Upcoming Babies 21: Breeding Another Generation of Antivaxers & Conspiracy Theorists

[theotherelise]

3 hours ago, caitrona said:

Does IBLP/Gothard allow for surrogacy? Or is that not "leaving it up to God"? 

Gestational carriers require the use of IVF. IVF almost certainly means creating embryos that will be destroyed or will stop progressing in the lab. It also requires masturbation from the sperm creator. IVF is still controversial in many Christian denominations, let alone one that doesn’t even allow hormonal birth control because they think it’s an abortifacients. Of course ivf would go against their beliefs. 

Apologies if this is abrasive sounding to you. I’m just baffled at how often this kind of question comes up. It’s so absurd. 

[llucie]

Even not fundie people wouldnt usually consider doing surrogacy. It is really that common in the US that a sister would offer to be a surrrogate? In my country it is illegal, but even if it was legal i dont think that many people would consider doing it. I keep seeing people suggesting it in reddit too, and even suggest that they are not good sisters if they dont offer to have a baby for her...i dont think it is that simple.

Edited August 25, 2021 by llucie
corrections

[theotherelise]

It’s absurd. IVF and the FET required would cost at least $15,000. Then you have to pay legal costs and medical bills for the carrier. The people I know who’ve gone this route spent six figures. And they all did genetic testing on the embryos, so any abnormal were discarded. 

Besides it being nothing they would ever consider, I doubt any of the Bates sisters would be deemed suitable carriers considering their many pregnancy related health conditions and early term births. 

Listen: ivf requires anyone going through it to make a LOT of decisions. The medications are intense and side effects significant. Most people don’t get it covered by insurance so it costs $10,000-20,000 per round. It is mentally and emotionally stressful. And there are absolutely no guarantees.

IF SOMEONE DOESN’T CHOOSE TO GO THROUGH IVF OR USE A SURROGATE OR VOLUNTEER TO BE A CARRIER, THAT IS A VALID CHOICE. 

People who haven’t had to make these kinds of decisions don’t get that it’s not something you do as proof of how much you want a baby. It’s one valid choice out of many. And I want body autonomy for fundie women. Just because they have lots of babies and don’t use birth control doesn’t mean they have to carry a baby for someone else. 

Some of the fundie fan fiction going around these days has me astounded. Lol no Josh isn’t going to bank sperm for Anna to impregnate herself with. Wtf

[FiveAcres]

42 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

It’s absurd. IVF and the FET required would cost at least $15,000. Then you have to pay legal costs and medical bills for the carrier. The people I know who’ve gone this route spent six figures. And they all did genetic testing on the embryos, so any abnormal were discarded. 

Besides it being nothing they would ever consider, I doubt any of the Bates sisters would be deemed suitable carriers considering their many pregnancy related health conditions and early term births. 

Listen: ivf requires anyone going through it to make a LOT of decisions. The medications are intense and side effects significant. Most people don’t get it covered by insurance so it costs $10,000-20,000 per round. It is mentally and emotionally stressful. And there are absolutely no guarantees.

IF SOMEONE DOESN’T CHOOSE TO GO THROUGH IVF OR USE A SURROGATE OR VOLUNTEER TO BE A CARRIER, THAT IS A VALID CHOICE. 

People who haven’t had to make these kinds of decisions don’t get that it’s not something you do as proof of how much you want a baby. It’s one valid choice out of many. And I want body autonomy for fundie women. Just because they have lots of babies and don’t use birth control doesn’t mean they have to carry a baby for someone else. 

Some of the fundie fan fiction going around these days has me astounded. Lol no Josh isn’t going to bank sperm for Anna to impregnate herself with. Wtf

I have someone in my family who is currently in her second trimester with a IVF baby. Before she started this process I knew IVF was hard emotionally and financially (at least in the US), but I didn't realize how hard it was physically. I can't imagine doing it for another person. 

[theotherelise]

@FiveAcres totally! Just to clarify, you would be going through ivf for another person if you were serving as an egg donor. Gestational carriers go through embryo transfer either fresh or frozen. But that still requires a whole bunch of medication! Many of those protocols involve daily intramuscular progesterone in oil shots and progesterone suppositories 🤢

[fundiefan]

15 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I normally would agree you, but considering she's down to one partial ovary, it's amazing. I have known women who got pregnant with one ovary, but that was a complete ovary.

You. Can't. Get. Pregnant. From. Wanting. It. Enough. There are many, many infertile women who really  want babies and aren't blessed. 

Everything else you said here I agree with you, and I usually appreciate your posts.

 

I don't mean they hoped & prayed & wanted a pregnancy into fruition. 

 

 

[LurkerOverThePond]

I don't know the layout of their home, but could it be possible to add a room or two to the existing house? Assuming they could be able to buy this house instead of renting it.  Chad definitely seems capable of all things construction. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

I don't know the layout of their home, but could it be possible to add a room or two to the existing house? Assuming they could be able to buy this house instead of renting it.  Chad definitely seems capable of all things construction. 

I definitely think that’s possible. I would add one large bedroom, one large rec room, and one bathroom. But they would have to buy it first. 

[usedbicycle]

I don't really get the hate for Chad & Erin's house. The kids are obviously well cared for and have tons of space to play outside, with weather in Tennessee mild enough to be outdoors most of the year. It's a small house by modern American standards but 50 years ago it would be considered the norm for a family. Our European members would probably agree.

Maybe they're saving to buy a fixer upper in cash or to put down a large down payment on a property. Too many American families are house poor and they're smart to be living small and thinking about mortgage freedom. I also think they're not as well-off as some of the other families. Chad is hard-working but his remodel jobs seem quite small so far. A licensed plumber or electrician or police officer surely make more than him. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

I don't really get the hate for Chad & Erin's house. The kids are obviously well cared for and have tons of space to play outside, with weather in Tennessee mild enough to be outdoors most of the year. It's a small house by modern American standards but 50 years ago it would be considered the norm for a family. Our European members would probably agree.

Maybe they're saving to buy a fixer upper in cash or to put down a large down payment on a property. Too many American families are house poor and they're smart to be living small and thinking about mortgage freedom. I also think they're not as well-off as some of the other families. Chad is hard-working but his remodel jobs seem quite small so far. A licensed plumber or electrician or police officer surely make more than him. 

I live in a small house. I understand what it’s like to have 4 people working, schooling, staying home 24/7 in a not huge space. Thanks pandemic. During the warmer months it’s not a big deal. During the winter months it’s absolutely miserable. It’s why I figure Erin was always going to the Bates house in the winter with her kids. Maybe her kids happily sit on their hands all day but mine don’t. They bounce off the walls during the winter when we’ve been cooped up too long. 

[fundiefan]

28 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

I don't really get the hate for Chad & Erin's house. The kids are obviously well cared for and have tons of space to play outside, with weather in Tennessee mild enough to be outdoors most of the year. It's a small house by modern American standards but 50 years ago it would be considered the norm for a family. Our European members would probably agree.

Maybe they're saving to buy a fixer upper in cash or to put down a large down payment on a property. Too many American families are house poor and they're smart to be living small and thinking about mortgage freedom. I also think they're not as well-off as some of the other families. Chad is hard-working but his remodel jobs seem quite small so far. A licensed plumber or electrician or police officer surely make more than him. 

I don't know that anyone is hating on the house. I am not. 

I do, however, think five kids in a two bedroom house is something like crazy. It has nothing to do with what people used to do or how families used to live or how families now live in McMansions. 

It has to do with five children & two adults in a home with five rooms; 2 bedrooms, living, kitchen, bath. When does a single member of that home have a chance to walk without tripping over someone? Go to the bathroom without every other member of the home knowing they're going to the bathroom? Take a nap, when not everyone naps thus cutting the space down to four rooms for non nappers to be in. 

I think there are many ways to live non extravagant lives with enough room for everyone to breathe and maybe play with a toy or read a book  without tripping over someone else. Five rooms, one a bathroom which isn't really a room, for a family of seven, when you can clearly afford something else (they can refrain from redecorating a time or two & use the money to rent a larger home or apartment).

 

[llucie]

2 hours ago, usedbicycle said:

I don't really get the hate for Chad & Erin's house. The kids are obviously well cared for and have tons of space to play outside, with weather in Tennessee mild enough to be outdoors most of the year. It's a small house by modern American standards but 50 years ago it would be considered the norm for a family. Our European members would probably agree.

 

 

As an european i agree that a small house can work perfectly for a small family. I personally shared a bedroom with my sister all my childhood since we lived in a 2 bedroom apartment. Now i never heard of anyone that had 5 kids in one room, specially not 5 kids of diferent genders. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, fundiefan said:

I don't know that anyone is hating on the house. I am not. 

I do, however, think five kids in a two bedroom house is something like crazy. It has nothing to do with what people used to do or how families used to live or how families now live in McMansions. 

It has to do with five children & two adults in a home with five rooms; 2 bedrooms, living, kitchen, bath. When does a single member of that home have a chance to walk without tripping over someone? Go to the bathroom without every other member of the home knowing they're going to the bathroom? Take a nap, when not everyone naps thus cutting the space down to four rooms for non nappers to be in. 

I think there are many ways to live non extravagant lives with enough room for everyone to breathe and maybe play with a toy or read a book  without tripping over someone else. Five rooms, one a bathroom which isn't really a room, for a family of seven, when you can clearly afford something else (they can refrain from redecorating a time or two & use the money to rent a larger home or apartment).

 

Plus Erin and Chad are in the bigger bedroom. Is she really going to put 5 beds in a very small bedroom and keep the master for just Erin and Chad? That makes no sense to me. Their bed isn’t a king. It looks like a full to me. I think it can probably fit in the smaller bedroom. 5 beds can fit much better in the bigger bedroom. The fact that they also don’t seem to have a basement means they can’t expand. If they had a basement, Chad could pretty easily refinish it and make a rec room or bedroom down there. But they don’t have that option. Since they rent, they don’t have a ton of options for that house. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[anjulibai]

Do they use bunkbeds? They baby will probably be in Erin and Chad's room. If they had one more bedroom and one more bath, it would all probably be fine. 

[Tangy Bee]

Adding on would be a good option if their landlord is ok with it.

[llucie]

35 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Do they use bunkbeds? They baby will probably be in Erin and Chad's room. If they had one more bedroom and one more bath, it would all probably be fine. 

This is the last picture of the kids bedroom situation: 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMtKqTArPZb/

That black wood thing to the right its a bunkbed (https://www.instagram.com/p/B1Ac-wkH0Kf/), then there is the crib for the baby, and that little matress on the floor for the toddler. I suppose they can put another bunkbed where the crib is and have the baby in the master bedroom for the time being. The master bedroom is actually quite spacious so they have room for that.

 

[browngrl]

How much does land go for in their area? I would assume that  a piece land that was reasonably priced could be found and Chad has his own construction business so he could do a lot of the work of building a house himself. Whitney, Alyssa and Josie  all seem to be able to afford their own home - but have done a lot of the renovation work themselves or recruited their brothers/BIL to help. And then there is Sam Morton who has built his own house (although he probably saved by building on land owned by the Mortons already)

I did notice that none of these people hired Chad and when Carlin did her last redecoration, she did not hire Erin and Erin has not shown up lately in Carlin's instagram stories about their clothing store. On top of this perhaps Erin's health issues set them back. Maybe the money is too tight to mention?

Edited August 25, 2021 by browngrl
thought of something else to say

[SassyPants]

If money is possibly tight, maybe they should stop adding more mouths to feed. This is irresponsible breeding for folks with their current living conditions and possible health issues. Think if this was a family of color under the same circumstances. Would that family be featured in People magazine? 

[Bethella]

14 minutes ago, browngrl said:

How much does land go for in their area? I would assume that  a piece land that was reasonably priced could be found and Chad has his own construction business so he could do a lot of the work of building a house himself. Whitney, Alyssa and Josie  all seem to be able to afford their own home - but have done a lot of the renovation work themselves or recruited their brothers/BIL to help. And then there is Sam Morton who has built his own house (although he probably saved by building on land owned by the Mortons already)

It really seems to vary quite a bit (based on a quick look at Zillow, so I might be missing some of the details/issues with some of the properties). If they're willing to go outside of town, there are 1-4 acre lots in the $25-$50,000 range. In town appears to be significantly higher. But there are also three bedroom houses available for under $200,000, a couple are even under $150,000. There's also a five bedroom house for $199,000. 

• 4.02 acres $39,000 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4-02-Macedonia-Church-Rd-Heiskell-TN-37754/2079421051_zpid/
• 1.4 acres $25,000 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/0-Hilltop-Cir-Caryville-TN-37714/2071105779_zpid/
• 1.01 acres $9,900 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/125-Old-Hearth-Dr-La-Follette-TN-37766/2080450384_zpid/
• 2.18 acres $55,000 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/35-Hickory-Trl-Norris-TN-37828/40775163_zpid/
• 1.01 acres $53,000 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/12-Hickory-Pl-Norris-TN-37828/40776376_zpid/

 

• 5 bed 2 bath $199,000 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/311-319-Mountain-Rd-Caryville-TN-37714/2068786188_zpid/
• 3 bed 2 bath $170,000 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/604-High-Ave-Lake-City-TN-37769/40774535_zpid/
• 3 bed 1 bath $135,000 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/308-Railroad-Ave-Lake-City-TN-37769/2068725283_zpid/
• 3 bed 1 bath $125,500 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/205-Leach-Ave-Lake-City-TN-37769/40774338_zpid/
• 3 bed 1 bath $119,000 https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/136-Massey-Lane-Caryville-TN-37714/2101926527_zpid/

[JermajestyDuggar]

20 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

If money is possibly tight, maybe they should stop adding more mouths to feed. This is irresponsible breeding for folks with their current living conditions and possible health issues. Think if this was a family of color under the same circumstances. Would that family be featured in People magazine? 

Or with bad hair and makeup. JillRod smooshes kids in a too small home and no one defends her. 

[fundiefan]

30 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Or with bad hair and makeup. JillRod smooshes kids in a too small home and no one defends her. 

Remember the kids stacked like cordwood? The ten? 12? kids in one room was so ongoing, and so part of FJ culture, that anyone around then knows exactly who I'm talking about. 

Erin & Chad are half way to that. Yet, I guess because they're pretty or on tv or use Pinterest to furnish the room instead of Costco, they get a pass at cramming a bunch of kids into a small room. Looking at that picture of the kids room,  in one frame you still see the beds for four kids. Each touching the other. They are just short of literally freaking "stacked".

Again, I never suggested they need a five bedroom McMansion but what they have is not sufficient for their soon to be family of seven. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

12 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

Remember the kids stacked like cordwood? The ten? 12? kids in one room was so ongoing, and so part of FJ culture, that anyone around then knows exactly who I'm talking about. 

Erin & Chad are half way to that. Yet, I guess because they're pretty or on tv or use Pinterest to furnish the room instead of Costco, they get a pass at cramming a bunch of kids into a small room. Looking at that picture of the kids room,  in one frame you still see the beds for four kids. Each touching the other. They are just short of literally freaking "stacked".

Again, I never suggested they need a five bedroom McMansion but what they have is not sufficient for their soon to be family of seven. 

Plus two of those beds have toddler sized mattresses. So putting another bunk bed in there would eat up so much room, I don’t think you could fit a crib too. They would have to make a triple bunk bed to fit them all. I can actually see Erin talking Chad into it. 

[SassyPants]

Here is my biggest question, if you consider children the greatest blessing of all, wouldn’t you cherish each one, and want to provide the best life and life style for them? Wouldn’t that include investing your time and energy Into insuring that they are well cared for, educated and provided with unlimited opportunities to thrive, explore the world and develop their own, individual potential? 
 

Also, where is their money? They’ve been married for a bit. They both work and their rent has to be next to nothing. How much money has been spent pursuing pregnancies and MORE kids? How much money has been put into a house that as far as we know, they don’t own? I just think if you can’t afford more indoor space, why are you adding more human volume to that limited area? They seem misguided and immature in their thinking. Why is the focus always on the next  kid vs the already born? Is it attention seeking on the part of the mother? Is it pregnancy addiction for others?

[usedbicycle]

I guess I have a personal bias in favor of tiny living and van life so I get kind of defensive of people who choose to live small. 4 kids sleeping in a bedroom is a far cry from the Rod RV of horrors or the Schupes who wouldn't allow the kids to play outside. 

I agree that #5 on the way will probably change things up. The baby can stay with Erin for a while, but they will need a 3rd bedroom at some point. For now I'm saving the snark for their reckless covid beliefs...

 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

38 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

I guess I have a personal bias in favor of tiny living and van life so I get kind of defensive of people who choose to live small. 4 kids sleeping in a bedroom is a far cry from the Rod RV of horrors or the Schupes who wouldn't allow the kids to play outside. 

I agree that #5 on the way will probably change things up. The baby can stay with Erin for a while, but they will need a 3rd bedroom at some point. For now I'm saving the snark for their reckless covid beliefs...

 

 

I don’t love tiny living but I love minimalism. However I’ve noticed fundies will use these trends as an excuse to be shitty parents. Zoo got rid of a shit ton of her children’s things in the name of minimalism. But she didn’t get rid of her shit! Same with Erin. She squeezes 4 kids in a small room while she gets the big room. The kids are always the ones who suffer in these Instances.