Erin & Chad 8: Hasbro Paine, Cleveland Paine, Labour Paine

[indianabones]

My personal theory for why Erin left the boutique is that she stopped pulling her weight after getting long covid and being too sick to leave the house most of the time. I think that Whitney and Carlin got tired of sharing the earnings with Erin without her participating as much, had a talk with her about it, and then Kelly got involved and bought Erin out. I don't think Erin handled it well and that she's still pretty upset with Carlin and Whitney (which is why she interacts less with them on social media than they do with her.) Katie sided with Carlin and Tori sided with Erin, and Josie/Michael/Alyssa aren't as involved.

I don't think modesty standards had anything to do with it, and I think that Erin and Chad's new bible cards and whatnot are their attempt to make up her lost earnings more than just a passion project.

[nelliebelle1197]

On 1/18/2022 at 4:51 PM, CanadianMamam said:

I am glad she had a safe delivery..I hope she soaks in the bay cuddles and that this is truly her last baby. 

Also, Erin really is gorgeous. 

She looks 30 years younger in that photo.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

On 12/19/2021 at 1:20 PM, raayx01 said:

in her new video, she said that the crib is on chad's side because he's going to be taking care of her in the middle of the night. So he works a full time job and has to get up in the middle of the night to take care of the baby. I do agree that it is a shared responsibility, but if you don't have a job and your entire cult is based around you taking care of the children, why can't she get up in the middle of the night to. 

Because moms need a break too, even in a cult. I am not in a cult but was pretty much useless after the 6pm feeding, so my (full-time, working) husband always took over the 9pm and the midnight feeding+ changing of our newborn. I would resume with the 3am feeding and onward. 

[Hazelbunny]

Finely weighed 5lb 4oz .... that is TINY!!! (Says this former 2lb 3oz preemie  - oh well...) How much did Cherins other kids weigh? Does anybody know? 

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, Hazelbunny said:

Finely weighed 5lb 4oz .... that is TINY!!! (Says this former 2lb 3oz preemie  - oh well...) How much did Cherins other kids weigh? Does anybody know? 

All the 3rd generation Bates’ babies are tiny. I think the largest of the group, Whitney’s kids, are barely 7 lbs. All of Erin’s, Tori’s and Carlin’s are in the 5 lb range, and I think Josie’s and Alyssa’s were all 6 pounders. Very different from some of the > than 9 pound Duggar offspring. Although to the Duggars’ credit, since every lady now receives PNC, the sizes have become more in the average range.

[Jrodseyeliner]

That huge fucking bow on her head… we get it, we know she she is a girl. Now take it off.. 

[justmy2cents]

3 hours ago, Jrodseyeliner said:

That huge fucking bow on her head… we get it, we know she she is a girl. Now take it off.. 

Are you referring to the hospital hat? They put the ones with bows on all the female babies. Mine got one and I didn't request it.

[Keys]

Our hospital has the loveliest group of older ladies who knit hats for all the new babes… it’s the sweetest thing! I was working in that area over Christmas, and they had little knitted elf hats that they were giving the babes. They also make pumpkin ones around Halloween with a little spiralled stem on top, and other seasonal ones. ☺️ 

[BensAllergies]

I’m guessing that she had a scheduled induction at 37-38 weeks due to her condition/history. My doctor was willing to do an elective induction as early as 39 weeks but would have gone earlier if there had been a medical reason to do so.

[Jackie3]

11 hours ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

Because moms need a break too, even in a cult. I am not in a cult but was pretty much useless after the 6pm feeding, so my (full-time, working) husband always took over the 9pm and the midnight feeding+ changing of our newborn. I would resume with the 3am feeding and onward. 

That's different than Erin's situation. She said that Chad does the nights. 3 am is the middle of the night. So they don't share the night, Chad handles it (and his full time job)

[neuroticcat]

12 hours ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

Because moms need a break too, even in a cult. I am not in a cult but was pretty much useless after the 6pm feeding, so my (full-time, working) husband always took over the 9pm and the midnight feeding+ changing of our newborn. I would resume with the 3am feeding and onward. 

Plus I think it’s less straightforward when there are a lot of other kids to take care of - basically no one is ever really “off” in that stage with many really young children. In our house, I took all the nighttime feedings because I was nursing and did better with interrupted sleep, but my husband always woke with the toddlers and took the baby at that time for several hours before he went to work (and I got one more chunk of sleep before I got up to be with all the kids for the rest of the day). It could be that Chad takes that feeding and sleeps in a bit or he may just do better on less sleep. I think by the fifth kid, couples have figured out what works or stopped having kids, honestly. The sleep deprivation is real, and some people can tolerate it bette than others. If I pushed my limits too long, my postpartum OCD would rev up. Having a five hour chunk of uninterrupted sleep is so important for mental well being, so I think it they’ve figured out how to do that, good on them.

I remembered pre-kids secretly judging our good friends who slept separately because of night waking. After I had kids, I totally got it. You do whatever it takes to get whatever sleep you can.

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by neuroticcat

[just_ordinary]

6 hours ago, SassyPants said:

All the 3rd generation Bates’ babies are tiny. I think the largest of the group, Whitney’s kids, are barely 7 lbs. All of Erin’s, Tori’s and Carlin’s are in the 5 lb range, and I think Josie’s and Alyssa’s were all 6 pounders. Very different from some of the > than 9 pound Duggar offspring. Although to the Duggars’ credit, since every lady now receives PNC, the sizes have become more in the average range.

I don’t know. But for a baby well before 40 weeks it seems like a completely healthy weight. Iirc the smaller ones all came a bit earlier. So it’s hard to say. It also seems they are all stay pretty active through the whole pregnancy, watch their diet (I hope non is actually eating under caloric, even though that’s more harmful to them than the baby) and have good medical care throughout their pregnancies. As long as their doctors aren’t concerned it’s fine. And with the extra testing/scans we can be pretty sure that no case of gestational diabetes (even a late one) falls through the rack as well. 
Heck I and my friends were slightly overdue and our babies weren’t heavier and there were no underlying conditions nor were the doctors concerned. The weight range for a healthy baby at birth is actually pretty wide. Females mostly being lighter and smaller than males. It just has to match their length. While most are between 6 and 8,5lb - 8 is definitely on the heavier side. Or at least that’s the norm range and assessment here. This obviously varies depending on countries (just like the recommended weight gain in pregnancies is highly different and it still seems to work for the majorities even though you would think human bodies are basically the same).

So it seems the Bates’ daughters just have babies on the lower weight side of the normal spectrum, because you cannot compare a 37 week baby to a 40 week one. But if you estimate a normal weight gain for them they would be in the norm but at the lower end. It seems the Duggar daughters carry in general a bit more on the heavier side. It will be interesting to see how this develops with more daughters in law. Because Whitney’s children are pretty much norm and slightly under. So they fit right in even though she is not blood related (obviously the baby is, so maybe there is a pretty dominant “smaller birth weight” gen running in the family). Were the Bates small babies as well?

[HereComesTreble]

1 hour ago, Jackie3 said:

That's different than Erin's situation. She said that Chad does the nights. 3 am is the middle of the night. So they don't share the night, Chad handles it (and his full time job)

Good for her. Good on him.  
 

My husband didn’t help at night.  We figured that because he worked and I stayed home—he should sleep all night. I was constantly exhausted and frazzled from taking care of little ones 24/7.  I don’t know how I got through those early years.

Edited January 21, 2022 by HereComesTreble

[adidas]

I don’t see any problem at all with the father doing nights. In fact, if he ‘helped’ occasionally I’d put it in the same basket as ‘he’s so great because he babysits the kids for me’.

He’s the father, he should be parenting. Not babysitting. Not helping. But actively parenting - and parenting happens around the clock IMO.

[Nothing if not critical]

21 minutes ago, adidas said:

I don’t see any problem at all with the father doing nights. In fact, if he ‘helped’ occasionally I’d put it in the same basket as ‘he’s so great because he babysits the kids for me’.

He’s the father, he should be parenting. Not babysitting. Not helping. But actively parenting - and parenting happens around the clock IMO.

I think that like with so many other things this shouldn’t be about gender roles, but should be decided according to practical considerations, like who does better with little sleep, and who has to be awake during the day.

If my husband was operating heavy machinery during the day, I’d want him to be well rested and awake, for his own safety and that of others. If the worst thing that could happen was him falling asleep at his desk, compared to me dropping the baby from exhaustion, it’s a different story. You’ve got to do what works for both of you.

And I’m so glad my kids are well past that stage! 😅

[Mrs Ms]

I’m a night owl, my partner isn’t. He naps, I can’t. I can have trouble falling asleep, he can fall asleep if you look at him wrong. So I am in charge until maybe 1am, he deals with early mornings and generally wakes for nightmares. When I was nursing, he often woke, either cooed at the baby if it was just fussing or carried the baby to me and then fell asleep again immediately. So he would wake up for 2 minutes more often, but I would be awake for 30+ minutes at a time.

Worked for us then and works for us now. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Mrs Ms

[JermajestyDuggar]

This could mean nothing but I think it’s interesting Erin and Chad had friends watch the kids while she was in the hospital. We know Kelly couldn’t watch them because she must be at the hospital. She never seems to miss Erin’s births. However I do think it’s interesting that not a single family member helped? I hate that the teen girls are always being sister aunts so I’m glad they weren’t in charge of babysitting the 4 Paines. But it’s just interesting to me that so many of the Bateses live in the same area of Tennessee and no one could watch them. I’m guessing Erin didn’t bother asking them. Because you would think Michael and Brandon could since they babysat them last time. I personally don’t think family members have any obligation to watch your kids when you’re in the hospitals, I guess I’m just surprised since the Bateses constantly act like they are all a super close living family. I just don’t think they are all as close and loving as they all pretend to be for the show.

[Angelface]

I think that things for the Bates family have changed rather a lot over the last few years. The older married kids are all increasing their individual family sizes (with the exception of Michaela) and this decreases their availability to jump in and mind four additional small children. Kelly would have been of more use had she looked after Erin’s children but Kelly does not care for minding small children and she wouldn’t have wanted to “miss out” on her photo opportunity of being photographed with the baby, minutes (or seconds, who knows with Kelly) after Finley’s birth. Erin’s sisters who live locally:

Michaela   No idea why Erin didn’t ask her, or if she did ask, why M couldn’t help

Tori.           Has 3 very small children and (speculation) is possibly in the early stages of pregnancy 

Carlin.       Pregnant, seems depressed, working at the boutique. Not as close as before possibly. 
Josie.        2 very small children and was probably working

Whitney.   4 children, Jadon still a baby, building new house, staying at Kelly’s so most likely looking after everyone there and doing lots of housework etc

It is no longer as easy as it once was to drop everything and help out.

I’ve often thought that Erin’s perfectionism prevents people from offering to help her. Erin, in my opinion, likes to be in control of her family and her home; I imagine that she likes everything done her way and to her standards which may be difficult for someone else to adhere to. A family friend with whom the children can stay for a few hours (so that the house is still perfect upon Erin’s return from hospital) probably suits Erin much better. I have a dear friend who has some of Erin’s traits and when I drove over to collect her 4 year old daughter whilst she went to hospital to have her second baby, I arrived to find her scrubbing the kitchen floor with her poor hubby pleading with her to let him take her to the hospital! She couldn’t comprehend not having everything perfect. I think that Erin is like this and has to fight against these tendencies to allow the kids to play in the house but is so much happier if the kids play outside.  This is just my opinion and maybe there has been some drama within the extended family with subsequent distancing taking place. Who knows? If they don’t tell us we’ll never know. 

[SassyPants]

All of these folks like being able to say that they love and have a boatload of kids, but that’s because once they are birthed, most (looking at you KJ, Gil, Michelle and JB) don’t give a rat’s patooty about the well being of or caring for children. KJ doesn’t want to be involved in much beyond the glory moments, of births, weddings etc. Getting down in the muck is none of these people’s style in anymore. As a grandma, I get it, but that’s why I don’t support prolific procreation. NO ONE wants to care for oodles of children as a lifelong hobby. It’s the prolife approach, care for them in the womb, and forget them the rest of the time.

[neuroticcat]

I saw that too and think it’s signaling more distancing from family. I’m probably projecting, but they’ve always asked family or in-laws before. Since she likely had a planned induction, this could have been set up in advance, even had cousin play dates at their house for a few hours or just stay at the big Bates house. 
 

I know when decided to go super low contact with extended family this was a big deal, and I could see it being a big deal for the Bates, because, whether they actually care about being able to watch the grandkids or not, it’s part of their public image. The timing of this and leaving the business being right around whatever cancelled the show makes me think there is a rift. 

[Melissa1977]

Some months ago, Erin and Chad attended a retreat for Christian couples that sounded deeply deeply fundie. She has been posting loooong IG stories about religion and motherhood, again 100% fundie. If she was looking for some kind of therapy she would choose a non-accredited, fundie counselor. She would never do the Jill&Dereck way. 

It is obvious that Erin is not in good terms with part of the family. I suspect it is more related to business accounts than to  values. But I'm worried about little Paines: no cousins, no neighbours, no classmates... It is not good.

[CanadianMamam]

It seems

On 1/21/2022 at 11:15 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

This could mean nothing but I think it’s interesting Erin and Chad had friends watch the kids while she was in the hospital. We know Kelly couldn’t watch them because she must be at the hospital. She never seems to miss Erin’s births. However I do think it’s interesting that not a single family member helped? I hate that the teen girls are always being sister aunts so I’m glad they weren’t in charge of babysitting the 4 Paines. But it’s just interesting to me that so many of the Bateses live in the same area of Tennessee and no one could watch them. I’m guessing Erin didn’t bother asking them. Because you would think Michael and Brandon could since they babysat them last time. I personally don’t think family members have any obligation to watch your kids when you’re in the hospitals, I guess I’m just surprised since the Bateses constantly act like they are all a super close living family. I just don’t think they are all as close and loving as they all pretend to be for the show.

It seems from the wording that the friends watched them for one evening, so we don't know who watched dthem the other nights (since Erin was in the hospital for around 4 days), Michael and Brandon could defintirly have taken a shift or two. 

I do think it is interesting she didn't send them to the big house and there does seem to be a rift with some siblings. The sisters she seems closest to three days are Josie and Tori and they each have small children of their own (plus Josie has a business) so friends without kids might seem like an easier option. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I feel like Erin used to take the kids to the big house a lot. Probably because her house is so small and they have room to run around at the big house. Plus they can play with the 3 youngest Bates kids. 

[CanadianMamam]

I think Erin pulled back a lot, not just with the boutique. I came into the family through social media and not the show and was catching up and I was stuck in the first episode by how Erin obciuosuly didn't want to be involved in Zach and Whitney's baby shower but ended up very involved and eveyone priased her for being brave and selfless.

I think Erin spent a lot of time putting her family first and long Covid made her reassess her priorities. I think she might also have enough self-awareness to know that she has a hard time not being involved (I am like this, if I am goibg to do something, I throw myself into it) and that she needed to completely step back for her sake and for her little family and I bet there is some tension with Kelly over that choice. It might also be the root of her problem with Katie, that Katie is hurt that Erin made the "I am not getting involved" decision right when it was her turn to be in the spotlight. 

I do think there were also tensions with the boutique and that Erin wanted to pull her money out and the other girls didn't love that and that Kelly ended up involved to smooth it over. I think Erin is just pulling back in general and wants to focus on her little family and knows she has to distance herself to be able to do that. 

She seems to be fine with the boys (excpet Zach), Josie, Tori and Michaela, which is why I think the root of the problem is the boutique and her pulling back from the Big House/Kelly. 

[Beermeet]

On 1/20/2022 at 11:17 PM, HereComesTreble said:

Good for her. Good on him.  
 

My husband didn’t help at night.  We figured that because he worked and I stayed home—he should sleep all night. I was constantly exhausted and frazzled from taking care of little ones 24/7.  I don’t know how I got through those early years.

Same. There was tears!  

Usually,  husband would get off work and take the kids while I napped or showered or went out for something fun.  At the time, he was a framer and up high in houses and using gnarly power tools so, I wanted him well rested!  I could nap with the kids at least.  

Now, they are 14 and 18 and I totally have that memory eraser thing where it all seemed not to bad and even downright enjoyable!  Funny how that can happen.