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Jana Duggar 13: I Don't Think She Will :(


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11 hours ago, arareyeah said:

My country is pretty dang religiously conservative no matter what religion you are and if you're a woman and not married by the age of 30 you'll be considered an old maid. Less men to pick because the dating pool really is getting smaller because most men got married in their 20s too, unless you don't mind dating a divorcee or a widower or a foreigner. Divorce still have a bad stigma so a lot of unmarried women here don't want to marry a divorcee.

Once I hit 30 and still single, I see that the unmarried straight women my age are separated into 2 camps: the ones desperately want to get married and will say yes to any guy offering marriage, or the ones not actively looking for relationship because thinking at this age getting married today, next year, or in 10 years won't make a difference family planning wise, and starting to plan their retirement instead (saving for good retirement home, funeral arrangement and the likes).

Which country are you from, if I may ask?

I mean, in many countries people wanting to start a family have found a partner (not necessarily got married, but are in a long term relationship) by age 30, and finding someone does get harder the older you get (less people available, less opportunities for casually getting to know new people once you start working after finishing university etc.).  But planning for a single retirement at 30 seems REALLY harsh!

I only got married and had a baby in my mid to late thirties (been with my husband since our mid-twenties, but we wanted to wait having a baby until later). In my circles, it’s pretty normal to only have your first child between 30 and 35.

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I think it’s extremely hard to make a valid assumption about the inner workings of the Duggars. There are so many layers. The narrative of the show, the brainwashing by their cult and it’s acceptable opinions, they never showed much more than the acceptable narratives and even now we rarely see what they think. And if they show something it’s hard to know if they show it because they think that’s what they should show or because they are fully behind it. I mean, realising that you maybe don’t love having children would definitely send you down some downward spirals in that cult for sure. I don’t think I would be brave enough to look at that thought again or even voice it. Not with that believe set in the background.

Jana has made some comments in the past that she does desire a partner in life but hasn’t found the right one yet, gave a rough description (or was it the siblings?) what she is looking for. So, for me it seems she very much would like to enter a relationship. Her comments might have been what she thought she should say or she has changed her mind since then or she actually wants a husband and prays for it. Same with children. Maybe she feels done, maybe she is patient and believes in God’s timing or maybe she is yearning for some of her own (and by the looks of it, no one is modelling their life after the pregnancy marathon of M atm, maybe Kendra but she is the only one. Marrying could very easily mean just 1 or 2 or non). Who knows.
 

Maybe she isn’t looking. Maybe she is picky. Maybe she is a nut job and guys drop her. Just because she is not publicly praying for a husband doesn’t mean anything. Most sane people don’t. I find those ideas of her purposefully not marrying and avoiding kids a bit utopian. Very much like the idea of Jinger the Rebel. We all know how that turned out.

I hope Jana gets to follow her idea of what future she desires. Not ours, not her parents and not some indoctrination.

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1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

 

I hope Jana gets to follow her idea of what future she desires. Not ours, not her parents and not some indoctrination.

As Eliza Doolittle ( in “My Fair Lady”) said, “Wouldn’t that be loverly, loverly…”

 

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4 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

Which country are you from, if I may ask?

I mean, in many countries people wanting to start a family have found a partner (not necessarily got married, but are in a long term relationship) by age 30, and finding someone does get harder the older you get (less people available, less opportunities for casually getting to know new people once you start working after finishing university etc.).  But planning for a single retirement at 30 seems REALLY harsh!

I only got married and had a baby in my mid to late thirties (been with my husband since our mid-twenties, but we wanted to wait having a baby until later). In my circles, it’s pretty normal to only have your first child between 30 and 35.

Indonesia. Highly conservative country, and I've seen a raise in Islamic fundies in recent years (very similar, just different flavor, minus the quiverfull and homeschooling). Having a child out of wedlock is still out of the question no matter how liberal you are, or if you're an atheist or agnostic due to legal mumbo jumbo. Most of my friends got married and have kids in their 20s. If you're a single woman having an education beyond bachelor's degree and have a good career, most men will balk. I have a master's degree and my fiance has a bachelor's degree. While I don't mind, his parents actually asked me if it's going to be a problem for me and my parents upon our first meeting.

Most of my single friends my age have at least master's degree from reputable unis (some even got their master's degree abroad with full scholarship) and really good career. Living in highly patriarchal society like this, we've heard things like women shouldn't pursue higher education beyond bachelor's degree because men will not want us. Sadly it's true, to a degree. We're lucky our parents pushed us to be the best and marriage is not end all be all, but many aren't as lucky.

While already planning for our retirement in our 30s sounds harsh, but the truth is that's what we're expecting. Don't want to burden our nieces/nephews with future care and possible old age ailment, plus if your family don't pay for your burial plot every year, they'll dig you up and use your burial plot for someone else unless you have a family owned cemetery. All those things cost money and we'd rather plan accordingly. Sounds morbid, I know.

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1 hour ago, arareyeah said:

Indonesia. Highly conservative country, and I've seen a raise in Islamic fundies in recent years (very similar, just different flavor, minus the quiverfull and homeschooling). Having a child out of wedlock is still out of the question no matter how liberal you are, or if you're an atheist or agnostic due to legal mumbo jumbo. Most of my friends got married and have kids in their 20s. If you're a single woman having an education beyond bachelor's degree and have a good career, most men will balk. I have a master's degree and my fiance has a bachelor's degree. While I don't mind, his parents actually asked me if it's going to be a problem for me and my parents upon our first meeting.

Most of my single friends my age have at least master's degree from reputable unis (some even got their master's degree abroad with full scholarship) and really good career. Living in highly patriarchal society like this, we've heard things like women shouldn't pursue higher education beyond bachelor's degree because men will not want us. Sadly it's true, to a degree. We're lucky our parents pushed us to be the best and marriage is not end all be all, but many aren't as lucky.

While already planning for our retirement in our 30s sounds harsh, but the truth is that's what we're expecting. Don't want to burden our nieces/nephews with future care and possible old age ailment, plus if your family don't pay for your burial plot every year, they'll dig you up and use your burial plot for someone else unless you have a family owned cemetery. All those things cost money and we'd rather plan accordingly. Sounds morbid, I know.

I find it so interesting to read about the difference between countries when it comes to marriage age and children. I guess because this topic is so relevant to me right now. I am from Austria and about to turn 30 and of the about 30 girls around my age that I am (somewhat) friends with, only one is married and has children. Two more have children (one in a long term partnership, one in a not so great situation). I personally have had a strong desire to get married and have children for a while now, but unfortunately it hasn't worked out so far. I never really used to stress too much about it, thinking I still had plenty of time, but now as I will be 30, childless and unmarried soon, I am starting to fear, that I might never be a mother.  Knowing how hard it is for me to long for marriage and a child and not have it, even without any pressure (I don't feel any pressure in that direction from my family, friends or society at large), in her situation it must be super tough, if that is what she wants. If not, it must still be tough with all the pressure in a direction she does not want to pursue. Either way, I feel for Jana. 

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If (and it’s a big if) Jana didn’t embrace the idea of marriage and a full quiver, isn’t that a rejection of the Gothardism  and so far she’s shown no signs of such a rejection. It’s one thing to get married and then decide for whatever reasons to limit your family size, but quite another to say I want a husband who agrees to use birth control. Jana isn’t going to find many men like that in the circles she and her family mix in- it’s all leaving it up to God and providing an army for Jesus.

 

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I also find the topic of marriage age and age of having kids interesting because where I’m from, most of my friend group was married before 25 to either a college or high school sweetheart. I’ve gone to at least one wedding every year since 2016 and next year we have two more to attend (we’re crossing our fingers that next year is the last year!). Some people are now starting to have kids at 25-27, and we’ve had about six or seven people who have had kids or who are currently pregnant in the last year. It’s been funny because the older people in our lives are saying that we have plenty of time to have kids while our peers are saying to have them now while we’re young. It’s been an unexpected dynamic as more of our friends start to try to have kids while we are focused on travel and renovating our house. 

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I was one of the first of my friend group to get married and I was 26. Most of my friends married in their 30s. I was also one of the first to have kids and I was 28 when I had my oldest. My friends all focused on education and careers before having kids, I knew I would be a SAHM, so I didn't really focus on my career and doggies I'd worry about that after a 12 year gap. 

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Sometimes I envy ladies in Europe or the US. It seems like not being married yet in your 30s is not a big deal. Deciding not to have a kid is not a taboo. Even my married friends who decided to put having babies on hold will hear things like "oh you really shouldn't, otherwise you won't get one  by the time you want one" and lectures about biological clock from strangers. Or if there's problem in conceiving, the women will be blamed for it. 

I can imagine the pressures Jana or Michaela Bates are receiving. We're in similar boat, albeit theirs are from their own family and fundie circle, while we're from society as a whole.

But at the same time, the longer Jana stays unmarried, means there will be less future kids she could dunk in the Kool-Aid.

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4 hours ago, Idlewild said:

If (and it’s a big if) Jana didn’t embrace the idea of marriage and a full quiver, isn’t that a rejection of the Gothardism  and so far she’s shown no signs of such a rejection. It’s one thing to get married and then decide for whatever reasons to limit your family size, but quite another to say I want a husband who agrees to use birth control. Jana isn’t going to find many men like that in the circles she and her family mix in- it’s all leaving it up to God and providing an army for Jesus.

 

Oh I don’t think she’d rock the boat enough to suggest actually limiting family size. That’s a thought she’d probably push away rather than voice. But being “picky” about who she courts (smart move, if you’re going to be stuck with them for life) and then once in a courtship, taking her time to get married, is probably the only socially acceptable way she can stay Gothardite and have a small quiver. Michelle started actively trying, weaning at 6mths & tracking cycles etc, whereas if Jana doesn’t marry until she’s 32 or 33, then breastfeeds until her kids are toddlers, she could keep it at a more manageable number while continuing to guzzle kool-aid.

 

I’m in Australia and I can see a clear difference between my church/evangelical friends and my other friends in terms of typical marriage age. I married at 21, had my first kid at 23, and while that was “early” for both groups, the Christians weren’t far behind. Most married before 25 and had kids in their mid-late 20s. My non-Christian friends all seem to be announcing their first pregnancies now, in their mid-30s. Some of them married recently, others are just going the de facto route. They all lived together before marriage. It’s an odd feeling sometimes, to be getting divorced and with my youngest about to start school, while friends who are older than me are getting engaged.

We’re pretty much all encouraged to have an education though, at least in my circles, and most mums work part time if not full time. Housing here is EXPENSIVE and paying off a mortgage on one income is extremely difficult unless your husband is rich.

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25 minutes ago, arareyeah said:

Sometimes I envy ladies in Europe or the US. It seems like not being married yet in your 30s is not a big deal. Deciding not to have a kid is not a taboo. Even my married friends who decided to put having babies on hold will hear things like "oh you really shouldn't, otherwise you won't get one  by the time you want one" and lectures about biological clock from strangers. Or if there's problem in conceiving, the women will be blamed for it. 

I can imagine the pressures Jana or Michaela Bates are receiving. We're in similar boat, albeit theirs are from their own family and fundie circle, while we're from society as a whole.

But at the same time, the longer Jana stays unmarried, means there will be less future kids she could dunk in the Kool-Aid.

Oh the US is extremely varied when it comes to marriage expectation and age. Being an unmarried 30 something in NYC is no big deal. Unmarried 30 something in small town Midwest? You’ll hear about it. Everyone will be asking you when you are getting married all through your 20s and then completely give up on asking when you are in your 30s. They will just figure you’ll be alone forever if you have not been married or had kids and you are in your 30s. 

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6 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:
34 minutes ago, arareyeah said:

 

Oh the US is extremely varied when it comes to marriage expectation and age. Being an unmarried 30 something in NYC is no big deal. Unmarried 30 something in small town Midwest? You’ll hear about it.

It’s similar here. It depends a lot on your social circles. As I said, out of my female friends/colleagues/acquaintances, I think I hardly know anyone who had a child before 30 (big city, academic background, highly educated with a career) - but most did have children eventually, most between 30 and 35, some even later.

But that would be vastly different in a different setting, e.g. rural small town, many people finishing school at 16 and learning a trade - at 25, they will already have several years of work experience under their belt, will often marry someone from the same area with a similar background, and real estate is cheaper than in a big city, so it will feel more natural (and financially feasible) to purchase a family home and start having kids at 25 rather than 35.

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I am mid 20s. People I went to school/university with are just starting to do things like get engaged/married and have kids. It’ll start happening more and more in the next few years. I have never had any kind of relationship ever, no kissing no dating no nothing. (Thanks, hideous anxiety!)

I know it sounds ridiculous but I do feel like I’m just falling behind other people and that I’ll never catch up. I know there are people who don’t get married/have kids until their 30s and 40s, but those people have already had a few relationships before that point. I’ve read a few stories by people who were in a similar situation to me, and they all say how the longer their situation goes on for, the harder it gets. It is somewhat embarrassing to admit I’ve never even kissed a guy at my age, which is something most people manage in their early teens. Sure, there are people we discuss on here who’ve never kissed anyone or had sex, but they’ve been brought up in strict religious families where that kind of thing is severely frowned upon! 

I know there will be people saying “oh, relationships/marriage/having kids isn’t all it’s cracked up to be”, which is a rather annoying statement if I’m honest. I understand that’s the case, but I’d like at least some experience of relationships etc before making that decision. I know there are plenty of women who are happy to be permanently single, and I may well end up being one of them myself, but I do not feel I can make that decision for myself unless and until I’ve had a few relationships.

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I’m in CA  (liberal SF Bay Area) and have 14 nieces and nephews plus 2 grown kids, all between the ages of 21 and 39. All the over 30s, with the exception of my son, are married, and all except 1 of those married couples have kids. None of the under 30s (6 in total, 5 boys and 1 girl) are married. 3 of the under 30s are living with a partner. I would not be surprised if my son (31) gets engaged in the next year when he graduates from grad school. In this area, I think my family is a bit unusual with everyone marrying in their late 20s. 

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6 hours ago, Chocolatecheesecake said:

I find it so interesting to read about the difference between countries when it comes to marriage age and children. I guess because this topic is so relevant to me right now. I am from Austria and about to turn 30 and of the about 30 girls around my age that I am (somewhat) friends with, only one is married and has children. Two more have children (one in a long term partnership, one in a not so great situation). I personally have had a strong desire to get married and have children for a while now, but unfortunately it hasn't worked out so far. I never really used to stress too much about it, thinking I still had plenty of time, but now as I will be 30, childless and unmarried soon, I am starting to fear, that I might never be a mother.  Knowing how hard it is for me to long for marriage and a child and not have it, even without any pressure (I don't feel any pressure in that direction from my family, friends or society at large), in her situation it must be super tough, if that is what she wants. If not, it must still be tough with all the pressure in a direction she does not want to pursue. Either way, I feel for Jana. 

Agreed.  I feel the same way.  I live in a small town in Tennessee and I feel no pressure from my family or friends to get married or have children, more from my friends than anything.  It used to not bother me in my 20's but now at 32 I've just gotten lonely.  I'd like to have someone to share my life with and have kids and to yearn for that and not have it sucks.  

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3 minutes ago, GreenBeans said:

It depends a lot on your social circles. As I said, out of my female friends/colleagues/acquaintances, I think I hardly know anyone who had a child before 30 (big city, academic background, highly educated with a career) - but most did have children eventually, most between 30 and 35, some even later.

Same. Most of my friends spent their 20's focused on education and/or career and only started to have children in their 30's. Most of the women  eventually had one or two children. Now I'm seeing some divorces (now we're in our 50's) and some of the men are now on their second family (far fewer of my female friends have gone on to have a second family with the second spouse - but then most of these women were divorced when they were at the upper age limit of fertility, so age might account for that). 

One story: a friend of mine is a developmental pediatrician. She had her first (and only)child at 34 and she told me that it always struck her that  for many of the families she saw, it was the grandmother who was in her mid 30's. 

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On 10/7/2021 at 9:48 AM, justoneoftwo said:

Possible she doesn't feel she can say I don't want to be married. Even secular girls sometimes have a hard time saying that. The ability to imagine there's a different life that is just as good as hard

Me. I would never ever ever tell my elders that I don't want to be married and that I'm not actively looking. It's just not something I would say. I have guys around but they never know about them either. It's a need to know and my mother doesn't need to know she's not getting grandkids either. She'd go crazy with this info. So I'm just bidding my time.

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40 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Oh the US is extremely varied when it comes to marriage expectation and age. Being an unmarried 30 something in NYC is no big deal. Unmarried 30 something in small town Midwest? You’ll hear about it. Everyone will be asking you when you are getting married all through your 20s and then completely give up on asking when you are in your 30s. They will just figure you’ll be alone forever if you have not been married or had kids and you are in your 30s. 

Even in the same town it can vary hugely depending on your social group. My kids are all in their thirties. One of my daughters married very young, had her babies very young. She’s now divorced,  but in her social circle of girls she grew up with - about half of her friends have children, mostly when they were 18-25, but she’s the ONLY one who has been married- children or not. Another daughter went to college, married, had her child in her early thirties - most of her friends followed the same path- bath were in their mid-late thirties. 

 

14 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I’m in CA  (liberal SF Bay Area) and have 14 nieces and nephews plus 2 grown kids, all between the ages of 21 and 39. All the over 30s, with the exception of my son, are married, and all except 1 of those married couples have kids. None of the under 30s (6 in total, 5 boys and 1 girl) are married. 3 of the under 30s are living with a partner. I would not be surprised if my son (31) gets engaged in the next year when he graduates from grad school. In this area, I think my family is a bit unusual with everyone marrying in their late 20s. 

I think it’s because it’s SO expensive here. I know a few people in my kids/ family/friends who married in their twenties — but they do cheap weddings. Having babies doesn’t seem to be tied to marriage particularly for most of them. Although, interestingly, the older 30’s tend to get married and then have a kid or two. Or get married and add a kid or two to the ones they already have. 

 I read an interesting article about whether women consider marriage a stepping stone or a capstone.

Women who consider it a stepping stone go in an order - college, career, wedding, children. 

Women who consider it a capstone will do a big celebration by getting married when it fits in with the rest of their life. 

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Did we entertain the idea that Jana is actually just a chaperone for some younger Duggarling who wants to marry in order to get a life? 

Surely there are matches to be made? 

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45 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

I am mid 20s. People I went to school/university with are just starting to do things like get engaged/married and have kids. It’ll start happening more and more in the next few years. I have never had any kind of relationship ever, no kissing no dating no nothing. (Thanks, hideous anxiety!)

I know it sounds ridiculous but I do feel like I’m just falling behind other people and that I’ll never catch up. I know there are people who don’t get married/have kids until their 30s and 40s, but those people have already had a few relationships before that point. I’ve read a few stories by people who were in a similar situation to me, and they all say how the longer their situation goes on for, the harder it gets. It is somewhat embarrassing to admit I’ve never even kissed a guy at my age, which is something most people manage in their early teens. Sure, there are people we discuss on here who’ve never kissed anyone or had sex, but they’ve been brought up in strict religious families where that kind of thing is severely frowned upon! 

I know there will be people saying “oh, relationships/marriage/having kids isn’t all it’s cracked up to be”, which is a rather annoying statement if I’m honest. I understand that’s the case, but I’d like at least some experience of relationships etc before making that decision. I know there are plenty of women who are happy to be permanently single, and I may well end up being one of them myself, but I do not feel I can make that decision for myself unless and until I’ve had a few relationships.

My experience was very similar to yours-- didn't date or kiss until I was 25, and it had nothing to do with religion. It is harder to go through some of those milestones at a later age (especially first breakup/rejection) but it is not impossible to catch up by any means. Your lack of experience can actually be useful in weeding out some of the creeps: any potential partner who won't even consider you because you've never dated or kissed (or conversely, who's a little too into the fact that you haven't) you can drop immediately and move on. A good partner will be patient and understanding about that.

I have anxiety too, so I get it, but dating apps (used safely) really can be a great tool for getting out and practicing meeting and connecting with new people. Even if it doesn't lead to a relationship, it can still boost your confidence around the whole dating scene.

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I've been a reader here for a while, but this is my first post. Part of me agrees with the comments that Jana was possibly acting as a chaperone (as was Stephen). I noticed since September Jeremiah's plane, N1797X, frequented the towns that the Wissmann family were performing. September also being the month Jana began to travel and post more frequently on Instagram.

The plane was flown from Springdale, AR to Seward, NE last Thursday and returned yesterday to Springdale. Jana posted she was with her sisters and Laura during that time in Arkansas.

If Jeremiah has proposed to Hannah Wissmann maybe there is no longer a need for Jana to chaperone and the Wissmann family chaperones on their own now? Of course, another Duggar family member might be going with Jeremiah too.

A small part of me wonders if there might have been a potential courtship with Jana and Stephen, but that didn't work out. Stephen's sister stopped following Jana on Instagram and Laura stopped following Stephen around the same time. 

I guess time will tell with Jeremiah and Hannah.

 

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Im living in belgium, i havent been to a wedfing in over 13 years. I only have 1 married couple in my circle of friends. Most have kids and steph kids and had multiple relations with different partners ( regular or same gender ,whatever) i have two single never married friends who have kids via the sperm bank. Its like everything goes here, but being married is becoming the rapidly least popular option 

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I grew up in New England, but live in Arizona now. I got married at 22. The earliest of my friend group by A LOT. It wasn't religion (I'm an atheist). It wasn't family pressure (they didn't care one way or the other, a wedding is just a chance to have a big party). We just had been together since we were 17, and moved in together at 20. So we got married. And I got pregnant a little more than two years later, and had my first right before I turned 25. Had baby #3 three weeks before I turned 29. All of my friends were getting engaged and married around 29, and I had three kids. Oh, and my husband and I are still happy together, and now are kids are 18, 17 and 14, and we're counting the days to our hopefully empty nest.

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I am 28 and living in the urban Midwest. Husband and I were college sweethearts and some of the earliest of our friends to get married, at age 25/26. Now my parents are asking about children but I don't feel hardly ready! Half of our friends are married, many are in good partnerships if dating, but there are still several friends who either want to settle down but haven't found the right person, or are actively against being in a serious relationship at this time. We are for the most part pursuing advanced degrees or jobs with multiple steps so we're in the marriage/career step. I finally know someone in my circle having a first child, but the mom-to-be is 31. I feel like within my peers, I have 3-4 before having kids is "normal" (which is the timeline I want), but to my parents in the rural midwest, what more could we be waiting for? Late 20s and married for 3 years it's time baby. (It is not time for us!!!) Additionally, I've known since I was very small that I want to be a mother to at least two children, but with Covid and everything else, I want kids less now than I ever have before. I am an only child because my parents had secondary infertility when my mom was in her 30s. I've had my AMH and other hormone levels tested and everything came back normal so I DO hope I can give myself a few more years for emotional and financial security before successfully having children, but I know it's never a guarantee.

Oh! And I highly recommend moissanite rings. I have one and just adore it! The jeweler showed me both diamond and moissanite (per my request) without telling me which one was which and I preferred the moissanite every time. Sparkly, more affordable, and fewer ethical considerations! And no one who cares about "real diamonds" has been able to tell a difference when they look at it!

 

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6 hours ago, VintageLibrarian said:

I've been a reader here for a while, but this is my first post. Part of me agrees with the comments that Jana was possibly acting as a chaperone (as was Stephen). I noticed since September Jeremiah's plane, N1797X, frequented the towns that the Wissmann family were performing. September also being the month Jana began to travel and post more frequently on Instagram.

The plane was flown from Springdale, AR to Seward, NE last Thursday and returned yesterday to Springdale. Jana posted she was with her sisters and Laura during that time in Arkansas.

If Jeremiah has proposed to Hannah Wissmann maybe there is no longer a need for Jana to chaperone and the Wissmann family chaperones on their own now? Of course, another Duggar family member might be going with Jeremiah too.

A small part of me wonders if there might have been a potential courtship with Jana and Stephen, but that didn't work out. Stephen's sister stopped following Jana on Instagram and Laura stopped following Stephen around the same time. 

I guess time will tell with Jeremiah and Hannah.

 

Agree with your reasoning. And it does seem like a long time for Jana and Stephen to have been thrown together, and seen close together in photos, without a courtship. But it must not have worked out, especially for Jessa to have posted the Jana’s-left-hand picture. He seems like a gregarious person, and Jana seems such a somber personality. Maybe they both were hopeful, but it just wasn’t going to work. Makes me sad for her - from the outside it looks like it would have been a happy life for her - country living, with farming and music (“happy” inside the fundie parameters, of course). 

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