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Lawsy & Tiffy 6: Shallow Pools, Reflecting Each Other


nelliebelle1197

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It makes me roll my eyes that she will go around saying she has a masters degree. As if it’s some major accomplishment. I would love to see her go to a rigorous college and major in something other than “Christian ministries.” I’m guessing it would be a vastly different experience. 

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A master in Christian ministry seems pretty useless for a woman, since she cant be a pastor...not that most fundie pastors even have that much education anyway.

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lol I just tried to look on the GCU website to see what curriculum this degree would entail. You can't even find basic facts about the degree program without giving them your contact info. But per the GCU College of Theology, they offer MA Christian Ministries, MA Christian Leadership, MA Urban Ministry, MA Youth/Fam Ministry, M.Div, and several graduate certificates (Biblical Foundations, Christian theology, Ministry Education, Biblical languages). All of their graduate & doctorate programs are online or evening classes.

Edited by ihaveanexamintwodays
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3 hours ago, ihaveanexamintwodays said:

lol I just tried to look on the GCU website to see what curriculum this degree would entail. You can't even find basic facts about the degree program without giving them your contact info. But per the GCU College of Theology, they offer MA Christian Ministries, MA Christian Leadership, MA Urban Ministry, MA Youth/Fam Ministry, M.Div, and several graduate certificates (Biblical Foundations, Christian theology, Ministry Education, Biblical languages). All of their graduate & doctorate programs are online or evening classes.

https://www.ptsem.edu/academics/degree-programs

Just now, patsymae said:

What strikes me is that some of these masters' programs seem to either build on existing masters or are preparation for others.

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7 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It makes me roll my eyes that she will go around saying she has a masters degree. As if it’s some major accomplishment. I would love to see her go to a rigorous college and major in something other than “Christian ministries.” I’m guessing it would be a vastly different experience. 

Well, but it IS a major accomplishment. I don’t see why it should be put-down when she is one of the very, very few people in their circle to pursue any sort of higher education, and definitely one of only a very tiny proportion to earn a Masters — and she’s a woman! I get she’s from outside their world, and she was always a good portion of the way through when she started dating Lawson, and a Liberty Political Science degree is gross (to my views) — but it’s still a big deal. Only 13% of the US population has a Masters or higher. Many, many adults obtain their education through on-line or night courses. Not sure why that is snarkable? 

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10 minutes ago, raayx01 said:

I know she was homeschooled because of acting (I think), but 22 seems very early to have a masters even for someone that graduated early.

There are one-year masters programs, so if you graduate college at 21 (which is quite common) and go straight into a masters' program, you'll have your masters at 22.

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According to the website, Grand Canyon U is accredited so they must have some standards. Good for Tiffany! She out educates all of her future in-laws. Any chance that Lawson will feel inspired to continue his abysmal education? 

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4 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

Well, but it IS a major accomplishment. I don’t see why it should be put-down when she is one of the very, very few people in their circle to pursue any sort of higher education, and definitely one of only a very tiny proportion to earn a Masters — and she’s a woman! I get she’s from outside their world, and she was always a good portion of the way through when she started dating Lawson, and a Liberty Political Science degree is gross (to my views) — but it’s still a big deal. Only 13% of the US population has a Masters or higher. Many, many adults obtain their education through on-line or night courses. Not sure why that is snarkable? 

 Sorry but to me Master doesn’t equal Master. Her Master (its content and requirements) sounds like a basic course for interested amateurs. You know, something you do for fun after work for a couple of weeks and just add a bit of information to your knowledge. I know the US allows for all forms of “accredited” degrees but I just cannot take some of them seriously.

Her Master is so far off of every theological degree you can reach here, it sounds more like classes on religion in school for teenagers.

Is it great if those women further their knowledge at all? Sure. But it just shows how narrow their opportunities actually are. I would argue every basic home making course at a communication college would educate them more, practically and intellectually (you know converting measurements, mental calculations, learning about ingredients, budgeting, having some form of chemical understanding so you can easily swap ingredients, origin of meals, ingredients and crafts….).

Edited by just_ordinary
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I don’t think we’ll see much traditional homemaking from these two. I think they’ll go down the Vuolo route of posing in restaurants and tagging anything and everything in the hope of a freebie. 

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I’ll just say not all masters programs are the same (just like not all homeschool educations are the same).

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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“The Grand Canyon University accreditation class action lawsuit was filed by Katie Ogdon who signed up for Grand Canyon University Master of Science in Psychology with an emphasis in Health Psychology program. 

Ogdon says she did this because she was told that the program was a suitable way to reach her intended career. 

However, she claims to have later discovered that the school did not have the appropriate accreditation to allow her to qualify for licensure as a mental health therapist in California, as she had intended.”

^^^What’s the point of this person getting a masters if she can’t even become licensed? That’s a huge waste of time and money. And it’s incredibly misleading on their part. If you can’t tell, I don’t look too highly on GCU just like I don’t look too highly on Liberty. 
 

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/education/grand-canyon-university-class-action-alleges-accreditation-scam/

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I guess I can’t stop talking about this because I keep posting! But I’m very happy for Anna and Mary Maxwell for going to WV to attend college. I honestly think they will learn almost nothing substantial from their classes. However they are living states away from their home and controlling father. They are meeting new people. They are having new experiences. That’s part of college in my opinion. However Tiffany is not doing that. She didn’t go live in a dorm with new and different people. She seemed to do everything online. And it was obviously not that rigorous if she was gallivanting around the US with Lawson taking pictures of their food every five minutes and going to Europe to get engaged. This isn’t some growing and learning experience. She’s likely the exact same person she was before she started this online program. 

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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7 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

 Sorry but to me Master doesn’t equal Master. Her Master (its content and requirements) sounds like a basic course for interested amateurs. You know, something you do for fun after work for a couple of weeks and just add a bit of information to your knowledge. I know the US allows for all forms of “accredited” degrees but I just cannot take some of them seriously.

Her Master is so far off of every theological degree you can reach here, it sounds more like classes on religion in school for teenagers.

Is it great if those women further their knowledge at all? Sure. But it just shows how narrow their opportunities actually are. I would argue every basic home making course at a communication college would educate them more, practically and intellectually (you know converting measurements, mental calculations, learning about ingredients, budgeting, having some form of chemical understanding so you can easily swap ingredients, origin of meals, ingredients and crafts….).

That's awfully assumptive of you to state her Master's curriculum sounds like a basic course for amateurs/teenagers, considering we know nothing about the curriculum, professors, coursework, anything. We know absolutely nothing about whether her Christian Ministries studies are bible courses meant for teenagers (I'd guess not given GCU is a Christian univ and almost certainly does have freshman-level religion classes) or are taught with deeper understanding, argument, and application. I'm not saying you aren't right, you very well could be and that wouldn't be surprising at all, I'm just saying we have absolutely nothing indicating it. Other than "online" coursework, which is nothing to sniff at inherently. Hello, pandemic.

Many people get their graduate degrees at least in part online, bc their lives are busy - MBA, M.Ed, DNP, MSW, MPH and any number of Ph.D and MA/MS programs - why sit in a classroom for lectures when you can do it online? Mtgs with advisors, defending theses and dissertations, any sort of clinical practicum, of course those are necessary for some degrees more than others. 

Again, do I believe she will use her graduate degree in any way? No. Not everyone uses their degrees anyways - heck, most people don't use high school algebra or the periodic table of elements, yet it's standard education. Do I think her Masters' program was as rigorous as others? No. I'm just saying, Tiffany has enough other eye-roll, let the woman be proud of herself. It's still more of an achievement than "getting proposed to" xD 

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20 minutes ago, ihaveanexamintwodays said:

That's awfully assumptive of you to state her Master's curriculum sounds like a basic course for amateurs/teenagers, considering we know nothing about the curriculum, professors, coursework, anything. We know absolutely nothing about whether her Christian Ministries studies are bible courses meant for teenagers (I'd guess not given GCU is a Christian univ and almost certainly does have freshman-level religion classes) or are taught with deeper understanding, argument, and application. I'm not saying you aren't right, you very well could be and that wouldn't be surprising at all, I'm just saying we have absolutely nothing indicating it. Other than "online" coursework, which is nothing to sniff at inherently. Hello, pandemic.

Many people get their graduate degrees at least in part online, bc their lives are busy - MBA, M.Ed, DNP, MSW, MPH and any number of Ph.D and MA/MS programs - why sit in a classroom for lectures when you can do it online? Mtgs with advisors, defending theses and dissertations, any sort of clinical practicum, of course those are necessary for some degrees more than others. 

Again, do I believe she will use her graduate degree in any way? No. Not everyone uses their degrees anyways - heck, most people don't use high school algebra or the periodic table of elements, yet it's standard education. Do I think her Masters' program was as rigorous as others? No. I'm just saying, Tiffany has enough other eye-roll, let the woman be proud of herself. It's still more of an achievement than "getting proposed to" xD 

But that’s the problem. People assume shitty for profit colleges are just as good because no one questions them! They need to be questioned. People need to know some colleges are a scam. If a college leads you to believe your masters will lead you to licensure when it in fact does not, it’s not a good college. Colleges like Liberty, Crown college, and Grand Canyon need to be held accountable. They can’t be held accountable if everyone pretends they are a great school and graduating from them is a great accomplishment. Tiffany has plenty of followers on social media. I bet there will be some girls out there thinking they could go to college at GCU like Tiffany and scammed out of money like others. 

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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35 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

But that’s the problem. People assume shitty for profit colleges are just as good because no one questions them! They need to be questioned. People need to know some colleges are a scam. If a college leads you to believe your masters will lead you to licensure when it in fact does not, it’s not a good college.

Agreed that it's a real problem.  Where licensure is required in addition to the degree but the degree program is not recognized by the licensing organization means a lot of wasted money and effort.   Sure graduation can be an accomplishment but it's going to be for naught if the student cannot obtain necessary licensure because the school was not honest with them to begin with.  

 

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5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I guess I can’t stop talking about this because I keep posting! But I’m very happy for Anna and Mary Maxwell for going to WV to attend college. I honestly think they will learn almost nothing substantial from their classes. However they are living states away from their home and controlling father. They are meeting new people. They are having new experiences. That’s part of college in my opinion. However Tiffany is not doing that. She didn’t go live in a dorm with new and different people. She seemed to do everything online. And it was obviously not that rigorous if she was gallivanting around the US with Lawson taking pictures of their food every five minutes and going to Europe to get engaged. This isn’t some growing and learning experience. She’s likely the exact same person she was before she started this online program. 

This doesn’t apply to Tiffany, as she clearly has a lot of $$ - that’s she’s earned - but, respectfully, there is just a huge amount of classism in that whole statement. Many, maybe most, people who attend college don’t have the luxury of treating it like grown-up training wheels. Being 18-21 Living in a dorm states! away  (meaning vastly higher tuition), not working - is a gigantic privilege. It’s a great one if someone wants it and can do it — but it’s hardly a requirement for obtaining an education. Her traveling about while attending on-line school is no more telling than the huge number of students who hold down a job and/or care for their families while completing courses. 
 

Sure, for profit colleges can be a scam, or not give as strenuous an education, and should be called out if their degrees are pure junk-but there are untold number of people don’t “benefit”  from obtaining their degree regardless. 

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8 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

This doesn’t apply to Tiffany, as she clearly has a lot of $$ - that’s she’s earned - but, respectfully, there is just a huge amount of classism in that whole statement. Many, maybe most, people who attend college don’t have the luxury of treating it like grown-up training wheels. Being 18-21 Living in a dorm states! away  (meaning vastly higher tuition), not working - is a gigantic privilege. It’s a great one if someone wants it and can do it — but it’s hardly a requirement for obtaining an education. Her traveling about while attending on-line school is no more telling than the huge number of students who hold down a job and/or care for their families while completing courses. 
 

Sure, for profit colleges can be a scam, or not give as strenuous an education, and should be called out if their degrees are pure junk-but there are untold number of people don’t “benefit”  from obtaining their degree regardless. 

Ha! You would be shocked by how many poor and working class people are scammed out of money by for profit schools! They push them to take out huge loans that they know will never be paid back! This school saw Tiffany coming a mile away. She has the money to pay for this school without loans. She could probably pay out of pocket! 
 

BTW we are talking about fundies here. And if you don’t think Fundies make their kids do online school so they can keep them at home and controlled, then I don’t know why you’re on FJ. Going away to college and living in a dorm isn’t as much about money for fundies than it is control. I can’t help but laugh at the classism comment. 

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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16 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You would be shocked by how many poor and working class people are scammed out of money by for profit schools! They push them to take out huge loans that they know will never be paid back!

Here's Mr. No's story on his luckily very short experience with for profits.  Back during the Great Recession, he was out of work for 2 years.  During that time, he signed up for state-paid "training" and his training coordinator didn't just push but insisted he take training at for the profit school instead of the community college 1 mile from our house.   Since it was state-funded Mr. No didn't have to pay but the tuition took out a LOT more of the money he was allotted and only covered 2 classes.  Had he gone to the community college the allotment would have paid for more courses but his coordinator would have none of it.  Go to the for profit or else. That for profit college is now closed and is a known scam.

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2 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

Here's Mr. No's story on his luckily very short experience with for profits.  Back during the Great Recession, he was out of work for 2 years.  During that time, he signed up for state-paid "training" and his training coordinator didn't just push but insisted he take training at for the profit school instead of the community college 1 mile from our house.   Since it was state-funded Mr. No didn't have to pay but the tuition took out a LOT more of the money he was allotted and only covered 2 classes.  Had he gone to the community college the allotment would have paid for more courses but his coordinator would have none of it.  Go to the for profit or else. That for profit college is now closed and is a known scam.

What’s funny is that when Michael Bates went to community college, I was thrilled. Because it wasn’t Crown! Community college is a great option and they usually aren’t out to scam you out of a bunch of loan money. 

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9 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

What’s funny is that when Michael Bates went to community college, I was thrilled. Because it wasn’t Crown! Community college is a great option and they usually aren’t out to scam you out of a bunch of loan money. 

I attended our nearby community college a couple of times.  I already had a BA, I attended for some accounting classes and a certificate.   Teachers were mostly good and I honestly think the administration did more for their students than the college I got my BA from.   The tuition was reasonable.   After the classes at the for profit Mr. No attended this college as well. 

I thought it was great that Michael went to the community college and not Crown.   Because she was getting something that would work in the real world, have transferable credits should she decide to continue (which she did) and not just be limited to jobs that would take a Degree of Biblical Studies in Whatever.

 

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Sorry but isn’t paying rent and working next to being a full time student not the norm in the US as well? That’s the reality here for the vast majority. I mean, yes, we don’t have those insane fees, but university still costs money as do books, stationary, electronic devices, renting (dorm rooms are very very rare), food, insurance, phone bills…. People getting it all paid for by their parents are in the minority. Most parents try to help out financially but almost everyone has to work a side job all while attending (online or presence) classes, laboratory or other presence requirements, doing their reading and research and writing their essays and learning. I would be highly annoyed that after all this my degree is not even worth the paper it’s printed on.

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32 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

Sorry but isn’t paying rent and working next to being a full time student not the norm in the US as well? That’s the reality here for the vast majority. I mean, yes, we don’t have those insane fees, but university still costs money as do books, stationary, electronic devices, renting (dorm rooms are very very rare), food, insurance, phone bills…. People getting it all paid for by their parents are in the minority. Most parents try to help out financially but almost everyone has to work a side job all while attending (online or presence) classes, laboratory or other presence requirements, doing their reading and research and writing their essays and learning. I would be highly annoyed that after all this my degree is not even worth the paper it’s printed on.

I attended college while holding down a job to pay for it, attending classes and trying to get the work done in between.  Didn't live on campus because college was about 2 miles away and saw no reason to pay to basically move 2 miles away though some college administrator didn't like it.   I got some help from my folks for tuition but rest of tuition, books, fees, transportation etc. was on me.  It was hard work and while my school was accredited  (I made sure it was) had there been any question regarding accreditation I would have not gone there.   In fact, I remember my high school counselor telling me while looking for colleges to make sure on accreditation first because otherwise, in his exact words, I was wasting my time. 

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Going away to college and living in a dorm isn’t as much about money for fundies than it is control.

ETA:  This is why I think places like Crown were so good for the Bateseseses.   They could get kudos for letting their kids go to college and spinning it like they allowing their kids freedom (and therefore looking less "fundie") but underneath it's all about control.   We don't know what the real deal was with Erin's supposed "scholarship" but if it was true and assuming she wanted to go, then it was more about her parents maintaining control rather than giving their daughter the best opportunity.  How Michael managed going to the "secular" community college was IMHO probably because she could live at home; it would have been a completely different story if she wanted to go away.  And that's why I think it's a major shift in the Maxwell family letting 2 daughters go away to school because honestly I never thought Steveovah in a million years would let his unmarried daughters out of the house much less attend school hundreds of miles away. 

Edited by nokidsmom
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1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Ha! You would be shocked by how many poor and working class people are scammed out of money by for profit schools! They push them to take out huge loans that they know will never be paid back! This school saw Tiffany coming a mile away. She has the money to pay for this school without loans. She could probably pay out of pocket! 
 

BTW we are talking about fundies here. And if you don’t think Fundies make their kids do online school so they can keep them at home and controlled, then I don’t know why you’re on FJ. Going away to college and living in a dorm isn’t as much about money for fundies than it is control. I can’t help but laugh at the classism comment. 

Edited to take out long response. Never mind. Not worth it. 

Edited by Mama Mia
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