(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 40 : Hope NWA Has Enough Booze* to Get the Jurors Through the Weekend

[Indigo]

28 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

 

......ETA: Then at 4.49pm, a text from Josh's phone read "got stuck here," referring to the car lot.

 

Too bad Joshy won't have his iPhone in prison. He could text Anna and say, "got stuck here."

[Sabine]

2 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I want to start by saying that I am so, so sorry for what you experienced. It's never okay. Of course some abusers target perceived 'weak' targets. But I think the issue that came about from your first statement is saying that's generally the case. Every abuser is different, every situation is different, but a wide variety of people are targeted. My abuser had a thing for breaking down strong personalities. He targeted the loudest, strongest, most confident people in the room. For three years until I left, he eroded that confidence until when I left I had almost none left. This is pretty common.

I'd recommend 'Why Does He Do That' by Lundy Bancroft, he talks about the different types of abusers and who they target and how they act. It helped me come to terms with a lot of what happened to me.

I don't think you meant any offense or harm at all, and you were speaking out of your experiences, which is what we all do by instinct. So no offense was taken by me. I hold only love and hope for healing in my heart for you and I totally understand what you were trying to say. And to be fair, I'd imagine Pest more resembles your abuser(s) than mine. 

Unfortunately no experience with abuse is universal, we can all only try to meet each other where we are at on our healing journeys.

Because when it comes to child abuse and neglect, the child is the weaker one. Physically. Emotionally. Educationally. A child is no match for a manipulative adult who has set their mind on this child. 

Let me put it this way, Anna comes across as 'weak' because she has herself rendered dependent on Smuggar and his family, and her weakness - aka fear of the world and herself as a single mum - is what is keeping her there and thus her abuse is ongoing. The day she breaks this bond we will all discover her strength. This is already something we are seeing with Jill and also Derrick - as he too for a while was emotionally abused by JB and OF'JB, while he was 'mentally /and emotionally suffering' from his fathers death. 

Weak is not negative, does not need to have a negative connotation, It simply describes the very realistic fact that  someone can't find back, or is prevented from fighting back, and is thus in a weakened position. It is simply that their attacker perceives them to be no fight, easy accessible with no support. 

And we could use 'unprotected' 'vulnerable' 'assailable' 'defenseless' endangered' at the mercy of' to replace 'weak'. 

We agree I think, you and I essentially, maybe leave it at that.  

[Kayleigh83]

2 hours ago, karenb4729 said:

I think he will tell the truth or hope he will tell the truth since he hopes to have a political career.  He is being called by the prosecution so there must be some information that he has that the prosecutors want to tie to the case.  

I mean, you know who else wants a political career? Jim Bob! Sure didn’t stop him. 

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

It's taken me 2 days to catch up. Mr. Wolf asked if I'd been following the James Webb telescope progress. No, I've been following the Josh Duggar trial.

3 things:

1.  Have any of the children from the videos been rescued, do we know?

2.  Poor little M kids. Their Thanksgiving and Christmas memories will always be tainted by this trial, well the older ones at least.

3.  If Josh is found not guilty (God forbid) would the feds look for another perpetrator, or not bother, knowing that they got their man?

As to number one, from my understanding (and man do I wish I didn’t know about any of this stuff) often these kinds of videos are circulated for years, the children depicted in them may be much older or even adults now. It sounds like there were many, many images he looked at, I have no idea how many victims. I have no idea on the statistics of rescue of victims in CSAM, but I’d be interested to know if anyone else does. I imagine it would be hard to trace unless they caught the people making the videos…. Which in some cases mercifully they have.

[OrchidBlossom]

33 minutes ago, Sabine said:

Because when it comes to child abuse and neglect, the child is the weaker one. Physically. Emotionally. Educationally. A child is no match for a manipulative adult who has set their mind on this child. 

Let me put it this way, Anna comes across as 'weak' because she has herself rendered dependent on Smuggar and his family, and her weakness - aka fear of the world and herself as a single mum - is what is keeping her there and thus her abuse is ongoing. The day she breaks this bond we will all discover her strength. This is already something we are seeing with Jill and also Derrick - as he too for a while was emotionally abused by JB and OF'JB, while he was 'mentally /and emotionally suffering' from his fathers death. 

Weak is not negative, does not need to have a negative connotation, It simply describes the very realistic fact that  someone can't find back, or is prevented from fighting back, and is thus in a weakened position. It is simply that their attacker perceives them to be no fight, easy accessible with no support. 

And we could use 'unprotected' 'vulnerable' 'assailable' 'defenseless' endangered' at the mercy of' to replace 'weak'. 

We agree I think, you and I essentially, maybe leave it at that.  

I suppose we do largely agree, I think ultimately what I mean is that what someone may perceive as weak, or targetable, is different. What someone may target is different. So that may be why 'weak' is a rather charged word here. Child abusers may also be a more narrow subset where weak is more widely applicable (I can't speak to that, I was an adult DV victim).

Regardless, I would agree without question that J*sh views Anna (and women and children, generally) weak. 

I do appreciate you taking the time to explain your perspective and I know how hard it can be. Even with anonymity on a forum, it took me years to open up about my abuse to anyone but my very closest circle. The first time I mentioned it here I was shaking I was so nervous. So whenever anyone shares their perspective, I think it's incredibly brave!

7 minutes ago, Kayleigh83 said:

I mean, you know who else wants a political career? Jim Bob! Sure didn’t stop him. 

As to number one, from my understanding (and man do I wish I didn’t know about any of this stuff) often these kinds of videos are circulated for years, the children depicted in them may be much older or even adults now. It sounds like there were many, many images he looked at, I have no idea how many victims. I have no idea on the statistics of rescue of victims in CSAM, but I’d be interested to know if anyone else does. I imagine it would be hard to trace unless they caught the people making the videos…. Which in some cases mercifully they have.

As to the most 'infamous' video,

Spoiler

two of the victims in that video were rescued. One was, unfortunately, killed and her body was recovered during arrest. One of the perpetrator's conspirators had some kind of change of heart and released the other two, and they led the police to the home. 

I don't know about the photos, other videos, I only know about the one video because I felt so sick and sad that I felt compelled to find out what had happened to the victims. It was better than not knowing, for me, and having to wonder what happened to them.

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by OrchidBlossom
put info about the victims into spoiler

[Mama Mia]

3 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Actually, the abuser usually targets the strongest one. The one they can't break. It drives them crazy they can't make them cower. I think the person writing doesn't know much about abuse.

They probably just meant “weakest” as in the smallest, youngest, whoever is lowest on the family hierarchy of authority, the least likely to be believed if they speak out because they are barely verbal — that sort of thing. Not “weakest” as in emotionally weak or lacking in courage or as a negative. 

[Sabine]

4 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I suppose we do largely agree, I think ultimately what I mean is that what someone may perceive as weak, or targetable, is different. What someone may target is different. So that may be why 'weak' is a rather charged word here. Child abusers may also be a more narrow subset where weak is more widely applicable (I can't speak to that, I was an adult DV victim).

Regardless, I would agree without question that J*sh views Anna (and women and children, generally) weak. 

I do appreciate you taking the time to explain your perspective and I know how hard it can be. Even with anonymity on a forum, it took me years to open up about my abuse to anyone but my very closest circle. The first time I mentioned it here I was shaking I was so nervous. So whenever anyone shares their perspective, I think it's incredibly brave!

It happened to me. It shaped me. It explains a very strange and yet quite interesting life. But once i understood what happened to me it was easy speaking out. It happened, non of it was my fault, i did what i could to safe myself, and now i live. And to be honest, looking at my siblings who never really left their abusive surrounds and carry the scars and open wounds still, i am the one that got away because staying was never an option. Weak - i was because i was little, but that little runt that i was grew up.  Now i am a greying obstreperous lady of a certain age, and my field of fucks is empty. And the more we all speak up, the less people can hide it or pretend it away. See Bobye and Jill. 

7 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

They probably just meant “weakest” as in the smallest, youngest, whoever is lowest on the family hierarchy of authority, the least likely to be believed if they speak out because they are barely verbal — that sort of thing. Not “weakest” as in emotionally weak or lacking in courage or as a negative. 

yes. this. 

[onekidanddone]

When was Joshly get an iPhone? After the Ashley Madison scandal broke he was only trusted with an old flip phone. 

[EvilAthiest]

1 hour ago, Sabine said:

Please don't read into what you believe, read what was typed. 

 

5 hours ago, Sabine said:

And generally it is always the weakest, the designated scape goat that will get abused. 

I can read fine, thank you.

[onekidanddone]

21 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I suppose we do largely agree, I think ultimately what I mean is that what someone may perceive as weak, or targetable, is different. What someone may target is different. So that may be why 'weak' is a rather charged word here. Child abusers may also be a more narrow subset where weak is more widely applicable (I can't speak to that, I was an adult DV victim).

Regardless, I would agree without question that J*sh views Anna (and women and children, generally) weak. 

I do appreciate you taking the time to explain your perspective and I know how hard it can be. Even with anonymity on a forum, it took me years to open up about my abuse to anyone but my very closest circle. The first time I mentioned it here I was shaking I was so nervous. So whenever anyone shares their perspective, I think it's incredibly brave!

As to the most 'infamous' video,

  Hide contents

two of the victims in that video were rescued. One was, unfortunately, killed and her body was recovered during arrest. One of the perpetrator's conspirators had some kind of change of heart and released the other two, and they led the police to the home. 

I don't know about the photos, other videos, I only know about the one video because I felt so sick and sad that I felt compelled to find out what had happened to the victims. It was better than not knowing, for me, and having to wonder what happened to them.

 

I hope those two are living with people who love and cherish them. I hope they are told daily how much they are loved. I hope they are encouraged to use their voices and never let anyone silence them. I can’t even begin to fathom how to begin to help them heal 

[Smoochie]

Darn it, lost the posts I was going to quote. I don't know Fundie Wonderland, but, with regards to the differing reports from them and The Sun (and forgive me these threads are flying by and just now caught up) but, wasn't there a mention or post that the Sun's reporter wasn't in the courtroom yesterday morning?

[FiveAcres]

English words are so hard. 

Remember when your 7th grade English teacher explained the difference between connotations and denotations? I think it was 7th grade. It was over over fifty years ago so sue me. Denotation means the dictionary definition. Connotation is all the emotional baggage a word has beyond the dictionary definition. 

I like the word vulnerable as opposed to weak. Too often weak can have the connotation of moral failing. "The spirit was willing but the flesh was weak."  Vulnerable seems more neutral. "Unvaccinated people are more vulnerable to severe Covid 19 infections."  "People who watch Fox News are more vulnerable to believing misinformation." 

When writing here and elsewhere, I try very hard to

1. tell the truth as I see it and feel it
2. to use my own words
3. not force an unwarranted meaning onto other people's word. By this I mean, I think, to believe that other people are using their own words. Those words are not MY words, but I hope to still respect them. 

A few threads ago I briefly summarized an Atlantic magazine article about children who were showing signs that they might grow up to be psychopaths. Someone else found the article link for me. I reread it and was appalled that I had remembered so many details in the article incorrectly. I should have searched for the article myself and reread it before posting. I do think I got the gist when I summarized it, but we are drowning in a sea of misinformation and I hate adding to it.

I am not sure why I find the stories that we tell on FJ so riveting. My first decade, while not idyllic was not that bad for a pretty young white girl growing up in the shadow of the cold war and mutual assured destruction. My parents didn't really start decompensating until my teens between alcohol abuse and bipolar disorder. I was lucky: I had a beloved grandmother who acted as a buffer and my own methods of compensating were fairly benign: I spend my teens reading. When I escaped after early graduation from high school, I ended up with a partner who wasn't an asshole. We married too young, but here we still are over forty years later. By my late twenties, we had achieved sufficient stability that I went into therapy over adult children of alcoholics issues. 

I think I value FJ not just for the stories we tell but because it reminds me of how fragile the victories are when we tell our stories. And the fact that the victories are fragile do not diminish their value. It is tragic that we have to fight so hard for our victories, but that is all the more reason to keep fighting.   

 

[zee_four]

4 hours ago, cheeseandrice said:

I am in Carbon County.  About an hour and a half from Moab.  Yes, this part of Utah is generally much less LDS.  but I am in a little bity coal mining town of about 1700 so it more LDS than the rest of the county. The church and most of the families have been here for generations. Its really interesting because the newer generations are much more open.  The younger families tend to have stronger female family leads where the 60+generation is more fundie like.  Things are definitely changing slowly and that is a good thing.

on a side note, we opened a little metaphysical/herb shop in this little town almost a year ago and nobody has run us out of town yet.  and actually the LDS shop with us for the herbs and the herbal blend "teas" that don't actually contain tea. They just ignore the witchy stuff in the back room.  We will celebrate a year tomorrow. 

and yes I agree about Utah being great if well...it wasn't Utah.  lol

 

I know quite a few people from Price and used to drive up that way when I had to go to SLC. My ex, the super abusive one, is from Bountiful and his family goes way way back to the Pioneers even though he's like the furthest thing from LDS. Carbon County is actually one of the more diverse parts of Utah religion wise because of the mining industry was home to some of the first non LDS immigrants. They had a lot of different ethnicities come and live there to mine in the late 19th and early 20th century, Polish, German, etc. so you had Catholic, Protestant, etc. Moab isn't very LDS but further south like Monticello is much more, in San Juan County. Carbon and Grand County are pretty similar in they're loosely LDS at best, you have some old timers  who are hardline but it's a lot of successive generations slowly moving away from the church when it comes to the locals who are associated with the Church at all if that makes sense. Definitely not like the much more working class but hardcore LDS down in Hurricane and around S.t George (until it became suburban hell and grew like crazy) or the upper middle class suburban hell Stepford LDS in American Fork or Lehi or South Jordan. I grew up in Western Colorado not too far from the area, Western Colorado is pretty LDS compared to the rest of the county but not nearly like it is across the border. Are you from the Mountain West originally? It's kind of a unique place. Your shop sounds super cool, I moved back to Hawai'i going on 2 years ago in February after I was released from the hospital in St. George I spent a month in after my ex cracked my skull open and some other crap. I finally made it back to Colorado last summer, and plan on coming back next summer. If I'm in town I'll definitely come by, it sounds like an amazing shop!!

[OrchidBlossom]

29 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

I hope those two are living with people who love and cherish them. I hope they are told daily how much they are loved. I hope they are encouraged to use their voices and never let anyone silence them. I can’t even begin to fathom how to begin to help them heal 

They were both returned to their families, who were looking for them. I also know both are in therapy, or were at certain points in their lives. I also hope they feel loved and safe every day for the rest of their lives.

[cheeseandrice]

4 minutes ago, zee_four said:

I know quite a few people from Price and used to drive up that way when I had to go to SLC. My ex, the super abusive one, is from Bountiful and his family goes way way back to the Pioneers even though he's like the furthest thing from LDS. Carbon County is actually one of the more diverse parts of Utah religion wise because of the mining industry was home to some of the first non LDS immigrants. They had a lot of different ethnicities come and live there to mine in the late 19th and early 20th century, Polish, German, etc. so you had Catholic, Protestant, etc. Moab isn't very LDS but further south like Monticello is much more, in San Juan County. Carbon and Grand County are pretty similar in they're loosely LDS at best, you have some old timers  who are hardline but it's a lot of successive generations slowly moving away from the church when it comes to the locals who are associated with the Church at all if that makes sense. Definitely not like the much more working class but hardcore LDS down in Hurricane and around S.t George (until it became suburban hell and grew like crazy) or the upper middle class suburban hell Stepford LDS in American Fork or Lehi or South Jordan. I grew up in Western Colorado not too far from the area, Western Colorado is pretty LDS compared to the rest of the county but not nearly like it is across the border. Are you from the Mountain West originally? It's kind of a unique place. Your shop sounds super cool, I moved back to Hawai'i going on 2 years ago in February after I was released from the hospital in St. George I spent a month in after my ex cracked my skull open and some other crap. I finally made it back to Colorado last summer, and plan on coming back next summer. If I'm in town I'll definitely come by, it sounds like an amazing shop!!

we are in East Carbon and would love to meet you!  My dad had a job that moved us a lot so I lived all over but as an adult I lived in Colorado Springs for about 10 years.  Moved to Florida to help with hubby's mom and after she passed I couldn't get west fast enough.  DH's sister had moved out here so it seemed logical.  I had no idea Utah would be so different than Colorado on so many level's lol.  please do look us up if you come to visit.

[sndral]

5 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I agree.  Emily D Baker read the Holt testimony verbatim from the court documents and those things aren't mentioned (although it was mentioned that the abuse started years earlier when Josh was about 12.)

The other thing was they said a recording of Bobey's testimony was played in court.  It was completely incongruous as the entire day was about computer forensics.  And she's on the witness list, why play a tape even if it was relevant.  That makes no sense.

Bobye Holt’s testimony at the pretrial hearing would not be admissible during the trial because as far as the trial is concerned it is hearsay. There are a lot of exceptions which allow hearsay in, none of which are applicable here.

When Bobye testifies we may hear parts of her prior testimony if either party needs to impeach/rehabilitate her, but even that won’t involve a video - it’ll be the lawyer reading from the transcript of the prior testimony prepared by the court reporter.

[ElizaB]

Michelle is very interesting to me. I would say up until this point Michelle has been doing everything in her power to protect Josh without caring an ounce about her daughters. Someone mentioned earlier about her "mama bear" instincts not coming in. I think they did come in- but only for her oldest. The saying you would do anything to protect your child applies here; however, only for one of her children. She gave up the well being of her daughters to protect Josh from any consequences of his actions. She chose him. 

So why isn't she sitting at his trial? She has been covering for him for years. She has been making excuses for him for years. So the fact that she is not at his trial stuns me. 

I have two theories: 

1.) She knows that attending the trial will open up a can of worms for her. She knows she was wrong but doesn't want to confront it. By not going she can pretend all is well. 

2.) JB says no. We talk about Anna being submissive and Anna being stuck. Michelle is living in the exact same environment. She has to do what her headship says as well. Which also brings up the question- did Michelle ever really have any say in any of this? 

[karenb4729]

11 minutes ago, ElizaB said:

Michelle is very interesting to me. I would say up until this point Michelle has been doing everything in her power to protect Josh without caring an ounce about her daughters. Someone mentioned earlier about her "mama bear" instincts not coming in. I think they did come in- but only for her oldest. The saying you would do anything to protect your child applies here; however, only for one of her children. She gave up the well being of her daughters to protect Josh from any consequences of his actions. She chose him. 

So why isn't she sitting at his trial? She has been covering for him for years. She has been making excuses for him for years. So the fact that she is not at his trial stuns me. 

I have two theories: 

1.) She knows that attending the trial will open up a can of worms for her. She knows she was wrong but doesn't want to confront it. By not going she can pretend all is well. 

2.) JB says no. We talk about Anna being submissive and Anna being stuck. Michelle is living in the exact same environment. She has to do what her headship says as well. Which also brings up the question- did Michelle ever really have any say in any of this? 

I think both theories are on target.  Today I watched JB and Michelle's Fox interview from the molestation and Michelle is in real denial.  My mother was the same way, if she didn't talk about it then it didn't happen.  My mother did not tell me when she had a car accident where she hit an old lady walking across a cross walk and killed her.  I had to find out when a friend told me to google her name and I saw a news report even showing her in the back of a police car.  It wasn't until a few years later that I finally said that I knew what happened.  She just never wanted to mention it so she could make it disappear from her mind.  

JB is all about himself and his brand, he would tell her to stay away.  She is like a drugged zombie who will never admit she was anything less than a good mother and we all know that's the furthest thing from the truth.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

For what it's worth, Josh's friend for his teen years "Justin" ("I Pray You Put This Journal Away") says whenever he observed Michelle around Josh she barely interacted with him.

Who knows what she really felt about Josh during those days, never mind now. But she may not be there because she knows full well he's guilty and she doesn't want any further details about what he's done now.

[hethamahay]

48 minutes ago, cheeseandrice said:

we are in East Carbon and would love to meet you!  My dad had a job that moved us a lot so I lived all over but as an adult I lived in Colorado Springs for about 10 years.  Moved to Florida to help with hubby's mom and after she passed I couldn't get west fast enough.  DH's sister had moved out here so it seemed logical.  I had no idea Utah would be so different than Colorado on so many level's lol.  please do look us up if you come to visit.

Wow, small world. My great aunt and some of my cousins live in East Carbon.

[feministxtian]

@zee_four The next time you're in CO let me know, ok? I live on the east side of Denver, that little part of Englewood that is close to Aurora, Centennial and Parker. BUT...I'm willing to drive damn near anywhere to meet a FJ sister. 

I've noticed on this part of town, the LDS population doesn't seem to be that big. More generic Christian, Catholic and a small SDA population. I mean, there are meeting houses but not as big a population as there was where I lived in Arizona. Vegas LDS population was pretty small too. 

My abuser was abusive because she was pissed that she didn't get what she wanted (a boy). The father went along with it most of the time just to keep her happy. I spent a lot of time developing a mask and a fake personality to keep her from losing her shit on me. As I got older I started pushing back but it wasn't until I was probably close to 40 before I really stood up for myself. Imagine that...almost 40 and still trying to placate my abuser. 

The mind fuck is, in my opinion, worse than someone beating the shit out of me. I could handle being a punching bag but the verbal/emotional shit stays with you forever. Therapy helped me immensely, but I'm still trying to put myself back together again at my age. 

[neuroticcat]

Who knows what Michelle’s mental state is? This cult has so screwed up normal attachment for any of them that they all may well be permanently detached. We all have seen with our own eyes that she has been emotionally and physically neglectful for all of her children after the infant stage - both because of the large impossible-to-nurture numbers and the horrid teaching of the cult. And, to make it worse, she thought she was being motherly while doing it. 

To do blanket training or the Pearls stuff or any of the IBLP indoctrination severs normal maternal attachment feelings, and that would have happened so long ago. And then to have Josh the wicked teenager…I wouldn’t be surprised if the current approach is formed by the clobber Bible verses that you pull out when compliance is out of reach: “beat him with a rod so he will live” or “if he refuses to repent deliver him over to Satan.”   My guess is that any decision making now is all narcissistic at this point - how should they respond as godly parents, etc. I doubt they have capacity for genuine concerns about any of their children’s well being. I think they will finally shun Josh -  not to protect their other children - but because he is an unrepentant sinner. They can tell themselves they are doing the godly thing by keeping away from the courthouse - they are above all the media circus and can stay pure from even hearing about evil things. Those would be the spiritualized reasons at least. Anything that trickles back to them can be shouldered as persecution.  They have, what, six or seven more years until all the kids are grown? I think they can keep up some facade of it until some of the others break free. 

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

But she may not be there because she knows full well he's guilty and she doesn't want any further details about what he's done now.

My guess is this is exactly why many aren't there. 

[OrchidBlossom]

26 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

@zee_four The next time you're in CO let me know, ok? I live on the east side of Denver, that little part of Englewood that is close to Aurora, Centennial and Parker. BUT...I'm willing to drive damn near anywhere to meet a FJ sister. 

 

Not me 👀 knowing I know someone out in Colorado I hope to visit in the next year-ish...

[Anna Bolinas]

4 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I think he said he wanted to be a lawyer because he liked the idea of prestige, not because he wanted that education. He doesn't strike me as intellectually curious enough to seek out educational opportunities for the purposes of knowledge and self-improvement. I could definitely see him doing it to fill the space in his day, I just don't think he would be genuinely *interested* in it. Strikes as more of a "well I dunno what else to do" move from him.

100% agree. I don't really get the whole "Josh really hates his life and wanted so much more and had such youthful intellectual curiosity and wanted to make something of himself, and now this is his chance to escape it all" thing. To me, I don't feel like Josh feels that badly about his life. He has faced limited consequences for his actions, and in the meantime, he has reaped a lot of rewards despite what he's done. A subservient wife, a starring role in the TLC specials and then in 'X and Counting,' a cushy job with the FRC. His scandals didn't ruin the family; they just got another TV show. He certainly wasn't forced to make much in the way of public amends. There was no flogging in the square. Instead, his victims were trotted out and forced to make excuses for him. He didn't have to go out and find a job; dad gave him one. He didn't have to go out and find a house; dad gave him one. Why put in the work to be a lawyer when you can sit on your ass all day, satisfying your sadistic desires, and still be treated like the sun shines out of your asshole when you go home to your wife and kids? And speaking of the kids, I doubt he does/did much childcare at all, so even if he didn't want all those kids, it really is no skin off his nose that he has so many, because they are Anna's problem.

Overall, he strikes me as a lazy, smug, self-righteous asshole who sees no issue with espousing "Christianity" while also violating it at every turn. If he was angry as a child, I don't feel like it's there anymore. He's content to be disgusting in every sense of the word. I could easily see him expecting Anna to wait for him, adoring gaze and all, until he gets out. I mean, what, like he's going to go off on his own somewhere and have to do his own laundry and cook his own food? 

[OrchidBlossom]

3 minutes ago, Anna Bolinas said:

 

Overall, he strikes me as a lazy, smug, self-righteous asshole who sees no issue with espousing "Christianity" while also violating it at every turn. If he was angry as a child, I don't feel like it's there anymore. He's content to be disgusting in every sense of the word. I could easily see him expecting Anna to wait for him, adoring gaze and all, until he gets out. I mean, what, like he's going to go off on his own somewhere and have to do his own laundry and cook his own food? 

I agree with you, I don't think Josh wants to 'escape' his life. I think he's perfectly fine with his life as it was up until at least the first scandal, but probably after that too. He had a subservient wife and a community that made excuses for him and he suffered few social consequences beyond the initial fallout. 

I think he is angry in the way that abusive people are angry: he likes power and control and he is upset when he doesn't have it. I don't think he is angry at his community/upbringing. I don't think he's a genuinely devout christian (obviously) but I think he's perfectly happy to go along with a community that gives him, as a straight white male from a well known/respected family, a lot of power. I don't know if he genuinely believes the doctrine, if I'm honest, I doubt he has questioned it much. Josh is special, dad God has said so, and he's a bible believing christian so his actions must be right. I'd be blown away if he had given it more thought than that.