Plathville 2: The Whole Family Needs Therapy

[JDuggs]

I have no idea why Olivia would put that address on Facebook since it doesn’t seem real. So bizarre. She doesn’t give any indication of an address on her website or Instagram. Olivia and Ethan have been in Europe since June and took their trip to Jamaica with Moriah and Micah in May. It just seems odd that they would up and move in less than a year. Moriah still seems to be in Tampa because she posts pics and videos from the dance studio there. And I wonder where Olivia’s brother Nathan would end up. If they did only sign a short term lease in Tampa, I guess they were all aware of it. I think they’re still in the Tampa rental, but will probably move after a 12 month lease, which I’m not sure when that’s up, fall, maybe.

 

 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Episode 6, “Dirty Little Sinners”

Ethan arrives home in Tampa and Olivia does not get up from her laptop or say anything. He asks why she isn’t talking, and she says maybe he could talk. They rehash the car issue. She feels like he’s not loving and prioritizing her, and she was upset that he hid the car from her. In a TH, she says he wants to go home, going back on the plan they made after the separation. She tells him she wants to move forward in her own life, and not keep him from doing what he wants. He asks her why they seem so incompatible. [And we’re just going to let that drop, at least for the rest of the episode.]

In Cairo, Lydia is doing 13-year-old Amber’s makeup. Amber tells her about her conversation with Kim. Lydia wouldn’t be assertive enough to ask Kim those questions. In TH, Lydia is glad that Amber says what’s on her mind. 

Back to Tampa. Moriah finds out that Max released a video telling his side of the story. [He deleted it quickly, btw.] She’s never been so angry. She had done everything she could to protect him, and he threw her under the bus. Ethan and Olivia comfort Moriah. [It’s the closest to reality they ever show. Everyone clearly just got up. Ethan’s wearing a robe, and the women have no makeup on, and may have slept in their clothes.] Max’s video said that they were “in a funk,” which Moriah says is not true. She’s angry that he brought her family into it by saying that he had issues with Ethan and Olivia and was being pressured to move in. He says that his cheating was “an incident” that happened after a long work week. Olivia and Ethan are furious too. Plus Max is still friends with the Plaths in Cairo!

Max gets an interview. He says that he cheated and they couldn’t work it out after that. The producer asks if he told Moriah the whole story, and he says that he thought it was unnecessary to go into details about what he did with the other woman. Then in a later conversation, it did come up, and Moriah thought that he had been hiding it, but that wasn’t how he meant it. The producer asks if he still loves her, and he gives a meandering answer about being glad they had their journey. 

Off to LA. Micah’s looking forward to celebrating his 21st in Florida and then visiting his family. He tells Hayden about the separation. Micah wonders if Kim had changed before she got married. He thinks she sees her adult kids enjoying their lives and wants to have more fun too.

Kim is coming to Tampa to see Moriah. They are respecting boundaries by meeting up at the beach. (It’s the Hotel Zamora in St. Petersburg, near the Don Cesar.) Ethan drives her over. In a TH, Moriah says that she has not told Ethan about the separation, at her parents’ request. Sorry, BEC - Kim’s trips to the gym haven’t made much difference. They’ve had hard conversations and gotten really close. Moriah is not okay with the Plaths being friends with him, now that the truth has come out. Kim’s really unhappy in her marriage, and has decided she wants out, but she feels bad about letting the children down. Moriah wants what’s best for everyone. Kim tells Moriah the time-to-think story. Kim says in a TH that only Moriah makes her feel understood. They hug and it’s really sweet.

Olivia’s going out with her friend Bree and Bree’s female friends. They’re heavy drinkers and she only drinks a little. The bar is The Saint, a sin-themed bar in downtown St. Pete. The episode title comes from a hostess in a nun outfit calling the group “dirty little sinners.” It’s not far from St. Pete beach, so it seems likely that it was filmed immediately after the previous scene. Olivia has a voiceover/TH about how she was taught that alcohol was sinful, she’s never been to a bar with girlfriends, blah blah. In one of her THs during the bar scenes, she admits that as a teenager she used her mom’s phone to watch porn.

Meanwhile, Ethan is also looking for a good time. He’s at Reboot Arcade & Bar in Dunedin, which is his favorite bar. Olivia has not been to the bar with him. Dunedin is north of Clearwater, so they’re probably living in the northwestern part of Tampa. He likes the bar for the pinball machines. He immediately starts talking to older women at the bar. He lets a woman give him her number. Danger! Suspense! 

Next time: Micah turns 21 at the Tampa house; Moriah confronts Lydia about spending time with Max; Kim tells the girls about the divorce before she meant to.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Episode 7, “Eyes Down”

Ethan and Olivia are discussing their nightlife adventures. It’s implied that they did not sleep together. They’re wearing the outfits from the conversation about Max’s video, so the scenes may have been filmed at the same time, or maybe that’s what they always wear to bed. Ethan tells Olivia that he took a woman’s number to be polite. Olivia points out that he’s signaled to her that he’s interested. He did not realize that. Cairo doesn’t have a bar, and everyone knows each other anyway. Olivia tells him “next time, leave it on the bar, like I do.” Hmm. So she’s been meeting guys in bars? Anyway, she doesn’t get upset with him, which she seems to consider personal growth. 

Kim, Mercy, and Cassia are setting up a new bedroom for the girls, because Barry’s moving into a bedroom that at least one of them previously occupied. Kim is moving back in (and taking the master bedroom) because she realized that the little girls need her. One of them asks her when this started, and she says about seven months ago. Kim reassures them that it’s not going to be a messy divorce, forgetting that she hadn’t told them about the divorce. They hug. In voiceover, Kim wants to encourage the kids to nurture their marriages, not just tell them to stay married forever. 

Lydia and Moriah meet up for coffee in Gainesville. Lydia’s blond now. She complains about Max’s video. In voiceover, she’s working on telling people how they make her feel. Moriah is bothered by Lydia’s actions regarding Max. In a TH, Lydia didn’t mean to hurt Moriah. Lydia tells Moriah that scripture says to forgive, so she met Max to tell him she forgave him. Lydia recognizes that she should have talked to Moriah first. Relationships are scary and hard. 

In Tampa, it’s party time! Olivia bakes a cake. Ethan and Olivia split a margarita on his 21st. They agree that they are lame (in the same end-of-season TH outfits). 

Lydia hangs out with church friends in someone’s backyard in Tallahassee. Her parents didn’t really spend time with friends. Lydia had been thinking about moving out, but with the separation, she’s needed at home for now. At some point she might want to be roommates with church friends. [Hey, remember when Moriah wanted to go to FSU? What happened to that?] Lydia is struggling, but the Holy Spirit comforts her. Barry has good days and bad days. Kim needs grace. Lydia would like to talk to Kim more. Some days Lydia feels like she’s carrying too much. Time for s’mores!

Back to the Tampa party. Olivia is pushing shots on everyone every time someone arrives. She comes to regret this. Moriah assures us that she did not drink, because she’s not 21 yet, almost managing to keep a straight face. Moriah is proud of Micah for moving out of his comfort zone. Micah sprays champagne.

The boys are off to a strip club, with Olivia and a friend following after they change clothes. Ethan is totally weirded out by the idea of looking at a real live naked lady. They stop to get cash for tips and - this is extremely weird, even by Plath standards - Ethan, a 23-year-old married man, has NEVER used an ATM! Apparently he doesn’t spend cash. They’re really drunk in the car (with a driver) on the way to the club. Their choice from Tampa’s world-class selection of strip clubs is 2001 Odyssey. 

Micah smacks Ethan a little to sober him up. Ethan’s still nervous. Micah tells Ethan that he’s looking at God’s creations. Micah does a drunken TH in the parking lot (“stripping girls”!). The women catch up with them, so Ethan is lamely trailed into the club by his wife. Ethan experiences sensory overload. In a TH, Ethan tells us that Kim would say “eyes down” when they saw scantily clad women. Olivia is fascinated by the dancing. There’s a shot of her giving Ethan a lap dance, but no commentary about it. Micah is very into the strippers. Ethan looks very not into it, then leaves. Micah does a parking lot TH about how Ethan only likes cars and goes back into the club, leaving the producers yelling at him to come back and hand over his mic.

In Cairo, Barry and Kim are separated and living together, which just sucks for everyone. They talk privately. Barry wants his wife who loved him back. He feels a little betrayed. He’s still confused about why she’s throwing away 24 years of marriage. She says “I feel like I’ve been hurt too much” and he goes on talking about his feelings, which provides a little insight into the situation. He asks her why she’s being so selfish. She asks him if he wants her to be in an unhappy marriage. [Cut to Kim’s TH, so they never show an answer to either question.] She tried to talk and he didn’t listen. He’s still not listening. He wants another chance. She says he’s had enough chances. He admits he took her for granted. In voiceover, she says she had wanted to ask him for a divorce, but she thinks he’s not ready to accept it yet. They hug. Barry TH - he still has hope. No previews of next time.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Moriah, Lydia, and Micah all posted a written statement from “the Plath family” saying that what Olivia said about Kim using Ethan’s credit card was not the whole truth. Looks like Kim is possibly getting her kids back in her good graces except for Ethan of course. Now that Kim is divorcing their dad and letting the rules go, they probably want to run back to her and pretend everything is ok. Which is totally expected and natural. Most kids want to have a good relationship with their parents. They will likely pick Kim over Ethan and Olivia most of the time. 

Edited August 5, 2022 by JermajestyDuggar

[waltraute]

I saw a snippet where Ethan confronts his mother about his lack of education. He told her she didn't try, or didn't put effort into schooling. She said, well remember, you didn't like being in front of a monitor so we let you pursue your passion with cars. He told her, I was just a kid, you should have made me, and you didn't try.

Sounds like Kim used a computer the way Jill Rod uses workbooks. What Ethan didn't have the words for, probably doesn't even realize, is that is NOT teaching. He's 100% correct, she didn't try if that's all she did.

How in God's name can these people bash public schools so vehemently? 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Episode 8, “I Feel Like A Cow”

Moriah has gotten into ballroom dancing.

In Cairo, Lydia is helping a younger sister with school. Kim’s living at home, but still not helping much. Lydia feels that she’s prepared because she chose to do everything after her older siblings moved out, even though Kim offered to help.

Also In Cairo, Ethan and Micah are in town and are riding motorcycles. No mention of how Olivia might feel about this. Ethan still doesn’t know about the separation, and Micah seems to have lured Ethan to Cairo by promising to help with the cars. Barry texts and calls Ethan. They haven’t talked in a couple of years. Micah suggests that Kim not be there when they come over. Ethan and Barry agree.   Ethan says Kim “gets into drama and nonsense, kinda like Olivia will.” 

Olivia relates how fascinated she was by the strippers dancing at Micah’s party. She and Moriah are going to a pole dancing class. The teacher says that it’s painful, but working through the pain is part of the achievement. Olivia says she’s trying to get over what she was taught about women’s bodies being sinful. Moriah says she got out of a “sort of controlling” relationship. Moriah loves dancing and it sounds like Kim did take her to dance lessons. Olivia feels “like a cow” because she’s not flexible. Moriah loves the class.

The guys arrive at the Plath house. The girls are sooo happy to see them. Everyone hugs. They tell them that they rode the motorcycles from Tampa. Ethan has never been inside the house. Only Issac has his own room . Lydia shares with Amber. Ethan is really fascinated by visiting his family in a new house. He sits down to play the old piano and there’s a clip of him playing it on his wedding day. Lydia wishes Kim was there.

They sit down for the talk. Ethan tells him that they live in south Tampa, above MacDill Air Force Base. I call bullshit on a bar in Dunedin being his favorite. He tells Barry that Moriah has “caught up on her bills.” Barry dismisses the little girls and breaks the news. Ethan says “I’ve been there” and Barry says that it looks like they’re going to divorce. He spells it out, poor guy. Barry says he’s been grieving and Ethan says that the first three months of his separation were hard. In a TH, Ethan says he’s upset, but he appreciates being told in person. Barry says that last year Kim seemed to change and said she had never had a voice in the marriage and he took her for granted. In a TH, Lydia is realizing that they really are getting divorced. Ethan tells the producers that he needs to process. 

Now it’s Kim’s turn. The dance studio looks more like a real business. She’s giving Ethan and Barry space, but she’s sad. And now she’s meeting a guy for coffee! His name is Charles, and he sold (it’s not clear if he was the seller or the realtor) or rented the Plaths’ house, the dance studio, and the homes where Ethan/Olivia and Moriah/Micah used to live. He has a very country accent. She’s gotten acrylic nails. Charles wants to help. The vibe is pretty platonic and it’s not clear if he’s single. 

Ethan talks with Micah and Issac. Ethan says Barry has done everything for Kim and he never wants to see her again. He says “I goddamn for sure won’t. I’ve been done with that lady for a long time.” Issac and Micah won’t put up with such disrespect and shut him down. Micah says he’s getting pissed off, and he doesn’t have much of a temper, so Ethan pays attention. Micah still loves Kim. Ethan doesn’t. Micah points out that he’s only heard Barry’s side of the story. Micah and Issac tell him that Kim has changed a lot. Ethan is confused, but he accepts that they haven’t talked in a while. Micah doesn’t want Ethan being critical about Kim with Olivia. Ethan says he doesn’t want to talk about it and he’ll just say that they’re getting divorced. Micah says she will ask. Ethan doesn’t care. He’s holding grudges (against Olivia, too) and he’s sick of the drama. The little girls barge in and they take a picture. 

Next time: Kim has talks with both Micah and Lydia. Ethan arrives home and announces that he bought another motorcycle. Olivia asks why he didn’t call her and he flounces into the house. He says in a TH that he doesn’t want to talk to her.

[JDuggs]

Maybe someday we will get some of the real Plath story not filtered through a reality TV show. The statement from the kids says the show didn’t give the full story about Kim using Ethan’s credit card, but they still don’t explain the whole situation.

I find it disappointing that Micah and Moriah don’t seem to realize how different their journeys out of fundiedom would have been different without Olivia (and Ethan) there to support and guide them. And Olivia got all the blame for corrupting Kim’s kids, while Kim didn’t seem all that bothered by Micah and Moriah’s lack of clothing, Moriah’s tattoos and her more conventional dating relationship with Max. Micah and Moriah don’t seem to understand that Olivia took the blame for everything while Kim seemed to support them.

Kim is the parent here. She’s the one who needs to apologize to Olivia for helping Micah and Moriah to lead their own authentic lives. Especially now that Kim doesn’t really seem to be living the lifestyle she was preaching all those years. Are they really all so stubborn that Kim, Olivia and Ethan (Barry is kind of a non-player at this point) can’t sit down with a family therapist and try to hash this out?

[waltraute]

18 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Now that Kim is divorcing their dad and letting the rules go, they probably want to run back to her and pretend everything is ok.

I'm skeptical that Kim is actually doing the heavy emotional work needed for real change. Dropping the rules is a smokescreen flex. She is dropping them because she doesn't want to adhere to them anymore.

I wonder if she ever comes straight out to say that she was wrong. I think it would help Ethan greatly if she told him this. I know I've had to say these words to a couple of my kids because it was a hard truth I needed to face and admit. In that snippet, Kim told Ethan, I'm sorry that you were hurt, but that isn't the same thing as saying, what I did was wrong, and I acknowledge that it affected you negatively and I am deeply sorry.

I found it was best not to explain the extenuating circumstances or say that I was trying my hardest with what I believed at the time, etc... Just a simple, I was wrong. I am sorry. My adult children jumped in with excuses for me, like, you were so young, and we were living in tough times, and that's what everyone believed anyway etc... The justification was better coming from their mouths than it would have been coming from mine if I had couched my apologies in those excuses.

I want to clarify that I don't think a parent has to apologize for everything. There really are times where we might have taken a misstep out of ignorance or misinformation, but we were parenting with our whole heart and with all the best intentions. For those times you can say, I'm sorry you were hurt by that action.

But c'mon, we're all human, and many of us as parents have done a thing out of self-interest or laziness or stubbornness that we regret. A sincere apology and an acknowledgement of damage can go a long way in strengthening relationships with adult children.

Everyone on this show needs therapy.

ETA: As usual, someone got there before me. Spot on @JDuggs!

Edited August 6, 2022 by waltraute

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, waltraute said:

I'm skeptical that Kim is actually doing the heavy emotional work needed for real change. Dropping the rules is a smokescreen flex. She is dropping them because she doesn't want to adhere to them anymore.

I wonder if she ever comes straight out to say that she was wrong. I think it would help Ethan greatly if she told him this. I know I've had to say these words to a couple of my kids because it was a hard truth I needed to face and admit. In that snippet, Kim told Ethan, I'm sorry that you were hurt, but that isn't the same thing as saying, what I did was wrong, and I acknowledge that it affected you negatively and I am deeply sorry.

I found it was best not to explain the extenuating circumstances or say that I was trying my hardest with what I believed at the time, etc... Just a simple, I was wrong. I am sorry. My adult children jumped in with excuses for me, like, you were so young, and we were living in tough times, and that's what everyone believed anyway etc... The justification was better coming from their mouths than it would have been coming from mine if I had couched my apologies in those excuses.

I want to clarify that I don't think a parent has to apologize for everything. There really are times where we might have taken a misstep out of ignorance or misinformation, but we were parenting with our whole heart and with all the best intentions. For those times you can say, I'm sorry you were hurt by that action.

But c'mon, we're all human, and many of us as parents have done a thing out of self-interest or laziness or stubbornness that we regret. A sincere apology and an acknowledgement of damage can go a long way in strengthening relationships with adult children.

Everyone on this show needs therapy.

I agree. I’m guessing those kids want this so bad that at first they won’t care to hear that from Kim. Over time they might want to hear it. But right now they are probably just happy to have their mom in their lives and not constantly fighting. 

[Dominionatrix]

1 hour ago, JDuggs said:

I find it disappointing that Micah and Moriah don’t seem to realize how different their journeys out of fundiedom would have been different without Olivia (and Ethan) there to support and guide them. 

Absolutely, but I think it goes even further in that Kim and Barry probably only accepted the changes Micah and Moriah made because Ethan and Olivia had made a stand, and Kim and Barry realized they were on the brink of losing relationships with more kids and also of being massively embarrassed on TV. I also think there was an element of gaslighting Olivia by showing off how accepting and supportive they could be of Moriah and Micah. That made it easier for Olivia to look like the unreasonable one, but really Kim and Barry just changed tactics. 

[waltraute]

13 minutes ago, Dominionatrix said:

Absolutely, but I think it goes even further in that Kim and Barry probably only accepted the changes Micah and Moriah made because Ethan and Olivia had made a stand, and Kim and Barry realized they were on the brink of losing relationships with more kids and also of being massively embarrassed on TV. I also think there was an element of gaslighting Olivia by showing off how accepting and supportive they could be of Moriah and Micah. That made it easier for Olivia to look like the unreasonable one, but really Kim and Barry just changed tactics. 

I agree that Olivia and Ethan paved the way and that now the rest of the family is giving a master class on gaslighting.

That doesn't mean that Ethan and Olivia are behaving perfectly either, but the whole 'why can't you just get over it' mantra the rest of them seem to be chanting is frustrating, self-serving, and damaging.

[JermajestyDuggar]

56 minutes ago, waltraute said:

I agree that Olivia and Ethan paved the way and that now the rest of the family is giving a master class on gaslighting.

That doesn't mean that Ethan and Olivia are behaving perfectly either, but the whole 'why can't you just get over it' mantra the rest of them seem to be chanting is frustrating, self-serving, and damaging.

Reminds me of Elisheba (the eldest of papa pilgrim’s children). She wrote a book about her life growing up and her brothers are mad. They want her to just stop talking about it and move on. 

[LacyMay]

11 hours ago, JDuggs said:

I find it disappointing that Micah and Moriah don’t seem to realize how different their journeys out of fundiedom would have been different without Olivia (and Ethan) there to support and guide them.

All the applause for this. 

Olivia isn't by any means perfect, but Moriah seems to be pretty content to toss Olivia aside now that she no longer needs that support/validation/bond. I always felt like Olivia really went above and beyond to make sure that her and Ethan were a safe space for Moriah (having her over to visit, having her move in with them, taking her on trips with her) it would have been nice to hear a little bit more kindness from Moriah. 

Also Micah throwing the grenade of "what do you think of all the peace love acceptance stuff from the Rastafarians" was a little off side. 

I think that Olivia and Ethan especially could benefit from some time without Moriah and Micah around (surely the marriage must be feeling a little crowded?) 

 

[Petronella]

On 8/6/2022 at 1:22 AM, waltraute said:

I saw a snippet where Ethan confronts his mother about his lack of education. He told her she didn't try, or didn't put effort into schooling. She said, well remember, you didn't like being in front of a monitor so we let you pursue your passion with cars. He told her, I was just a kid, you should have made me, and you didn't try.

Sounds like Kim used a computer the way Jill Rod uses workbooks. What Ethan didn't have the words for, probably doesn't even realize, is that is NOT teaching. He's 100% correct, she didn't try if that's all she did.

How in God's name can these people bash public schools so vehemently? 

Ugh, I have so many feelings about this.

We homeschooled for many years and it went great. We saw a lot of different styles of homeschooling in the families around us. This particular style (“the kid only has to do what they want to do”) has some reasonable root. Working with a child’s natural strengths, rather than forcing them into a style or level that doesn’t fit well, makes sense. Letting them go deep studying/working on what they love makes sense. But taking it to the extreme that they literally ONLY do what they want to do is a faulty philosophy, as most extremes are.

What someone “wants” to accomplish long-term may be at odds with what they “want” to do right now. Helping them work on their long-term wants by pushing through their in-the-moment “don’t feel like it”s is really important. Everyone needs to learn how to do this. Helping them conquer something that at first seemed too far out of their zone is something they’ll never forget.

And without experiencing different things, things that might be intimidating or seem boring at first, you often don’t yet know what you might want in the long run or be good at.

Homeschool parents who go the extreme of the “NOTHING except what they naturally choose” route come in two kinds. There’s the true believer, who is genuinely convinced that a child’s natural curiosity is a profound force that will win in the end if they’re patient and that a child learning from their own desires is learning more and better than a child being forced. A lot of these parents are reacting to having felt stifled in their own childhoods and forced into assembly-line learning. Their ideas are partly true, but kids need help and guidance along the way! Freedom is good, but too much freedom is abandonment.

Then there’s the “homeschooling is so much work—oh, look, this philosophy means I can chill out and leave the kids to teach themselves” contingent. They define homeschooling not by what they actively do, but by what they avoid: going to school. It can be a survival mechanism for the overwhelmed or an easy out for the uninterested.

I feel so sad for Ethan here. And for the mom too, even though it was her doing. There was so much hard-sell of this kind of homeschooling in those days, and so much reinforcement from other fundies; I see how someone could get caught up in it. I would be broken if my kids ever tell me I messed up their childhoods that much.

Most of all, though, I feel for Ethan and the other kids, wondering what could have been.

[DalmatianCat]

7 hours ago, LacyMay said:

All the applause for this. 

Olivia isn't by any means perfect, but Moriah seems to be pretty content to toss Olivia aside now that she no longer needs that support/validation/bond. I always felt like Olivia really went above and beyond to make sure that her and Ethan were a safe space for Moriah (having her over to visit, having her move in with them, taking her on trips with her) it would have been nice to hear a little bit more kindness from Moriah. 

Also Micah throwing the grenade of "what do you think of all the peace love acceptance stuff from the Rastafarians" was a little off side. 

I think that Olivia and Ethan especially could benefit from some time without Moriah and Micah around (surely the marriage must be feeling a little crowded?) 

 

I see it a little differently (probably an unpopular opinion)…I feel like Olivia was only partially supporting Moriah and more egging her on in order to validate her own MIL problems, while also being thrilled to have a partner in crime. She’s controlling and manipulative but in different things than Kim. She seems to want people to do what she wants them to do or she doesn’t have much use for them. I think she loved being the wise, mature, experienced mentor to the Plath kids (especially her husband which has always made the relationship seem weird) and it validated her own journey. It made her feel needed, like she had purpose, like she belonged. I think some of the behavior we’re seeing this season from Olivia is panic that she’s not needed anymore by her husband, SIL, and BIL. I think she struggles with identity just as much as the rest of the family and she ends up emulating the same controlling behavior she calls out in her in-laws.

Based off her Instagram where she and Ethan are away traveling and (seemingly) happy and the family’s most recent statement, I’m guessing she and Ethan might be ready for an estrangement from the entire extended family again. It does seem like their marriage works when they’re far away from everyone and on their own adventure in neutral territory. The day-to-day routine of married life is what seems to get them down. I’d still be surprised to see this marriage lasting long-term, especially since Ethan has already said Olivia causes drama like his mother. If he said that out loud in front of a camera, he’s probably thinking a lot more. If he decides Olivia is too toxic for him, he’ll drop her because that’s what she taught him to do and I think that scares her.

And based on the statement…if the family knows the way things are being presented is bad for the kids, get off TV!

 

[käsekuchen]

I seem to have missed the credit card drama. What happened?

[JDuggs]

@DalmatianCat I agree with a lot of what you said. I think Olivia very much enjoyed her mentor role to Moriah. I think she she’s Moriah as a kindred spirit and wanted to show her how to forge her own path. I didn’t like how Olivia forced Ethan out of his comfort zone all the time like when she practically forced him to get a tattoo. But I don’t think that Olivia has been forcing the family to choose between her and Kim. Olivia always seemed okay with Moriah having a relationship with Kim as long as Olivia didn’t have to be part of it. Now, the family is saying to Olivia that they’re unhappy with her if she doesn’t choose to be involved with Kim. And for Moriah, who spent months locked in her bedroom not speaking to anyone because she was depressed about douchebag Max, to now claim she hates drama, is kind of rich. Moriah never publicly acknowledged the safety net that Olivia and Ethan provided while she worked through her problems.

I think it was easier for Olivia to cut herself off from her family and she wanted Ethan to do the same. I think that Ethan would have been okay totally cutting himself off from his parents, except that he’s too attached to his siblings to be able to make that break. It’s kind of interesting to see how Kim and Barry braking up have led the kids to value family togetherness even more. Somehow Kim came up with a brilliant plan of giving Barry the boot, which ended up driving a wedge between her kids and Olivia. Win/win for Kim.

[waltraute]

7 hours ago, Petronella said:

I feel so sad for Ethan here. And for the mom too, even though it was her doing. There was so much hard-sell of this kind of homeschooling in those days, and so much reinforcement from other fundies; I see how someone could get caught up in it. I would be broken if my kids ever tell me I messed up their childhoods that much.

I agree with your post about the many ways to learn and that the passion-fueled directive can be a good one if done properly. Certainly, sitting in a classroom is not the end-all, be-all learning method for many children. I had a math tutor in college who had been homeschooled for religious reasons. She had a love for numbers so the parents ran with that and went all out helping her with her passion. She was extremely well versed in other subjects too, so it doesn't seem like anything was lost with the tight focus on math. Any gaps in her knowledge were more because of their religious beliefs (specifically some aspects in the biological sciences). I never felt like this was a glaring omission, though, because they had taught her how to learn utilizing her own innate learning tendencies. If and when the time came that she would want to explore those topics, I have no doubt she would pick them up quickly.

I get the feeling that Kim cared more about keeping the kids from public influences and simultaneously in taking the easiest path than in any real learning. I don't feel like she was caught up in anything, except what would take the least amount of effort. I'm getting this from what we see with the younger ones and their workbooks and from the fact that it is Lydia who goes home during work breaks to make sure they are on track with schooling.

Speaking of which, Lydia's role in the family is squicking me out. I hope it is just a matter of editing. She seems to be filling in too much for her mother and it is uncomfortable. I would like to see her move out with friends and enjoy the life of a young single woman.

5 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

And based on the statement…if the family knows the way things are being presented is bad for the kids, get off TV!

I absolutely agree! If the TV presentation of their situation is damaging the children, instead of crying about it on social media - do something! They are choosing money over a healthy life for their children. That is not the viewers' fault, that is their own choice.

[LacyMay]

12 hours ago, JDuggs said:

But I don’t think that Olivia has been forcing the family to choose between her and Kim. Olivia always seemed okay with Moriah having a relationship with Kim as long as Olivia didn’t have to be part of it. Now, the family is saying to Olivia that they’re unhappy with her if she doesn’t choose to be involved with Kim. And for Moriah, who spent months locked in her bedroom not speaking to anyone because she was depressed about douchebag Max, to now claim she hates drama, is kind of rich. Moriah never publicly acknowledged the safety net that Olivia and Ethan provided while she worked through her problems.

Moriah's line about "if you make me choose I'm going to pick the person who isn't making me choose" had me super confused, I know tv doesn't show everything but I never got the impression that Olivia said "Kim or me" 

Olivia has certainly made *her* boundaries clear but hasn't enforced them on anyone else (except maybe last season at the concert thing where Olivia said she didn't want Kim to attend...) 

The fact that it played out on Joshua's birthday at the cemetery is AWFUL and a Terrie situation for everyone (definitely some made for TV drama) but again Olivia didn't seem upset that Moriah was going so much as blindsided at Kim now going when she wasn't expecting it.

 

 

 

 

 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Episode 9, “You Have a Lot of Nerve”

Barry and Ethan meet for pizza. Ethan orders a beer and Barry doesn’t object. In a TH, Barry wishes he hadn’t been so stubborn with Ethan. Ethan thanks Barry for respecting Olivia’s wishes that he not attend Moriah’s gig. In a TH, Ethan says that he trusts his father, but not his meddling, controlling, manipulative mother. Barry and Ethan agree that men are less emotional. Ethan says he knows some guys who understand women’s emotions, and that’s weird. “It gives me a headache.” Barry hopes Ethan will learn more about communicating with Olivia. He only implies in a TH that Ethan is eventually going to get dumped like he did. They agree to repair their own relationship without bringing the women into it. Ethan acknowledges that he was angry for a long time, but he’s no longer angry with Barry. Barry is proud of Ethan and they both say “I love you.” Barry says the old Ethan is back. Ethan looks happier than he ever looks around his wife.

Ethan’s riding a new motorcycle home. He didn’t want to talk to Olivia over the phone, so she doesn’t know about his eventful trip yet. (If he’s taking the back roads instead of the interstate, he might be stopping at the bar in Dunedin between Tampa and Cairo.) He’s thinking about his parents’ divorce. 

Back in Tampa, Nathan observes that Ethan was supposed to be back a week ago. Olivia says she called him 16 times and he picked up once. Olivia knows about the separation from friends In Cairo. He arrives in a stranger’s minivan because his new motorcycle is in the shop. This is ostensibly random timing, except that they’re filming. Also, he doesn’t have luggage. Anyway, he left the old motorcycle with Philip. Olivia wants to know why he didn’t tell [she means “ask”] her; he seems to think that it would have been a fun surprise. In a TH, he says he’s in a bad mood and about done. She says “welcome home, motorcycle-less,” a random comment that he takes badly. He goes into the house, slamming the door a little. She follows him in and he asks how mad she is. She’s “decently pissed.” He doesn’t even have the excuse that they were separated this time. In an after-season TH, he says he’s not going to tell her about the separation on camera [meaning he has to put up with filming this stupid little fight instead]. Olivia knows that he’s upset and why. He asks if she wants to come along when he goes to fix the new bike. She says, “The bike you didn’t tell me about? You have a lot of nerve. But maybe.” She pushes him to open up. He doesn’t. She finally hugs him.

In Cairo, Kim is looking at - oddly enough - her own baby photos. Lydia comes in and asks about Kim’s mother. Kim says she was close to her mother and misses her. Lydia has acne and she didn’t do a good job covering it. Lydia wants to talk. Kim doesn’t know how to move forward. Lydia thinks she should be able to fix her marriage. Kim wants to know how long that will take - another 24 years? Lydia says that one touch of the spirit can heal. In a TH, Kim politely says that human love is different from spiritual love. Kim tells Lydia that she’s lonely and tired of being neglected. Lydia basically says that God can keep her from being lonely and Kim basically points out that when she gets married, she’s going to want her husband to pay attention to her. In a TH, Lydia talks about marriage being a covenant. They hug and say “I love you.”

Back to Tampa. Olivia summarizes their conversation for the camera as that he needs to be more honest and she needs to control her reaction more. They’re getting ready to ride the new bike. Olivia endorses Ethan resuming his relationship with Barry “without your mom in the picture.” Olivia: Secrets are bad. Fighting is okay. Ethan: I don’t like fighting. Olivia: Go marry a wall.

Moriah makes her one brief appearance in the episode, laughing at Ethan, who is making their smart TV fart. It’s Dish network and appears to be product placement. The Plaths only had a little TV with educational tapes. They agree that they want to see the things they missed. 

In Thomasville, Micah and Kim go to a bar. He gives her a sip of his margarita. Barry doesn’t drink (unless kombucha counts). Micah buys shots, and drinks all of his and most of hers. Kim’s been abstaining from almost everything for many years, and now she’s confident that God knows her heart, and she doesn’t want to miss out on so much, but she  didn’t feel like she was sitting at home wanting to go drinking. He asks if she talked to Barry about how she wasn’t happy, and she says yes. They agree that he’s hard to connect with, though he’s making an effort now. Micah says in a TH that the family communication was really bad, and they’re all working on it now. He asks Kim why they were raised that way. Kim says “it’s uncomfortable.” When she was 4-5, her mom hired a teen boy to watch her. She strongly implies, but doesn’t quite say, that he molested her. The risk of under protection is so great, that it’s better to err on the side of overprotection. Micah says in a TH, “As soon as she told me, all the pieces fit together.” Micah tells her that he had realized that something more than religion was going on with them. In the TH, Micah says that he had always felt judged by his parents, and now he thinks they can have a bigger connection.

Next time: Ethan goes snorkeling; Micah tends bar and flirts with Antia; Kim tells Barry she wants a divorce; Ethan, Olivia, and Moriah go to Cairo.
 

 

[LacyMay]

I really hope that Kim opening up more about what happened to her as a kid can be the beginning of her doing some of the actual hard work to being a better person+parent. 

Kim has certainly shown herself to be manipulative and cruel and that's not excusable. I do wonder though how much of it was rooted in some seriously twisted desire/need to "protect" the kids and in her mind keep them safe. 

That combined with some of Berry's stricter tendencies (I do think the lack of sugar etc may have been more him) might have caused a perfect toxic storm that can hopefully begin to be unraveled now. 

Moriah and Micah at least do seem to genuinely care about Kim right now.

[noseybutt]

On 8/7/2022 at 2:33 AM, Petronella said:

Ugh, I have so many feelings about this.

We homeschooled for many years and it went great. We saw a lot of different styles of homeschooling in the families around us. This particular style (“the kid only has to do what they want to do”) has some reasonable root. Working with a child’s natural strengths, rather than forcing them into a style or level that doesn’t fit well, makes sense. Letting them go deep studying/working on what they love makes sense. But taking it to the extreme that they literally ONLY do what they want to do is a faulty philosophy, as most extremes are.

What someone “wants” to accomplish long-term may be at odds with what they “want” to do right now. Helping them work on their long-term wants by pushing through their in-the-moment “don’t feel like it”s is really important. Everyone needs to learn how to do this. Helping them conquer something that at first seemed too far out of their zone is something they’ll never forget.

And without experiencing different things, things that might be intimidating or seem boring at first, you often don’t yet know what you might want in the long run or be good at.

Homeschool parents who go the extreme of the “NOTHING except what they naturally choose” route come in two kinds. There’s the true believer, who is genuinely convinced that a child’s natural curiosity is a profound force that will win in the end if they’re patient and that a child learning from their own desires is learning more and better than a child being forced. A lot of these parents are reacting to having felt stifled in their own childhoods and forced into assembly-line learning. Their ideas are partly true, but kids need help and guidance along the way! Freedom is good, but too much freedom is abandonment.

Then there’s the “homeschooling is so much work—oh, look, this philosophy means I can chill out and leave the kids to teach themselves” contingent. They define homeschooling not by what they actively do, but by what they avoid: going to school. It can be a survival mechanism for the overwhelmed or an easy out for the uninterested.

I feel so sad for Ethan here. And for the mom too, even though it was her doing. There was so much hard-sell of this kind of homeschooling in those days, and so much reinforcement from other fundies; I see how someone could get caught up in it. I would be broken if my kids ever tell me I messed up their childhoods that much.

Most of all, though, I feel for Ethan and the other kids, wondering what could have been.

 

Really interesting post. 

Do we know the timing of when Kim "gave up" on trying to educate him and instead had him work on cars? I am wondering if this was after the death of the younger child.

Kim is not a sympathetic figure to me. At all.

She had a gazillion rules for the kids and I am guessing so much energy went into enforcing the rules that she didn't have much left in her when it came to enforcing boundaries around education. Plus grief and depression and busyness of a large family.

Also, it is odd to me that Ethan appears to have money and time and opportunity on his hands but doesn't seem to be making a move towards community college or whatever education he feels he missed out on. He is not without resources.

 

 

[JDuggs]

1 hour ago, noseybutt said:

Do we know the timing of when Kim "gave up" on trying to educate him and instead had him work on cars? I am wondering if this was after the death of the younger child.

She had a gazillion rules for the kids and I am guessing so much energy went into enforcing the rules that she didn't have much left in her when it came to enforcing boundaries around education. Plus grief and depression and busyness of a large family.

Ethan was ten years old and the oldest of seven when Joshua died. Kim was pregnant at the time and had three more kids after Joshua died. I believe Kim mentioned being an emotional wreck for a couple of years after the accident. It’s kind of amazing these kids are educated at all. These kids are all decent musicians. I’m guessing they spent more time on music than school. I think all of the older kids have had a difficult time processing Joshua’s death. They all seem like bright capable people.

I think Ethan would benefit a lot by trying out college and challenging himself academically. He needs to take a little more control of his life now instead of spending too much time looking back at what he missed.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Episode 10, “I wasn’t invited”

Moriah and Ethan are on St. Pete Beach. They’re glad to get away from the drama. Ethan admits that he likes the city. Moriah admits that she misses the country. She says she wants to go to Georgia for Joshua’s birthday and she wants the whole family to come to the grave with her. Ethan says that he paid Moriah’s bills for a few months while she was depressed over “that asshole” Max. She’s doing a lot better now. 

Ethan puts on goggles and flippers. Moriah laughs at him. He enjoys snorkeling. Ethan runs along the shore, looking dumb in the flippers, but he’s in really good shape.

Micah tends bar for a friend’s art show premiere party. He’s done it a couple of times before. Antia is there. They flirt. She tells the producers that Kapeesh cock-blocked her when he interrupted to ask for a trash bag. The producer asks if she’s there to see Micah or the art. She says “the art, of course! How dare you!” This is extra adorable in her Spanish accent. 

Back in Tampa, the girls have a stripper pole in the house now. They’re off to Cairo. Moriah is visiting Joshua’s grave twice, once with her siblings and once with her parents. Olivia has talked to Barry on the phone, and she invited him to the grave. This upsets Moriah, because it’s going to be the whole family except Kim, and also, things are going to be on Olivia’s terms. Moriah had dinner alone with Barry recently, and it went really well. Olivia has realized that she can’t leave Cairo behind forever, so she has to figure out what she’s okay with.

After checking that Kim isn’t home, they arrive at the Plath house. The little girls are thrilled to see Olivia again. The girls take Olivia to their room. Lydia doesn’t seem to be home. Ethan asks Barry what’s going on, and he says they’re getting divorced. That makes Ethan question things, and think about whether he and Olivia might divorce. Barry says he would understand better if he talks to Kim. 

Kim is at her apartment over the dance studio. She says the “I wasn’t invited” of the title. She doesn’t understand what she did to hurt Olivia so much. She wants Ethan and Barry to reconnect, so she’s willing to be lonely for a while. 

Olivia and the girls visit the Plaths’ pet bunnies. How have we not met the bunnies? Now everyone’s discussing their plans. Ethan says he can’t spend time with Kim until they have a serious talk. Olivia is surprised to hear him basically announce his intention to reconcile. In a TH, she “has feelings” but it’s “not her place” to say anything. Barry points out that Kim is probably feeling ostracized, and you can see everyone remember how Joshua died. In a TH, Moriah blames Olivia for including Barry but not Kim. Moriah says “how are you so sweet?” and Barry says “the grace of God.” Ethan tells Moriah she doesn’t have it. The siblings head out to the farm, with Barry planning to follow later.

Next time: youthful frolicking on the farm; Moriah tells Olivia “everyone’s going to be welcome” and Olivia bails (“past trauma that took years!”); the Plaths remember Joshua and Ethan feels awkward about seeing Kim; Olivia and Ethan have another argument.

[JDuggs]

Micah has welcomed Barry to the Gun Show!

Spoiler