s fair for the judge to conclude that Josh isn’t going to flee—if he wanted to, he would’ve by now—and that any danger to the community could fairly easily be mitigated with conditions (e.g., no contact with any minors).

I keep seeing stuff to this effect, but he wasn't convicted then.  It's all different now and who knows what his mindset will be knowing he's looking at time.  He had something to lose before, he has nothing to lose now. 

I honestly this this whole letting dangerous people out pending sentencing needs to stop.

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1 minute ago, lizzybee said:

my emotions and feelings are all over the place here. Virtual hugs to everyone feeling everything while we await this verdict.  

Yes! This is stirring up a lot. And around the holidays too. Can our avatars just sip tea together and set everything to rights?

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Not logged to FJ in a while but I’m back for this (hopefully) glorious day.

OFF TO THE PRAYER CLOSET PEST!

(I hope … )

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2 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I'm surprised how quiet Twitter has been about this. I guess the Duggars are still very niche. 

Twitter had a lot of Duggar stuff when he was first arrested, but there are a couple of other really big trials this week - so I think the true crime audience is more splintered right now.

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7 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It's too early for wine, but I have toasted coconut chocolate chip ice cream in the freezer.   Anyone care to join me?

I still have part of a Reese’s ice-cream cake in my freezer left over from my birthday in September (I hope it’s still good).

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I’m drinking chamomile by the pot full but it isn’t helping.  They need to finish up so I can clean my house, dammit!

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2 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I'm surprised how quiet Twitter has been about this. I guess the Duggars are still very niche. 

Isn't that weird?  I had no idea who Travis Scott was or that whichever Jenner it was had a baby until the concert disaster...but I know what kind of hairstyle Gothard and Jim Bob prefer on women.

I don't think my pop culture references are very mainstream.

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1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I keep seeing stuff to this effect, but he wasn't convicted then.  It's all different now and who knows what his mindset will be knowing he's looking at time.  He had something to lose before, he has nothing to lose now. 

I honestly this this whole letting dangerous people out pending sentencing needs to stop.

I expect the racial disparity is especially striking if not unexpected on this. I know that black men are significantly more likely to be detained PRE-trial than white defendants. 

As someone above mentioned the guy from glee, it seems like the potential for the same thing he did is of course much higher after sentencing (CW for self harm)

 

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1 minute ago, neuroticcat said:

Yes! This is stirring up a lot. And around the holidays too. Can our avatars just sip tea together and set everything to rights?

It took me a minute to realize what you were saying, but I realized you're right, our avatars ARE both having tea! I usually use Lizzy smiling at Mr Bennet through the window on forums, but I thought her sipping tea was better for FJ. Speaking of which, I might go ahead and make myself a real restorative cup. My poor nerves could use it. 

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3 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Twitter had a lot of Duggar stuff when he was first arrested, but there are a couple of other really big trials this week - so I think the true crime audience is more splintered right now.

I think it’s wild that the Duggar trial is going on same time as Maxwell trial. I mean, different profiles, but the reminder that evil do CSAM can be anywhere.

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I'm drinking a ton of tea but I wish a verdict could come in so I can focus on fun stuff.

At least I have two kittens with me as I refresh the page.

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