Remnant Fellowship 22: The Great & Powerful Oz-Lizabeth

[Roscoe]

Speaking on the whole Leaders going up on stage thing, the explanation I got during my RF days was that it was a show of unity behind whatever Gwen spoke about. Leadership was always careful to put up a united front and show that they were all under Gwen and agreeing with what she said. As you all probably remember, during Gwen's whole announcement of remarriage, she made a big show of having all the leaders around her, telling the congregation that they were fully in support of her decision.

 

Also, I don't know if this has ever been discussed, but shortly before Gwen married Joe and right after the announcement, there was a big women's-only gathering in the Fellowship Hall. All the RF women in Nashville over a certain age were invited to a closed meeting where Gwen basically spent a couple hours talking about how monstrous and abusive David Shamblin was and that she basically felt that she had been tricked into marrying him as a young woman and he was a horrible insulting brute to her. If memory serves, I don't think she ever insinuated anything physically abusive happened, but she did allege a lot emotional abuse. I remember this meeting vividly because Gwen was basically going through her life story and all the problems in her marriage with a huge room full of women. Weirdly, I think it kind of trauma bonded a lot of women to her because a lot of her marriage issues were huge unspoken things with a lot of Christian women and she was just going through this heart-wrenching narrative of insults and indignities that David put her through. Like, at that time I was already kind of being disillusioned by RF, but even I was really struck by her rawness in that moment and I felt for her.

Now I don't know if any of that was true about David, but she was constantly complaining about him to the Beulah women in their closed meetings in the decade previously. (Beulah women were ladies whose husbands were not RF members and they were said to carry a greater cross than ordinary members because of their persecution). Before her divorce, Gwen used her (allegedly) emotionally abusive marriage as a cudgel to keep other women (who often were in legit abusive relationships) in their marriages. She'd always tell them that she had it way worse than anyone else, that her husband was an awful, unsupportive monster, but that she stayed with him because God hates divorce and if God didn't allow her to get divorced, then no one else should. Everyone always put Gwen's personal pain on a pedestal. "She suffered and stayed with her situation and gave it to God, so you should too because your pain is nothing compared to Gwen's daily abuse."

I think a lot of groundwork had been built for the divorce when it happened. I think she used that huge public meeting with only the RF women to basically turn their sympathy to her and make them into her footsoldiers in the RF families. The RF women have always been the real engine in the church. For all the lip-service to male dominance, they are the real true believers for the most part. Her soul-wrenching several-hour account of her life to a room full of women who already idolized her was enough vulnerability to make each woman feel like she was their personal friend in an abusive relationship who was escaping into a better life, and it was each woman's duty to defend and celebrate her.

Most of RF was frothing at the mouth with happiness and excitement for Gwen's remarriage. It was seen as this huge triumph, a deliverance from slavery into the promised land. And Leadership's visible full support made it seem even more heaven-sent. I think that's one event that was experienced drastically different inside versus outside. On the outside it was a pitiable farce, this mawkish comedy of a barbie clown and an aging Hollywood z-lister with all its bizarre pageantry. On the inside it was a victorious liberation, Gwen achieving the freedom and happiness for herself that she had given so many others. She got to be the one wearing the white wedding dress and marrying Prince Charming. She got to have her happy ending with the handsome talented man, leaving her old life behind. It's everything Gwen ever wanted from God, who she always called a "Husband-Defender" and "The Bridegroom Saving the Day."

So many RF people (especially RF women) were literally living vicariously through her. That's part of the whole experience for many living inside the cult. You identify so strongly with Gwen that she becomes like you. It's also why Gwen's horrible death was so psychicly devastating and why to this day, most of the congregation refuses to leave. They saw Gwen as their dear leader but she was also their best friend. It's a deep emotional attachment that's hard to undue for many who joined her and saw their lives radically change.

[Blue]

17 hours ago, Baxsmom said:

Let's see, Durville did part of the ceremony then creepy Patrick Stites and Cliff Peters.  It was Durville who talked about Elizabeth.  From what I see Durville is Elizabth's biggest fan.

Sounds like the Peters are moving up in leadership... Have they been involved in such high profile things before?

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Is Patrick Stites as creepy in person as he appears to be in photos and videos?  I get a makes my flesh crawl vibe from him. Same vibe from Amy Stites.

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Is Patrick Stites as creepy in person as he appears to be in photos and videos?  I get a makes my flesh crawl vibe from him. Same vibe from Amy Stites.

I don't trust any parent who says there is never any arguing or quarreling in their household. Either they lie or they over control. 
 

ETA Clearly they don't play boardgames. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by noseybutt

[DietCherryCoke76]

2 hours ago, Blue said:

Sounds like the Peters are moving up in leadership... Have they been involved in such high profile things before?

Saw them involved in weddings before  They have never been top tier leadership that I recall

[mango_fandango]

On 12/19/2021 at 10:01 PM, freefromthin said:

I need to go back and listen, because there IS a place in Brentwood called Crumbl cookies. If that is the case, then they are giving out some yummy and EXPENSIVE cookies.

Prepare to drool...link to cookies provided below...

https://crumblcookies.com/brentwood

I know this is an oldish post but… this was basically me when viewing this website:

[Blue]

2 hours ago, DietCherryCoke76 said:

Saw them involved in weddings before  They have never been top tier leadership that I recall

I remember Mrs. Peters being really involved in wedding flowers (if I'm remembering correctly) but I do think it's interesting that they're taking on a higher role.

[noseybutt]

20 hours ago, Roscoe said:

 

 

Also, I don't know if this has ever been discussed, but shortly before Gwen married Joe and right after the announcement, there was a big women's-only gathering in the Fellowship Hall. All the RF women in Nashville over a certain age were invited to a closed meeting where Gwen basically spent a couple hours talking about how monstrous and abusive David Shamblin was and that she basically felt that she had been tricked into marrying him as a young woman and he was a horrible insulting brute to her. If memory serves, I don't think she ever insinuated anything physically abusive happened, but she did allege a lot emotional abuse. I remember this meeting vividly because Gwen was basically going through her life story and all the problems in her marriage with a huge room full of women. Weirdly, I think it kind of trauma bonded a lot of women to her because a lot of her marriage issues were huge unspoken things with a lot of Christian women and she was just going through this heart-wrenching narrative of insults and indignities that David put her through. Like, at that time I was already kind of being disillusioned by RF, but even I was really struck by her rawness in that moment and I felt for her.

 

When you publish a book about RF @Roscoe, I will read it. Your interpretation is super interesting.

Question regarding this paragraph here. Given Gwen was ultimately the one in charge and the queen of emotional manipulation, how much of the story about David's abuse rings true? Could it have been bi-directional? Or from her? Or not at all, and the way she needed out of the marriage that was socially acceptable?



 

[Baxsmom]

7 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Is Patrick Stites as creepy in person as he appears to be in photos and videos?  I get a makes my flesh crawl vibe from him. Same vibe from Amy Stites.

I find Parick's slimy smile to be the creepiest.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Baxsmom

[CRAnn]

On 1/3/2022 at 10:15 PM, noseybutt said:

When you publish a book about RF @Roscoe, I will read it.

Me, too, @Roscoe!

[DietCherryCoke76]

On 1/2/2022 at 6:22 AM, WeirdHarold said:

I wonder if any RF members choose to go to a Justice of the Peace or other alternative means of tying the knot.  That way they'd avoid the whole issue.

I know of 2 members that married nonmembers who did that. 

[Blue]

7 hours ago, DietCherryCoke76 said:

I know of 2 members that married nonmembers who did that. 

Did they choose to do it to avoid drama and discussions surrounding marrying non-members, or would they have flat out not been allowed to marry in the church if it was to a non-member?

[Baxsmom]

JANUARY 12th

New Year Weighdown Rally!

WOOOOO!  A new you in '22!

😅😂🤣🙄

[finacial ice]

On 12/19/2021 at 2:25 PM, ManyGoats said:

This makes me want to cry. She used to be so pretty before this gaunt, over-made-up look. 

Strange Joe calling and texting Elizabeth that. Did he think something was going to happen to her mother? Who knows.  

[finacial ice]

On 1/3/2022 at 10:15 PM, noseybutt said:

When you publish a book about RF @Roscoe, I will read it. Your interpretation is super interesting.

Question regarding this paragraph here. Given Gwen was ultimately the one in charge and the queen of emotional manipulation, how much of the story about David's abuse rings true? Could it have been bi-directional? Or from her? Or not at all, and the way she needed out of the marriage that was socially acceptable?



 

Yes I remember this gathering,. I also remember Elizabeth calling in stating that her father was a horrible husband to her mother...........Gwen also went on to tell us how wonderful Joe was and painted his past life to be amazing and perfect. WOW we have now learned that was a complete lie!!  Im sure Gwen's marriage to her ex wasn't perfect and exciting like she wanted to be after MANY years of marriage, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't the "monster" they tried to make him out to be. Living with her for all those years I'm sure he wasn't the most warm and cozy husband to her, I mean would you be? No, he didn't kiss her feet and didn't  worship the ground she walked on like she wanted him to. 

[MamaJunebug]

6 minutes ago, finacial ice said:

. I also remember Elizabeth calling in stating that her father was a horrible husband to her mother.......

Holy guacamole!  But she & her father have a good relationship now, I … hope?  What a bunch! 

[finacial ice]

1 minute ago, MamaJunebug said:

Holy guacamole!  But she & her father have a good relationship now, I … hope?  What a bunch! 

I KNOW!! Very strange.  I'm sure her mother threatened her to call in and say all that, this poor girl, clearly we all see that Michael and her have very deep emotional issues, gee, I wonder why?  

[WeirdHarold]

2 hours ago, finacial ice said:

Yes I remember this gathering,. I also remember Elizabeth calling in stating that her father was a horrible husband to her mother...........Gwen also went on to tell us how wonderful Joe was and painted his past life to be amazing and perfect. WOW we have now learned that was a complete lie!!  Im sure Gwen's marriage to her ex wasn't perfect and exciting like she wanted to be after MANY years of marriage, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't the "monster" they tried to make him out to be. Living with her for all those years I'm sure he wasn't the most warm and cozy husband to her, I mean would you be? No, he didn't kiss her feet and didn't  worship the ground she walked on like she wanted him to. 

Who would let their kids be around a monster?

Spoiler

 

[JuneJuly]

Wow Roscoe, that's so interesting and so very sad.  I always got the feeling - for no particular reason, just maybe hints in things she said -  that David was a cheater.  I could be wrong of course, but when I learned about Michael's rampant infidelities, it did make me wonder how far the apple fell from the tree.

I do feel sorry for Gwen - it's too bad she was born in a time/place where divorce was unacceptable.  But I am also angry for the people who were convinced divorce was a sin and stayed in bad marriages.  Was there any backlash about that?  Was there a wave of Remnant divorces after Gwen's?  

[Blue]

I think what obnoxious to me is that we asked for YEARS why her husband wasn't involved at all (that was a red flag to us) and we were told that he was SO supportive and were shown videos (old, obviously) of her talking about what a great husband he was. Family would talk about meeting him at random functions and how great he was...

... Then when they got divorced they talked about what an abusive monster he was...

I know we won't ever know all the nitty gritty details of their marriage, and maybe she was saying nice things to make everything look fine, but I think the fact that their kids kept good relationships with him after the divorce is telling.

 

[noseybutt]

14 minutes ago, Blue said:

I think what obnoxious to me is that we asked for YEARS why her husband wasn't involved at all (that was a red flag to us) and we were told that he was SO supportive and were shown videos (old, obviously) of her talking about what a great husband he was. Family would talk about meeting him at random functions and how great he was...

... Then when they got divorced they talked about what an abusive monster he was...

I know we won't ever know all the nitty gritty details of their marriage, and maybe she was saying nice things to make everything look fine, but I think the fact that their kids kept good relationships with him after the divorce is telling.

 

Gwen seemed to lie anytime her mouthed move. So yeah. I would be reluctant to believe anything she said about her husband.

That said, David would have been complicit and a direct beneficiary of her kingdom--no matter how far in the background he remained. For 40 years. That's a long time to have your caboose hitched to the crazy train. So yeah. It's impossible to know what really went on but I would hazard they more like minded than not and, over the course of many years, knew how to create both bliss and hell for each other.

[formergothardite]

4 hours ago, WeirdHarold said:

Who would let their kids be around a monster?

  Hide contents

 

Cutting off parents is hard. It isn’t uncommon for people to struggle with how to deal with parents they know were abusive.  She might also see him as being a bad husband but a good father. These situations are always fraught with complex emotions and people don’t always behave in the most rational ways.

David to me has always seemed like a real greedy asshole who didn’t care who was hurt as long as the money was rolling in. He helped rope people into a scam he wasn’t even following. It really isn’t hard to believe that perhaps along with being a terrible human he was also a terrible husband. Now I doubt Gwen was wife of the year, but we shouldn’t just assume Gwen lied. Especially with a guy who has shown himself to be totally unethical.  Though  I think they were really both toxic people who found each other and started a cult. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by formergothardite

[ElleHouston]

When I was in RF, Gwen use to tell us now he was cheating, but God blessed that mess and look where she is now. 
 

Usually, men who are bad husbands are really good dads. From the stories I’ve heard, David is a really good guy. That doesn’t mean shit though because people use to say the same thing about my horrible dad.  

[Baxsmom]

8 hours ago, finacial ice said:

Yes I remember this gathering,. I also remember Elizabeth calling in stating that her father was a horrible husband to her mother...........Gwen also went on to tell us how wonderful Joe was and painted his past life to be amazing and perfect. WOW we have now learned that was a complete lie!!  Im sure Gwen's marriage to her ex wasn't perfect and exciting like she wanted to be after MANY years of marriage, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't the "monster" they tried to make him out to be. Living with her for all those years I'm sure he wasn't the most warm and cozy husband to her, I mean would you be? No, he didn't kiss her feet and didn't  worship the ground she walked on like she wanted him to. 

Yeah and she probably gave him loads grief about his weight.  Nightmare.

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Cutting off parents is hard. It isn’t uncommon for people to struggle with how to deal with parents they know were abusive.  She might also see him as being a bad husband but a good father. These situations are always fraught with complex emotions and people don’t always behave in the most rational ways.

David to me has always seemed like a real greedy asshole who didn’t care who was hurt as long as the money was rolling in. He helped rope people into a scam he wasn’t even following. It really isn’t hard to believe that perhaps along with being a terrible human he was also a terrible husband. Now I doubt Gwen was wife of the year, but we shouldn’t just assume Gwen lied. Especially with a guy who has shown himself to be totally unethical.  Though  I think they were really both toxic people who found each other and started a cult. 

AGREED!  Whether Gwen lied or not, didn't she make others stay in abusive marriages? But her marriage caused a change in Remnant policy regarding divorce?  So I think her marriage became SO horrible after she met Joe. David got what he deserved and so did she.  I am glad Michael and Elizabeth's father is there for them and their kids. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Baxsmom

[DietCherryCoke76]

On 1/5/2022 at 10:14 PM, Blue said:

Did they choose to do it to avoid drama and discussions surrounding marrying non-members, or would they have flat out not been allowed to marry in the church if it was to a non-member?

Flat out not allowed