"M" Is for Mama 12: Birth Control Should Have Been Your BFF

[TuringMachine]

2 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

Um...Braggie, Shaun did not "nail" becoming an architect for designing and executing your craptastic, wonky angles and ceiling lines everywhere, asymmetrical H.R. PufnStuf house.  LOL

Nailed it

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, TuringMachine said:

Nailed it

She thought the pretty wallpaper would be a distraction and no one would notice 😉

[anjulibai]

That is some optical illusion. I'm not even entirely sure what I'm looking at and how that's all angled. 

[theotherelise]

This is the roofline of a well-planned home!

[anjulibai]

Just, why?

[JermajestyDuggar]

20 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

This is the roofline of a well-planned home!

That is a strange roofline. I’ve circled the strangest part. I’m no architect but that doesn’t seem right to me. 

[TuringMachine]

This is the college "indoctrination" she's talking about? She's worried her kids will be "indoctrinated" with basic architecture knowledge and realize maybe it's not a great idea to DIY a house when you have 0 qualifications?

[neuroticcat]

Today Abbie is posting about the penny reward system. It sounds to me like what the Duggars used back in the day, but I don’t care to take a deep dive to learn more. I think the Duggars kept a chart to pay a penny for obedience or “yes ma’am” or whatever and then paid out monthly. I remember trying it in my fundiedom days and, in the end, it was a big disappointment all around, because even very little kids aren’t stupid. A penny for doing something is not worth it. Even if they are extra obedient, what will they do with a whole dollar at the end of the month? 

No doubt Abbie will clarify that she has never seen the Duggars and her idea is original. 

[neuroticcat]

So googled an old blog post that tells me the penny system is basically an in-house reward system. Pennies don’t buy things but stand for privileges set by parents. So, you know, yet another way to manipulate a child’s behavior while benefitting overwhelmed parents, and, at least back then, replace hiring a house cleaner and of course parental tasks like diaper changing with child labor. 
 

But, old blogger Abbie is quick to clarify, they don’t want their kids to be entitled, so they don’t always reward them for their work. Got to keep them hopping, I guess. 
 

It’s hard to find someone with ideas worse for children than the Duggars, but this might be it.

[danvillebelle]

I swear someday I'm going to send Braggie's blog and house plans to Kate from McMansion Hell.  She'd have a field day.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Oh please. Please. Pretty please. Pleeeeease, do it.  Just do it.  

[smittykins]

1 hour ago, neuroticcat said:

So googled an old blog post that tells me the penny system is basically an in-house reward system. Pennies don’t buy things but stand for privileges set by parents.

So, kind of like the Stockdale family tokens(which could be redeemed for things like an approved radio program or sticks of gum).

[JermajestyDuggar]

25 minutes ago, smittykins said:

So, kind of like the Stockdale family tokens(which could be redeemed for things like an approved radio program or sticks of gum).

And we know how well that turned out. 
 

Im not being completely serious. I’m not blaming the tokens. Just the extreme control over children.

[theotherelise]

I remember Abbie talking about the girls using Pennies to buy an extension on bedtime. That’s the only thing I’ve ever seen her say the Pennies were redeemed for. 

Every time she talks about it, I am super curious about how much they really follow through on it. Seems like something she’d pick up and drop on a whim but still act like it’s something they always do and yada yada yada. 

[neuroticcat]

53 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

I remember Abbie talking about the girls using Pennies to buy an extension on bedtime. That’s the only thing I’ve ever seen her say the Pennies were redeemed for. 

Every time she talks about it, I am super curious about how much they really follow through on it. Seems like something she’d pick up and drop on a whim but still act like it’s something they always do and yada yada yada. 

Yes, late bedtime was referenced here. 
 

Spoiler

https://misformama.net/2016/09/mama-life-hacks21-the-penny-system.html

Man, and doesn’t this comment on their exemplify the true intention behind non-mediocre motherhood? 🙄”Well, if it makes you feel any better, whoever made the comment was probably neglecting their one or two children while they were typing away (tsk tsk my grandma would say)Doesn’t it make you so thankful that God sees us, and we aren’t judged (ultimately) by man? Keep up the good work little Mama and remember the Lord sees you. I imagine He thinks you are the bomb diggity yo. 🙂”

[anachronistic]

It’s a token reward system, it’s very simple. I’m not sure about other countries but various iterations of it are used by teachers and therapists all over the US. It’s used a lot with disabled kids as part of behavior plans. But it only works if you’re consistent with it, which Abbie isn’t and admits to. The kids have no idea if they’ll earn anything or not. For me I wouldn’t be able to cope with such randomness and would give up trying at all. I guess her kids comply with it not because they really want the rewards but because they don’t want to get Mama angry.

Some of those chores - sheesh! Mow the whole lawn? Clean a whole room? That’s ridiculous. Those are adult chores, or stuff to do partnered with an adult so it gets done right. (My method of mopping as a kid involved dumping a lot of soapy water on the floor, running a mop over it and waiting for it to dry.) 
 

That house is an eyesore top bottom and back. It just makes no sense. If there are rewards at McMansion Hell it should win the platinum trophy.

[neuroticcat]

Yeah, the concept of inconsistent rewards is what makes games like Candy Crush so addictive. You constantly return b/c you just might get it.

It always strikes me how silly the fundie argument against psychology/therapy/etc as being a man centered approach based on secular humanism when so much of their parenting technique is the worst of Behavioral Psychology 101 with Bible verses slapped on top.

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

I've run a lot of token economies over the years; here are my thoughts:

1) It is near impossible to do a token-ish economy with that number of children. This will fall apart within days.

2) For little ones, she shouldn't use the number of pennies, per se. Instead, use "jewels" or some such (puff balls, monkeys from the barrel of moneys game, whatever) and put a line (or rubber band) around a small jar or anything opaque. Jars should be out of the child's reach but I want them to see how the "jewels" or whatever are accumulating. Keep it exciting!

3) Choose one or two target behaviors only that are specific for that child. Sitting on the potty. Putting toys away, etc. 

4) At a specified time of the day, parent and child check the jar to see if they reached the line. If so, they get something EXTRA. Maybe an ice cream before bed, access to a special toy that they love or 30 minutes on some forbidden computer game; whatever will really motivate that child. Change the something extra as needed.

5) If the child is a bit shy of the needed amount, offer to allow them to make-up a few by something: folding towels or something they are capable of. I always want the child to have hope for succeeding. Give the kid one or two options for the make-up and that is it. Otherwise it will become a battle to get to something the child wants. Should they not choose to do either of the options, that is their choice. Don't make it a push-pull argument or battle. As we know, Braggie always wants to "win." 

6) Think about what else the child is learning with this plan aside from the target behavior: How to argue better with mom? How to have some self-determination? How to make tasks routine? What coping skills they can use when faced with something they don't like?

7) With little ones you have to carry the the "jewels" around with you so that they reward is immediate. This will never happen with Braggie. Using a similar strategy with stickers on a chart is easier and the kid can run put their sticker up. For example, if you want child to do a "sit and try" on the potty every two hours you make six places for a sticker. A full chart would be the threshold for the something extra.

😎 You want the child to be successful a minimum of 75% of the time. Braggie doesn't care if they succeed or not. Kids and adults will reach a "what the hell" stage if the reward seems insurmountable. 

 Braggie is doing this with too many kids and has way, way too many target behaviors. She won't be able to keep it up and the kids will tire of this pretty quickly. Sorry for rambling on and on - it just makes me crazy that she's setting up many of these kids for failure.

[Ozlsn]

16 hours ago, anachronistic said:

But it only works if you’re consistent with it, which Abbie isn’t and admits to. The kids have no idea if they’ll earn anything or not. For me I wouldn’t be able to cope with such randomness and would give up trying at all. I guess her kids comply with it not because they really want the rewards but because they don’t want to get Mama angry.

And they lose rewards if they try and point out the inconsistency or unfairness of it. That bugged me - the kids shouldn't be penalised for Abbie being unable to stay consistent.

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

And they lose rewards if they try and point out the inconsistency or unfairness of it. That bugged me - the kids shouldn't be penalised for Abbie being unable to stay consistent.

It keeps them from questioning Braggie’s behavior. That’s the most important lesson for Braggie. 

[danvillebelle]

She answered a recipe doubling question by saying she doesn't use recipes (no shit).  She also said she cooks 3-5 lbs. of meat at a time, adds it to starch and veggies, and then has "several lunches as well as the dinner meal."

3-5lbs. of ground turkey or beef for dinner for 12 and several lunches besides does not compute, unless each serving of the recipe has like a teaspoon of ground meat.  It just doesn't.  Even with small portions for the twins and Shiloh.  

Ezra and Simon probably started cooking because they were hungry and needed to feed themselves.

ETA: she feeds her kids like this, but regularly gets Chik-fil-a for herself after workouts and drops at least $50 a week on a big meal out on date night.  

Edited January 27, 2022 by danvillebelle

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

She answered a recipe doubling question by saying she doesn't use recipes (no shit).  She also said she cooks 3-5 lbs. of meat at a time, adds it to starch and veggies, and then has "several lunches as well as the dinner meal."

3-5lbs. of ground turkey or beef for dinner for 12 and several lunches besides does not compute, unless each serving of the recipe has like a teaspoon of ground meat.  It just doesn't.  Even with small portions for the twins and Shiloh.  

Ezra and Simon probably started cooking because they were hungry and needed to feed themselves.

ETA: she feeds her kids like this, but regularly gets Chik-fil-a for herself after workouts and drops at least $50 a week on a big meal out on date night.  

And aside from an annual birthday lunch and I think a once a year steak meal, all she feeds those kids is ground turkey. I understand it’s cheap and a healthier option, but come on. We have been trying to eat more meatless meals, and IMO, it’s a lot more work to plan, cut, chop, dice, day after day. Can’t she (or the boys) throw some pork chops or chicken thighs on the grill? How about roasting a couple of whole chickens? I like soup and tacos too, but not every three days, week after week. I am a food snob in that I need some variety. If I was living in that house, I’d hate tacos and soup.

[TuringMachine]

2 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

3-5lbs. of ground turkey or beef for dinner for 12 and several lunches besides does not compute, unless each serving of the recipe has like a teaspoon of ground meat.  It just doesn't.  Even with small portions for the twins and Shiloh.   

Especially when two of those people are teenaged boys. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

And aside from an annual birthday lunch and I think a once a year steak meal, all she feeds those kids is ground turkey. I understand it’s cheap and a healthier option, but come on. We have been trying to eat more meatless meals, and IMO, it’s a lot more work to plan, cut, chop, dice, day after day. Can’t she (or the boys) throw some pork chops or chicken thighs on the grill? How about roasting a couple of whole chickens? I like soup and tacos too, but not every three days, week after week. I am a food snob in that I need some variety. If I was living in that house, I’d hate tacos and soup.

There are other meats besides ground turkey but she won’t eat them. I think she has body/food/fitness issues like many other women in our country and she sticks to the same recipes she seems healthy in order to stay the body size she wants. 

[neuroticcat]

7 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

She answered a recipe doubling question by saying she doesn't use recipes (no shit).  She also said she cooks 3-5 lbs. of meat at a time, adds it to starch and veggies, and then has "several lunches as well as the dinner meal."

3-5lbs. of ground turkey or beef for dinner for 12 and several lunches besides does not compute, unless each serving of the recipe has like a teaspoon of ground meat.  It just doesn't.  Even with small portions for the twins and Shiloh.  

Ezra and Simon probably started cooking because they were hungry and needed to feed themselves.

ETA: she feeds her kids like this, but regularly gets Chik-fil-a for herself after workouts and drops at least $50 a week on a big meal out on date night.  

Honestly, I could  see this working depending on the starch/veggie combo. I make chili for our family of 8 with one pound of ground beef, 5 cans chili beans, and veggies. Served with cornbread/rolls it makes enough for dinner and lunch the next day. So I would think doubling or tripling the meat would work for a family of 12, especially with so many being so little. Also, a casserole with a starch like pasta or rice could stretch a ways. But I guess a lot depends on how many meals comes out of that.

I don’t feel I am quite in mega family category, but at a certain point following recipes and doubling them is pointless for larger families. It is easier to just figure out how much will feed everyone and go with that and choose meals that deconstruct. Things like burritos, chili, casserole, roasts with veggies, are all easier to plan because it’s not serving based. It also helps deal with a variety of food preferences, because kids can opt out of things (though I doubt most fundie families would indulge this).

Her numbers here make sense to me, but her menu plan isn’t really a “plan.” Before I knew she was unhealthy, I subscribed to her menu plan for a week. It’s a random collection of recipes. I mean, how is that helpful? Anyone can just google that? If I want a menu plan, I’m looking for someone else to do the work of figuring out how things will work together, how you can take the leftovers from the roast on Monday and make fajitas on Wednesday and have produce that works for various meals so there is no waste. It was clear to me that the menu was not made by someone who had a tight budget, because you really do have to plan pretty carefully to maximize ingredients on a budget.