Jed & Katey 3: Jed! the Headship Will Have a New Constituent Soon

[just_ordinary]

Only 4% of babies are actually born on their due date iirc. As with everything some babies are ready earlier, some later and some need intervention to come out for whatever reason. The due date is an average measure and not really a “pregnancy equals 280 days” set formula. So it really doesn’t matter if you know the day the sperm actually fertilised the egg. It’s still just a very educated guess. As someone up thread said, an induction can take days as well. That’s why good prenatal care is important. If anything is starting to go amiss there are thankfully many options today to prevent tragedies. I think the due date, apart from the psychological side, is much more important if you have to arrange lots of stuff regarding childcare for older siblings and work. I was off six weeks before my due date and eight weeks after, whenever the child was actually to be born (that’s the legal requirement, any additional maternal/parental leave is a different question). So if I would have been two weeks overdue I would have just had two more weeks off and from the work side with no problems at all (employee rights are a really nice cushion). That definitely helps to relax about it. Now, being eager to meet the baby and at one point just being done with pregnancy is another side of the coin. 
I was late both times and my sweet darlings only decided it was time to come when it was clear there would be an induction the next morning (one for low amniotic fluid and one because I was done).

A friend of me one said, it’s funny how children normally come when they are ready. They show you who is in charge now from the very first second.

[Meggo]

4 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

 

A friend of me one said, it’s funny how children normally come when they are ready. They show you who is in charge now from the very first second.

My son is adopted at birth and he was in a GREAT big hurry to get out! He came at (guesstimate) 31w5d and nearly delivered in the ambulance. The NICU clinic followed us for a few years and they said preemies are just... a different lot of babies entirely. That there are always "quirks" that preemies will have - for the rest of their lives. Not in a bad way - they're just a little different. And they did say they OFTEN would find these wee little babies, who you didn't think were even mobile - had somehow motored over their little blanket "fences" and had curled up in the corner of their isolettes. No one knew how they managed to do that - when they were so little etc. but they are a wiley bunch who will always surprise you. (I think the NICU has an extra soft spot in their hearts for preemies) 
 

[front hugs > duggs]

43 minutes ago, Meggo said:

My son is adopted at birth and he was in a GREAT big hurry to get out! He came at (guesstimate) 31w5d and nearly delivered in the ambulance. The NICU clinic followed us for a few years and they said preemies are just... a different lot of babies entirely. That there are always "quirks" that preemies will have - for the rest of their lives. Not in a bad way - they're just a little different. And they did say they OFTEN would find these wee little babies, who you didn't think were even mobile - had somehow motored over their little blanket "fences" and had curled up in the corner of their isolettes. No one knew how they managed to do that - when they were so little etc. but they are a wiley bunch who will always surprise you. (I think the NICU has an extra soft spot in their hearts for preemies) 
 

Can I ask you a question, as someone who is always trying to learn Is there a reason you say "is adopted at birth" as opposed to "was adopted at birth"? Is it the idea that adoption isn't a singular event? Maybe I'm reading too much into this lol

[Meggo]

9 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

Can I ask you a question, as someone who is always trying to learn Is there a reason you say "is adopted at birth" as opposed to "was adopted at birth"? Is it the idea that adoption isn't a singular event? Maybe I'm reading too much into this lol

I don't think there's really a reason. I could have said was adopted at birth (maybe I haven't had enough coffee?). I was thinking of it as "adopted-at-birth" like "is-a-preemie". Not sure. 

[Hazelbunny]

Preemie quirks: I'm not sure this would really count, but it is something I noticed. I was a preemie in 1984 (29 + 3) and my Cousins baby was a preemie (31 + 2)  a few years ago. Comparing our first few baby pictures, the difference is amazing. I am just lying in an Incubator spread out hooked up to loades of tubes and wires, my cousins baby is cuddled up in a litte blanket "nest" also hooked up to tubes and wires but  looking a lot more comfortable. (Was that normal to just have the baby lying in the incubator spread out like that in the 80s? Does anybody know?) Coincidentally we were both born at the same hospital 33 years apart.  

To this day I feel safer with 3 sides surrounding me in bed. Always have. My mum put me in the top bunk, as it was surrounded by "walls, bars - whateber". When I am in hospital I feel really uncomfortable as there are two open sides to the bed.  I'm rambling again - sorry.... 

[Meggo]

I know that out NICU had all babies on their bellies. I commented on it (“back is best”) and they inferred that since their babies are hooked up to everything- they don’t have the same concern we have at home.

and they said the babies - all babies- feel more comfortable on their bellies. More stable.

my son had the little “nest” too- like a horse shoe of blankets. (And they totally climb over them, crafty buggers)

[BadMurphy]

19 minutes ago, Meggo said:

I know that out NICU had all babies on their bellies. I commented on it (“back is best”) and they inferred that since their babies are hooked up to everything- they don’t have the same concern we have at home.

and they said the babies - all babies- feel more comfortable on their bellies. More stable.

my son had the little “nest” too- like a horse shoe of blankets. (And they totally climb over them, crafty buggers)

Oh wow that’s pretty interesting, never thought about before.

[SassyPants]

In the Nicus that I have worked in, preterm babies are placed prone (on bellies) or side lying with supportive, positive devices until they are considered term per their EDC. At that point, they are placed on their backs ( if medical condition allows) and the supportive, positional devices are removed.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Supposedly most babies sleep way better on their stomachs, which is why they had to have the "back is best" campaign to change things when the connections with SIDS was discovered.  My daughter would NOT sleep in her crib/bassinet until we did sleep training at 12 weeks, and even now it's a toss-up.  She slept on her stomach on one of our chests with the owlet smart sock or in my arms (also with the sock) until then.

As I type, she's upstairs having her nap on my husband's chest because we never managed to get her to nap in the crib either.  No such thing as personal space with that limpet in the house.

[Meggo]

I have a limpet too. He is 9.

He has always always slept best ON someone or with someone holding him. I know the hospital didn’t want us co-sleeping but I woke up a LOT of nights in the glider with my neck at a weird angle- after having fallen asleep rocking him between the 12 & 3a bottles. (I have never been that tired before or since).

and when he was old enough to be trusted in a bed with me- I would bring him in after the 6a feed because the only way to get any sleep was for HIM to sleep. (I needed my space to sleep, so he didn’t get all night)

 

and even now it’s rare that he doesn’t crawl into bed with us, cozy up to me, sigh and say “I love you Momma” before he drifts back off.

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

I have a lot of opinions about the north American vilification of cosleeping. Pretty much all mammals, including most human cultures, do it. It's possible to do safely. I wish I knew more about it when my kid was younger but he's 8 months now and will sleep in the crib. (He napped on me for months because of reflux.)

[GuineaPigCourtship]

@PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea that can be a hot topic here (and anywhere).  After 2 weeks of holding her round the clock and falling asleep on the couch a few times, I fell asleep holding her in bed and we had an amazing night of sleep together.  We coslept ever since without issue (wearing that sock).  Now she will, most nights, be able to be successfully transferred into the crib after she dozes off with me but comes to bed at some point.  She has never slept a full night in the crib.  I knew the risks and I thought this was going to be my one firm line I never crossed, but children make fools of us all.

In the end, my being exhausted and falling asleep on the couch with her (or not, just being exhausted and frustrated with a newborn) was more of a risk in our particular household.  Any child loss is tragic, and I don't want to be cavalier about it since there are risks.  If we are lucky enough to have a second child, we will reassess our choices at that point based on their needs.

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

I have a lot of opinions about the north American vilification of cosleeping. Pretty much all mammals, including most human cultures, do it. It's possible to do safely. I wish I knew more about it when my kid was younger but he's 8 months now and will sleep in the crib. (He napped on me for months because of reflux.)

I had my babies before people were anti co-sleeping. And really, most people I know still do this - I don’t know if it’s cultural or geographic or? My infants all had some sort of safe “container” crib or play yard-well, safe for the time, that’s when you still used blankets and stuffies and all that. And would sleep, or play in those sometimes. But mostly slept in with us until they were 2 ish. And come in to bed at night until much older. I breastfed so it was SO much easier than waking up at night. I’d feel really, really, really overtouched at times, but I think overall it kept me from constantly snapping. 

[CaptainFunderpants]

5 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

*snip* I breastfed so it was SO much easier than waking up at night. I’d feel really, really, really overtouched at times, but I think overall it kept me from constantly snapping. 

No judgement here. Not a mom yet (hopefully in a few years), but I've read all of the back-and-forth and I get it: people want to do what's what's safest with current recommendations. Still, from what I gather, much like fed is best: rested is best -for both moms and babies.

I assume I'll end up co-sleeping, but I also don't really move in my sleep and I'm fine sleeping on my back. That said: my mom is a super "active" sleeper and co-slept with me just fine, so... Lots of different ways to do things "right."

[zee_four]

9 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

@PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea that can be a hot topic here (and anywhere).  After 2 weeks of holding her round the clock and falling asleep on the couch a few times, I fell asleep holding her in bed and we had an amazing night of sleep together.  We coslept ever since without issue (wearing that sock).  Now she will, most nights, be able to be successfully transferred into the crib after she dozes off with me but comes to bed at some point.  She has never slept a full night in the crib.  I knew the risks and I thought this was going to be my one firm line I never crossed, but children make fools of us all.

In the end, my being exhausted and falling asleep on the couch with her (or not, just being exhausted and frustrated with a newborn) was more of a risk in our particular household.  Any child loss is tragic, and I don't want to be cavalier about it since there are risks.  If we are lucky enough to have a second child, we will reassess our choices at that point based on their needs.

The latter was an issue in our house too when my son was a baby. I was a waitress and my now ex was a bartender, who'd go out drinking after work (one of the reasons he is now my ex, though mostly because he walked out 2 days before our wedding). But yeah sometimes I worked doubles as soon as a couple weeks after giving birth, so 10-3 or 4 and then 5-anywhere between 10 and 12 though especially at first I got first cut when it slowed down which was nice of my coworkers. My fiance would go in at 4 or 5 and not get off until 3 am then he'd, more often than not, go have a few drinks at a friend's. We had occasionally babysitting from friends but mostly from an older abuela next door to us who didn't speak English and took care of a few kids but was so good with our son and didn't charge much. 

I was so exhausted and my worthless fiance, now ex, was exhausted from worth and often drunk so there was no way cosleeping would have been good for us. 

I also bottle fed because of my Bipolar medication. I was titrated down for pregnancy but because my BP 1 with psychotic mania was very similar to postpartum psychosis they raised me back up on my meds quickly as soon as gave birth. I wasn't educated about donor milk back then and also lived in a rural town in Western Colorado so I don't even think it would have been available. WIC also covered formula. Now they cover extra protein, like eggs and veg, if you breastfeed instead of formula feed, but not when my son was born in CO. I've been shamed for that retroactively by people. But they've all been old friends who are now much more privileged with maternity leave, well off jobs, owning their own homes, etc. My son is a happy, thriving 8 almost 9 year old now. So that's what matters.

[Travelfan]

My theory is that wherever babies start out sleeping becomes their normal and preferred place. For this reason I used a crib from day one for naps and overnight. I held and rocked and cuddled and sang during awake times when they could enjoy it. When my daughter was 6 weeks old I had to have melanoma surgery (very scary with a newborn!). My mom watched her and I left specific instructions for how to lay her down.  Read 2 stories while cuddling in the glider and then lay her in the crib awake and walk away.  This is what she was already used to at 6 weeks. My mom decided she wanted to hold her as she slept and continued rocking and my daughter started crying and wouldn’t stop. She tried standing and bouncing and rocking and hushing and finally decided just to lay her down. She stopped crying and went right to sleep.  I think a lot of times babies struggle with sleeping on their own because they spend the first 1-3 months sleeping while being held so then it is a transition and change, and no one likes change.  

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

2 hours ago, Travelfan said:

My theory is that wherever babies start out sleeping becomes their normal and preferred place. For this reason I used a crib from day one for naps and overnight. I held and rocked and cuddled and sang during awake times when they could enjoy it. When my daughter was 6 weeks old I had to have melanoma surgery (very scary with a newborn!). My mom watched her and I left specific instructions for how to lay her down.  Read 2 stories while cuddling in the glider and then lay her in the crib awake and walk away.  This is what she was already used to at 6 weeks. My mom decided she wanted to hold her as she slept and continued rocking and my daughter started crying and wouldn’t stop. She tried standing and bouncing and rocking and hushing and finally decided just to lay her down. She stopped crying and went right to sleep.  I think a lot of times babies struggle with sleeping on their own because they spend the first 1-3 months sleeping while being held so then it is a transition and change, and no one likes change.  

Depends, I think. Some babies seem to form habits easily but many seem fine to adjust though it may take a few days.

[G33kywife]

23 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

I have a lot of opinions about the north American vilification of cosleeping. Pretty much all mammals, including most human cultures, do it. It's possible to do safely. I wish I knew more about it when my kid was younger but he's 8 months now and will sleep in the crib. (He napped on me for months because of reflux.)

I agree so much! And because health care providers refuse to discuss it as an option, and teach people how to do it safely, people end up doing it in safely, which results in many of the tragedies that we hear about! I can’t remember the statistics, but I recently read a study that said something like 70%+ of parents will end up cosleeping in some form. I’m pro education for safe sleep! For anyone reading along, Google the “safe sleep seven” for guidelines on safely co-sleeping. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

18 hours ago, zee_four said:

I wasn't educated about donor milk back then

That's such a shame, if you had wanted it.  I am done pumping and I don't miss it, but I donated several thousand ounces to local babies through a group called human milk 4 human babies (they have facebook pages based on state/geographic locations).  I would disclose any medications or dietary stuff and how much I had on offer and people would respond if they wanted it.  I'd get a box of empty bags in return ($10 maybe) to make up what I'd used.  I just really loved having such an abundant supply that I could help out.  We were pretty lucky.

[AprilQuilt]

19 hours ago, Travelfan said:

My theory is that wherever babies start out sleeping becomes their normal and preferred place. For this reason I used a crib from day one for naps and overnight. I held and rocked and cuddled and sang during awake times when they could enjoy it. When my daughter was 6 weeks old I had to have melanoma surgery (very scary with a newborn!). My mom watched her and I left specific instructions for how to lay her down.  Read 2 stories while cuddling in the glider and then lay her in the crib awake and walk away.  This is what she was already used to at 6 weeks. My mom decided she wanted to hold her as she slept and continued rocking and my daughter started crying and wouldn’t stop. She tried standing and bouncing and rocking and hushing and finally decided just to lay her down. She stopped crying and went right to sleep.  I think a lot of times babies struggle with sleeping on their own because they spend the first 1-3 months sleeping while being held so then it is a transition and change, and no one likes change.  

this sounds like your experience with your baby. They're all very different. I suspect if this system worked for you, it's because it suited your particular baby rather than because it was the most superior way of doing things. Mine hated being laid down because she had horrific silent reflux caused by CMPA - it was not a question of us not being firm enough in establishing a routine, being laid flat in her crib was agony for her and extremely distressing. If that was your baby you'd have found another way too.

I also disagree that babies who are held and cuddled a lot in the early days will never learn to self-settle. They have been carried inside a person for 9 months, and their cues for comfort are often heartbeat sounds, touch, smell, the warmth of another body etc etc. It shouldn't be surprising that in the 'fourth trimester' as it's called, they want to be held by their caregivers: they don't even know yet that they're separate entities! But every typical baby is wired to become independent: that's their life's work inasmuch as they are from the very beginning building core strength, fine motor skills, continence, gaining interest in eating solids, moving around by themselves etc etc etc. You are not going to set that back by letting them nap on you at 6 weeks, you are simply meeting their personal needs in that moment. By 9 months my daughter actively wanted me to leave her alone so she could fall asleep at night. Again, just her personality, not everybody has this experience, but by that age she found my presence stimulating rather than soothing and even though I'd never 'sleep trained' her she preferred to get herself to sleep.

There's such variety in what babies need and want but one thing I don't get is the pressure to make them independent and separate from you as soon as possible. They are absolutely going to figure it out, why hasten it? Everybody finds a system that works for them and their baby and those systems do not have to be identical to be successful. It's great that what you're suggesting worked for you, but if it doesn't work for someone else then that's no failure of theirs. I don't think there's a single parent among us who hasn't at some point had their expectations of how they would do a thing confounded by their child who wanted something else instead.

[Nothing if not critical]

1 hour ago, AprilQuilt said:

this sounds like your experience with your baby. They're all very different. I suspect if this system worked for you, it's because it suited your particular baby rather than because it was the most superior way of doing things. Mine hated being laid down because she had horrific silent reflux caused by CMPA - it was not a question of us not being firm enough in establishing a routine, being laid flat in her crib was agony for her and extremely distressing. If that was your baby you'd have found another way too.

I also disagree that babies who are held and cuddled a lot in the early days will never learn to self-settle. They have been carried inside a person for 9 months, and their cues for comfort are often heartbeat sounds, touch, smell, the warmth of another body etc etc. It shouldn't be surprising that in the 'fourth trimester' as it's called, they want to be held by their caregivers: they don't even know yet that they're separate entities! But every typical baby is wired to become independent: that's their life's work inasmuch as they are from the very beginning building core strength, fine motor skills, continence, gaining interest in eating solids, moving around by themselves etc etc etc. You are not going to set that back by letting them nap on you at 6 weeks, you are simply meeting their personal needs in that moment. By 9 months my daughter actively wanted me to leave her alone so she could fall asleep at night. Again, just her personality, not everybody has this experience, but by that age she found my presence stimulating rather than soothing and even though I'd never 'sleep trained' her she preferred to get herself to sleep.

There's such variety in what babies need and want but one thing I don't get is the pressure to make them independent and separate from you as soon as possible. They are absolutely going to figure it out, why hasten it? Everybody finds a system that works for them and their baby and those systems do not have to be identical to be successful. It's great that what you're suggesting worked for you, but if it doesn't work for someone else then that's no failure of theirs. I don't think there's a single parent among us who hasn't at some point had their expectations of how they would do a thing confounded by their child who wanted something else instead.

Thank you so much for this - you've put this into words so perfectly, and so diplomatically, too. Much better than I could have ever done, and yet you said everything I wanted to say and more.

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

2 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

this sounds like your experience with your baby. They're all very different. I suspect if this system worked for you, it's because it suited your particular baby rather than because it was the most superior way of doing things. Mine hated being laid down because she had horrific silent reflux caused by CMPA - it was not a question of us not being firm enough in establishing a routine, being laid flat in her crib was agony for her and extremely distressing. If that was your baby you'd have found another way too.

I also disagree that babies who are held and cuddled a lot in the early days will never learn to self-settle. They have been carried inside a person for 9 months, and their cues for comfort are often heartbeat sounds, touch, smell, the warmth of another body etc etc. It shouldn't be surprising that in the 'fourth trimester' as it's called, they want to be held by their caregivers: they don't even know yet that they're separate entities! But every typical baby is wired to become independent: that's their life's work inasmuch as they are from the very beginning building core strength, fine motor skills, continence, gaining interest in eating solids, moving around by themselves etc etc etc. You are not going to set that back by letting them nap on you at 6 weeks, you are simply meeting their personal needs in that moment. By 9 months my daughter actively wanted me to leave her alone so she could fall asleep at night. Again, just her personality, not everybody has this experience, but by that age she found my presence stimulating rather than soothing and even though I'd never 'sleep trained' her she preferred to get herself to sleep.

There's such variety in what babies need and want but one thing I don't get is the pressure to make them independent and separate from you as soon as possible. They are absolutely going to figure it out, why hasten it? Everybody finds a system that works for them and their baby and those systems do not have to be identical to be successful. It's great that what you're suggesting worked for you, but if it doesn't work for someone else then that's no failure of theirs. I don't think there's a single parent among us who hasn't at some point had their expectations of how they would do a thing confounded by their child who wanted something else instead.

My kiddo had silent reflux so I feel ya! Many naps were on me when he was 2.5-4 months. Now he naps in the crib fine. Babies change and develop so fast, they're always learning new ways to do things.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Children are all so individual, even from day one.  I will admit that sometimes I get a bit salty when I see the friend whose baby is 2 weeks younger than mine but much less fussy posting about how well her daughter did on a trip to Hawai'i this year, etc.  But I know I wouldn't prefer any other daughter to the one I have.  Everyone has challenges, and I don't exactly post about mine on social media either.

Dammit, I wanna go somewhere tropical and drink cocktails on a beach now.  Who's in?

[zee_four]

21 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

That's such a shame, if you had wanted it.  I am done pumping and I don't miss it, but I donated several thousand ounces to local babies through a group called human milk 4 human babies (they have facebook pages based on state/geographic locations).  I would disclose any medications or dietary stuff and how much I had on offer and people would respond if they wanted it.  I'd get a box of empty bags in return ($10 maybe) to make up what I'd used.  I just really loved having such an abundant supply that I could help out.  We were pretty lucky.

Its such a wonderful thing for other women to do! Mahalo!!! I love the idea of mothers helping mothers regardless of circumstance or child rearing choices/reality. I can't tell you how many times I've been shamed for bottle feeding, even though that was the best option for me. The idea that I could just go off all my anti psychotic meds with a newborn and an abusive fiance, no thanks. But yeah unfortunately I'm from a very rural mountain area. Its been growing and becoming more affluent for better or worse so I'll have to look into seeing if there is a milk bank now. I have Medicaid and no doctors mentioned it when I was pregnant. There's def a difference in the quality of providers and the treatment/services offered when you're on Medicaid and WIC. I had some great providers but in general you get offered and treated in a very different way than private insurance and more affluent doctors ESPECIALLY when it comes to prenatal, birth and perinatal care sadly.

 

6 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

Children are all so individual, even from day one.  I will admit that sometimes I get a bit salty when I see the friend whose baby is 2 weeks younger than mine but much less fussy posting about how well her daughter did on a trip to Hawai'i this year, etc.  But I know I wouldn't prefer any other daughter to the one I have.  Everyone has challenges, and I don't exactly post about mine on social media either.

Dammit, I wanna go somewhere tropical and drink cocktails on a beach now.  Who's in?

I live in Hawai'i. Party at zee's! Free Jinger does Hawai'i!!! Just pay for plane tickets which are way cheaper now than in the past and you can stay with me. There will be some couch sleeping, futon and air mattress ingredients crashing on the floor type arrangements but dude... it's Hawai'i lol!🤙🌈🌞🏝🤙🌺🏖🌴🤙

[AprilQuilt]

On 5/2/2022 at 2:36 PM, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

My kiddo had silent reflux so I feel ya! Many naps were on me when he was 2.5-4 months. Now he naps in the crib fine. Babies change and develop so fast, they're always learning new ways to do things.

totally! once I realised that was their whole job I relaxed so much. Like, OK, X situation is not ideal and not how we planned but it is a solution for now and in 6 weeks she'll change again and we'll have forgotten this was even a thing. I remember being super upset and feeling like a failure over using nipple shields?! now I see that's what it took for me to continue breast feeding *shrug* no drama. And here's a silent reflux high 5. It is so, so draining. I quit dairy and that sorted it for us but she was a very upright baby for a very long time...

On 5/2/2022 at 3:58 PM, GuineaPigCourtship said:

Children are all so individual, even from day one.  I will admit that sometimes I get a bit salty when I see the friend whose baby is 2 weeks younger than mine but much less fussy posting about how well her daughter did on a trip to Hawai'i this year, etc.  But I know I wouldn't prefer any other daughter to the one I have.  Everyone has challenges, and I don't exactly post about mine on social media either.

Dammit, I wanna go somewhere tropical and drink cocktails on a beach now.  Who's in?

ha, I did an event with a friend who has the same job as me (involves travel, events, speaking engagements etc) a few months ago and she brought her baby along. SO relaxed. He was the most chilled out little pudding, he came on the train with her, got toted about by assistants with the venue - a breeze. Mine would never have gone for this. Mine was a drama queen. I did feel a bit salty because she was never that placid, tote-able baby I'd always imagined. But she's amazing and we made it through - and now at 3 she's a really good little travel buddy for the most part and I never worry about having solo adventures with her. It does help me take all the baby advice with a healthy grain of salt though: what is no trouble for some babies at some stages is just impossible with others. And they're all lovely nonetheless.