Remnant Fellowship 21: 53 Standing Ovations and I Move to Brentwood!

[freefromthin]

1 hour ago, SayonaraLara said:

So glad someone else remembers it! Sometimes I think back at some of the craziness and think I had to have made it up! But truth — and Gwen! — are/were stranger than fiction!

Another cringey story: The one about her dogs Chaucer and Virginia (told in The Last Exodus or Exodus Out of Egypt: The Change series or both!). When she neglected the dogs because she was too busy on book tour, they started going to the neighbors (a horse farm maybe where kids took riding lessons?) where they filled up on treats and attention. She got pissy that they were no longer obeying her. And she actually said: “Their hearts were in EGYPT!” Spoiler alert: She did not kill them with hairspray like the “arrogant,” spider, but she did somehow manage to get them “under authority,” like the rest of her drooling followers.

 

 

 

Yeah, I remember the spider and the dogs. She had a weird way with analogies, to be sure! I've often wondered how insecure someone had to be in order to interpret a spider or some dogs as "challenging" their "authority" in the ways that she described.

[quiversR4hunting]

8 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Nice way to keep a couple of families knowing their place, in a culture that revered the woman. “Well, I guess she didn’t remember ‘Cheyenne and Van’ because we haven’t really been as supportive and active in RF as we oughta be!”

Bet she remembered the names of the big machers’ and donors’ chirruns.  

"Reba" reference is awesome! 

[SayonaraLara]

Guessing Erin/Elle hasn’t watched the documentary.

 

[Jb003]

Does anyone know when and why Tedd Anger stepped down as Gwen's right hand man?

[cookingbutterchicken]

27 minutes ago, Jb003 said:

Does anyone know when and why Tedd Anger stepped down as Gwen's right hand man?

This year before she died. I want to say April?

[SayonaraLara]

2 hours ago, Jb003 said:

Does anyone know when and why Tedd Anger stepped down as Gwen's right hand man?

Don’t know. Did he step down or was he removed from that position? I’ve not seen a truly concrete explanation.

It was after Joe was in the picture. Maybe Gwen didn’t need him in that role, as she was grooming her groom for it. Maybe, and I suspect this might be more accurate, she couldn’t afford him in that role anymore after her costly divorce. Maybe there was some kind of more juicy falling out — after all, the Angers and Days all were dropped from leadership at the same time (the Bakers were too, but they’re back in).

But … they’re still church members, so it couldn’t have been that bad?

 

[Baxsmom]

I watched the Remnant Fellowship show tonight. It was quite lively. First, the speaker guy was miffed about the false accusations against the church (he hates it!) and the liars/slanderers will have their day of reckoning. And he would not touch people rebelling against God with a ten foot pole (I guess since I post here, he was speaking to me). "Get on the train!" he said. Next some cute kids recited something and then there was some groovy Michael Shamblin music followed by another old clip of GWEN. This sermon was a doozy, including a clip from the movie The Matrix. Gwen preached about taking the red pill or the blue pill and then she read some bible verses and then they showed another movie clip with a blue alien looking guy flying on dragons. This old sermon was so amazing that it got a standing ovation. Oh, and the clothing color scheme was loosely in play tonight. They need to tighten that up!!

So Remnant wants to present a non-cult like church to the world? This isn't the way. I thought it was just plain weird.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Baxsmom

[Jb003]

Why are Elizabeth and Michael so absent from the church? I thought Elizabeth would step right in and take over. This is what she has been 'groomed' for. Instead they are playing old sermons of Gwen's?

[nelliebelle1197]

22 hours ago, SayonaraLara said:

Guessing Erin/Elle hasn’t watched the documentary.

 

Erin can really be gorgeous!

[SayonaraLara]

1 hour ago, Jb003 said:

Why are Elizabeth and Michael so absent from the church? I thought Elizabeth would step right in and take over. This is what she has been 'groomed' for. Instead they are playing old sermons of Gwen's?

Great question. A couple weeks after the crash, Elizabeth spoke at the Saturday sabbath and seemed poised to take on her mom’s legacy, as she had promised her — even though being on stage was admittedly not something she wanted to do.  She spoke strongly (desperately?) about the bloodlines/annointings, assuring members that she and her brother were worthy and prepared to carry the torch. (Or at least that they would justify their spots on the payroll.)

Since then, she has only made maybe one or two brief on-camera appearances. She’s literally phoned-in a few messages, and thanked leadership for allowing her to communicate that way with so much going on. Michael has performed a few songs on stage. But both are absent more then they are present (though possibly they are more involved behind the scenes?) Their children are often there in the front row or on stage, but Elizabeth and Michael are nowhere in sight.

Occasionally, a Remnant member will post a photo of a flower bouquet supposedly sent by some combination of Elizabeth and Michael’s families /church leaders. And that member will say how selfless and sweet it is of them to think of them when they’ve been through so much.

And they have been through a lot. Losing a parent is major for anyone, and probably much more so when that parent controlled their kids’ every move and decision. They’re lost. Also, Elizabeth lost her husband and father to her four children — not to mention much of her income/stability (Brandon made a lot of money in real estate; and how many people will be flocking to Brentwood to join the Remnant now?). True, she’s an heir to her mother’s fortune, but that might not be as much as people think. Gwen paid a ton of money to David in the divorce. She hasn’t been producing new books/classes. She had to keep Joe happy with jets, Teslas and high-dollar toys. She had expensive properties to pay for/upkeep. l suspect Gwen was financed up to her hair.

For Elizabeth and Michael be thrust unwillingly into prominent positions they never wanted during the height of their grief does make me feel for them on a personal level — what pressure that must be. And then an HBO documentary comes out, exposing their mother, their church, alleged affairs, and the now puppet master is gone. She’s not  there to pick up the pieces, play martyr, control the narrative and rally the faithful.

Fortunately for them, there are the Joe Langstons and the Amy Stites and the Eldon Gormsens of the church who will keep everything going — and who aren’t going anywhere. Michael and Elizabeth  can surely coast and ride this out for a long while. After all, Remnant members are programmed not to question things, and Michael always disappeared regularly anyway!

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by SayonaraLara

[Blue]

37 minutes ago, SayonaraLara said:

Great question. A couple weeks after the crash, Elizabeth spoke at the Saturday sabbath and seemed poised to take on her mom’s legacy, as she had promised her — even though being on stage was admittedly not something she wanted to do.  She spoke strongly (desperately?) about the bloodlines/annointings, assuring members that she and her brother would carry the torch. (Or at least that they would justify their spots on the payroll.)

Since then, she has only made maybe one or two brief on-camera appearances. She’s done a couple phone-in messages, and thanked leadership for allowing her to communicate that way with so much going on. Michael has performed a few songs on stage. But both are absent more then they are present (though possibly they are more involved behind the scenes?) Their children are often there in the front row or on stage, but Elizabeth and Michael are nowhere in sight. Fortunately for them, Remnant members are programmed not to question things, and Michael always disappeared regularly anyway!

Occasionally, a Remnant member will post a flower bouquet that was supposedly sent by some combination of Elizabeth and Michael’s families /church leaders. And that member will say how selfless and sweet it is of them to think of them when they’ve been through so much.

And they have been through a lot. Losing a parent is major for anyone, and probably much more so when one loses such a parent who controlled their every move and decision. They’re lost. Also,  Elizabeth lost her husband and father to her four children — not to mention much of her regular income/stability (Brandon made a lot of money in real estate). True, she’s an heir to her mother’s fortune, but that might not be as much as people think. Gwen paid a ton of money to David in the divorce. She hasn’t been producing new books/classes. She had to keep Joe happy with Teslas and high-dollar toys. They had expensive properties to pay for/upkeep. l suspect Gwen was financed up to her hair.

For Elizabeth and Michael be thrust unwillingly into prominent positions they never wanted during the height of their grief does make me feel for them on a personal level — what pressure that must be.

 

That's actually what my husband and I have been talking about for a long time - well before the crash. Yes, at one point she was making BIG money, but that's when the market for her books was the thousands of churches hosting her class. Now her market is much smaller, and when you're not putting out new studies, you only make so much on the video subscriptions when people already own all of your books. I know she put out in the last 10 years or so her 2 volumes on the history of the love of God or whatever, but again... RF is the primary market for those and RF just isn't THAT big 🤷‍♀️

Edited October 17, 2021 by Blue

[SayonaraLara]

2 hours ago, Blue said:

2 hours ago, SayonaraLara said:

That's actually what my husband and I have been talking about for a long time - well before the crash. Yes, at one point she was making BIG money, but that's when the market for her books was the thousands of churches hosting her class. Now her market is much smaller, and when you're not putting out new studies, you only make so much on the video subscriptions when people already own all of your books. I know she put out in the last 10 years or so her 2 volumes on the history of the love of God or whatever, but again... RF is the primary market for those and RF just isn't THAT big 🤷‍♀️

Exactly. There was not a new class after the 2017 Revolution series. In the last 5 or so years she put out three books (two  “History” volumes: The Love book and God-Fearing Families book; and then Weigh Down Works, which was an updated Tablet, which was an updated Weigh Down Diet book).

Lets say 5,000 people bought those three books (they didn’t; maybe half that number did) at $30 profit per book (they didn’t; they might have made $15). That would be $450,000. That’s really not a lot of money in Gwen’s economy. 

Sure, she had investments. She still had Exodus Industries (was always curious if that made much money — it did seem to have a huge church-based workforce?). She had the fieldhouse building where several Remnant-based businesses (from World Financial Group to Franklin Insurance) were leasing space. Other investment properties went to David, except the Destin beach mansion, which she did start renting out for income.

I don’t think by any means she was destitute, but I wonder how her recent/post-divorce earnings could keep up with her lavish lifestyle. Then again, did Gwen ever have to pay for much of anything? Any beauty, household, lawn care, childcare, cleaning, cooking needs, car maintenance needs she had were surely taken care of free of charge by her flock.

 

 

 

[Jb003]

It just seems odd....for them...because being able to grieve loss has seemed to be taboo for RF members. Even after the loss of Elizabeths's son. Did anyone watch the Dan Gryder Probable Cause video where he talks to David Shamblin's brother and goes to the burial site where all the graves are marked out together? I wondered if it was out in Primm Springs or even Ashlawn? Does anyone know?

[SayonaraLara]

26 minutes ago, Jb003 said:

It just seems odd....for them...because being able to grieve loss has seemed to be taboo for RF members. Even after the loss of Elizabeths's son. Did anyone watch the Dan Gryder Probable Cause video where he talks to David Shamblin's brother and goes to the burial site where all the graves are marked out together? I wondered if it was out in Primm Springs or even Ashlawn? Does anyone know?

But those were mere mortals.

This was “Gwen Almighty.”

[ChadelBaj]

16 hours ago, Jb003 said:

Does anyone know when and why Tedd Anger stepped down as Gwen's right hand man?

I have a little nugget about this, but take it with a grain of salt bc who knows if anything RF members say is actually true because of the amount of gaslighting that goes on, but in the context of the conversation it seemed truthful, and was also mentioned in passing- not a direct answer to a direct question or anything. '

The context was the RF person defending themselves when questioned about RF authority structure and doing what said authority tells you to do. They mentioned that people in leadership had given "bad counsel" in the past but were now no longer leaders. Implying that they hold their leaders accountable for their actions.  No names were mentioned. 

[CRAnn]

4 hours ago, ChadelBaj said:

I have a little nugget about this, but take it with a grain of salt bc who knows if anything RF members say is actually true because of the amount of gaslighting that goes on, but in the context of the conversation it seemed truthful, and was also mentioned in passing- not a direct answer to a direct question or anything. '

The context was the RF person defending themselves when questioned about RF authority structure and doing what said authority tells you to do. They mentioned that people in leadership had given "bad counsel" in the past but were now no longer leaders. Implying that they hold their leaders accountable for their actions.  No names were mentioned. 

Another little nugget I noticed is that in some of Gwen and Joe’s wedding reception photos Ted looks like he had put on weight!  About that same time his daughter gained weight and was later on a YCO speaking about it.  

The Days were on a YCO sometime after the wedding and you’d never think there was any issues with them.  All hugs and kisses and besties… sisters was the description they used.  But both Angers have simply been OFF stage no exceptions since around the time Gwen remarried.  Wondering if Gwen and/or her leadership knew his behavior would be a focus of the documentary and decided to disappear him and Candace…. but they wouldn’t have know of the documentary in 2018, would they?  Anyway, it’s super strange because both Ted and Candace were on either side of Gwen for so long then disappeared… yet still members.  I always thought Gwen treated them terrible on stage anyway.  She wouldn’t let them speak, especially Candace and when Candace did finally get to say something she’d seem very nervous and outrageously subservient.  Creepy.  She was just a prop for Gwen.  

[ManyGoats]

This is off-topic and probably weird of me but I was clicking around, looking at various RF members' Instagram and YouTube accounts. (These people just fascinate me!) And on one leader's YouTube account there was posted a playlist titled "Gwen." When I clicked on it there was just one video and it was a podcast critiquing Gwen's theology. Maybe the person meant to come back and respond or something but I thought it was odd that an RF leader would save a post that was critical of Gwen.

Edited October 18, 2021 by ManyGoats
Mistakes were made.

[Animosus]

9 hours ago, ManyGoats said:

This is off-topic and probably weird of me but I was clicking around, looking at various RF members' Instagram and YouTube accounts. (These people just fascinate me!) And on one leader's YouTube account there was posted a playlist titled "Gwen." When I clicked on it there was just one video and it was a podcast critiquing Gwen's theology. Maybe the person meant to come back and respond or something but I thought it was odd that an RF leader would save a post that was critical of Gwen.

Could you share the video please?

 

[ManyGoats]

2 hours ago, Animosus said:

Could you share the video please?

 

Here you go! There is also a part 1 but this was the one in the person's playlist.

 

[Freedbygrace]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:36 PM, SayonaraLara said:

So glad someone else remembers it! Sometimes I think back at some of the craziness and think I had to have made it up! But truth — and Gwen! — are/were stranger than fiction!

 

 

 

I have thought the same thing so many times in the past few months. I had suppressed so much of my RF experience until the plane crash and so many of Gwen’s teachings were out in the media. One that shocked me was her Holocaust reference - I couldn’t believe I had ignored that for all those years. But pushing those things down in our memory is how many of us have dealt with the trauma and the tendency to condemn self for falling for what you called the “craziness.”

[freefromthin]

49 minutes ago, Freedbygrace said:

I have thought the same thing so many times in the past few months. I had suppressed so much of my RF experience until the plane crash and so many of Gwen’s teachings were out in the media. One that shocked me was her Holocaust reference - I couldn’t believe I had ignored that for all those years. But pushing those things down in our memory is how many of us have dealt with the trauma and the tendency to condemn self for falling for what you called the “craziness.”

THIS. ALLLLL of THIS. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by freefromthin
added more words

[mango_fandango]

On 10/16/2021 at 4:52 PM, SayonaraLara said:

Guessing Erin/Elle hasn’t watched the documentary.

 

The girl on the right in the brown dress really looks like Michael! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

The girl on the right in the brown dress really looks like Michael! 

It’s interesting how looks go in that family. Michael looks like his dad and nothing like his mom. While Elizabeth looks nothing like her dad and do much like Gwen. Then Michael has twin daughters who look so much like him. It doesn’t seem like the genes like to mix in these people. They just look like one parent or the other. 

[zee_four]

On 10/8/2021 at 1:18 AM, formergothardite said:

I'm going to assume their PR person is also a cult member. It jumps out how they push the number of mandated reporters attend like that means there couldn't be any abuse. Spoiler RF members reading here, most of the abusive organizations we discuss here have mandatory reporters who turn a blind eye to what is going on. 

Is that the reason they have the section about "Professionals" who attend on their website? I thought it was just another social climbing type grab but then saw they included public teachers and social workers (I weep for my past and current professions) which aren't exact big money upper to upper-middle class income and status. 

[Freedbygrace]

On 10/17/2021 at 5:30 PM, ChadelBaj said:

The context was the RF person defending themselves when questioned about RF authority structure and doing what said authority tells you to do. They mentioned that people in leadership had given "bad counsel" in the past but were now no longer leaders. Implying that they hold their leaders accountable for their actions.  No names were mentioned. 

This seems somewhat unlikely to me because Tedd spent many, many years giving “bad counsel” with no backlash. He was not qualified to counsel with his only training coming from Gwen. I believe you could talk to any ex-RF member and they could tell you their own horror story of counsel from Tedd and the bad results of what he advised. 
 

I have no insights as to why he is out of leadership but theories listed here of some questionable financial dealings or Gwen not being able to afford him seem more likely. I would say it was not because he disagreed with Gwen about Joe because the time when two of the top leaders disagreed with Gwen during the time we were there, they left RF and took some family and friends with them. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Freedbygrace