Erin & Chad 8: Hasbro Paine, Cleveland Paine, Labour Paine

[BensAllergies]

What’s sad about the Florida situation is that it was completely avoidable. Both states have had very similar vax rates, and both have high heat in the summer that keep people indoors. But look at the most recent waves in CA and FL as detailed on COVID Act Now. Stark difference! And without a multi-layered mitigation strategy for the next wave, it’s likely going to happen again.

Spoiler

 

[Smoochie]

21 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Florida now has the lowest recent case rate in the country. You may be safer there than in California. In fact, California's numbers are rising pretty fast right now.

There's also the issue with FL in that they haven't been reporting correctly or accurately from the start. They often go days without releasing information, then go back weeks later and update the numbers and unless it has changed and I doubt it, they also exclude anyone who is not a permanent resident of FL.

[Jackie3]

33 minutes ago, Smoochie said:

There's also the issue with FL in that they haven't been reporting correctly or accurately from the start. They often go days without releasing information, then go back weeks later and update the numbers and unless it has changed and I doubt it, they also exclude anyone who is not a permanent resident of FL.

True! California has this problem, too.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article250981409.html

[Jackie3]

8 hours ago, Melbelle said:

I know I'll get flack for saying this, but after endless conversations and consideration of the situation, remaining locked down and avoiding regular life just didn't seem necessary based on our family's risk factors and the statistics for infections and such in our area.

Why would you get flack? Do you think most FJers are locked down at home, wiping down their mail, waving to grandma through the window and getting everything delivered?

Most are getting up tomorrow, going to work or school, stopping at the store, visiting friends--in other words, living a normal life. If you are doing the same, why would anyone give you flack?

In fact, all the healthy people I know are going about their lives as normal (with masks). Most of the at-risk people I know are doing so also.

[meep]

Speaking of names that were once unisex, I absolutely ADORE the name Shannon for boys, but for some reason I don't really like it for girls. Of course it's almost always applied to girls here (in the midwest USA) and almost never boys. 

[Jackie3]

22 minutes ago, meep said:

Speaking of names that were once unisex, I absolutely ADORE the name Shannon for boys, but for some reason I don't really like it for girls. Of course it's almost always applied to girls here (in the midwest USA) and almost never boys. 

I tend to think, "Would my son want to be named X"?

Would my son want to be named Shannon? Would he want to go through life with that name? I'd think not, honestly.

 

[JanasTattooParlor]

7 hours ago, meep said:

Speaking of names that were once unisex, I absolutely ADORE the name Shannon for boys, but for some reason I don't really like it for girls. Of course it's almost always applied to girls here (in the midwest USA) and almost never boys. 

My husband actually has an uncle named Shannon!  I thought it was really strange at first; I had only ever met female Shannons, but it’s grown on me for a man. It has all soft syllables, which is common with a lot of trendy boys names these days, but since it’s been associated with women there’s no way it’ll circle back to being a male name. 

[theotherelise]

I think something at play here with names is ingrained misogyny. Some people don't want their daughter to have a really "girly" sounding name. So they pick a name traditionally used with boys (Courtney, Kelly, Ashley, Brooke, Taylor, Quinn, Addison, Avery, Emerson, Spencer, Ryan) because their daughter *isn't like other girls*. But as the momentum picks up, the name that was once gender-edgy is seen as more and more feminine. So parents looking for non-girly names have to keep using more and more traditionally boy names. Rachel Hollis' daughter is named Noah. 

Now, none of this is a problem as such and I find that I frequently really like the name being used that way. But the misogyny comes back in when you realize that once a name is perceived as feminine, parents will stop using it for boys because they don't want a boy to have a name that girls have. The shift only moves one way and that way is all built on girly things being less desirable or able to be taken seriously.

I have certainly found some of that thinking in my own psyche. I don't have a daughter, but even here when we might snark on Alyssa Webster's name choices, I will find myself agreeing with takes like, "Supreme Court Justice Maci Jo sounds ridiculous." But maybe I should be doing more work on myself to explore why someone named Maci doesn't sound professional or serious. 

[Nothing if not critical]

2 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

Rachel Hollis' daughter is named Noah. 

When my daughter was a baby, one of the kids in her playgroup was called Noa, and her mother took great pains to point out that no, that was the female version of the name, and Noah spelled with an h was the male version. Now, my Hebrew is a little rusty (cough), so I can't confirm or deny, but it always seemed overly complicated to me....

[Jackie3]

17 hours ago, BensAllergies said:

Both states have had very similar vax rates, and both have high heat in the summer that keep people indoors.

California is a HUGE state. It has a great variety in weather, depending on elevation and proximity to the ocean. You really can't say California weather is one way or another. In any event, most of California is nothing like Florida.

The coastal regions of California (LA, San Fran) have quite pleasant summers. San Fran doesn't get hot at all, maybe low 70s, certainly not "high heat." They dont' even need air conditioners there! 

LA rarely gets above 85 in summer.  There are parts of central CA that can get hot, but it's rarely like Florida.

In either case, the weather doesn't "keep people indoors" in LA or San Fran, unless they have a medical or skin condition of some sort.

In contrast, many regions of Florida can easily go over 90 or 95. Even worse, it's hot AND humid, stick and awful. AC is a huge lifesaver there. Blech!

Edited November 5, 2021 by Jackie3

[BensAllergies]

1 hour ago, Jackie3 said:

California is a HUGE state. It has a great variety in weather, depending on elevation and proximity to the ocean. You really can't say California weather is one way or another. In any event, most of California is nothing like Florida.

The coastal regions of California (LA, San Fran) have quite pleasant summers. San Fran doesn't get hot at all, maybe low 70s, certainly not "high heat." They dont' even need air conditioners there! 

LA rarely gets above 85 in summer.  There are parts of central CA that can get hot, but it's rarely like Florida.

In either case, the weather doesn't "keep people indoors" in LA or San Fran, unless they have a medical or skin condition of some sort.

In contrast, many regions of Florida can easily go over 90 or 95. Even worse, it's hot AND humid, stick and awful. AC is a huge lifesaver there. Blech!

I’ve lived in two different regions of California for most of my life. One region, in the north near the capital, regularly gets days over 100 in the summer. The East Bay is also regularly hot in the mid 90s. And San Francisco has been more prone lately to heat waves, which is awful for all of the folk (especially the elderly) without AC.

I didn’t mention them but the wildfires absolutely kept people indoors this past summer.

I was making a general comparison because someone else mentioned people staying indoors in Florida in the summer. If that is true then the same general assumption could be made about many parts of California. The vax rates are also not equal as California is slightly ahead, but again it was a very general comparison.

 

ETA: I miss the hot, dry weather. I don’t live in either Florida nor California but I live somewhere in the middle that gets humidity and it’s awful.

Edited November 5, 2021 by BensAllergies

[PinkGreyBrown]

The wildfires not only drove people indoors but the smoke from them also makes people more vulnerable to Covid-19. The wildfire smoke probably made the Covid-19 epidemic worse in those states.

[Alisamer]

14 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Would my son want to be named Shannon? Would he want to go through life with that name? I'd think not, honestly.

See I know of more male Shannons than female ones! I like it better as a male name. I have known men of various ages named Shannon, Courtney, Meredith, Casey, Ashley, Aubrey, Gail, Riley, Sidney, Loren, Jordan, Francis, etc. All also names I've seen used for girls. Those unisex names do seem to be shifting more toward "girl" names over time, though. 

Shannon, Jordan and Casey were more male when I was a kid, though, I think. 

I have a great-grandfather named Hester! 

I like mixing names up. I'd absolutely have considered naming a boy Ashley. I'd have given him a more traditionally "male" middle name and called him Ash. Then when he was old enough he could be Ash from Evil Dead for Halloween.

[Pammy]

3 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

When my daughter was a baby, one of the kids in her playgroup was called Noa, and her mother took great pains to point out that no, that was the female version of the name, and Noah spelled with an h was the male version. Now, my Hebrew is a little rusty (cough), so I can't confirm or deny, but it always seemed overly complicated to me....

In Hebrew, the vast majority feminine nouns end with either an "h" sound or a "t" sound. Not that masculine nouns can't end with those letters (some do) but there's a pattern for feminine forms.

In the Bible there is both the a Noah (the well-known one) and a female Noah (in an obscure verse about someone's daughters). Both are spelled in Hebrew with the final "h" and most translations (including the KJV) render them the same. My research reveals only one translation using the "Noa" spelling of the female case -- the  "Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition". So, if you are big into 1899 Americana, you could feel right at home using Noa... otherwise, that reasoning about the Hebrew language in general makes no sense at all.

[JMO]

Erin has been leaning heavy into her Jesus talk. Guess now that she has her little miracle she feels anointed by God for her faithfulness. It's actually getting a little insufferable. 

[llucie]

On 11/6/2021 at 1:26 AM, JMO said:

Erin has been leaning heavy into her Jesus talk. Guess now that she has her little miracle she feels anointed by God for her faithfulness. It's actually getting a little insufferable. 

I feel like all her youtube videos lately are trying to sell something from her new store. It all starts by her trying to be relatable with her struggles the last year, then she explain how that made her turn to God and inspired her to make this product that you can buy in her store to be as blessed as her.

 

[rebeccawriter01]

1 hour ago, llucie said:

I feel like all her youtube videos lately are trying to sell something from her new store. It all starts by her trying to be relatable with her struggles the last year, then she explain how that made her turn to God and inspired her to make this product that you can buy in her store to be as blessed as her.

 

I agree. It's simply another sales tactic. 

[SorenaJ]

4 hours ago, llucie said:

I feel like all her youtube videos lately are trying to sell something from her new store. It all starts by her trying to be relatable with her struggles the last year, then she explain how that made her turn to God and inspired her to make this product that you can buy in her store to be as blessed as her.

 

Is that sales technique not bordering on using God’s name in vain? 

[Jrodseyeliner]

6 hours ago, llucie said:

I feel like all her youtube videos lately are trying to sell something from her new store. It all starts by her trying to be relatable with her struggles the last year, then she explain how that made her turn to God and inspired her to make this product that you can buy in her store to be as blessed as her.

 

Turn to God??? … When did she ever turn away from the bible humping and Jesus juice??? 😂😂😂😂

[Melissa1977]

On 11/5/2021 at 4:39 PM, Nothing if not critical said:

When my daughter was a baby, one of the kids in her playgroup was called Noa, and her mother took great pains to point out that no, that was the female version of the name, and Noah spelled with an h was the male version. Now, my Hebrew is a little rusty (cough), so I can't confirm or deny, but it always seemed overly complicated to me....

Noa has been a very popular girl name in Barcelona the last decade. Not for religious reasons, though. Just because it sounds cool. Noah is not used for boys here, at least it is very very uncommon, but definitely the last H makes it a male name. It is funny because in Spanish and Catalan, Noa and Noah sound identical.

[Bobology]

3 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

in Spanish and Catalan, Noa and Noah sound identical.

They sound identical in the central area of the  USA, too

[artdecades]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:39 AM, Nothing if not critical said:

When my daughter was a baby, one of the kids in her playgroup was called Noa, and her mother took great pains to point out that no, that was the female version of the name, and Noah spelled with an h was the male version. Now, my Hebrew is a little rusty (cough), so I can't confirm or deny, but it always seemed overly complicated to me....

Noa is one of the most common girls names in Israel. Not sure why you are being skeptical  over its existence. 
 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/mohammad-again-most-popular-baby-boys-name-tamar-knocked-off-top-by-miriam/amp/

[Nothing if not critical]

36 minutes ago, artdecades said:

Noa is one of the most common girls names in Israel. Not sure why you are being skeptical  over its existence. 

I’m not sceptical over its existence. As I said, I simply didn’t know whether that lady’s statement was true, so thanks for clearing that up.
My point was that Noah with an h is very popular for boys here right now, and since the two names are pronounced the same, it just seems like a hassle for the kid to always have to explain that no, it’s a girl’s name because it’s spelled differently. But, obviously, YMMV, and if Noa for girls is common where you live, it would be a non-issue. 

[AuntCloud]

On 11/5/2021 at 9:39 AM, Nothing if not critical said:

When my daughter was a baby, one of the kids in her playgroup was called Noa, and her mother took great pains to point out that no, that was the female version of the name, and Noah spelled with an h was the male version. Now, my Hebrew is a little rusty (cough), so I can't confirm or deny, but it always seemed overly complicated to me....

I can confirm. Because neither language transcribes well into the other, two distinctly different names in Hebrew sound very similar in English.

Short version: Noa (נוֹעה) is a common name for girls, consistently in the top 10 for girls in the last 25 years.

Noah (נּח) is a traditional male name. It’s considered old-fashioned so not super popular but is definitely not going anywhere. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/נח

Funny how the definition of “totally mainstream” and “obscure”/“why would you stick your child with this name” is so different between cultures - see my post on the name Boaz in the Zsu thread. In the US, Boaz is obscurely biblical - same as Yael and Noa, while Noah and Ezra are nbd. In Israel, Noah and Ezra are old people names, at least among the non-Orthodox. Boaz, Yael, Noa (also Yoav, who was king David’s chief of staff, Michal, Tamar) - all are garden-variety common and I know several people with these names.

Long version: Hebrew has guttural vowels that just don’t transcribe to English. The letters ח and ע transcribe as h/ch (think challah or hannuka) and a/e depending on context, but Hebrew had specific letters for h (ה) and a/e (א). So two difference Hebrew words that have ע and א would be transcribed exactly the same to English. עבר and אמר are very different but transcribed as avar and amar. The name Noa has ע, transcribed as a, and the name Noah contains ח, transcribed as (silent) h. This is how two completely different names are flattened into sameness in English. Cloudlet #1’s name is a lovely, common-ish but not trendy Hebrew name. It contains an ע and a traditional Hebrew emphasis on the last vowel, in Canada it’s… Anglicized. And we’re ok with it. Some names just don’t translate very well, she just gives the name “Sarah” at Starbucks so as not start spelling her name. Cloudlet #2’s name is common in English as well as Hebrew so they had very different experiences. 

In retaliation, English has created the bane of beginner Hebrew-speaking English learners: T/Th (aren’t tree and three the same word?), short i/long ee (aren’t bit, beet and beat the same word?) and the frankly fictional laws of pluralizing. So I guess we’re even. 
 

ETA: not a jab at you, at all, but most mono-cultural people don’t really have a concept of how things are done differently in other cultures, and that things can be done differently at all. Israeli students have the hardest time understanding the idea behind tu/vous (addressing your peers differently than you would address a grown up) or addressing an adult as Ms. X rather than by their first name. May learn the difference the hard way when moving away or travelling because it’s something that simply doesn’t exist in Israeli culture. And it’s ok. But what seems overly complicated to you is totally natural in another language/culture. 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by AuntCloud

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

42 minutes ago, AuntCloud said:

I can confirm. Because neither language transcribes well into the other, two distinctly different names in Hebrew sound very similar in English.

Short version: Noa (נוֹעה) is a common name for girls, consistently in the top 10 for girls in the last 25 years.

Noah (נּח) is a traditional male name. It’s considered old-fashioned so not super popular but is definitely not going anywhere. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/נח

Funny how the definition of “totally mainstream” and “obscure”/“why would you stick your child with this name” is so different between cultures - see my post on the name Boaz in the Zsu thread. In the US, Boaz is obscurely biblical - same as Yael and Noa, while Noah and Ezra are nbd. In Israel, Noah and Ezra are old people names, at least among the non-Orthodox. Boaz, Yael, Noa (also Yoav, who was king David’s chief of staff, Michal, Tamar) - all are garden-variety common and I know several people with these names.

Long version: Hebrew has guttural vowels that just don’t transcribe to English. The letters ח and ע transcribe as h/ch (think challah or hannuka) and a/e depending on context, but Hebrew had specific letters for h (ה) and a/e (א). So two difference Hebrew words that have ע and א would be transcribed exactly the same to English. עבר and אמר are very different but transcribed as avar and amar. The name Noa has ע, transcribed as a, and the name Noah contains ח, transcribed as (silent) h. This is how two completely different names are flattened into sameness in English. Cloudlet #1’s name is a lovely, common-ish but not trendy Hebrew name. It contains an ע and a traditional Hebrew emphasis on the last vowel, in Canada it’s… Anglicized. And we’re ok with it. Some names just don’t translate very well, she just gives the name “Sarah” at Starbucks so as not start spelling her name. Cloudlet #2’s name is common in English as well as Hebrew so they had very different experiences. 

In retaliation, English has created the bane of beginner Hebrew-speaking English learners: T/Th (aren’t tree and three the same word?), short i/long ee (aren’t bit, beet and beat the same word?) and the frankly fictional laws of pluralizing. So I guess we’re even. 
 

ETA: not a jab at you, at all, but most mono-cultural people don’t really have a concept of how things are done differently in other cultures, and that things can be done differently at all. Israeli students have the hardest time understanding the idea behind tu/vous (addressing your peers differently than you would address a grown up) or addressing an adult as Ms. X rather than by their first name. May learn the difference the hard way when moving away or travelling because it’s something that simply doesn’t exist in Israeli culture. And it’s ok. But what seems overly complicated to you is totally natural in another language/culture. 

 

So is the internet right that Noa means motion and Noah message rest? Almost opposites!