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Remnant Fellowship 22: The Great & Powerful Oz-Lizabeth


nelliebelle1197

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Talking w a fruend from Nashville - she recalls a theory going around that Mr. Lara crashed the plane rather than be exposed as cheating on Ms. Shamblin.  Yea, a “Joe was cheating, committed murder/suicide rather than be exposed & disposed of” theory. 
 

New one to me! Anybody else heard it??? 

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I haven’t finished yet but I’m glad they are adding more people and more stories giving their RF experiences. That’s what I like to hear the most. I like listening to the impact and leaving. 

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Ok I’ve watched both episodes. Talking about Delaney’s wedding day was a good way to describe RF to outsiders. They just went on with the wedding day like nothing happened. It was like everyone was in denial. Everyone put on a fake smile. The only people that weren’t in RF at the wedding were the ones who seemed visibly disturbed by the plane crash that morning. But these people in RF are so used to living in denial and they are so used to plastering on a fake smile that it came naturally to all of them. The documentary also mentioned Michael filing for divorce from Erin. It sounds like they are still in the middle of divorcing and it’s not final yet. Of course this happened after Gwen died so they drew the conclusion that maybe her death was part of why he finally filed after so many years having affairs and seeming so unhappy. I wonder if the cult will push some guy at Erin so she can quickly remarry after the divorce is final. The producers also came to the conclusion that Elizabeth is not going to step into Gwen’s shoes. We have been saying that for awhile. She has not been attending RF and only calling in on occasion. We knew she wouldn’t be able to do what Gwen did. But now it’s a huge group of leaders. We will see how that goes in the next few years. One part that about broke my heart is when the woman named Jacoby (she spells it differently but it’s pronounced the same) left RF while she was pregnant and they warned her she would be cursed when she left but decided to leave anyway. She ended up having a miscarriage and said at the time, she blamed the curse for her miscarriage and believed they were right. That was so sad. I felt horrible for her. But I’m glad she’s able to tell her story now. I’m glad so many are now able to tell their story now that Gwen is dead. 

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1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

One part that about broke my heart is when the woman named Jacoby (she spells it differently but it’s pronounced the same) left RF while she was pregnant and they warned her she would be cursed when she left but decided to leave anyway. She ended up having a miscarriage and said at the time, she blamed the curse for her miscarriage and believed they were right. That was so sad. 

Oh, I always wondered what happened to her. As I recall it, her husband at the time also left, and they ended up getting divorced. He came back to RF and "God gave back" [as the RFers say] and he remarried and now has kids.

The whole cursing thing is vile. After you leave RF, every time something awful happens, you're like, "Am I cursed? Was that a curse?" Or, hey, ya know, maybe it was just the occasional suckiness of life. Not every one in RF has a perfect life. Children get sick. Babies die. And RF frames it all as "a test" rather than "a curse". Apparently, curses are only for outsiders. And have nothing to do with plane crashes.  

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4 minutes ago, Willow said:

Oh, I always wondered what happened to her. As I recall it, her husband at the time also left, and they ended up getting divorced. He came back to RF and "God gave back" [as the RFers say] and he remarried and now has kids.

The whole cursing thing is vile. After you leave RF, every time something awful happens, you're like, "Am I cursed? Was that a curse?" Or, hey, ya know, maybe it was just the occasional suckiness of life. Not every one in RF has a perfect life. Children get sick. Babies die. And RF frames it all as "a test" rather than "a curse". Apparently, curses are only for outsiders. And have nothing to do with plane crashes.  

They also mentioned that they were told if they leave RF, they will gain all the weight they lost back again. That’s so fucked up because most people gain it back no matter what. But gaining it back after RF would be so much worse. Because it’s tied to religion. 

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I haven’t watched them yet, but an article popped up on my headlines about it and the author was critical of the people who got sucked into RF basically saying “who could believe these ridiculous things”. I think so many people don’t understand that these groups like RF first of all prey on vulnerable people. Secondly almost all the fundie groups we discuss tend to use elements from mainstream Christianity that people are used to, but take them a step or five to the extreme. So that makes it easier for people to accept them because foundation to believe this sort of stuff is already there.

For example with telling the woman she would be cursed if she leaves RF. How many mainstream churches teach that God blesses you when you obey him and withholds his blessings when you don’t? Or that people outside the will of God aren’t truly happy? Or that God will let bad things happen to get people back on the right path. These are all things I’ve heard over the years in mainstream churches. Gwen just took it to the extreme of saying her church was the only real church and went as far threatening curses. 
 

Gwen liked to pretend she had original ideas from God, but she recycled most of her stuff from other religious groups just putting a Gwen spin on it. I still struggle to grasp how new members could get past her insane looks or overlook the whole support of child killers, but it is easy to understand why people accepted her teachings. And once you make your whole life revolve around a group it is easy to just keep accepting more and more extreme things. 
 

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19 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I haven’t watched them yet, but an article popped up on my headlines about it and the author was critical of the people who got sucked into RF basically saying “who could believe these ridiculous things”. I think so many people don’t understand that these groups like RF first of all prey on vulnerable people. Secondly almost all the fundie groups we discuss tend to use elements from mainstream Christianity that people are used to, but take them a step or five to the extreme. So that makes it easier for people to accept them because foundation to believe this sort of stuff is already there.

For example with telling the woman she would be cursed if she leaves RF. How many mainstream churches teach that God blesses you when you obey him and withholds his blessings when you don’t? Or that people outside the will of God aren’t truly happy? Or that God will let bad things happen to get people back on the right path. These are all things I’ve heard over the years in mainstream churches. Gwen just took it to the extreme of saying her church was the only real church and went as far threatening curses. 
 

Gwen liked to pretend she had original ideas from God, but she recycled most of her stuff from other religious groups just putting a Gwen spin on it. I still struggle to grasp how new members could get past her insane looks or overlook the whole support of child killers, but it is easy to understand why people accepted her teachings. And once you make your whole life revolve around a group it is easy to just keep accepting more and more extreme things. 
 

They brought this up in the last episode! And I’m so glad they did. Because none of these people are stupid. The psychologist pointed out that a lot of people join at very vulnerable times in their lives. At desperate times. I’m glad they did because anyone could join a cult at some point in their lives because we are all vulnerable at some time in our lives. You just didn’t cross paths with someone trying to recruit you into a cult at that time in your life. It’s not fair to call these people dumb. They didn’t think they were joining a cult when they decided to try Gwen’s diet or go to her church one Sunday. 

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1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

They also mentioned that they were told if they leave RF, they will gain all the weight they lost back again. That’s so fucked up because most people gain it back no matter what. But gaining it back after RF would be so much worse. Because it’s tied to religion.

Fact. And you gain it back also because (a) you've lost most of your friends, (b) you feel lonely and like crap, (c) no one is looking over your shoulder watching you eat, and (d) you don't have to make sure you fit in your formalwear every month.... But this is called "The veil fell over your eyes". 

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9 minutes ago, Willow said:

Fact. And you gain it back also because (a) you've lost most of your friends, (b) you feel lonely and like crap, (c) no one is looking over your shoulder watching you eat, and (d) you don't have to make sure you fit in your formalwear every month.... But this is called "The veil fell over your eyes". 

And the fact that you starved your body for so long your body probably wants to hold onto every calorie it can get. I’m betting it messes with your metabolism. I’m no doctor. But it makes sense in my brain.

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19 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Talking w a fruend from Nashville - she recalls a theory going around that Mr. Lara crashed the plane rather than be exposed as cheating on Ms. Shamblin.  Yea, a “Joe was cheating, committed murder/suicide rather than be exposed & disposed of” theory. 
 

New one to me! Anybody else heard it??? 

I heard that rumor around the time of the crash.  It was more like a ‘mass un-living’ thing. I debunked that theory because there is no way that Brandon Hannah would have left his wife and kids to drink the kool-aid. 

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3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

They brought this up in the last episode! And I’m so glad they did. Because none of these people are stupid. The psychologist pointed out that a lot of people join at very vulnerable times in their lives. At desperate times. I’m glad they did because anyone could join a cult at some point in their lives because we are all vulnerable at some time in our lives. You just didn’t cross paths with someone trying to recruit you into a cult at that time in your life. It’s not fair to call these people dumb. They didn’t think they were joining a cult when they decided to try Gwen’s diet or go to her church one Sunday. 

One of the smartest people I know is down the Q Anon rabbit hole.

The draw to cults (and conspiracies) is emotional and attachment-based and the need to feel an existential void.  Which we all do.

What the critics forget is that people low in emotion and attachment and indifferent about making sense of the world---can be dangerous. We want people to feel and belong to community and ask philosophical questions.

If somebody gets sucked into a cult, all it means is that their "attacher" works. They just attached to an unhealthy thing.

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1 hour ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

In addition to today's release of Episode 4 & 5, there's more coming.  So much more.

https://deadline.com/2022/04/the-way-down-scripted-series-based-on-gwen-shamblin-hbo-max-docuseries-1234976733/

I want one of these 3 to play Gwen:

Toni Collette

Meryl Streep

Sharon Stone

I think all of them could play Gwen. Elizabeth could probably be played by Elle Fanning. Rob Lowe could probably do a good job playing Joe. Maybe Zac Efron for Michael. 

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I don’t think I could watch a scripted series but I SURE appreciate Ms. Zenovich, Ms. Teigen & all for TWD.  The videos of Ms. Lara with her pursed lips and undisguised sneers were absolutely repulsive.  Wonder how TWD producers got hold of such damning footage. 
 

My spiritual guides taught me never to say, “A-HA, there’s God’s punishment on [somebody].”  And I’ve SEVERELY been trained to say, “I’m glad [someone’s] dead.”  
So I will say:  I’m glad the corrupt heart of RF is no longer in existence.  
 

Also, Natasha Pavlovich is awesome.  

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5 hours ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

In addition to today's release of Episode 4 & 5, there's more coming.  So much more.

https://deadline.com/2022/04/the-way-down-scripted-series-based-on-gwen-shamblin-hbo-max-docuseries-1234976733/

Im grateful for the documentary, but I don’t think I like them moving in this direction. The whole idea reminds me of those cheesy crime re-enactment shows where the acting is bad and the writers irresponsibly deviate from the strict historical facts in order to achieve maximum dramatic effect. I liked the documentary because it was just real people saying what really happened to them. Adding acting and dramatization feels like it would cheapen what we all went through. Not to mention that it probably wouldnt actually help current members leave. Maybe Im just being a curmudgeon…

Edited by throwaway9988
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4 hours ago, throwaway9988 said:

Im grateful for the documentary, but I don’t think I like them moving in this direction. The whole idea reminds me of those cheesy crime re-enactment shows where the acting is bad and the writers irresponsibly deviate from the strict historical facts in order to achieve maximum dramatic effect. I liked the documentary because it was just real people saying what really happened to them. Adding acting and dramatization feels like it would cheapen what we all went through. Not to mention that it probably wouldnt actually help current members leave. Maybe Im just being a curmudgeon…

It's your trauma you have the right to feel the way you do. Re-enactments can have a cheesy feeling. Ultimately hopefully it will help raise awareness and maybe even a few people to leave.

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7 hours ago, throwaway9988 said:

Im grateful for the documentary, but I don’t think I like them moving in this direction. The whole idea reminds me of those cheesy crime re-enactment shows where the acting is bad and the writers irresponsibly deviate from the strict historical facts in order to achieve maximum dramatic effect. I liked the documentary because it was just real people saying what really happened to them. Adding acting and dramatization feels like it would cheapen what we all went through. Not to mention that it probably wouldnt actually help current members leave. Maybe Im just being a curmudgeon…

There’s a scripted series coming out soon called “the staircase.” There was a documentary with the same name. I’ve watched everything on this case for years. It surrounds Michael Peterson and if he killed his wife Kathleen who was found dead on the bottom of their staircase. Colin Firth will be playing Michael and I love him as an actor. I will have to watch it and see if it’s done well. If they can do this well, maybe they can do an RF movie well without it being cheesy. 

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11 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I want one of these 3 to play Gwen:

Toni Collette

Meryl Streep

Sharon Stone

I think all of them could play Gwen. Elizabeth could probably be played by Elle Fanning. Rob Lowe could probably do a good job playing Joe. Maybe Zac Efron for Michael. 

I think Meryl Streep could do the part well and give it justice.  Also, because IloveMerySteepandwantobeherwhenigrowup.

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18 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I haven’t watched them yet, but an article popped up on my headlines about it and the author was critical of the people who got sucked into RF basically saying “who could believe these ridiculous things”.

I kind of think if Gwen was still around RF might be growing. More and more people seem to be believing more and more ridiculous nonsense these days. I think it starts small and builds.

Like the Q insanity. First, it's something true that is expanded slightly to include people the target audience doesn't like. "Famous people are involved in sex trafficking children" - OK, Epstein had high ranking friends, etc. True enough. There are some famous people (ahem, I bet TRUMP for one) who have been involved with sex trafficking children, if only by being friends with Epstein and attending his events and such. Stretch it slightly and it's "The Clintons are involved in sex trafficking children." OK, Bill Clinton knew and likely traveled with Epstein (as did Trump, frequently...) And then it just gets stretched further and further from the truth into satanic cabals in pizza shop basements until you have people drinking baby blood and zombie JFK and everyone's a clone, somehow. Along the way you lose most of the critical thinkers and those willing to admit they were wrong in the face of facts, so the more ridiculous it gets the more hardcore bought-in the believers are.

I think RF started similarly and just grew and expanded and stretched into something a bit crazy. So looking at it as a whole from the outside it looks ridiculous, but if you start people easy and get them to buy in, they'll start to accept the ridiculous.

And man, people who believe in Med Beds and JFK being alive and all that sort of insanity seem like they'd be easy targets for RF to get on board. 

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21 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

@RFsurvivor and @RFSurvivor_2 how are you two feeling these days?

We’re doing good! Watched the new episodes last night and are super proud of the new ex members stepping forward to share their stories! Same thing as the first episodes, there was nothing in the episodes that we didn’t already have knowledge of personally. I was happy that the LGBT aspect was covered so directly in this round of episodes. 
 

I think Helen said it best, (to paraphrase) we are doing better financially, emotionally, physically and professionally than we ever were when we were members of Remnant Fellowship. 
 

Personally I am quite interested in this new show, who will be cast for it, and what direction they take. 

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On 4/28/2022 at 8:03 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I want one of these 3 to play Gwen:

Toni Collette

Meryl Streep

Sharon Stone

I think all of them could play Gwen. Elizabeth could probably be played by Elle Fanning. Rob Lowe could probably do a good job playing Joe. Maybe Zac Efron for Michael. 

I would say yes on Sharon Stone 😉

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My husband knows I read and watch tons of stuff on cults but I guess I’ve never told him about RF. It was kind of funny to watch his face. He was completely mind blown that someone had taken Christianity and tied it to starving yourself and made a cult out of it. He’s heard of tying Christianity with a lot of things (sex, patriarchy, prosperity, etc) for cult purposes but never considered someone could make a Christian based religion on starving yourself. 

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On 4/28/2022 at 6:26 PM, ElleHouston said:

heard that rumor around the time of the crash.  It was more like a ‘mass un-living’ thing. I debunked that theory because there is no way that Brandon Hannah would have left his wife and kids to drink the kool-aid. I am going to say you are right, not Brandon

 

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