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(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 40 : Hope NWA Has Enough Booze* to Get the Jurors Through the Weekend


HerNameIsBuffy

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1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

@zee_four The next time you're in CO let me know, ok? I live on the east side of Denver, that little part of Englewood that is close to Aurora, Centennial and Parker. BUT...I'm willing to drive damn near anywhere to meet a FJ sister. 

I've noticed on this part of town, the LDS population doesn't seem to be that big. More generic Christian, Catholic and a small SDA population. I mean, there are meeting houses but not as big a population as there was where I lived in Arizona. Vegas LDS population was pretty small too. 

My abuser was abusive because she was pissed that she didn't get what she wanted (a boy). The father went along with it most of the time just to keep her happy. I spent a lot of time developing a mask and a fake personality to keep her from losing her shit on me. As I got older I started pushing back but it wasn't until I was probably close to 40 before I really stood up for myself. Imagine that...almost 40 and still trying to placate my abuser. 

The mind fuck is, in my opinion, worse than someone beating the shit out of me. I could handle being a punching bag but the verbal/emotional shit stays with you forever. Therapy helped me immensely, but I'm still trying to put myself back together again at my age. 

I think you live near where my mom is now at Parker and Arapahoe Road!!! So absolutely I will let you know I plan on being back in Colorado this summer. I spent most of my time back home in Eagle County but I always am with my mom for a bit when I get there and before I leave since she's near the airport 🙂

in Denver there's a decent sized LDS population in JeffCo, Littleton and Douglas County. Less as you get into Arapahoe County though a little bigger out east out of Smoky Hill and 470 is. 

Grand Junction especially Fruita have much larger LDS populations that's what I was thinking about. Nothing like Idaho, the Arizona strip or the burbs of Vegas (one of my BFF is from Vegas I want to visit him too we call Vegas the 9th Island heh)

I'm so sorry to hear about your abuser but know what an awesome bad ass woman you are and look up to you for it!! My last ex was non stop 24/7 abusive, when we worked together he didn't say or do anything except pretended to be super nice which I hated because I knew as soon as we left there would be hell to pay. I never slept, my entire day outside work revolved around him, making the house perfect, trying to get our roommate and his teenage son to fuck up less so he wouldn't take it out on me, make the dogs perfect so he wouldn't threaten them. It was exhausting. What's been hardest is his final beating leading me to miscarry a very wanted pregnancy at almost 4 months.

My son's dad who I was with years before was abusive when he was drunk and high. He was actually nice when he was sober but it became so rare. Yet because it was "only booze and weed" and I had problems with harder stuff. Its part of why his parents have custody and even though I've been clean almost 6 years now and am almost finished my MSW I don't have custody to ensure he doesn't get custody with his new wife and kid who he does on while ignoring our son and he still has all his drugs and guns around the house. 

I've been working on a solid self care plan for my MSW. I have a great caseworker and an okay doctor who is fairly new but keeping my meds I've had for 8 years and working stable. I've been waiting for a new therapist to call who I've been referred to. Ive had horrible problems with therapists since I was 11 and tried to commit suicide when my BP 1 first flared up and was misdiagnosed and then spent time at a youth center in Eagle then later Arapahoe County because I got in trouble running away manic and stuff.

This time I feel old and mature enough to know I need a therapist and what I look for in one and know I need to have a good relationship with whoever it is not just put up with them. 

But I will definitely let you know when I make plans to come back to Colorado this summer!!!

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I think that Austin may be realising how horrific these crimes are now that he is a father of 2 young kids.  I hope he is doing some reflection or some serious Whathefuckery is going on. Same all of the kids. 
 

I used to love true crime stories, but I can’t stomach cruelty against kids and women since becoming a mother. 

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9 minutes ago, Jrodseyeliner said:

I think that Austin may be realising how horrific these crimes are now that he is a father of 2 young kids.  I hope he is doing some reflection or some serious Whathefuckery is going on. Same all of the kids. 
 

It's not only Austin but Joy as well based on her latest Instagram post.  She seems to be really hurting.  

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12 minutes ago, karenb4729 said:

It's not only Austin but Joy as well based on her latest Instagram post.  She seems to be really hurting.  

I agree and I hope that Joy and Austin let their feelings and grief be felt and acknowledged.. This could be the start of a long journey for them.  

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5 hours ago, Sabine said:

I was the weakest scapegoat in my family. I was the smallest, youngest, child, the one everyone could abuse. 

I was the neglected child, uplifted by child services several times for physical abuse, neglect - i was found covered in shit because i was left in a room for 12 hours or something like that, i was 2.5 years old and i knew not to make any noise, i undressed myself, and played literally with shit, and I know this because the second wife of my equally useless father kept the records for me should i come and have questions as an older person. I remember this. I also remember the noise of angry people and the light going out. I got beat so badly i was uplifted the same day. I am a victim, but i am also a survivor.

I got raped over a period of one year 11 - 12 with my baby sister sleeping in a bed next to me and my mother being drunk in hers. I am a victim and i am a survivor. I got myself send back to a convent once a teacher during that year understood that something was very very wrong. I did that. No one else did that. I ran away from home at 15 on the first day at home because he came while no one was there. I jumped out of a window, shoes in hand and i ran. I am a victim and I am a survivor.

The night my mother died the rapist told me to wear one of her nightgowns and sleep on her side of the bed as he could not be fucked giving my brother and I a place to sleep. I was 43. years old that day and i flew in from NZ, was jet lagged and looked at my dead mother on the sofa - she died at home. I am a victim, and i am a survivor.

For an abuser it makes sense to abuse the weakest - in Smuggars worlds its girls, and specifically little ones that a. can't fight back ,and b. that can't verbalize. I would like to point out that it seems he did not abuse the oldest one, the one that had a twin. That does not mean they are weak, it just means in their setting they are the ones without value and merit. And fwiw, i consider the way that the girls grew up to be majorly abusive, mentally, physically, emotionally down to the right to actually refuse to give an education to these children, as that would empower them to leave. 

Please don't read into what you believe, read what was typed. Abuser will not abuse the strongest person, they will find the one that they consider the 'weakest' the lest protected, the one with the least value attached, and in Smuggars case women and girls have no value and are not protected as we have all learned, and to what extend.

And last but least, you are a survivor because someone made you or in my case me the victim. The two go hand in hand. But it is up to us to stop being victims, to being victimized over and over again, as we are here discussing with Anna. She still has ways to go before she will understand what happened to her, why it happened and what it takes to become a survivor. 

I am sad that you misunderstood me so, as clearly that is not what i said, or intended to say. 

I haven’t caught up until this point but you have me in tears. I had a happy childhood but I was abused in my first serious relationship and once again years later.

Abusers look for someone they can break to their will, whether it be quickly broken or slowly, weak or “strong,” they and they alone know the reasons and it is never okay. You’re right, we are victims, but WE ARE SURVIVORS. Im in tears, thus resonated with me so much.

If Jill really is set to testify against him then she is stronger than I was. I legitimately pray for her. Hashtag FreeJill. Anna…. Well, maybe I should pray for her to break and see the light.

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This week is going to be a hard week. The start of the trial was extremely harrowing and parts reported were triggering. The first day was so bad I couldn't even read the edited down reports in mainstream. There are probably going to be some difficult parts of this case to hear this week, too. 

FJ has been a safe place throughout, @HerNameIsBuffy has been amazing keeping up with the threads which have been crazily busy-and checking it remains a safe place for all. 

It sounds like there is a bit of a question mark over whether FW is reliable or not, I wonder if anyone has checked it against the NWA release each day? I cannot access either of these sources-I am not a member of FW and Europe is blocked on the NWA site.

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5 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

I hope those two are living with people who love and cherish them. I hope they are told daily how much they are loved. I hope they are encouraged to use their voices and never let anyone silence them. I can’t even begin to fathom how to begin to help them heal 

The latter two were Filipina girls rescued from the sex trade. The two co-abusers were teenage girls who were once in the victims place and then turned into abusers themselves. (I hope I can say that without a cut away if I can't LMK and I"ll add one) Sadly I don't think they'll get the help they need. That's what pisses me off so much about the fundies and their QAnon BS acting like it's only precious, mostly white, American Christian kids that are potential victims, when the vast majority of victims come from developing countries and face soooo many barriers to just the bare necessities of life. And they support political BS that stops aid from other countries unless it's bibles. I guarantee the children in the sex (abuse) industry in India, Thailand, the Philippines, Eastern Europe, don't need fucking bibles. 

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60 minutes Australia did a story about how they caught the paedophile who made the film Josh was watching.  The report is available on YouTube - 60 Minutes Australia: Catching a Monster.  Warning: they interview him and he's worse than you can imagine (if that's possible). But it does bring light to the suffering and bravery of the victims too.

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2 hours ago, zee_four said:

The latter two were Filipina girls rescued from the sex trade. The two co-abusers were teenage girls who were once in the victims place and then turned into abusers themselves. (I hope I can say that without a cut away if I can't LMK and I"ll add one) Sadly I don't think they'll get the help they need. That's what pisses me off so much about the fundies and their QAnon BS acting like it's only precious, mostly white, American Christian kids that are potential victims, when the vast majority of victims come from developing countries and face soooo many barriers to just the bare necessities of life. And they support political BS that stops aid from other countries unless it's bibles. I guarantee the children in the sex (abuse) industry in India, Thailand, the Philippines, Eastern Europe, don't need fucking bibles. 

Look into OUR rescue / Operation Underground Railroad what some very Christian people are doing about it.

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11 hours ago, Not that josh's mom said:

I read somewhere that Anna believed and said that if Trump were still president the arrest wouldn't have happen.  That the evil Dems (Biden) were out to frame Josh. Like why would anyone care about Josh Duggar?anyway like so many other things that have been reported, it might not be 100% true, but I can believe it.

Pest is a nobody and they both don't know it...yet.

I've never been waiting for the weekend to end like today.

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7 minutes ago, fish_ca said:

Pest is a nobody and they both don't know it...yet.

I've never been waiting for the weekend to end like today.

I’m so happy that Pedophile Josh Duggar is finally getting what he deserves and nothing Jim Bob and Michelle can do about it.

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13 hours ago, G33kywife said:

I really want to ask the admins in the group if they vetted the person posting the updates. It’s just bizarre that everything she shared lines up with what was reported elsewhere except for the thing with Bobye Holt’s testimony replay. It makes no sense to embellish that one thing. 

They probably assumed she would testify that day and made up tiny plausible details so it looked like they got the scoop first, then had to make up a bullshit excuse when it turned out they were wrong.

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8 hours ago, karenb4729 said:

My mother was the same way, if she didn't talk about it then it didn't happen. 

Are we siblings?  LOL.  This is why I have never and won't confront my mother about her role in my mental illness.  My therapist advised me that it wasn't worth it, and he was right.  She'd probably say "I'm sorry" in the moment, then completely put it out of her mind forever. 

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11 hours ago, molecule said:

I'm waffling on what I think about the fact that Michelle hasn't been in the courtroom. I have a son who is currently incarcerated due to a one-time violent incident. I know first-hand how incredibly difficult it is to sit there and listen to people say that your own child is a danger to the community. Nothing could have prepared me for that. So part of me is giving Michelle a pass on this, as I know how heartbreaking it can be to attend your son's courtroom appearances.

At the same time, nothing could have kept me away from court. I always told my children that no matter what they did, I would never stop loving them. It mattered to me that my son knew I was there and knew that his mother loved him. Supporting my son didn't mean I tried to justify what he'd done, or say he hadn't really done it. I was simply there to make sure he knew that he was loved, despite what the judge and the state's attorney were saying about him. Their words about him were true, and so was my love for him. 

And that's the part of me that just doesn't understand Michelle's absence. I can't imagine staying away, and I can't begin to fathom what else I would be doing during that time. I hope she at least is praying for Josh—not for him to be found not guilty, but for the truth to come out and for Josh to be prevented from hurting anyone.

 

What a loving mother you are; I hope your son grows past this incident into everything you hope for him.

I agree with you that the parental absence at this trial is shocking. Both Josh's parents and Anna's parents are completely absent. I'm genuinely surprised. I can imagine various reasons--maybe the Duggars are worried that their presence will incite extra media attention; maybe Ma Keller is looking after the M kids. But NONE of them are there? On any day? Not even Pa Keller the prison minister? Not one mention or sighting or hint of them paying any attention to this trial at all? (And we have no knowledge that Ma Keller is looking after the M kids; I'm just trying to imagine a scenario that could justify their seeming absence.)

I can't imagine washing my hands of my kids at such a significant moment. What bullshit their "children are a blessing" prattle is.

11 hours ago, Beermeet said:

When I was looking on some Sun articles yesterday,  one mentioned a screenshot taken with Josh's reflection visible.  I just remembered that. I believe the female detective that found him out mentioned it or the expert computer guy.  Does anyone remember that?

I've heard this mentioned before and I'm confused how a screenshot can show a reflection. It must have been a photo taken of the computer screen, not a screenshot, right? A screenshot is taken by the computer and is only of what the computer has produced digitally, not of anything outside of the computer, like a reflection.

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7 minutes ago, Petronella said:

I've heard this mentioned before and I'm confused how a screenshot can show a reflection. It must have been a photo taken of the computer screen, not a screenshot, right? A screenshot is taken by the computer and is only of what the computer has produced digitally, not of anything outside of the computer, like a reflection.

I was also confused but it sounds like when there were photos of customers or maybe cars in the car lot, it captured a reflection on a screen.

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David Wallers presence in the courtroom, makes me wonder (hope) that Pricilla and their kids are with Josh and the M's.  (I think his presence and thus knowledge of the details make him even more scummy then the rest of the cult and I'm surprised that a preacher is supporting a legal defence of child abuse).  I hope she's in the background supporting Anna and not still in Texas, but I don't know.

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I must look at what David Waller has to say today at the Fairpark church service.

Last week he was thanking worshippers for their prayers in a "difficult family situation", and also mentioned Jim Bob's " race" for the senate  asking them to  bathe that election in prayer and asking God to bless them.

People had asked him why in the world would the Duggars want to do that with " all this going on  " ( cue open expansive arm gesture and smile on his face)

I wonder what David thinks now. I would hope he sees things differently after all the horrific details that have come out. I hope that walking out with Josh's lawyers carrying a box was more to shield Anna from the press attention and to try and support her. 

I don't think their pastor supporting a paedophile  with a huge amount of evidence to his crime would go down very well with the congragtion of Fairpark Baptist. He has a narrow path to tread between supporting his sister in law and  distancing himself from such a vile abuser. I know they think all sins are equal but surely they must feel abhorrence and disgust

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I have been watching the body language video posted by "HerNameIsBuffy."  Because of iffy internet, I haven't watched it all, yet.  However, the entire proposal section is stomach churning.  At a restaurant with her parents, Anna has no idea what's coming.  She cringes like a scared little mouse.  Josh is in a dark suit and, especially when standing, seems to hulk over her, which causes her to hunch down even more.  Her parents leave the table during the actual proposal, and Josh says several times how big the stone is in the ring.  Then the camera crew appears and I think Anna would slide under the table if she could have.  Thanks for posting the link, Buffy.

 

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@St.Clara you make many great points in your post… I can tell you that if an early education professional came to me saying there was a serious issue or if I noticed troubling behavior to the extent of Josh… I might not know how to appropriately proceed… but I would reach out to professionals and get help, not shave his head and send him to Jesus jail and proceed with a reality TV show. Just another person here agreeing that Michelle and him bob are complete failures as parents to Josh, their daughters… all their children. 

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1 hour ago, St.Clara said:

think he felt that she loved him and he hoped that she would be able and willing to help him. She did not, though. She failed him as well as his siblings. I suppose she knows that by now and that is why she is taking the stand. Josh is probably beyond help by now. But by telling the truth about him she can, at least, help his victims and his wife and children.

 

It is very sad because every adult in his life failed him. Who knows what he could have become if she had reported this to the proper authorities the moment she was informed about his actions. 

This is possibly his last weekend of freedom for a long time, I wonder if he really understands that next Sunday he could be in jail. Or does he truly still believe he will get out of this? 

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2 minutes ago, EyesOpen said:

@St.Clara you make many great points in your post… I can tell you that if an early education professional came to me saying there was a serious issue or if I noticed troubling behavior to the extent of Josh… I might not know how to appropriately proceed… but I would reach out to professionals and get help

Which means that you will hardly ever get to be in this situation. 🙂

While it is certainly a good idea to get an expert to help deal with problematic behaviour when it occurs it does not take an early education professional in order to notice it. It is usually very obvious. The parents in question typically choose not to see it, though, and usually resist acknowledging it even when we say something. I can only speculate on why that is. I try to refrain from judging it. (If there ever were a justification for calling in child protective services I /we would obviously do that immediately.)

Thank you for your kind words.

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10 hours ago, ElizaB said:

Michelle is very interesting to me. I would say up until this point Michelle has been doing everything in her power to protect Josh without caring an ounce about her daughters. Someone mentioned earlier about her "mama bear" instincts not coming in. I think they did come in- but only for her oldest. The saying you would do anything to protect your child applies here; however, only for one of her children. She gave up the well being of her daughters to protect Josh from any consequences of his actions. She chose him. 

So why isn't she sitting at his trial? She has been covering for him for years. She has been making excuses for him for years. So the fact that she is not at his trial stuns me. 

I have two theories: 

1.) She knows that attending the trial will open up a can of worms for her. She knows she was wrong but doesn't want to confront it. By not going she can pretend all is well. 

2.) JB says no. We talk about Anna being submissive and Anna being stuck. Michelle is living in the exact same environment. She has to do what her headship says as well. Which also brings up the question- did Michelle ever really have any say in any of this? 

Agree 100%.  Michelle has always been an enigma to me. I honestly can not figure out why she hooked her wagon to Jim Bob.  She was an adorable high school cheerleader who was very popular who decided to hang with the HS unpopular religious fanatic.  Makes no sense why she wasn’t focused on heading to college to be a a Razorback or on the arm of the quarterback.  She has always left me scratching my head.  The one thing that is obvious is that once she was in JB’s web he isolated her from her family and friends.  He then turned her into a breeding machine.  The entire JB-M relationship is beyond weird.  From the always available to tracking her cycle on the kitchen calendar to having so many kids in a house to small & not enough resources to feed them:  this entire situation is beyond weird.  (Sorry for using weird so many times and quoting myself.  I think I need another cup of coffee ️!)

1 minute ago, Tatar-tot said:

Agree 100%.  Michelle has always been an enigma to me. I honestly can not figure out why she hooked her wagon to Jim Bob.  She was an adorable high school cheerleader who was very popular who decided to hang with the HS unpopular religious fanatic.  Makes no sense why she wasn’t focused on heading to college to be a a Razorback or on the arm of the quarterback.  She has always left me scratching my head.  The one thing that is obvious is that once she was in JB’s web he isolated her from her family and friends.  He then turned her into a breeding machine.  The entire JB-M relationship is beyond weird.  From the always available to tracking her cycle on the kitchen calendar to having so many kids in a house to small & not enough resources to feed them:  this entire situation is beyond weird.

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3 hours ago, imokit said:

Joy and Austin had one of the most appropriate reactions to his arrest. They were one of the few Duggars to acknowledge the victims in his crime.  Its carefully worded to be ambiguous as to if his guilty or not, but its clear acknowledgement of victims and does not try to defend child abuse.

Also notable that while sad, they didn't say shocked.

 

image.png.285c5a4ec65fd54097105447ae6b62d1.png

Yea this statement stood out to me as the most genuine and honest. It was also in stark contrast to JBooshell’s posts which are all about them and what wonderful people they think they are and how do many children wouldn’t have been born if it weren’t for the show. 

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