Bro Gary Hawkins 18: Bro In My State...State of the Bro

[smittykins]

16 hours ago, Antipatriarch said:

Oh lawdy... anyone else hear the "African drums" trope growing up? "I heard a missionary to Africa tell how he played some rock music once, and the local believers told him it had the same drum pattern used by witch doctors / shamans / whatever in their Satanic rituals!"

I’ve definitely heard the “Rock music is based on African jungle rhythms” trope.

[thoughtful]

Gary seems to think that God sent . . . well, could be Hurricane Ida, could be something wrong with his vehicle - with Gary, who knows?

Spoiler

Becky changed her Facebook cover photo last week - Jesus, Tupperware; divided loyalties?

Spoiler

 

[thoughtful]

Gary, the only shortage I see is of a Wednesday night video. Didn't you get to preach "GOD word" anywhere tonight?

[thoughtful]

Gary is guilty.

Spoiler

Gary surpasses all medical and scientific knowledge:

Spoiler

 

[thoughtful]

Oh, look - Gary wants attention during a slow week.

[Xan]

Gary's going to be preaching this week.

I looked up the church and they're on Facebook too.  They are definitely Gary's kind of people.

Spoiler

 

[CTRLZero]

42 minutes ago, Xan said:

They are definitely Gary's kind of people.

Am I interpreting this correctly - the Bethel poster tells parents not to send their children to “God-rejecting, Bible-hating public schools,” but he apparently works as a bus driver and, presumably, is paid by the school system?   If so, yep, Gary’s kind of people. 

[Xan]

21 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

Am I interpreting this correctly - the Bethel poster tells parents not to send their children to “God-rejecting, Bible-hating public schools,” but he apparently works as a bus driver and, presumably, is paid by the school system?   If so, yep, Gary’s kind of people. 

I guess it's possible he works for a private school but I think it's more likely it's the public school system.  I had the same reaction.  I guess the school system is good enough for him to collect a paycheck but not good enough to educate kids from his church.  

[thoughtful]

Several of Gary's relatives work for a public school system, if I remember correctly.

I wonder if the vacation bible school was in Groton again, and if Gary had to wear the t-shirt and be a character in a biblical story again, as he did last year.

 

Gary posted:

Quote

Bethel Independence Baptist church Kings Ferry NY

It's "Independent" and "King Ferry," but, hey, details, details.

I think he's been there before - I remember his insisting on putting the "s" on "King." Just like verses and Revelations.

ETA - I found where our posts about Gary's previous visit here start:

And I see that, like a fool, I went with "Kings" instead of "King," at first, myself. I guess that was before I learned to check for the real spelling of any proper noun before copying Gary's.

Edited September 4, 2021 by thoughtful

[thoughtful]

I found the Heritage Baptist VBS videos from this past week. It looks like Gary was left out of the skits - Jacob did them.

I think they did it in the evening - school must have started there.

Details to follow, but there are four videos on the church's Facebook page, if anyone wants to check them out.

https://www.facebook.com/Heritage-Baptist-Church-163658627028893/

Edited September 4, 2021 by thoughtful
found another video

[Ozlsn]

8 hours ago, CTRLZero said:

Am I interpreting this correctly - the Bethel poster tells parents not to send their children to “God-rejecting, Bible-hating public schools,” but he apparently works as a bus driver and, presumably, is paid by the school system?   If so, yep, Gary’s kind of people. 

And works "on grounds" - totally hypocritical. Glad they got to do the training, even if it doesn't cause them to think it at least makes them easier to fire when they inevitably say something.

[thoughtful]

A few new posts from Gary.

Sticketh? Really?

Spoiler

Valerie is getting baptized.

Spoiler

It's the LORD day.

Spoiler

 

[postscript]

“Sticketh” makes me think of one of the other meanings of the verb “to stick,” such as “sticketh a pole up his ass.” Something Gary and his preacher friends are guilty of from time to time. 

[thoughtful]

I went back to watch the vacation bible school session at Heritage Baptist in Groton NY, August 30.

Jacob is on the dais, with another man (not the pastor, but I don't know who it is - he speaks in a condescending, talking-down-to-kids voice throughout), holding a fake barbell and finishing the story of Samson. He's playing the part of Samson's best friend, it seems, who didn't even know the secret of Samson's hair. At this point in the story, Samson had lost all of his strength.

Man: "The enemy came, and tell 'em what happened to his eyes."
Jacob: "The enemy poked his eyes out."
Sounds of gasps - mostly adults faking shock to try to interest kids, I think, but there could be some real kid reactions.
Man: "Can you imagine? And then - can you tell them what he did when he was walking around in circles with no eyes to be able to see?"

Jacob and the man go on to talk about Samson turning the millstone. The man walks around in a circle to demonstrate, then tells the children that Samson had to do that "because of choices that he made. Tonight - "

Jacob tries to balance the fake barbell on his fingers, drops it, and picks it up, with an embarrassed grimace/smile towards the camera.

The man continues, "We're going to talk about choices - look at me - choices that we make."

He solicits a round of applause for Jacob, and pretends Jacob's handshake hurts him (I guess Jacob's character and Samson were body-building buddies, which strikes me as defeating the whole God-made-him-strong part of the story, but whatever - maybe the friend had to work out, but Samson didn't).

Jacob whispers in his ear. The man whispers back and points. As Jacob runs off, the man says something like "Yes sir, we have a restroom in there" in a stage whisper. The audience laughs - we mostly hear adult men laughing.

Why? Why the fuck is it always necessary to humiliate people, especially teens and women?

The man drags over a small table, picks up a phone on a stand, says "OK, 7:53," and takes a while to punch in something on it. Then he says he will talk about choices for about 10 minutes.

I guess the idea of one of these long-winded creeps setting an alarm so he doesn't go on for too long when talking to kids is a good idea, but damn.

He says, "Now, when I teach, I like everybody to pay attention, because we're gonna learn something here."

So do I, fella - that's why I usually catch students' attention naturally, with an activity or question. Oh wait, it seems he does have a question - maybe.

"I wanna see whether the boys or girls can answer this the best. Now I worked with the Bible verses, so I know the girls are smart. But I want you to memorize, this is the main thing I want you all to learn. OK, willya look at me?"

You're losing them, dude. Also, girls versus boys is stupid and sexist. Oh, that's right - you guys like stupid and sexist. And, you're not making more sense than Gary would.

"Choices matter. Can you say that?"

He goes around, making various children and adults in the audience (including Gary, who he calls on as "evangelist") say it.

Well, it's interactive, at least. But again, damn, that's some shitty teaching.

He goes on to tell them that Samson had all kinds of opportunities, including parents who loved him, taught him about God, and prayed for him daily. God chose him to be the strongest man in the world. But Samson was not grateful, and made bad choices - disrespecting his Mom and Dad.

He tells them they should obey their parents (um, not the same as respecting them, dude), and asks them to repeat, "Sure, I would be glad to," which is what they are supposed to say when asked to clean their rooms. He insists they say it with a smile.

Again, he goes around to individuals, including Gary (does anyone here think Gary has ever cleaned a room, or complied with others' requests cheerfully?).

Task 1 complete - teach children to lie, and end a sentence with a preposition. Good job, fella.

Then, Samson fell in love with someone who was beautiful, but "Mom and Dad said 'No, because she's not a Christian lady. And God does not want us to marry people that are not Christians.'"

I guess the fact that there was no such thing as a Christian lady at that time is moot, to him.

He tells them that, during their engagement, "the man that was going to be best man at his wedding married the woman that he was in lohhhhvvvvvve with. I mean, he lllllloved her."

Wait - was that the character Jacob was playing?

Samson fell in love with another woman, named Delilah, who was also beautiful. "I'm sure she had long black flowing hair, olive kind of skin collar, and she told Samson, 'Oh I lohuhhhhve you!'"

"Collar" is color - this man's accent is not remotely like Gary's, and yet . . .

He runs at them and growls when telling them about Samson and the lion. "In Africa one time, I was in the cage with two lions." He veers off a bit, to talk about the lions and his not being as brave as Daniel.

Anyway, the Holy Spirit of God gave Samson strength to kill the lion. Later he made another bad choice, to touch the dead body of the lion because it had honey in it.

He goes on to tell the rest of the haircut story (mistakenly saying that Delilah did it herself - he'd never win the bar bet in Fitzwilly!).

At this point, the camera is in a spot where we can see several kids in the front row. At this point, they seem to be tuned in - not too squirmy.

He asks a worried-looking Jacob to come up to play the part of Samson, takes his arm, and says he's going to show them what the Philistines did to Samson (remember, he already told them that they plucked his eyes out). He says he doesn't know what they used, and throws in a "don't try this at home."

Then he acts out stabbing Jacob's eyes with an imaginary knife, describes the gore a bit, then says that Samson, despite being the strongest man in the world, who could defeat lions and Philistines, "couldn't even - defeat - what shoulda been in his heart for God."

From what he says next, I think he means that Samson couldn't defeat his selfishness. But way to screw up the main point there, guy.

He uses Jacob like a puppet, moving him around in circles to imitate Samson at the millstone:

Spoiler

 

He lets go, and Jacob keeps walking - the guy has put him on a path that takes him over the pastor's wheelchair ramp. He tells Jacob to keep going around, attempts a joke-like thing, telling Jacob not to trip over anybody, because he doesn't want to take him to the hospital, then sticking out his leg like he was going to trip him.

Poor Jacob keeps going around and around, as the man talks about Samson praying for his strength back. We hear music (remember the phone alarm?), and the man says "That's my time to stop. I never pay attention to it. Keep goin'."

But he was just "joking" about Jacob continuing in circles, of course. He redirects Jacob to act out pushing down the pillars ( I think - he just sends him out of camera range).

"You know what God did? God allowed him to kill more people at this time -  than he did in all this time." He claps his hands for attention. "Young people, look at me now! Look at me! God, because He loves us, and it what we call a gracious God, gave him another opportunity to do something special."

He tells them that, now, their lives are not messed up. They have the opportunity to live for God, but they could "mess it up" with bad choices.

I would have loved it if one of the kids had asked how many people God would let them kill if they made good choices, but it's probably just as well, since their parents tend to beat them for perceived "fresh talk."

He throws in a quick thank you for Jacob, then tells them to bow their heads and close their eyes. He asks if they are obedient to Mom and Dad, or disobey and dishonor, like Samson. He tells them to raise their hands if they think "I'm a pretty good kid, but I'm not the type of child that I need to be at home."

He admits he was sometimes mischievous as a child, too.

He goes on and on about Mom and Dad wanting the best for them, and whether they will make the choice to go to Heaven, etc. Some kids have opened their eyes, of course, and he reminds them that he still wants eyes closed and heads bowed because "we only have a few minutes here."

The prolonged and sloppy use of closed eyes is yet another sign that "Missionary Jim" (he referred to himself in the third person during this last blahblahblah) is a crappy teacher.

I use eyes-closed all the time, just to get students to focus on sound and touch for a short rep of something in a music lesson. Lots of people are not comfortable with their eyes closed, and it is usually only useful with kids for a very brief time, focused on a specific thing.

Not to mention that he is past his time, and kids are often acutely aware of that, too, even if the teacher didn't set an alarm. Now some discomfort is evident in the kids we can see.

He asks them to raise their hands if they're not sure they are going to Heaven, but want to make that decision tonight. He warns them not to raise their hands just because someone else does (didn't you tell them to close their eyes, shithead?). He stands and waits and counts one hand, then two, saying "Anybody else?" a few times.

Clear discomfort is now evident in all of the children we can see - boredom, guilt, shame, physical discomfort from hard chairs for 16 minutes with no movement break, some or all of the above - who knows?

Finally, he prays. "Our Father in Heaven, I hope some, right now, are praying, and that they would pray first of all, Lord, if they're not saved, that they would stand to their feet, now, we'll have someone take them to the side and show them out of the bible, exactly what - what Miss ________ " (someone he mentioned earlier that had talked to them already about being saved, I think) "had to say. So, if you're here tonight, and you raised your hand, I want you to stand, if you would, if you're a boy, we'll have a man take you, if you're a lady, a young lady, we'll have one of our ladies take you."

It sounds like someone takes out the kids with their hands raised (I wonder if and when they tell them to open their eyes). He reminds the remaining kids (assuming the rest of them are saved, I guess), that some of them admitted that "there were some things that were not right between you and your parents."

He asks them to bow their heads and close their eyes. You never told them to pick their heads and open their eyes, idiot!

He tells them to pray to be better children to their parents, and to say "Sure, I would be glad to" when asked to do things, He also asks them to pray "God, help me to make the right choices in my life."

Every time I do one of these recaps, I tell myself I will make it brief if there is nothing outstandingly horrible or funny. And they almost always end up very long, because these people are just that heinous.

I don't expect everyone in the world to think like a teacher or have the skills needed to work with kids. But, although I'm not sure, I think this guy is someone they brought in to work with the children - I think it may be his specialty.

Since the message is manipulative, full of guilt and magical thinking, I guess I should be glad he's so bad at it. I just hope that the guilt and shame didn't get through despite his lack of technique.

And I hope Jacob didn't get beaten or scolded for playing with the barbell.

Anyway, the guy ends by asking Gary to lead them in prayer.

Talk about bad choices.

Gary is brief, quiet, and not too bad, considering that he's Gary. He does slip in a "world's in a mess," though.

Edited September 5, 2021 by thoughtful
grammar - it's a thing

[postscript]

Acting out Samson’s eye-gouging? Way to traumatize those kids for life, dude. And poor Jacob is doubly cursed by having to act as supporting cast. 

My recollection of the story of Samson is pretty sketchy, but I don’t recall the part about disrespecting his parents. Not that this version has anything to do with any telling of Samson I can recall. 

Perhaps Gary will be inspired to use Samson in his upcoming sermons? At least it would be a change from his favorite stories of Job and Lazarus. 

[thoughtful]

 

59 minutes ago, postscript said:

My recollection of the story of Samson is pretty sketchy, but I don’t recall the part about disrespecting his parents.

I had to look it up. This guy screwed up some parts of the story.

Samson had not yet met Delilah when he killed the lion. He and the first woman did get married, but then she was given to a friend. I don't think they had "best men" at weddings in those days. I think the story of the first wife is to show what a sucker Samson was when a woman pleaded with him to tell a secret or the answer to a riddle.

But, he did "disrespect" his parents in insisting on marrying her. Of course, his choosing this first woman was actually God's plan, so . . .

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges+14&version=KJV

I need the wise women of FJ to tell me whether I have disrespected my parent.

I got a grocery order the other day with some things I thought my mother would want for Rosh Hashanah. One item was a package of 2 Gabila's kasha knishes:

 

Spoiler

 

I am curious enough about a kasha knish (never had one, but I do love kasha) that I kept one for me. I put it on a plate in the fridge, and took the other upstairs, with the packaging, for her.

So, she had the cooking/reheating directions, and just called me on the phone to read them to me. I remembered that a long-gone aunt of mine used to refer  to a certain body part as her "knish" (which I only know from hearing her refer to her gynecologist as her "knish doctor" when I was a teen). I hoped that my mother remembered this bit of slang from our past.

As I was getting a pencil to write down the details, I told her I thought it was pretty strange for a woman in her 60s to have to ask her mother, a woman in her 90s, what to do with her knish. Shouldn't we have covered this years ago?

After she stopped laughing enough to tell me how to (you should pardon the expression) heat up my knish (more to laugh at, since the packaging included unclear directions about how to know when it was hot enough - one of those "20-30 minutes in an oven/2-3 minutes in a microwaved/until desired temperature is reached" things), we exchanged wishes to "enjoy your knish," which set her off laughing again.

Close your eyes, bow your heads, and raise your hand if you think that was disrespectful.

😁

Edited September 5, 2021 by thoughtful
knish riffles

[thoughtful]

Gary is shitty - again. I have no idea what Power Max is talking about, but I think he's advertising something. Just another thing that pops up unbidden on Gary's phone, I guess.

Spoiler

The original post from Kramm, who posts lots of filthy shit:

https://www.facebook.com/jim.kramm.7/posts/4340378159334181

ETA - Kramm is also where Gary borrowed his "qualified" post:

https://www.facebook.com/jim.kramm.7/posts/4378942405477756

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by thoughtful

[thoughtful]

On to vacation bible school, Heritage Baptist in Groton NY, August 31.

When the video starts, Jacob is acting out the story of the Mighty Men of David, who brought him water, brandishing plastic swords, then a crossbow. I'm not sure if he's supposed to be David, one of the men, or someone else.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Samuel+23%3A8-20&version=KJV

Missionary Jim, who seems to like stories about Philistines getting killed, asks him what the qualifications for a Mighty Man were, and Jacob says (and shows) that they had to be "ambidextrious," and says it means to be able to use both arms. Not bad - maybe Becky can clean up the pronunciation and details.

Of course, that doesn't seem to be in the bible, as far as I can tell. Watch out, Jacob - your father will chide you for being unbiblical.

The Mighty Men also had to be able to "throw rocks really good, and throw spears really good. Stuff like that."

Work on those adverbs, Becky!

Jim says they have 11 boys and 11 girls there. He asks Jacob what he can teach them about being the very best of the very best. Jacob says "they gotta be chosen, uh - few other things."

Jim prompts him, saying that they had great skills. You might have a difficult task, there, Jim - Jacob is being raised by a man who thinks that claiming that God chose him is all he needs to go out and take money, food, shelter and vehicles from others.

Jim also reminds him that they were very loyal. I see a theme coming on. He tells Jacob and another boy who was up there with him that their Mommies are calling, and they run off.

Even heroes of the Bible obey Mom, you see.

Ooooh, wait - if that's a shtick this guy uses often, maybe the "strongman" asking where the bathroom was, on the previous night, was a gag Jacob was in on, and he was still in character. I sure hope so.

Jim reads 1 Samuel 22:2, and explains some of it as he goes along, in his exaggerated "I am talking to kids now" voice.

KJV: And every one that was in distress, and every one that was in debt, and every one that was discontented, gathered themselves unto him; and he became a captain over them: and there were with him about four hundred men.
Missionary Jim Version: And every one - now, we're talking about the Mighty Men of David -  the Mighty Men of David. And every one that was in distress, and every one  was in debt - that means they  owed a lohhht of money to different people, and they didn't pay their bills - and every one that was discontented, they gathered themselves unto David; and David became a captain over them: and they were with him about four hundred men.

He prays.

He pits the boys against the girls to see who will listen best, and asks them to repeat "I matter to God, and God can use me."

They start echoing when he's only said the first part - another teacher skill missing; making it clear when it's their turn to do something. He has them say it with him several times, but he wants a particular stress, making a sing-song, extended vowel sound on "and," which is not how he said it when he modeled it for them.

He asks for a volunteer girl to say it - she says it, and he asks if she believes it. She says yes. Then he has a boy say it. Poor kid is littler, didn't get enough reps to memorize it, and needs to be coached through almost every word.

Another teacher-skill fail for Missionary Jim.

He tells them that the Mighty Men didn't seem like they'd do great things, at first. "These are what we would call men of outcast."

Well, maybe you would, but that is what I would call words of not a sentence.

He says he doesn't write people off. "I don't say 'she can't be used of God because she looks like a clown.'"

He points to someone - I hope that was prearranged, or that someone is actually dressed as a clown! In any case, I guess it means there's hope for Jill Rodrigues.

He points to others and says he wouldn't write them off because they are shy, or afraid to speak in public. Not pointing (small mercy!) he says he wouldn't write one of them off if everybody makes fun of them. Then, of course, he tells them that he was the one that everyone bullied when he was a kid.

He says he got an F in public speaking, had to repeat, then got a D minus. He goes on an on about how bad he was at speaking and preaching. But God can use anybody who loves God, is loyal to God, committed to God, and living right for God.

He says there could be another Jack Hyles or Susanna Wesley in that room. He blahblahblahs for a while about leaders needing loyal people to help them do great things, then claps his hands a bunch of times and says "Now young people I want you to look at me."

"The heroes tonight are not the LeBron Jameses and the baseball players, and the soccer players."

The real heroes are those who live for God. He blahblahblahs about the 30  Mighty Men - well, first there were 37, but seven died, so then there were 30. He mentions that Bathsheba's husband was one of them, and he was killed. Are you planning to tell the rest of that story to the kids, Jim?

"But I want you to learn that, if you're that little child, that's made fun of in school, I want you ________ (? "to understand," maybe?), Jesus Christ loves you. Look at me." CLAPCLAPCLAPCLAP "Jesus loves you."

God is looking for mighty young ladies and men. He tells them he's 67 and could die soon, or live to be 90. God needs the young people to become Mighty Men who will take the place of people like their pastor, and ladies that are going to raise their families and teach their children about God.

He wants to tell them about five of the 30  Mighty Men, and reminds them again that first there were 37, but seven died, so then there were 30.

He says that, as Christians, they have to say to God "I can't, but you can - say it with me now. I can't, but God can. I can't, but God can."

Again, if you want a rote echo, actually say what you want them to say! Or maybe give up the rote echoes altogether.

He is now 15 minutes in to a presentation for children, still hasn't gotten to the point, and is repeating himself. I'm giving him an F in public speaking.

OK, on to the five men. Jocheb Basshebeth was the first. Ooooh, I wonder what Gary thinks. That's not what he's called in the KJV. But then, Gary would just skip all of the names when he read this passage, so he might not notice.

Jocheb killed 800 enemy soldiers with a spear.

Not all at once, I presume. That would be some kabob.

Next, Eleazar, who stayed and fought when everyone else had retreated. "God needs mighty men that's willing to say 'I'm willing to stand alone if I have to.' California, they're saying 'Oh, we're goingta burn the Bibles, we don't - we're gonna have all the Bibles."

Citation needed. Anyway, they need mighty men who will bravely keep, read and memorize their Bibles.

"Young people, God needs you, in your school, at your age, right now to stand for Him." He challenges them to "become a mighty soul-winner for God in your school this year."

He tells a story of a 16-year-old girl who came to him and asked him to teach her how to be a soul-winner. He showed her, and the next day, she led 19 people to Christ - all by herself!

Spoiler

You have to get into the right army, the army of God. Last night, one little girl understood that.

Finally, he remembers that he's supposed to listing five Mighty Men. Next is Shamma, who blahblahblah - oh, he went and got water from the well in Bethlehem, with two other guys, for David, who wasn't actually asking for it, just reminiscing about his childhood and the sweet well water.

And I guess he realizes he's running out of time, and leaves it at three Mighty Men.

But he goes on for another eight minutes, telling them they are either in God's army or the devil's army.

In his list of things they might have done wrong, he says they might have disobeyed their parents by not stopping a video game when asked, then, in hushed tones, "In China, just last week, they passed a law that said that a child can only play video games for 4 hours a week because of what it does to their eyes. A Communist country."

And he leaves it at that. So, dude, your point would be?

He tells them to pray for Jesus to forgive their sins, and help them be mighty men and women, and "may it start with this new school year."

He asks for heads bowed and eyes closed again (but just kids, not adults). He says he wants the kids' eyes closed so they won't feel any pressure to do anything because their "buddy" did. "This is personal."

Yeah, but you just told them the adults are watching. No pressure.

Again, he asks whoever wants to join Jesus' army to raise their hands. He tells them he got one, and sends her (I assume it's a girl) off with his wife. He tells the rest that, if they are in God's army, they mustn't be AWOL.

Even vacuuming the carpet or straightening the chairs in children's church is serving God. But he wants to challenge them to take gospel tracts and hand them out to neighbors and at school. He reminds them to keep their eyes closed, and raise their hands if they want tracts.

Pastor Stout, from somewhere in the room, prays almost inaudibly.

If tracts are handed out or they are ever asked to open their eyes again, I didn't hear it.

Jim asks what is the main idea tonight. Nobody remembers. A girl tries to say something about being a mighty warrior, and he interrupts her to coach her to say "I am important to God, and God can use my life."

Well, even if they remembered that idea from 25 minutes or so ago, that's not what you had them repeat, idiot - it was "I matter to God, and God can use me."

Rote repetition is not a great way to learn, but, if you're going to do it, at least do it well and be fair to the poor kids.

As he goes around the room, making kids and adults say "I am important to God, and God can use my life," (including Gary!), it morphs into "I am important to God, and God can use me." He doesn't seem to notice.

Oh, and we find out that someone was, indeed, dressed as a clown, since she comes to the front. Glad to know that wasn't someone in their own clothes he was talking to.

Spoiler

 

She talks a bit about handing out prizes, then a girl (looks pre-teenish) comes up behind her, with the hood of her hoodie up, looking distressed, and a boy points her out to the clown.

This seems to be a follow-up to a sketch we didn't see - something about a time machine. The child claims she was attacked by a pack of wild avocado toast, and she will never eat it again. She flips down the hood, and it looks like she's purposely messed up her hair. Offered a chance to go back in the time machine, she says "I'm good!" and flees. She's adorable - too bad she's stuck in this church.

After this, we only see the empty dais, but hear what's going on.

A girl gets a prize for sitting still "for as little as she is." Then we hear the clown say "What?" in a jokingly exasperated voice. Gary is heard claiming he was "real good" and didn't talk. She chides him, saying that she is giving out the girl prizes now, and that he's a boy, and to ask his wife if he doesn't understand that.

Much laughter.

Gary: "Quit harassin' me - ah've done nothin' wrong."

We hear a loud slap. I have no idea if it's her clapping her own hands, Gary clapping his, or what.

Gary (yelling): Ah know ah'm a man!"
Clown: "I love bein' harassed."
Gary: "Harassed? Who's harassin' you? __________ (? maybe "you're harassin' me")"

I doubt any of this was planned - my guess is that Gary didn't want the humiliation of actually being in the skits this year, and so insisted Jacob do it, but eventually started itching to be the center of attention.

The kids keep getting riled up by all of this, and adults keep shushing them.

The clown goes on to hand out the other girl prize, then the boy prizes. The first one goes to a boy who, she says, had a hard time sitting still and keeping his mouth shut the previous night, but did a much better job tonight.

A bunch of kids start calling out that they've been quiet and good, too - mostly in joking voices. Gee, I wonder where they got that idea.

They cheer and applaud for the kids who got the prizes.

The clown says something about Mikey not moving a muscle. Jacob asks how Mikey could not move a muscle and ? (I can't figure it out). Clown says she meant muscles she can see, and jokes about putting Jacob through the time machine as she reaches to turn off the video.

https://www.facebook.com/163658627028893/videos/251792133478478

Next time, VBS during Ida! I glanced at the video, enough to see that all appears dry, so I guess the church wasn't affected.

Edited September 6, 2021 by thoughtful
riffle

[postscript]

So, the Mighty Men (that explains where the Bontragers got the name for their camp) were in distress and in debt? Essentially a bunch of Bronze Age outlaws, arms with spears and rocks (making them sound more Stone Age), led by David as Robin Hood? Apparently the religious aspect makes the killing and plundering okay. Sounds like a justification for terrorism. 

Another Bible story for Gary to steal for his sermons. Among these guys, it’s like a vaudeville comedian mining other acts for material. I can’t help wishing Gary would steal one of these. They have the requisite elements of gore and misfortune necessary to appeal to him, and they would be a change from stinking Lazarus. 

[Xan]

9 hours ago, thoughtful said:

He tells them that the Mighty Men didn't seem like they'd do great things, at first. "These are what we would call men of outcast."

Well, maybe you would, but that is what I would call words of not a sentence.

 

That line made me laugh out loud.

This one did too:  

Jocheb killed 800 enemy soldiers with a spear.

Not all at once, I presume. That would be some kabob.

So, this man is telling the kids to pass out tracts at school?  They can't do that.  I understand that he and Gary want martyrs for Christ but can't they just start with adults?

And I don't think the "Mighty Men" theme was the way to go with a group of school children.  It's more of that "be warriors for Christ" stuff that turns a peaceful religion into a military movement.  (Also, now I've got the theme to "Mighty Mouse" stuck in my head.)

[postscript]

I meant to comment on the tracts at school. First, aren’t the majority of these kids homeschooled? If so, who are they passing out tracts to? Their siblings? If not, any decent public school would shut down the tract-passing or limit it to specific times and locations. Separation of church and state, y’all. 

The Mighty Men slogan has me thinking of the cheer that was popular when I was in high school - “We are the (MASCOT), the mighty, mighty (MASCOT), say hey! Hey! Hey!”

[Four is Enough]

11 minutes ago, postscript said:

The Mighty Men slogan has me thinking of the cheer that was popular when I was in high school - “We are the (MASCOT), the mighty, mighty (MASCOT), say hey! Hey! Hey!”

Everywhere we go, people want to know, who we are, so we tell them!!

Lather, rinse, repeat...

[thoughtful]

1 hour ago, postscript said:

So, the Mighty Men (that explains where the Bontragers got the name for their camp) were in distress and in debt? Essentially a bunch of Bronze Age outlaws, arms with spears and rocks

Yep. He used it to make the point that God will use people in whom humans would not see any value.

But, since the task at hand was killing lots of Philistines, it doesn't seem like a very positive lesson to me, or useful in the modern world.

And, as you point out,  it doesn't seem like such a stretch, either - a bunch of desperate guys who were in deep trouble seems like the perfect choice to create a violent group with a charismatic leader.

15 minutes ago, postscript said:

I meant to comment on the tracts at school. First, aren’t the majority of these kids homeschooled? If so, who are they passing out tracts to? Their siblings? If not, any decent public school would shut down the tract-passing or limit it to specific times and locations. Separation of church and state, y’all. 

I don't think we know any actual statistics on how many of them homeschool. I don't even have a general idea of the proportion who do. I imagine many of these people can't afford to homeschool - both parents may need to work.

Also, we don't know how many of the families were new to the church and not immersed in the mindset yet. I think a lot of them use VBS to pull in new people.

Also, despite being up north, if the town is generally conservative, the schools may not be teaching all of those horrible liberal things these people fear, and may be even be fine with kids handing out tracts.

I'm not sure they could shut it down based on the separation of church and state, even if they understand it and want to. Things like teachers leading prayer, official prayer at events, or a God-based slogan are not OK - it can't come from the institution.

The individual prayers of kids, generated by the kids themselves, are fine. I'm not sure where handing out tracts would fit in. I found this, which gives some insight:

https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/first-amendment-center/topics/freedom-of-religion/religious-liberty-in-public-schools/distributing-religious-literature/

Quote

Students generally have a right to distribute religious material in public schools. However, school officials may apply reasonable time, place and manner restrictions as long as the restrictions are narrowly tailored to achieve the school’s educational objectives.

In some cases involving distribution of religious material by students, plaintiffs have argued that such limitations hinder their free-speech rights under the First Amendment. Yet most courts have upheld these restrictions, as did the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Hedges v. Wauconda Community Unit School District, 9 F.3d 1295, in 1993. The court ruled that the junior high school in that case, as a limited public forum, could implement a policy limiting when and how students could pass out written materials, but only so long as those restrictions were not “arbitrary or whimsical.” An example of reasonable restrictions, the court said, may include setting up a special table for distribution and limiting the times when items may be distributed.

Following the Hedges case, the 7th Circuit looked at a similar policy in Muller by Muller v. Jefferson Lighthouse School, 98 F.3d 1530, in 1996. The court there upheld a restriction requiring prior approval of nonschool materials
before they could be distributed to students — so long as that approval was not granted solely on the religious nature of the material. The court questioned whether the restriction was reasonable or not, considered in light of the
grade-school environment, noting that “an elementary school under its custodial responsibilities may restrict such speech that could crush a child’s sense of self-worth.” A federal district court in Massachusetts went further, holding
that such restrictions need to contain safeguards such as a requirement that school administrators review submitted material in a reasonably short time and that such reviews “must contain narrow, objective, and reasonable standards.”
Westfield High Sch. L.I.F.E. Club v. Westfield, 249 F.Supp.2d 98, 125.

However, since schools are generally considered limited public forums, and because First Amendment rights of students are not as extensive as or equal to those of adults, schools may prohibit distribution of certain types of
literature altogether. Those include materials that:

Would likely cause substantial disruption of the operation of the school
(such as literature using fighting words or other inflammatory language).

Violate the rights of others (e.g., that is libelous, that invades privacy
of others or infringes a copyright).

Are obscene, lewd or sexually explicit.

Advertise products that are illegal for minors (such as alcohol).

Students would reasonably believe to be sponsored or endorsed by the
school.

Additionally, the U.S. Department of Education has issued general guidelines
regarding the distribution of religious material:

“Students have a right to distribute religious literature to their schoolmates on the same terms as they are permitted to distribute other literature that is unrelated to school curriculum or activities. Schools may impose the same reasonable time, place, and manner or other constitutional restrictions on distribution of religious literature as they do on nonschool literature generally, but they may not single out religious literature for special regulation.”

The cases and administrative guidelines all hold one thing: Religious literature cannot be singled out for regulations. The federal district court in Johnston-Loehner v. O’Brien, 859 F.Supp. 575 (M.D. Fla. 1994) made this explicitly clear by proclaiming that “a ban on all student religious speech clearly inhibits religion,” thus violating the prong of the establishment clause forbidding the government from obstructing religion. Consequently, in that case, the school’s policy requiring an elementary school principal to give prior approval to nonschool materials, where the principal used the policy to screen out and prohibit religious materials, was found to be unconstitutional, both on its face and as applied to the plaintiff.

Courts are less tolerant of school restrictions when it comes to high school students. In such cases, the rule from Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School Dist., 393 U.S. 503, usually prevails, preserving the First Amendment rights of students regardless of whether or to what extent the school is a public forum. In such cases, courts focus on the importance of preparing high school students to be productive citizens, thereby allowing them to “develop the ability to understand and comment on the society in which they live and to develop their own sets of
values and beliefs,” as the federal district court in Colorado stated in Rivera v. East Otero School Dist R-1, 721 F.Supp. 1189, 1194. Going even further, a federal district court in Pennsylvania categorically denied any argument that a ban on religious or political material is necessary to preserve an educational environment in a secondary school. (See Slotterback by Slotterback v. Interboro School Dist., 766 F.Supp. 280.)

However, even when dealing with high schools, courts will uphold reasonable time, place and manner restrictions, so long as those restrictions are applied equally to all written material.

 

[Xan]

20 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Gary is shitty - again. I have no idea what Power Max is talking about, but I think he's advertising something. Just another thing that pops up unbidden on Gary's phone, I guess.

  Hide contents

 

This post of Gary's has been bothering me.  It occurred to me today that I wonder what benefit Gary thinks he got from being beaten.  After all, he obviously didn't learn the value of an education or the importance of being a reliable worker.  He didn't learn to be kind to others.  He didn't learn anything about being a good son.  We have seen how unimportant his parents are to him unless he's using his dad as an example of a preacher.  He didn't learn to be a good father or a responsible husband.  He takes offense at everything and has a permanent chip on his shoulder so he didn't learn to live and let live or to be able to let things go.  We've caught him in small lies so he didn't learn how important honesty is.  He takes (but doesn't give) and never has the right feelings of gratitude.

So, tell us, Gary -- what did you learn from all those beatings?

Edited September 6, 2021 by Xan

[thoughtful]

6 minutes ago, Xan said:

So, tell us, Gary -- what did you learn from all those beatings?

The "I turned out OK" myth is pretty powerful.

Although, I suspect that, in Gary's case, it's more like "I turned out totally amazing and wonderful (oh, yeah - I'm supposed to add something), but I'm just a sinner saved by Jesus, there's nothing good in me except Jesus, etc."