Coronavirus 6: The Plague of Delta

[47of74]

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Holland Hospital in western Michigan said it is ending its relationship with Minnesota Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins over his stance on Covid-19 vaccines.

The hospital announced the cancellation of its agreement with Cousins after he refused to say at a news conference whether he is vaccinated, calling it a “very private health decision.” 

“While we acknowledge that each person is entitled to their own viewpoints, those who speak on our behalf must support messages that align with the hospital’s position on matters of vital importance to individual and community health,” the hospital said in a statement. “For this reason, Holland Hospital will discontinue using Kirk Cousins as our spokesperson for now.”

Cousins spoke to the media after being placed on the team’s Covid-19 protocols when he was named a close contact of a teammate who tested positive for coronavirus earlier this week. Collins said he was “at peace” with his choice.

 

[WiseGirl]

Mask mandate goes into effect in my area today (United States). It includes five other towns and the bigger city we all border. Some testing sites have reopened as well. 

[Smash!]

What will a new normal look like? Good thread by Andy Slavitt 

Unroll: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1426656681774129156.html 

[Cartmann99]

School started on August 10th, so they weren't even back a full week. Their superintendent is female, so the comments made will be particularly vile.

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I don't know if anyone has seen this, but the church in Jacksonville Florida has lost 6 parishioners all of whom were "under 35 and healthy". The church has a mask mandate and is using the church building to get people vaccinated (non-members, too). 

I'm putting this here, because it doesn't sound like the issue is religion, just people who thought they were young enough to be safe.

[Smash!]

From the NYT Can the Vaccinated Develop Long Covid After a Breakthrough Infection?

Full article under spoiler

Spoiler

While some breakthrough cases among those who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 are inevitable, they are unlikely to result in hospitalization or death. But one important question about breakthrough infection that remains unanswered is: Can the vaccinated develop so-called long Covid?

Long Covid refers to a set of symptoms — such as severe fatigue, brain fog, headache, muscle pain and sleep problems — that can persist for weeks or months after the active infection has ended. The syndrome is poorly understood, but studies suggest that between 10 and 30 percent of adults who catch the virus may experience long Covid, including those who experienced only mild illness or no symptoms at all.

But the vast majority of data collected about long Covid has been in the unvaccinated population. The risk of developing long Covid for the fully vaccinated who get infected after vaccination hasn’t been studied.

While preliminary research suggests that it is, in fact, possible for a breakthrough case to lead to symptoms that can persist for weeks to months, there are still more questions than answers. What percent of breakthrough cases result in lingering symptoms? How many of those people recover? Are the persistent symptoms after breakthrough infection as severe as those that occur in the unvaccinated?
“I just don’t think there is enough data,” said Dr. Zijian Chen, medical director at the Center for Post-Covid Care at Mount Sinai Health System in New York. “It’s too early to tell. The population of people getting sick post vaccination isn’t that high right now, and there’s no good tracking mechanism for these patients.”

One recent study of Israeli health care workers published in the New England Journal of Medicine offers a glimpse of the risk of long Covid after a breakthrough infection. Among 1,497 fully vaccinated health care workers, 39 of them — about 2.6 percent — developed breakthrough infections. (All of the workers were believed to be infected after contact with an unvaccinated person, and the study was conducted before the Delta variant became dominant.)

While most of the breakthrough cases were mild or asymptomatic, seven out of 36 workers tracked at six weeks (19 percent) still had persistent symptoms. These long Covid symptoms included a mix of prolonged loss of smell, persistent cough, fatigue, weakness, labored breathing or muscle pain.

But the study’s authors caution against drawing too many conclusions from the research. The sample size — just seven patients — is small. And the research was designed to study antibody levels in the infected, said Dr. Gili Regev-Yochay, director of the infectious disease epidemiology unit at Sheba Medical Center. It was not designed to study the risk of long Covid after a breakthrough infection.

“It was not the scope of this paper,” Dr. Regev-Yochay said. “I don’t think we have an answer to that.”
Even so, the fact that one in five of the health care workers who had breakthrough infections still had lingering symptoms after six weeks appears to be the first indication from a peer-reviewed study that long Covid is possible after a breakthrough infection.

“People have said to me, ‘You’re fully vaccinated. Why are you being so careful?’” said Dr. Robert M. Wachter, professor and chair of the department of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco. “I’m still in the camp of I don’t want to get Covid. I don’t want to get a breakthrough infection.”

Dr. Wachter said that despite the many limitations of the Israeli study, the data offer more evidence that the vaccinated should keep taking reasonable precautions to avoid the virus.

“I’m going to take it at face value that one in five people, six weeks after a breakthrough case, continued to feel crummy,” Dr. Wachter said. “That’s enough to make me want to wear two masks when I go into the grocery store, which is not that burdensome anyway.”

Complicating the study of breakthrough infections is the fact that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention only tracks post-vaccination infections that result in hospitalization or death. While the C.D.C. does continue to study breakthrough infections in several large cohorts, the lack of data on all breakthrough cases remains a source of frustration among scientists and patient advocacy groups.

“It’s very frustrating not to have data at this point in the pandemic to know what happens to breakthrough cases,” said Akiko Iwasaki, an immunologist at Yale School of Medicine who is conducting studies of long Covid. “If mild breakthrough infection is turning into long Covid, we don’t have a grasp of that number.”

Diana Berrent, founder of Survivor Corps, a Facebook group for people affected by Covid-19 that has about 171,000 members, took an informal poll and found 24 people who said they had lingering symptoms after a breakthrough infection. It’s not a scientific sample, and the cases haven’t been validated, but the poll shows the need for more data on breakthrough cases, Ms. Berrent said.
“You can’t extrapolate it to the general population, but it’s a very strong signal that the C.D.C. needs to be mandating reporting of every breakthrough case,” Ms. Berrent said. “We can’t know what we’re not counting.”

But some experts predict the surge of new cases caused by the spread of the Delta variant will, unfortunately, lead to more breakthrough cases in the coming months. Dr. Chen of Mount Sinai said it will take several months before patients with long Covid from a breakthrough infection are enrolled in studies.

“We’re waiting for these patients to show up at our doors,” Dr. Chen said.

Despite the lack of data, one thing is clear: Getting vaccinated will reduce the risk of getting infected and getting long Covid, said Athena Akrami, a neuroscientist at University College London who collected and published data from nearly 4,000 long Covid patients after developing long Covid herself after a March 2020 bout with Covid-19.

“It’s simple math,” said Dr. Akrami. “If you reduce infections, then the likelihood of long Covid will drop automatically.”

 

 

[Coconut Flan]

My internal debate this week is to get a third dose of Moderna now or wait.  I barely technically meet the CDC guidance for immediately and my doctor has said yes I will need to take the third dose.  My daughters have it as a given that I'll get it.  When seems to be the issue.  

I've had lupus issues ever since dose 2 that haven't fully resolved and that's why I'm wondering if I should wait another month or just do it and suffer through.

[47of74]

I'm just going to go with whatever my doctor says as for the third moderna shot.  If he wants me to get it then I'll be like sign me up then.  Or if he wants me to wait that's fine too. 

[Dandruff]

I've been considering a third shot too, though I'm not sure I meet the criteria for getting one now.  While I'd love to stay as inoculated as possible, it occurred to me that getting a third shot soon could leave me with waning immunity during the winter months.  I think I'd rather have better immunity then and who knows if/when a fourth dose may become available.  I'm also hoping that a booster comes out that specifically covers Delta.

I finally ordered some N95 masks and they arrived today.  I have some KN95s on hand also.  For now, I'm just wearing well-fitting procedure masks and occasionally a cloth mask, and always have one on when I'm indoors around others.

[Howl]

I started the J & J Janssen vaccine  study and had my first shot August 30, 2020 and my second just before Thanksgiving. 

Our general vax status was unblinded when regular vaccines first came on the scene, last Feb I think.  I know I got the actual vax BUT there were multiple combinations and they were unable to tells us which one we received. It could be one shot/one placebo, high dose/low dose, low dose/low dose, high dose/high dose.  I had no reaction to either shot, other than a tiny bit of redness at the injection site. 

I'd been contemplating leaving the study and starting Moderna.  While I was thinking about this, I just heard on the news that J & J Janssen is going to release study results in the next few weeks.  I'll see if the vaccine study will get us the info on which combination we received, but likely I'll just get a J & J booster.  

[FiveAcres]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

I started the J & J Janssen vaccine  study and had my first shot August 30, 2020 and my second just before Thanksgiving. 

Our general vax status was unblinded when regular vaccines first came on the scene, last Feb I think.  I know I got the actual vax BUT there were multiple combinations and they were unable to tells us which one we received. It could be one shot/one placebo, high dose/low dose, low dose/low dose, high dose/high dose.  I had no reaction to either shot, other than a tiny bit of redness at the injection site. 

I'd been contemplating leaving the study and starting Moderna.  While I was thinking about this, I just heard on the news that J & J Janssen is going to release study results in the next few weeks.  I'll see if the vaccine study will get us the info on which combination we received, but likely I'll just get a J & J booster.  

Thank you for participating in the study. It must be maddening not to know the parameters of what you received,

[WiseGirl]

Great, my county is now deemed "high transmission" by the CDC. I just can't with the anti vax anymore. 

[CTRLZero]

Just a sign of the times - wedding invitation with COVID-19 prevention requirements.  We may wear masks even though vaccinated.  
 

Spoiler

 

[FiveAcres]

Today I went to my weekly agility class. There are three students with a total of six dogs. One woman came to class late: she was attending a funeral in her car via zoom for a family friend who had just died of COVID 19 in Houston. 

[WiseGirl]

In case you missed it. From the speech, "Avoiding masks is not in the Bible, but taking care of others is."

https://www.today.com/parents/watch-dad-s-emotional-speech-about-masks-local-school-board-t228663m

Plus, Alabama doctor refusing to treat unvaccinated.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by WiseGirl
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[JuanitaBanana]

Hello. There's something I want to talk about that is giving me horrible anxiety. I'm not sure what I'm looking for... Just to get it out of my chest I guess. 

A little background, I'm a 37 year old woman with 2 school age kids and I live in a Latin American country. 

Vaccination for my age group finally started in August and I was really happy because it's right on time for the beginning of the school year. 

But now I'm suffering terrible anxiety because the only vaccine available for me is Astra Zeneca and I'm scared of serious side effects. I know that this vaccine isn't recommended for women under 40 and that some countries aren't even using it anymore so I don't understand why our government is using it in younger people. 

I don't know what to do... I know vaccines are the best way to end this and that I need to protect myself the best I can, not just for me but for my children. Unfortunately, my anxiety has convinced me that I'm going to be one of the people that gets life threatening complications from Astra. I know I sound crazy but I've had really bad health anxiety for years and not being able to choose a different vaccine makes me want to cry.

Ugh, now everyone is going to hate me but I needed to get it out of my chest. I know I need to make a decisión but I'm seriously terrified. 

[Howl]

From tweet posted by @Cartmann99: 

Quote

School district in rural West Texas says they're shutting down for 2 weeks due to COVID-19. Iraan-Sheffield ISD in Pecos Co. near Midland canceled all classes and athletic events until Aug. 30, encouraging students to quarantine.

I'm probably the only other person on the forum who knows where Sheffield and Iraan are located.  When they say those towns are "near Midland" this is a relative term in West Texas distance -- Midland is over 80 miles away, but is the closest point of reference. 

My guess is that the August 30 date is significant. They want to get school going again for the start of football season, even if it is 6-man football. 

Our newspaper did a piece a few days ago on the most unvaccinated county in Texas, also in West Texas.  The people are way the heck out there, just doing their own thing.  COVID hasn't intruded on them at all and they don't think much about it.  If they want to get vaccinated, they have to drive a long damn way to do it.  However, it would only take one person bringing COVID into their community to create a disaster and top tier medical help is far away. 

[Smee]

7 hours ago, JuanitaBanana said:

Hello. There's something I want to talk about that is giving me horrible anxiety. I'm not sure what I'm looking for... Just to get it out of my chest I guess. 

A little background, I'm a 37 year old woman with 2 school age kids and I live in a Latin American country. 

Vaccination for my age group finally started in August and I was really happy because it's right on time for the beginning of the school year. 

But now I'm suffering terrible anxiety because the only vaccine available for me is Astra Zeneca and I'm scared of serious side effects. I know that this vaccine isn't recommended for women under 40 and that some countries aren't even using it anymore so I don't understand why our government is using it in younger people. 

I don't know what to do... I know vaccines are the best way to end this and that I need to protect myself the best I can, not just for me but for my children. Unfortunately, my anxiety has convinced me that I'm going to be one of the people that gets life threatening complications from Astra. I know I sound crazy but I've had really bad health anxiety for years and not being able to choose a different vaccine makes me want to cry.

Ugh, now everyone is going to hate me but I needed to get it out of my chest. I know I need to make a decisión but I'm seriously terrified. 

No one is going to hate you ❤️ It’s scary when there’s so much talk in the media. I’m 33 and getting my first dose of AstraZeneca tomorrow, and I keep reminding myself:

1) lots of health care workers here (Australia) got it before the very rare blood clot risks became known

2) millions of doses have been given without issues, and it continues to be offered in places like the UK

3) I have taken other medications, such as the pill, with a higher risk

4) the risk of death or serious illness from covid is much much higher than the risk from the vaccine.

I understand that when you’re feeling scared, the logical answers aren’t necessarily enough to give you courage. But I’m here cheering for you and sending virtual hugs. And I’ll come back in a few days to let you know how my AZ vaccination went!

[Someone Out There]

@JuanitaBanana @Smee is giving good advice. I would also add that the risk of blood clots if you get COVID-19 is higher than that from the AZ vaccine. I would understand what the symptoms are for blood clots, and if you notice that you have them after having the AZ vaccine then go and get help. My understanding is that medical staff now know how to treat the clots, so if you get to treated early then there is a fairly low risk of complications from them.

[Smash!]

@JuanitaBanana I totally get where you are coming from. To be honest I was glad my country never approved Astra Zeneca (for other reasons than the side effects tough) and i have gotten Moderna instead.

@Smee is right tough. The side effects are rare and very treatable. Doctors know what to look for. Your risk of blood clots is higher when you get Covid-19 than with Astra Zeneca.

[Howl]

On 8/17/2021 at 9:20 PM, FiveAcres said:

It must be maddening not to know the parameters of what you received,

It is, and now I'm more concerned because of the time lapse from the 2nd dose of whatever. That date was just before Thanksgiving, 2020, so I'm 9 months out from the second dose OR the 2nd dose was placebo and I'm a year out.  

I was diagnosed with elderly (!) onset rheumatoid arthritis in May and now take methotrexate, which has immune suppressing properties.  I see my arthritis doc at the end of this month and will see what he suggests. 

Hubs is fully covered with 2 doses of Moderna, but we need to note the date of his 2nd vax  and set a time to get the booster (he's 76, soon to be 77). 

[JuanitaBanana]

@Smee Thank you so much.  I Keep reminding myself that getting seriously ill from covid is much more likely than getting blood clots from the vaccine and I'm usually a very logical person but health anxiety is crazy. Let me know how everything goes today! Big hugs! 

@Someone Out There @Smash! Thank you gor your words! It makes me feel better to know I'm crazy to be worried. I have a problem trusting doctors and our health system is not the best but you are right, getting the vaccine is the best thing to do right now if I want to stay healthy. 

I wish I hadn't researched the vaccine so much! It would have been easier to just get the shot and not overthink everything! 

[nokidsmom]

Mr. No and I have been fully vaxed since beginning of May  Mr. No might qualify for third dose soon assuming if they roll out the third doses like they did last time (immunocompromised, health care workers, etc.)   I am worried about waning immunity going into fall / winter but right now, we think we are good as we are masking up inside (we never stopped), socially distancing, going back to online grocery ordering, all the precautions we took earlier.  We had planned to attend a local county fair this year and decided not to go.  Nixed taking a trip to Florida to see relatives as one of them, who works in an ER, told us it's bad and not that safe to come. 

It seems our vaccine "stress test" went OK.   Two weeks ago, we had to attend Mr. No's father's funeral and yes, we were concerned because we were going to be around a lot of (willfully) unvaccinated family for an entire day.   We did mask up though had to remove masks at the luncheon.  We monitored ourselves in the days after and I did not go into the office as a precaution.   So got through that but I have another funeral to attend on Monday and might just make a quick appearance this time. 

 

[Alisamer]

Eight months out from the second dose will be December, for me, so I'm going to assume unless guidance changes that I'll be getting a booster then. I haven't checked in with my uncle recently - he was in the Pfizer trial, so I'd like to see what if any guidance he's gotten from the people running the trial. 

I am disappointed that this mess had seemed to be improving, and then is suddenly getting worse again. My family is planning a weeklong beach trip labor day week. We're still going to go, unless one of us gets sick. We just might be spending all the time on the beach and in the house instead of going out in the evenings like we prefer. It'll still be a nice break.

I recently heard from some friends who live in Peru. They had come back to the US early in the summer for a long visit with their family here, and luckily were able to get vaccinated while here because apparently they still don't qualify in Peru. So I'm glad they were able to get that, but sad that apparently Peru hasn't started vaccinating younger adults yet.

[CTRLZero]

Darn it, our neighbors have breakthrough Covid.  [names changed]. Viola started experiencing flulike symptoms and is on the mend after suffering for four days or so.  Vincent was fine and tested negative, then last night he suddenly collapsed and woke up in the hospital!  He’s stabilized and they sent him home.  We were notified this morning and volunteered to pick up an oxygen monitor for him.  This is so freaking scary.