Upcoming Babies 21: Breeding Another Generation of Antivaxers & Conspiracy Theorists

[Bethella]

1 hour ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

They had a kid named Lamb?? Oh now I need to know their other kids’ names. 

Robert Allen “Bobby” “Sunstar” “Papa Pilgrim” Hale and his second wife, Kurina Rose “Country Rose” Bresler had 15 children. (His first wife, Kathleen Connally, died in an “accidental” shooting and he reportedly had four other children with three other women before his second marriage). The first two kids were born during the family’s hippie phase and were renamed when they went fundie.

1. Butterfly Sunstar (later renamed Elishaba, now goes by Elizabeth)
2. Nava Sunstar (later renamed Joseph)
3. Joshua
4. David 
5. Moses E.
6. Israel
7. Jerusalem R. (now goes by Joy)
8. Hosanna X.
9. Job Daniel
10. Noah
11. Abraham Enoch
12. Psalms
13. Lamb Yukon Rose (now goes by Rebecca Hope)
14. Bethlehem (now goes by Emily Beth)
15. Jonathan

After Papa Pilgrimage was jailed for abusing his family, they were taken in and raised by the Buckinghams. James Miller “Jim” Buckingham and his wife Mary Martha “Martha” Sweatte have nine children.

1. Tischaria Joy “Sharia”
2. Tilaundia “Lolly”
3. Christina F.
4. James Justice
5. Jonathan Noble “Jonny”
6. Daniel Truth
7. Maryanna Grace
8. Lydia P.
9. Joshua

There have been a number of intermarriages, especially if you take the Buck-Hales to be one large family.

1. Joseph Hale and Lolly Buckingham
2. Joshua Hale and Sharia Buckingham 
3. Israel Hale and Cori Rubio
4. David Hale and Heidi Rubio
5. Christina Buckingham and Garrett Rubio
6. Moses Hale and Rebecca Stevens
7. James Buckingham and Rachel Stevens
8. Joy Hale and Jacob Berlin
9. Jonny Buckingham and Jenny Berlin

[Maggie Mae]

2 hours ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

They had a kid named Lamb?? Oh now I need to know their other kids’ names. 

Lamb changed her name, but regardless, if you are interested in their story, please read Pilgrim's Wilderness.  It's written by someone who lives in McCarthy, where the Hales moved to in 1998. It's a really sad story, but the storyteller is really good at describing the town, the general attitude of people, and some of the other things that Robert Hale did before going to jail. 

Robert Hale aka Papa Pilgrim died in custody in 2008. He was arrested in 2005.  They lived on a homestead in the middle of a national park from 1998 until 2005. 

If you don't want to read the book, here's a great article from Outside Magazine https://www.outsideonline.com/adventure-travel/destinations/north-america/papa-pilgrims-progress-dark-tale-alaskan-frontiersman/

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

The Buckinghales grandchildren have a lot of virtue names as middle names. It seems very common for that group. 

[Themanda Duggar]

If I’d been one of the Hale offspring, I would have changed my last name.

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

Um, is Sharia pronounced like Sharia law? Lolololwut!

And did they just make up the name Tilaundia? I just googled it and the only things that come up are her.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

Um, is Sharia pronounced like Sharia law? Lolololwut!

And did they just make up the name Tilaundia? I just googled it and the only things that come up are her.

Tisharia goes by Sharia and Tilaundia goes by Lolly. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it pronounced before. I don’t know why they picked those unusual names and then went totally fundie mainstream with the rest. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[NachosFlandersStyle]

The current mayor of St. Louis is named Tishaura. That's the only other person I can think of with a name close to Tischaria. Tilaundia, I don't even know. At least they have nickname options, though if I were them I'd go with Tillie or Tish.

[hoipolloi]

16 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

if you are interested in their story, please read Pilgrim's Wilderness.  It's written by someone who lives in McCarthy, where the Hales moved to in 1998.

Found this in my library's ebook "stacks" -- thanks for the rec.

Also, it looks like Elizabeth-Elishaba is publishing a memoir.

[albireo]

7 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Tisharia goes by Sharia and Tilaundia goes by Lolly. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it pronounced before. I don’t know why they picked those unusual names and then went totally fundie mainstream with the rest. 

According to Sharia's Facebook, it's pronounced "share-ee-uh," so not like the law. I've never heard Tischaria or Tilaundia before either.

 

[Maggie Mae]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

Found this in my library's ebook "stacks" -- thanks for the rec.

Also, it looks like Elizabeth-Elishaba is publishing a memoir.

Israel has an interesting story as well. Here's a newspaper article about him https://www.adn.com/outdoors-adventure/2019/04/04/an-accident-took-his-legs-but-israel-hale-found-freedom-on-a-snowmachine/ I remember when the auto accident happened. It's actually a huge fear of mine at that time of the year; everyone is sun blind and while I wouldn't just stop in the middle of a very busy east/west corridor for no reason, stuff happens and people are V impatient. Maybe a year before that I was driving home in very similar circumstance when someone passed out in the gutter right in front of my car. It was one of those situations where I couldn't decide if I would rather get out or stay in the vehicle, each seemed equally dangerous. We stopped and called the paramedics and rendered aid but it was so scary. I couldn't imaging how terrifying it must have been to be in that situation and then be hit. 

Here's a story from 2006 as well https://www.adn.com/projects/article/hale-children-and-their-mother-find-peace-after-controversial-life-mccarthy/2013/07/12/ about the Buckinghams. 

I don't particularly like the Buckingham's, or their Old School Maxwell life that they have spread to their neighbors. That entire area of Palmer is kind of weird. 

 

[indianabones]

Lolly's name is so uncommon that if you Google her, her address pops up!

[EyesOpen]

17 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

If you don't want to read the book, here's a great article from Outside Magazine https://www.outsideonline.com/adventure-travel/destinations/north-america/papa-pilgrims-progress-dark-tale-alaskan-frontiersman/

 

Holy cow. I always saw their family listed together as the buckingham hales but I didn’t know this twisted history!! Those poor kids… they’ve done well considering. What ever happened to the mother/ wife?

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, indianabones said:

Lolly's name is so uncommon that if you Google her, her address pops up!

When naming my kids, I remember wanting their names not to be super popular. But I didn’t want them to have such rare names that they would be easy to Google.

[Maggie Mae]

10 minutes ago, indianabones said:

Lolly's name is so uncommon that if you Google her, her address pops up!

It's their business address. 

10 minutes ago, EyesOpen said:

Holy cow. I always saw their family listed together as the buckingham hales but I didn’t know this twisted history!! Those poor kids… they’ve done well considering. What ever happened to the mother/ wife?

I know she challenged Jim Buckingham's guardian request (it's all on Court View) and that's honestly about it. I think Elishaba talked a bit about her when she was recording podcasts and writing her first book, but honestly I didn't pay that much attention. 

10 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

When naming my kids, I remember wanting their names not to be super popular. But I didn’t want them to have such rare names that they would be easy to Google.

Literally everyone's address in my state is public unless you take steps to make it less though. They actually have taken a lot of those steps (addresses don't appear in voter records, for one.) It's a business address so they either live on site of their construction company or they just don't care. 

[church_of_dog]

22 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

Lamb changed her name, but regardless, if you are interested in their story, please read Pilgrim's Wilderness.  It's written by someone who lives in McCarthy, where the Hales moved to in 1998. It's a really sad story, but the storyteller is really good at describing the town, the general attitude of people, and some of the other things that Robert Hale did before going to jail. 

Robert Hale aka Papa Pilgrim died in custody in 2008. He was arrested in 2005.  They lived on a homestead in the middle of a national park from 1998 until 2005. 

If you don't want to read the book, here's a great article from Outside Magazine https://www.outsideonline.com/adventure-travel/destinations/north-america/papa-pilgrims-progress-dark-tale-alaskan-frontiersman/

 

There is also a book written by Patsy Hale, the wife of Papa Pilgrim's twin brother.  It tells the Pilgrim story from the family's perspective.  It's called "He Heard His Brother Call His Name" and it's worth reading for anyone who wants to learn more about the family and their story.

[smittykins]

17 hours ago, indianabones said:

Lolly's name is so uncommon that if you Google her, her address pops up!

I can only think of Lolly, Lolly, Lolly, Get Your Adverbs Here.

[fundiefan]

1 minute ago, smittykins said:

I can only think of Lolly, Lolly, Lolly, Get Your Adverbs Here.

There's the day's earworm. 

Lolly the Clown of Maxhell. Interesting - since they are friends with the real Lolly; she did illustrations for some of Sarah's books. I'd be kinda' insulted if I were Lolly to have that monstrosity named for me. 

[Sops2]

Are these Hales any connection to Daniel Hale who is married to Deborah Smith of the 11smiths ?

[JermajestyDuggar]

12 minutes ago, Sops2 said:

Are these Hales any connection to Daniel Hale who is married to Deborah Smith of the 11smiths ?

No, he’s a different Hale. Unless he’s a cousin.

[Sops2]

Thanks- guess I'll just stick to the Hale /Smiths who hatch chicks and seldom post these days.

The Buckingham Hales look like too deep a rabbit hole for me.

[hoipolloi]

20 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I don't particularly like the Buckingham's, or their Old School Maxwell life that they have spread to their neighbors.

Read through Pilgrim's Wilderness and it's pretty good, but I am also left with an ick feeling about the Buckinghams, despite their undoubtedly positive role in the terrible Pilgrim-Hale situation. 

They apparently practice(d) the same Daddy-centered courtship, with younger siblings bird-dogging their older, betrothed/engaged brothers & sisters before marriage. None of their kids appear to have any education beyond SOTDRT. 

 

[NakedKnees]

Thank you everyone for sharing the links to resources on the Hales. They are absolutely a rabbit hole but I did not know there was this many resources on them. I downloaded the Pilgrim's Wilderness audiobook and would love to read Elishaba's memoir too. She looks so happy in the more current photos of her  

I think that's part of why the Hales interest so much. Their situation got so, so, so horrible but there seems to have been a lot of healing for them in the last 15 years or so. Some certainly seem more fundie than others today, but that's not too surprising.

Edited November 3, 2021 by NakedKnees
Audiobook, not e-book

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Read through Pilgrim's Wilderness and it's pretty good, but I am also left with an ick feeling about the Buckinghams, despite their undoubtedly positive role in the terrible Pilgrim-Hale situation. 

They apparently practice(d) the same Daddy-centered courtship, with younger siblings bird-dogging their older, betrothed/engaged brothers & sisters before marriage. None of their kids appear to have any education beyond SOTDRT. 

 

Definitely. There are levels of awfulness when it comes to fundies. Papa Hale is one of the very worst. Most fundies would look better compared to him. So yes, the papa Buckingham is better than papa Hale, but that doesn’t mean he’s some great guy. Just like the Mortons aren’t suddenly awesome just because they held Alan Smith accountable and cut ties with Bret and Jackie. 

[hoipolloi]

48 minutes ago, NakedKnees said:

They are absolutely a rabbit hole but I did not know there was this many resources on them.

If you have Kindle Unlimited, you can download for "free" the memoir by the widow of Robert Hale's twin brother. Haven't read it yet so don't know what it's like but the author of Pilgrim's Wilderness included some of her information.

[smittykins]

5 hours ago, fundiefan said:

There's the day's earworm. 

Glad to be of service.