Maxwell 50: Maxhell Has Frozen Over. Anna and Mary Are Off to College and Sarah Moves Out!

[GreenBeans]

12 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

The problem with creating an internet brand is that you are trapped when something happens to you that is off-brand. (See Also: Dooce)

It's especially interesting that Anna and Mary apparently started college last year, or even earlier* but I assume,  the campus going online-classes-only on account of the pandemic, they were able to hide it for a long time. We may only get a glimpse of their anything-but-random life when Anna and Mary come back to the Fathership for a visit.

Given the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth that  ensued when Nathan moved out of his bunk bed and across the street,  when Anna and Mary left, Teri and Sarah may have taken to bed, smelling salts in hand and that's why there are no blog updates.

 

*this was mentioned in the previous thread, something about them taking classes online and even making the dean's list.

Yes, they did, twice. For the first time (as far as I could see) in December 2020 (public post linked below - they are not pictured, but mentioned in the post as online students making the list).

https://m.facebook.com/appalachianbible/photos/a.10150117509160361/10164698065750361/?type=3&source=54

[Mrs Ms]

7 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Now when we say ABC girls, it could mean Abby, Betsy, and Christina or it could mean Anna and Mary attending ABC. 
 

It is already confusing enough with 3 Anna Maxwells in the family. 

Clearly the college is ABC Marie!

 

[Ozlsn]

Wow, came flying over from the Rod thread, thanks for the tip off @nelliebelle1197!  Certainly didn't see that coming, and hope both of them end up qualified in something (and with much wider horizons!) 

Also hoping Sarah does a road trip for her 40th, and visits her siblings - and maybe sets off for horizons of her own.

[HermioneSparrow]

6 hours ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

It would be ironic if they are getting an education degree to teach in a public, or even private, school after the Maxwell's have touted homeschool as the end all and be all.  

I would like to know the timeline for some of these weird events... girls started college (Fall 2019?), Jesse starts paying *gasp* rent and sells his paid for house, Joe moves out of the compound and possibly has a *double gasp* mortgage, Sarah gets a car, the clan starts attending a real church where the average age of the members is below 80 and Steve is not the minister, PANTS are worn by females in the extended family (and maybe immediate family), etc. Lots of things that all seem to have happened in a relatively short timeline.  How does this timeline compare to the timing of Steve's illness?  Is there a connection?  And is this all connected to Teri appearing more relaxed looking lately in many blog post pictures? 

Steve must be losing his grip, that's the only explanation. Why? Who knows if it is about his age, illness or whatever but I'm happy for Anna and Mary!

[theologygeek]

6 hours ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I would like to know the timeline for some of these weird events... girls started college (Fall 2019?), Jesse starts paying *gasp* rent and sells his paid for house, Joe moves out of the compound and possibly has a *double gasp* mortgage, Sarah gets a car, the clan starts attending a real church where the average age of the members is below 80 and Steve is not the minister, PANTS are worn by females in the extended family (and maybe immediate family), etc. Lots of things that all seem to have happened in a relatively short timeline.  How does this timeline compare to the timing of Steve's illness?  Is there a connection?  And is this all connected to Teri appearing more relaxed looking lately in many blog post pictures? 

Things started going downhill when John married Chelsy.  LOL  She got the girls wearing makeup and it was downhill from there. Today lip gloss, tomorrow wearing shorts in a coed gym at live away college.  LOL  

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think Chelsy also introduced them to the Bible bee and family camp. Remember when Jesse and the girls accompanied John to the Bontrager family camp? I’m sure they had plenty of fun. And now they go to the Bible bee each year. That’s also fun. All this fun really corrupted the Maxwells. 

[Loveday]

Still back on page 4 of this most shocking of Maxwell threads, but I just have to add the sound of my dropped jaw to that of everyone else's before I go any further. I know in the previous thread we discussed the rumour, so I was somewhat prepared for it to be true, but that the sisters have not only left home but LEFT THE STATE, is...well, it's going to take some getting used to! 😲

The husband of a friend of mine went to ABC some 40 years ago. I visited them once; they lived in a trailer, I think just off campus. I don't remember much about it except that it was a beautiful campus and everyone seemed very friendly and outgoing. Lots going on all the time, and not all of it steeped in the Bible. Almost what some might call a normal college campus, albeit a very small one. I think Anna and Mary will thrive there, I wish them all the best!

And I hope the very fact they're there keeps Stevehovah up at night, lying wakeful and wide-eyed in the dark imagining his two youngest daughters in a den of iniquity and knowing he can do nothing about it. Not that ABC is a den of iniquity, but it IS outside the Maxwell compound, so it's bound to be in Steve's mind!🙄

[fundiefan]

1 minute ago, Loveday said:

Still back on page 4 of this most shocking of Maxwell threads, but I just have to add the sound of my dropped jaw to that of everyone else's before I go any further. I know in the previous thread we discussed the rumour, so I was somewhat prepared for it to be true, but that the sisters have not only left home but LEFT THE STATE, is...well, it's going to take some getting used to! 😲

The husband of a friend of mine went to ABC some 40 years ago. I visited them once; they lived in a trailer, I think just off campus. I don't remember much about it except that it was a beautiful campus and everyone seemed very friendly and outgoing. Lots going on all the time, and not all of it steeped in the Bible. Almost what some might call a normal college campus, albeit a very small one. I think Anna and Mary will thrive there, I wish them all the best!

And I hope the very fact they're there keeps Stevehovah up at night, lying wakeful and wide-eyed in the dark imagining his two youngest daughters in a den of iniquity and knowing he can do nothing about it. Not that ABC is a den of iniquity, but it IS outside the Maxwell compound, so it's bound to be in Steve's mind!🙄

And that's the thing - to the world as a whole. ABC is anything but a den of iniquity. But to Steve, there are so many ways to lose your soul there - education, people outside your family, teaching from people not mom, interaction with people everywhere, "the girls" ability (whether they take advantage of it or not) to choose NOT to do bible time at 5am and 7pm every single day, answering to someone other than Steve or their brothers - lots of someone's with all the teachers & administrators, etc. of a school - being allowed to watch the beast, wear shorts/pants, do things for fun, decorate their dorms for Christmas, leave campus unchaperoned, choose their own schedule & set their own priorities...the list really is endless.

Even if the restrictions at home have eased up over time, they were still there; Steve has still always been in control and the one determining said restrictions - or not. To go from Steve allowing - or not allowing - something to being able to choose for themselves, that's big. The school does have guidelines and restrictions, but there is still a...well...a den of iniquity for Anna & Mary to navigate every day & decisions they have to make on their very own. 

 

[Petronella]

(Forgive me for any ignorance; I used to follow the Maxwells closely but haven't for years. My up-to-date knowledge is just what's in this thread.)

I wonder if Steve is just tired and this is now the more comfortable way for him. I remember a relative of mine who used to be a controlling crab about some things we wanted to do while we were visiting her. I was astonished years later when she started doing those things herself. She seemed surprised by my astonishment, which again astonished me. How can someone be so vocally against something and then just blithely do it themselves like it's no big deal?

And this is what we've seen from Erika Shupe, Beall Phillips, etc. They make these HUGE changes to go directly against what they've preached to be literal sin issues, and no explanation at all, not even a simple acknowledgement that they've changed their minds. If anything, they just chatter about why what they're doing now is sensible (which it is!) and dodge any question of why it wasn't sensible for all the people they previously criticized for doing it or steered away from doing it. It's hypocritical crap is what it is. And a refusal to take responsibility for the power they wielded over their older children and the influence they exerted over followers.

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Petronella

[quiversR4hunting]

On 9/5/2021 at 10:17 PM, nelliebelle1197 said:

People, there are SPORTS teams there. 

<faints> Seriously, glad to see there is an "Appalachian Outdoors" group and the ABC Traditions with coffee (don't they love their coffee or mixing them up with another older fundie maiden)

On 9/6/2021 at 9:09 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

My guess is early childhood education degrees for both. 

I hope so, it would be something they could actually use to make money. I see the bible certificate allows you to go right into a AA or BA. I hope they go for their BA. Longer they are out of Kansas, the better. I bet they are living together in the same room. I saw each of the dorms for girls had only 2 people in each room. I was surprised to find a building with boys on every other floor. 

23 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

If the aim is to find husbands there would be much better choices out there. This college is tiny, only 250 students, so probably only a little more than 100 potential suitors, and almost none in their age range since Mary is 25 and Anna 28. 

At least go somewhere with a decent number of graduate students (according to Wiki the school has some), but the numbers must be really small and I bet any older male student is married anyway.

So my theory is Steve is still in the A Godly Husband Is Going to Fall from the Sky mode, and the reasons they are attending are purely educational - probably due to the practicum requirements of an elementary education program. They picked the school because it was online, cheap and sufficiently fundie, and now they are attending for no more than a year or so. 

ETA: Actually I'm probably wrong. According to their website, only bible studies are available online. So that's probably what they're studying. Which is... fine I guess but I'm struggling to see why Steve would agree to the cost and time away when there would be closer options. 

To my bolding. I was thinking staff members or staff member's family members might be how the girls find a husband. I found it interesting that BW3 is just across the free way from the school - will they know what to do with many chicken wings? 

Per google maps there are 4 churches North of campus- they get to pray on their way to and from since they will pass a gentleman's club on the way. 

Here are the churches I really hope Anna & Mary attend -

https://www.soulseekerministries.org/ 

https://stfrancis-wv.org/

https://ststephensbeckley.org/

However- they will probably pick one of the Baptist flavors. Something like this: http://wvfbc.org/ might be good and it appears it has co-ed studies and that would be a good way for Anna & Mary to meet other mid-20something singles. There is a "Bad Theology" co-ed class. Rufus bless it on their heart to attend that class, it could be beneficial in several ways

[ClareDeLune]

It's a very small college but if they make solid friendships from being around a small group of friends then it increases their chances of meeting friends or siblings of college friends.  

It must be blowing their minds to have so little housework to do.  All meals catered, only their own room to keep clean. They will already have good study habits so the amount of free time will be amazing, even if they have church activities to keep them busy.

[Captain Obvious]

37 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Here are the churches I really hope Anna & Mary attend -

https://www.soulseekerministries.org/ 

https://stfrancis-wv.org/

https://ststephensbeckley.org/

However- they will probably pick one of the Baptist flavors. Something like this: http://wvfbc.org/ might be good and it appears it has co-ed studies and that would be a good way for Anna & Mary to meet other mid-20something singles. There is a "Bad Theology" co-ed class. Rufus bless it on their heart to attend that class, it could be beneficial in several ways

No way will they attend a non-Baptist church. They probably see those other churches as not even Christian - well I'm sure Steve does. Plus the school has to approve the church that they attend, which would rule out anything even remotely liberal. 

Faith Baptist is a more likely possibility, and that's even when it's posting lovely stuff like this on its FB page:

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Captain Obvious

[quiversR4hunting]

Just now, Captain Obvious said:

No way will they attend a non-Baptist church. They probably see those other churches as not even Christian - well I'm sure Steve does.

Faith Baptist is a more likely possibility, and that's even when it's posting lovely stuff like this on its FB page:

 

I agree, they won't go to anything "worldly" like Catholic, Episcopalian, Methodist or Presbyterian. It would be fun to see them truely learn about the theology of these 4 denominations. 

The "why we cannot coexist" picture states they were wrapping up a true or false series. I wonder what they said in regards to coexisting and the true/false statements. Here is a person in 2016 with the same logo on his page: https://jamedders.com/why-we-cannot-coexist/ he doesn't go in depth why we can't coexist. Here is another take on it: https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/why-cant-we-all-just-coexist-0404124 another https://www.ucg.org/beyond-today/blogs/why-cant-we-coexist seems like several made a post about back in 2016. Faith Baptist is a few years late (the post is from 2019). 

[HereticHick]

18 hours ago, sableduck said:

I should rephrase—the people I knew who went were not fundamentalist or IFB.  Most of my IFB family that went to college went to Hyles-Anderson or PCC(none made it through a second semester). 

As a native of a small Appalachian town, I want to chime in on this--just because a college  is very fundamentalist, it doesn't mean that all the students are true believers.  I know plenty of people who went off to schools like Appalachian  Bible, or just Baptist schools like Carson-Newman (Gil and Kelly Bates' alma mater), but many of them weren't hardcore fundy in their hearts. They were going to those schools because they've been raised in this tradition and that is where their family wanted them to go. 

For every couple of true believer aspiring missionary maidens wearing a modesty tee under her shirt, there's probably another student who sneaks off for beer and making out in the woods.

[SassyPants]

Maybe Grandma weighed in…she allowed Teri to go to college, meet and marry the wonderful Steve!

[fundiefan]

Maybe one of the girls could find a husband in school. I mean, they are older than traditional college age - so there could be others. Some men even. Maybe. I just don't want to assume they are the only older students; if they're there, it's obviously not an unheard of thing. 

There is married student housing, so I assume age isn't a prerequisite. Not saying they'll hook up with a married person, I just mean it's more indication that this not strictly a "right out of high school" college experience. Maybe the majority is, but there is plenty to indicate there are other older students present and Anna & Mary aren't pioneers in going to school in their mid-late 20's. 

They're Maxwell pioneers for sure. But, college attending in your 20's pioneers - not likely. 

[theologygeek]

2 hours ago, Loveday said:

And I hope the very fact they're there keeps Stevehovah up at night, lying wakeful and wide-eyed in the dark imagining his two youngest daughters in a den of iniquity and knowing he can do nothing about it. Not that ABC is a den of iniquity, but it IS outside the Maxwell compound, so it's bound to be in Steve's mind!🙄

Hey Steve, the girls snuck to the other side of town last night and were in Jake the Catholic's basement playing beer pong.  Mary won.  

[Austrian Atheist]

I think I’m going through the stages of grief: After I digested my initial shock, I feel angry. I’m not angry with Anna and Mary - of course not! - but with the Maxwallian “system”. They have spent years and years and years promoting their lifestyle and telling everybody how to live. Conferences, tours, books, newsletters, blogs, county fairs, videos, demonstrations, proselytizing and so on. I’m not angry with them because they have changed some of their stances BUT I’m angry with them for omitting the truth and not addressing the reasons. Yes they are past their prime but they still have followers and people who bought their books. They let them hang in the air without giving any explanations. They could reach out and write something like: “Things hadn’t worked out for our family like we planned. We prayed about it and read bible verse whatever number and god told us it’s okay to make new decisions for a changing situation blah blah…”. But not even the slightest word. They just turn their backs on the people who bought into their views and lifestyle. People who were taught by them that this is the only right way to live. Not only other people but also their own older children who weren’t allowed to seek any higher education. Don’t they get an explanation either? Do the older siblings feel like they have been robbed of their higher education?

I wonder if Sarah has stopped blogging because she doesn’t know how to explain what’s going on. Or maybe she is sulking? I totally would understand!

[theologygeek]

7 minutes ago, Austrian Atheist said:

I think I’m going through the stages of grief: After I digested my initial shock, I feel angry. I’m not angry with Anna and Mary - of course not! - but with the Maxwallian “system”. They have spent years and years and years promoting their lifestyle and telling everybody how to live. Conferences, tours, books, newsletters, blogs, county fairs, videos, demonstrations, proselytizing and so on. I’m not angry with them because they have changed some of their stances BUT I’m angry with them for omitting the truth and not addressing the reasons. Yes they are past their prime but they still have followers and people who bought their books. They let them hang in the air without giving any explanations. They could reach out and write something like: “Things hadn’t worked out for our family like we planned. We prayed about it and read bible verse whatever number and god told us it’s okay to make new decisions for a changing situation blah blah…”. But not even the slightest word. They just turn their backs on the people who bought into their views and lifestyle. People who were taught by them that this is the only right way to live. Not only other people but also their own older children who weren’t allowed to seek any higher education. Don’t they get an explanation either? Do the older siblings feel like they have been robbed of their higher education?

I wonder if Sarah has stopped blogging because she doesn’t know how to explain what’s going on. Or maybe she is sulking? I totally would understand!

They scammed people for money.  And people fell for it and didn't let their kids grow up to follow their dreams.  Steve is a money hungry mongrel asshole.  

[Dandruff]

I'm sure Anna and Mary are sharing a room, eating together, studying together, hanging out and making friends together, praying together, probably taking classes together, and generally keeping each other from the ravages of sin together.  I doubt either one would be attending without the other, so I wonder whether both actually wanted to attend. 

If one of them meets a guy who's interested (and willing to deal with Steve), will they maintain their togetherness by chaperoning?

[ClareDeLune]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

As a native of a small Appalachian town, I want to chime in on this--just because a college  is very fundamentalist, it doesn't mean that all the students are true believers.  I know plenty of people who went off to schools like Appalachian  Bible, or just Baptist schools like Carson-Newman (Gil and Kelly Bates' alma mater), but many of them weren't hardcore fundy in their hearts. They were going to those schools because they've been raised in this tradition and that is where their family wanted them to go. 

For every couple of true believer aspiring missionary maidens wearing a modesty tee under her shirt, there's probably another student who sneaks off for beer and making out in the woods.

Yes, there would be no need for 'care-ventions' and fines and confining adults to their dorms in the rule book if they didn't already have a lot of experience of punishing ordinary student behaviours.  It must seem wild to Mary and Anna that there even have to be those kind of threats for breaking rules.

[fundiefan]

26 minutes ago, Austrian Atheist said:

I think I’m going through the stages of grief: After I digested my initial shock, I feel angry. I’m not angry with Anna and Mary - of course not! - but with the Maxwallian “system”. They have spent years and years and years promoting their lifestyle and telling everybody how to live. Conferences, tours, books, newsletters, blogs, county fairs, videos, demonstrations, proselytizing and so on. I’m not angry with them because they have changed some of their stances BUT I’m angry with them for omitting the truth and not addressing the reasons. Yes they are past their prime but they still have followers and people who bought their books. They let them hang in the air without giving any explanations. They could reach out and write something like: “Things hadn’t worked out for our family like we planned. We prayed about it and read bible verse whatever number and god told us it’s okay to make new decisions for a changing situation blah blah…”. But not even the slightest word. They just turn their backs on the people who bought into their views and lifestyle. People who were taught by them that this is the only right way to live. Not only other people but also their own older children who weren’t allowed to seek any higher education. Don’t they get an explanation either? Do the older siblings feel like they have been robbed of their higher education?

I wonder if Sarah has stopped blogging because she doesn’t know how to explain what’s going on. Or maybe she is sulking? I totally would understand!

This is typical fundie behavior. When they change, they don't admit it. Look at the entire VF crowd & NCFIC crowd. Anyone admit they changed after the VF blow up? Dougie went into hiding & Beal reinvented herself as though their previous life never existed. Golden couple Bradrick! divorced, she remarried & has at least one more kid - has it ever been mentioned anywhere, by anyone, who promoted their perfection for a decade? 

Fundies don't apologize for selling their followers a bill of goods. They move on and pretend they don't even know what the bill of goods was, or that it never existed at all. Apologizing - acknowledging they did not, in fact, have a direct line to god and were making choices & decisions based on their own personal beliefs/wants/needs - isn't ever going to happen. If Steve ever said they changed course, he'd essentially be admitting that he does not, in fact, have a direct link to his god and his god is not dictating the details of his life. And if his god is not dictating, he's been a lying asshat for two decades, selling his followers snake oil.

The Duggars never acknowledged they are in a cult; in fact they've tried (lied) to create a disconnect between them & IBLP - even though they are still all in. 

Basically, they all want the power & "fame" & status & money that comes from being a mouthpiece of their god, but not one of them will ever acknowledge they were lying to you from the start. And they know damn well they were lying, because they know their god never told them shit. 

If Steve ever discussed the girls going to college, he'd have to answer 100 questions or more. And Steve doesn't answer questions. If he ever acknowledged that the plan he sold through the dog & pony shows did not even work in his own family - from sons having mortgages, to courtship not being the best way to avoid a broken heart (ask two of his married sons about that one, ammiright?),  to girls leaving home and going to college - he'd also have to acknowledge the millions of other ways his plan was not the only way to live and was actually an impossible state to even try to attempt; it was never real in the first place. 

[lunaselene503]

Am I the only one who isn't excited or shocked by this? I don't think this is a sign of any changes or behind the scenes developments. Steve and Terri probably even chose this college. I think the girls were sent to ABC to find husbands. Sarah is almost 40 and single unless a relationship is happening behind the scenes. If Mary and Anna don't want to end up like her this is their best chance at meeting someone. It's not like they have their tours anymore.

Edited September 7, 2021 by lunaselene503
Typos

[quiversR4hunting]

1 hour ago, lunaselene503 said:

Am I the only one who isn't excited or shocked by this? I don't think this is a sign of any changes or behind the scenes developments. Steve and Terri probably even chose this college. I think the girls were sent to ABC to find husbands. Sarah is almost 40 and single unless a relationship is happening behind the scenes. If Mary and Anna don't want to end up like her this is their best chance at meeting someone. It's not like they have their tours anymore.

I bet you are right. To be honest, I don't care if they are there to get their Mrs. degree. They have been sheltered for so long that just living out of the house from Steve and Teri and living with others that are not all like minded has to open their eyes a little bit. I hope they are on campus for at least 2 more years, see more, meet more people, etc. 

I wonder what Sarah thinks about being the only "child" at home. It will never happen but Paul-Matthew & John-Andrew Arndt are two fundies that might be able to marry Sarah as they too have never been married (to FJ collective knowledge). I know this match has been said before but I wonder if there are really very many fundie males still single and around 40 years old. I just realized that Paul Matthew turns 41 next week. wow. And still at home. wow. 

[HereticHick]

Dear sweet Rufus, the  ABCstudents pictured on  Instagram look so...dare I say...normal!  

Lady athletes in shorts!

Rafting trips!

Hanging at the campus coffee shop!