Plathville 2: The Whole Family Needs Therapy

[QuiverFullofBooks]

14 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

Was Barry raised quiverful fundie?

Barry was divorced before he married Kim. I think they both went fundie hoping to improve on their pasts, and then they reinforced each other. Plus it was a popular movement at the time.

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Barry was divorced before he married Kim. I think they both went fundie hoping to improve on their pasts, and then they reinforced each other. Plus it was a popular movement at the time.

Wait. How does that jive with episode 2 and nobody in the family having a relationship end. Convenient re-writing of history?

[JermajestyDuggar]

I personally think it’s easier to get out of fundieland if you weren’t born into it. Kim and Barry have plenty of non fundie family that are probably going to welcome them back after their stint in fundieland. They likely won’t lose lots of family due to leaving fundieland. This was the same for Abigail Miller leaving and Erica Shupe leaving. They did not grow up fundie so they don’t have as much to lose. The same goes for the Duggars and Bateses. They could have left fundieland and their families would have been fine with it. But no. They just dug their heels in more. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

2 hours ago, noseybutt said:

Wait. How does that jive with episode 2 and nobody in the family having a relationship end. Convenient re-writing of history?

Sorry, my bad. It was something Lydia said, and it was more like “none of us.” I should have clarified it as the Plath kids, rather than the family. Kim very much dated around before Barry. 

[JDuggs]

The Plaths are basically not fundie anymore. “Immodest” clothing, alcohol, divorce, premarital sex for some. What Kim really needs to give up is the homeschooling. Ethan and Micah have been very upfront that they felt their homeschool education was lacking. They need to give the three youngest a chance at an education now since Kim’s heart and motivation are obviously not into it anymore. Lydia is the only one in the family who seems at all focused on God. I wonder if any of the rest of them even really care about religion anymore.

I watch the show faithfully because I find their movement away from their fundiness interesting. It is so aggravating though when the producers don’t ask the right questions and the family generally avoids confronting their issues with each other.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Episode 4, “A Double Life,” part 1. I have figured out how to watch my mom’s cable at home! It’s very exciting.

After some quick recaps, we open with Ethan packing to go back to Cairo, because he needs his cars. Olivia is reluctantly coming along. She has a gut feeling that she needs to be there. He doesn’t actually want her there, partly because he hasn’t told her about the new car and he’s really dreading it. She’s annoyed that he doesn’t appreciate her offer of help (because he needs a break from you, Olivia!). Moriah knows about the car and doesn’t like keeping the secret. She sees that it’s not a good idea, and observes that Ethan has always been secretive.

Kim announces the separation. She’s been living at any vacant rental property. Right now she’s at their farm, and it’s so weird to be alone there. As soon as Barry thought it was working, he stopped trying. He cried when she told him she was leaving. 

The farm is lovely, and if you would like to check it out, it’s “Farmhouse at the Retreat at Silver Rein” on AirBNB. Click on Kim - she’s a superhost! - to see the other properties. She has a cabin on the pond where she goes kayaking, a nice house in Cairo, and an apartment in Cairo (almost certainly upstairs from the dance studio). 

Ethan and Olivia are having a tense ride up to Cairo. He doesn’t want her to join him when he hangs out with Issac. He says, “We’re not going to do everything together on this trip. There’s going to be certain times where I’m going to go do stuff by myself, and that’s that.” He states flatly that he had wanted to go alone. Whoa, these two are a mess. He’s being much worse than she is, but she does need to learn to recognize and accept what he wants to do.

In a TH - in the same outfit as the previous episodes, sigh - Olivia says that he’s uncommunicative (he often doesn’t answer calls and texts) and she’s suspicious. She uses the title phrase, “a double life.” 

Back to the cringeworthy conversation in the car. She feels shut out. He feels confused. She says he’s refusing to deal with her and they’re going to go back to their marital problems. [Voiceover by Olivia - He’s not emotional, so he thinks she’s overly emotional.] They’re almost to Cairo. He’s excited, she’s almost in tears. He actually says, “Why do you look so down? I probably wouldn’t have taken you along if I’d have known you were just going to be this sad.” The producers put it in text over the video so that you know he really said that foolishness. 

I’m not even halfway into the show, and there is drama to come, so I’m going to post this now. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Episode 4, “A Double Life,” part two.

Establishing shots - Tampa at night. Moriah is hanging out with Olivia’s brother, Nathan. They’re making hot chocolate to take out to the fire pit. Moriah’s been so depressed that she’s hasn’t talked to Nathan lately. Nathan TH: Olivia’s trying to fix the marriage. Ethan doesn’t realize that and just wants to keep the car a secret. Back in the kitchen, Nathan asks Moriah why she changed her hair color. She says she had bad associations with her purple hair. It’s now a two-tone look with silver on top of blonde. Moriah voiceover: she’s not ready to let Max go, or to let him back in. She’s trying to build a life for herself. Nathan and Moriah agree that the Ethan/Olivia/car issue is going to be a huge conflict. 

Now to LA, where Micah’s friend Kapeesh is making Indian food (mutter paneer). Micah has never eaten Indian food. (He has eaten a caterpillar to impress his siblings.) Micah tells his friends that he had a “good first date” and she asked him how long it had been since he had sex (presumably after they had already done it) and he admitted that it was the previous night. That certainly answers my question from the last episode. She still went out with him three more times. Micah says in voiceover that his parents taught him to be honest and that sex is sacred; he realized at 13 or 14 that he wasn’t going to refrain from premarital sex. Kapeesh hasn’t dated much, like Micah a few years ago. The food was good.

Oh, God, back to Cairo. The things I do for you people. Ethan is very happy to be back in the shop with his buddy Philip. Olivia is happy that Philip is there, because he includes her, and in the past, he’s encouraged Ethan to talk to her more. Olivia enjoys cleaning a car engine. She does not tie her hair back. Like Scarlett O’Hara, another Georgian with a gift for compartmentalization, Ethan puts off dealing with the new car issue. [Did they never combine their finances? If they had separate finances while they were separated, did they stick with that? Why doesn’t she know?] Philip TH: he likes them both, but sees their problems. Olivia asks Ethan if they can finish in a week. He says maybe one car, but probably not. Ethan sounds surprised when he admits in his TH that he liked having Olivia there. 

At the Plath home, Barry’s sad and angry and still admires Kim and feels shut out of her life. He told the children the night before. He did not discuss this with Kim in advance. He’s talking with the kids in the kitchen. Issac has a job at the airport; it sounds like it was intended to be part-time, but he worked 40 hours last week. Lydia is working at a bank. She talks with Barry more than she used to. She’s helping the girls with school. (“Mom helps me out too, sometimes.”) Barry thanks Lydia, trying unsuccessfully not to sound resentful about the “curricula items that are needed.” He asks the kids if they have questions. Issac asks if he knows when and why it started. Barry says no, adding in a TH that he does know part of it, but he needs time to process. In a TH, Lydia doesn’t know what happened, but understands that Kim’s still processing. Barry gives the kids the classic “we both still love you and it’s not your fault” talk. Lydia praises Barry for his love and support. Barry is crying, which Lydia had previously seen only at her brother’s funeral. 

Back to the garage. Moriah pushes Ethan to confess, in a phone call out of Olivia’s earshot. In voiceover, Ethan admits that he avoids confrontation; he sneaked around his parents’ many rules and he’s good at it. In the garage, Olivia says she always liked the cars, just not Cairo, or his avoidance. He says he’s always going to come back to his car friends in Cairo. She already looks annoyed, so it’s time for the car reveal! He feels like he’s going to his death. And, of course, the episode ends there. 

Next time: Micah tells his friends more tales of dysfunction. Olivia tells Moriah to order the flowers for Ethan’s funeral. Kim talks with the little girls. Amber tells Kim that if she’s the one who wants out of the marriage, she should be the one to move out of the house.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

5 hours ago, JDuggs said:

The Plaths are basically not fundie anymore. “Immodest” clothing, alcohol, divorce, premarital sex for some. What Kim really needs to give up is the homeschooling. Ethan and Micah have been very upfront that they felt their homeschool education was lacking. They need to give the three youngest a chance at an education now since Kim’s heart and motivation are obviously not into it anymore. Lydia is the only one in the family who seems at all focused on God. I wonder if any of the rest of them even really care about religion anymore.

I watch the show faithfully because I find their movement away from their fundiness interesting. It is so aggravating though when the producers don’t ask the right questions and the family generally avoids confronting their issues with each other.

Isn't the oldest daughter still fundie? 

The problem with giving up homeschooling is that they might lose control of the youngest daughters. Fundamentalism is all about controlling the children, especially the girls.

[DalmatianCat]

Ethan obviously has issues with communication in his marriage and being honest with his spouse. Knowing his background, it’s not surprising. What stands out to me, is Olivia knows about most of these issues/behaviors and used to encourage them. She was always egging Ethan on, telling him to be his own person, not let his parent control his life, manipulate him, etc. even though she was doing basically the same thing to him. (When she tricked him into trying edible gummy bears after he’d been adamant about not wanting any always rubbed me the wrong way.)
Now that he’s away from his parents Ethan seems to finally be realizing that he went from one controlling situation to another. It shouldn’t surprise Olivia that he’s using the same sneaking around/conflict avoidance tactics on her that he did on his parents.
She seems to enjoy taking time for herself when she goes and photographs destination weddings, but struggled to give Ethan the same space when it’s not her idea. Even if Ethan had been honest about buying the car and wasn’t hiding anything, I still think she would probably insist on accompanying him anytime he requested alone time.

I hope they have a good marriage therapist (and not the one the Brown family from “Sister Wives” uses!), because they need one!

Edited July 30, 2022 by DalmatianCat
More thoughts

[QuiverFullofBooks]

6 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

Ethan obviously has issues with communication in his marriage and being honest with his spouse. Knowing his background, it’s not surprising. What stands out to me, is Olivia knows about most of these issues/behaviors and used to encourage them. She was always egging Ethan on, telling him to be his own person, not let his parent control his life, manipulate him, etc. even though she was doing basically the same thing to him. (When she tricked him into trying edible gummy bears after he’d been adamant about not wanting any always rubbed me the wrong way.)
Now that he’s away from his parents Ethan seems to finally be realizing that he went from one controlling situation to another. It shouldn’t surprise Olivia that he’s using the same sneaking around/conflict avoidance tactics on her that he did on his parents.
She seems to enjoy taking time for herself when she goes and photographs destination weddings, but struggled to give Ethan the same space when it’s not her idea. Even if Ethan had been honest about buying the car and wasn’t hiding anything, I still think she would probably insist on accompanying him anytime he requested alone time.

I hope they have a good marriage therapist (and not the one the Brown family from “Sister Wives” uses!), because they need one!

I totally agree. Ethan didn’t eat the gummy bears; he saw through Olivia’s manipulation.

[JDuggs]

17 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Isn't the oldest daughter still fundie? 

The problem with giving up homeschooling is that they might lose control of the youngest daughters. Fundamentalism is all about controlling the children, especially the girls.

Since the oldest daughter Hosanna doesn’t appear on the show and leads a very private life, I wasn’t including her in my comment.

I think the three youngest girls now have different types of role models in the family, and they see how the parents love them all, even if they drink alcohol, wear “immodest” clothing, have tattoos and have premarital sex. So what is Kim trying to control at this point? Kim is now demonstrating that she feels that personal happiness is more important than a marriage commitment. Although it comes off as phony, Kim is “following her dream” of owning a dance studio. What purpose would limiting her youngest daughters’ educational opportunities serve at this point?

[JermajestyDuggar]

I guarantee hosanna is still very fundie. I bet she can’t stand the show because it’s showcasing all the cracks in her family and how many seem to be leaving fundamentalism. Imagine being raised a certain way and completely following your parents’ rules. After you are married, almost everyone in the family starts to leave fundieland one by one and your parents divorce. All on tv. I bet hosanna hates it. I wonder if she confides in Nurie about it and then Nurie tells Jill. We know Jill loves feeling superior. 

[noseybutt]

On 7/29/2022 at 11:11 AM, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Sorry, my bad. It was something Lydia said, and it was more like “none of us.” I should have clarified it as the Plath kids, rather than the family. Kim very much dated around before Barry. 

Makes sense.

This family strikes me as sad given they can't stop repeating the same patterns over and over again. So many insecure and controlling and hurting people all on one family tree.

 

ETA Feeling the need to add a thank you for taking one for the team because I can stomach the summaries but cannot imagine watching the show as entertainment.

Edited July 30, 2022 by noseybutt

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Episode 5, “I was born on the dining room table,” part one

Back to The Big Reveal. In a TH, Ethan shows the producer that he squeezed the plastic cap of a Coke bottle out of shape to deal with his anxiety. Lots of tension on both sides as he shows her the car. (And ominous music, of course.) She asks when he bought it and he says it was when they were separated, using money from selling tools and equipment that he didn’t move to Tampa. She doesn’t really react, but Ethan says in voiceover that it didn’t go well. In a TH (wearing the same damn outfits!) she reiterates that this is the behavior that led to the separation and says it was really hurtful that he did it again. Back in the garage, he asks if she’s upset and she says she’s fine. [Olivia! You’re not fine!] He says in a TH that they don’t get each other, and that if working on his cars is a setback in their marriage, it’s not much of a marriage.

Off to LA. Hayden’s Brazilian girlfriend Amanda comes over with her Spanish friend, Antia. Micah likes meeting people from other places. They study acting together. Micah would also like to study acting. He’s about to go to Florida to celebrate his 21st birthday with his family. He tells them about Kim’s births. He was born on the dining room table, and three siblings were born in the car on the way to the midwife. Everyone else was born at home. Barry delivered some of the babies. Old photos of the rapidly expanding Plath family. The girls’ minds are blown.

Micah grew up thinking that his family was normal. He was embarrassed in the past, but now it’s a good conversation starter (“shocked out of their pants”). He knew early on that they were different, just from seeing other people in the grocery store. “Some of my siblings are not adjusting as quickly as I am.” He says Ethan stayed in what Hayden terms his “comfort zone” for a long time. Micah notes that he’s the only sibling not living with a sibling or spouse. Amanda notes that she and Antia are like Micah; they’re ambitious and they left home. In THs, Micah and Antia are interested in each other.

Lydia’s voiceover tells us that they’ve been going to church in Tallahassee and spending more time there. Lydia and Barry are having a picnic alone in a Tallahassee park. It’s a staged conversation for the camera with a lot of cuts to each of them talking alone. I’m getting a feeling that Lydia is taking on the wife and mother roles. In Barry’s TH, he says he doesn’t want to burden her, but talking to her helps. He tells Lydia that he’s trying to be patient with Kim. Lydia says that Kim leaving was a huge shock for her. In her TH, she says that looking back, there were times when she noticed that Kim “wasn’t 100% content.” She also says in a TH that the girls are starting to treat her like their mom. Barry tells Lydia that he’s still wondering if it’s just a midlife crisis. They agree that the situation requires a lot of grace from everyone. He says that he thought about refusing to sign the papers for the dance studio because Kim had hurt him, but he decided not to be like that. He hopes that Kim will find “another piece to her puzzle.” Barry says in a TH that they got married in 3 or 4 months and had four kids in five years. He regrets not asking tough questions. Lydia asks what he’s said to Micah and Moriah, and he says he had good conversations with them, but Ethan still doesn’t know. It doesn’t seem to occur to Barry that Ethan is in touch with his siblings. [I wonder if there’s a Plath family group text?] Ethan stopped answering Barry’s texts. Barry says in TH that a silver lining of breaking up with Kim is that he might be able to form a new relationship with Ethan. Barry and Lydia get sentimental as they end the scene, with a mildly romantic vibe. Maybe it’s just the setting.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I guarantee hosanna is still very fundie. I bet she can’t stand the show because it’s showcasing all the cracks in her family and how many seem to be leaving fundamentalism. Imagine being raised a certain way and completely following your parents’ rules. After you are married, almost everyone in the family starts to leave fundieland one by one and your parents divorce. All on tv. I bet hosanna hates it. I wonder if she confides in Nurie about it and then Nurie tells Jill. We know Jill loves feeling superior. 

If Jill knew anything, she would post about it. I don't think Jill could keep it a secret.

All fundies love feeling superior. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

If Jill knew anything, she would post about it. I don't think Jill could keep it a secret.

All fundies love feeling superior. 

Jill can keep a secret. I think she vague-books about it but won’t directly say it. 

[FiveAcres]

8 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Jill can keep a secret. I think she vague-books about it but won’t directly say it. 

I hate vague-booking. When I run across it on Facebook I tend to put a 30 day block on the person, even if I think I know what it is about. Either say it directly or keep quiet until you can say it directly. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

I hate vague-booking. When I run across it on Facebook I tend to put a 30 day block on the person, even if I think I know what it is about. Either say it directly or keep quiet until you can say it directly. 

Jill is the queen of vague-booking. Every time she does it, I think, “which ex friend is she passive aggressively shaming now?”

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Episode 5, “I was born on the dining room table,” part two. 

Ethan drives the formerly secret car into the shop. In voiceover, he says that Olivia told him she was going back to the hotel, then texted him that she was leaving and the car was at the hotel. Naturally, he just keeps working on the car. [Of course, we know that the drama will ultimately blow over, both because they exist in the real world and have social media, and because they obviously did their THs together after filming the season.]

Anyway, Ethan is talking to Philip in the shop. He’s super happy about the car. He loves the serenity of car work, though he knows it causes problems with Olivia. [Get a day job as a mechanic already, Ethan!] He tells Philip that Olivia called him and said she was flying somewhere to have a few days to herself [which apparently is fine for her, but not for him]. He tells Philip he’s going to talk to her after their respective trips. Philip tells him to text her, and that this could be a step backwards if he doesn’t make it a step forwards.

Olivia went to Miami for a few days, then went back to Tampa. Moriah drives her home from the airport. Olivia says that she wanted to kill Ethan. It was about the car being in Cairo, not the car itself. Moriah tells Olivia that she knew about the car, and the Plaths procrastinate on difficult conversations.

They go to Kava Culture Kava Bar (514 N Franklin St). Moriah is feeling better and focusing on herself. (She’s still only 19!) She was having flashbacks to Joshua’s death. She was six and it impacted her a lot. Moriah says that Olivia and Ethan don’t seem to be getting what they want from each other. Olivia says she’s realizing that he’s not meeting her emotional needs. The situation is awkward, since she’s Ethan’s sister and they all live together. Olivia and Moriah agree that they should go out together more often.

At this point I checked Olivia’s Facebook to see if she’s still married. She and Ethan are all smiles together in Scotland. Enjoy that TLC money, kids! Also, they live in Tallahassee now, which was always the obvious compromise.

Anyway, back to the drama. Kim and the girls are staying at the rental house in Cairo (https://abnb.me/0yBhjnlZ5rb). They eat ice cream. Kim (in voiceover) wants to present a united front with Barry, but he’s jumped the gun and started talking with the kids. [Um, Kim, they had noticed that you left!] They play backgammon. Kim says in voiceover that they’re not as strict anymore. [Remember the first-season battle over Olivia giving the kids sugar?] 

Kim says she was trying for a do-over of her own childhood. Her mother was an alcoholic single parent who made bad decisions that put Kim in danger. There’s a photo montage that looks much like my own childhood in 1970s Florida. She wanted to protect her children, but now she wants to have more fun and trust her kids more. 

Time for The Talk. Kim started realizing that she was unhappy in her marriage, so right now, they’re separated. Amber is sad and says (in a TH) that Kim told them only a few years ago that they never had to worry about their parents divorcing. Amber asks Kim if she bought the studio because she wanted her own income. Kim says no, she just wanted to dance. Kim says in a TH that she’s thankful that Barry proceeded with the purchase even though they were having problems. Amber asks Kim why she asked Barry to leave when she was the one who wanted out. Kim says that it was because she thought she would still be taking care of the children. In voiceover, she says Amber’s question really hurt. She feels like it’s Barry’s fault too. She tells the girls that she has more flexibility to take care of them than Barry does. Amber and Kim both say that they’re concerned about Barry. Amber says that Barry isn’t thinking about himself; it’s strongly implied that Kim is being selfish. Kim tells Amber that she can say whatever she feels. Amber says she’s not mad anymore now that she’s heard Kim’s perspective. Group hug.

Ethan drives back to Tampa, dreading the confrontation with Olivia. Also next time: Moriah finds out Max posted a video with his side of the story (no makeup, so she must be beside herself); Lydia and Amber talk about the separation; Olivia and Ethan enjoy Tampa’s vibrant nightlife separately. 

[JDuggs]

4 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

 

At this point I checked Olivia’s Facebook to see if she’s still married. She and Ethan are all smiles together in Scotland. Enjoy that TLC money, kids! Also, they live in Tallahassee now, which was always the obvious compromise.

Wait, Ethan and Olivia moved from Tampa to Tallahassee? Where did you see this? 

[hollyfeller]

6 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Also, they live in Tallahassee now, which was always the obvious compromise.

My hometown...and I just moved back.  *shudder*

[Percy]

Thank you for this.

I am interested  In what is happening, but can’t watch he show.  I did try, I just couldn’t continue.  It is a difficult watch.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

12 hours ago, JDuggs said:

Wait, Ethan and Olivia moved from Tampa to Tallahassee? Where did you see this? 

Olivia’s about info on Facebook. She actually gives the full address. I wonder if she hopes people will send her stuff?

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Olivia’s about info on Facebook. She actually gives the full address. I wonder if she hopes people will send her stuff?

That’s scary. Most celebs have PO Boxes right?

[QuiverFullofBooks]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

That’s scary. Most celebs have PO Boxes right?

Well, this is interesting. I looked up the address online, and it doesn’t exist! It could be a slightly different address in Tallahassee, or it could be the same street address in Kissimmee, but both houses have realtor photos online, and neither look like Olivia and Ethan would like them.

Assuming that they did move away from Tampa, I’m thinking now that the reason why Ethan didn’t get a job in Tampa was that it was always intended to be a six-month break for him. It’s easier for the film crew to fly to Tampa than it is to fly to Atlanta and drive to Cairo, and no doubt more fun for them too. Everyone gets some space from Kim and Barry, they do a lot of filming, and then they move on with their lives.