M Is for Mama 11: 10 Kids is 10 too Many for a Narcissistic, Disinterested Person

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

40 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

After reading Braggie for a number of years (5 children ago) a several things have stuck out:

• She complains more and more about how hard parenting is.
• She does less and less parenting, even to the smallest children
• She tells us more and more how unselfish she is and how she martyrs herself for her children.
• She is more and more selfish about her wants and isn't a martyr about anything At. All. 
• She tells us more and more how she really really really really really didn't/ doesn't want twins.
• She reminds us constantly Shiloh is an awful child.

The thing that sticks out the most is I believe she wants her twins to know how unhappy she is with them. How much she didn't want them.  How she sees them as a trial from God she must endure. How she didn't/ doesn't deserve how hard they have made her life.  I believe she wants them to feel guilty for their very existence. Guilty that they hurt her and made her unhappy. Why else make these feelings known where the twins can easily find them -- she wants them to read her lamenting.

I'm sure Braggie believes that heaping on the guilt will make the twins try to make up for their existence by being perfect children/ teens/ adults and do everything they can to make her happy. We all know that if Braggie ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. Problem is she's never happy.

I think her ranting will cause the 2 sets of twins to say screw you bitch and bounce from home as soon as they can.

I think her Shiloh ranting will end the same way as her twins tirades.

I'll just add this as a side note: From my first memories as a child my mother made it clear that "she didn't want so many damn kids anyway" (I was the youngest, 8 years after the 4th boy and apparently an oops). This continued throughout childhood, adolescence, and early adulthood. She was awful in other ways and I never remember liking her. She got meaner when I hit adolescence and loved to use public shaming as a weapon. She had four previous kids so you'd think she'd know what adolescents are like.

I avoided her at all costs and constantly found activities, sports, and jobs in order to be out of the house; I was pretty much home just to sleep.  By early adulthood (in therapy) I finally realized just how damaging and toxic she was to me. I always thought she was just an odd, mean bitch. I cut off all face-to-face ties when I was about 26 and never saw her again. I did not attend her funeral and never felt bad about it. I did talk to her on the phone occasionally but ended the call when the shaming started.

My point is, this scenario can be compared to Abby and her kids. At least my mom was transparent with her hatred. Abby is insidious and cloaks the dislike of motherhood / her kids with her hyper-Christian, martyr epistles. It will be even more confusing and difficult to unravel for these kids once reality strikes them. 

I took a lot of criticism from many people when I divorced my mother. Luckily I was determined, independent, and focused on reality and healing. I eventually began to have a good life after several years, so don't feel bad for me. One of the negative results of this childhood is never really feeling loved - by anyone. I have good friends and a good marriage, but I never feel it. Because of my maternal role model, I made a conscious decision not to have children. I was afraid I'd turn out like 'her' and fuck-up some other soul's life. I think it was a responsible decision and I have filled my life with animals to mother.

This has gotten too long, but I will not be surprised if these types of issues eventually materialize in some of Abby's kids.

[NQJasmine]

55 minutes ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

I'm inclined to think so. It's scary, though; how long were they unsupervised in order to get into the pantry, get their hands on the cereal boxes, get them open, and potentially figure out how to tip them to pour? Especially with more than one box/container? I use baby gates and closed doors (some with knob covers) in a small house, and I still get nervous and go looking if I lose sight or hearing of my kids for too long. 

I know my aunt and uncle couldn't turn their backs on their twin boys for 5 minutes. They got into trouble twice as fast as a single kid did and sometimes one distracted the parents while the other got up to mischief. They have all sorts of stories about leaving them in a playpen and finding them one room over, trying to pull down the fireplace shield just a minute later! Not saying Braggie is paying enough attention to them, but my aunt and uncle went prematurely grey with just the twins in the house. They (responsibly) chose not to have any more children even though they had orginally planned on have 3 or 4.

 

ETA: Just say your username and had to laugh - the NQ in mine stands for Not Quite!

Edited October 30, 2021 by NQJasmine

[JermajestyDuggar]

Braggie also doesn’t seem to baby proof anything. It’s another way she sets her toddlers up to get in trouble. I imagine all she does all day is scold the little ones. 

[SassyPants]

I know playpens are long out of fashion, but that’s where you put toddlers in order to safely get anything that requires turning your back or taking your eyes off the munchkins, done.

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I know playpens are long out of fashion, but that’s where you put toddlers in order to safely get anything that requires turning your back or taking your eyes off the munchkins, done.

They are still popular but nowadays, they are these big ass gate things. You just put them in the living room and that stay inside the big baby gate. They are ugly so you know Braggie would never use one. 

[feministxtian]

@So-Virgin-It-Hurts the mother was much like yours. Except, she was pissed that I was a girl, not a boy. She had a boy after me but he was born prematurely and didn't survive. Believe me, she made her displeasure quite clear...then when I had TWO happy, healthy little boys, right in a row, she lost her shit. She'd barely look at the boys. 

I did my duty as the only child, and celebrated like crazy when she died! 

[Ozlsn]

On 10/29/2021 at 8:01 AM, Smee said:

So hypocritical. The “seed of inadequacy and burdensome unwantedness” is well and truly planted in her kids the second they can read and look at her Instagram.

Long before that - I have no doubt it comes through clear and loud right now to her children.

On 10/30/2021 at 5:51 AM, danvillebelle said:

 b) those ONE YEAR OLD TWINS were left unsupervised and got into the pantry and started pouring.  Either scenario is bad.

This sounds likely... and it's surprising how quickly and quietly kids can do things when they want to. My toddler got into the pantry and happily pulled everything off the shelves that he could reach to make a tower. I was in the next room folding washing and didn't realise until he knocked a can over! Fortunately it was all cans on those shelves, and he couldn't climb at that stage. We made sure we put latches on that door after that.

3 hours ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

I'm inclined to think so. It's scary, though; how long were they unsupervised in order to get into the pantry, get their hands on the cereal boxes, get them open, and potentially figure out how to tip them to pour? Especially with more than one box/container? I use baby gates and closed doors (some with knob covers) in a small house, and I still get nervous and go looking if I lose sight or hearing of my kids for too long. 

Based on my experience, maybe 5 minutes?  I made quite a few "Oh damn, you can do that now" discoveries along the way - mostly we were ahead in the baby-proofing, but some things I swear they learned a new skill overnight and we hadn't realised something could be an issue - in the pantry case that he could manage to get the door open to start with!

[JermajestyDuggar]

I had an “oh shit you know how to do that” moment when my older son was 18 months and learned how to click a pen. Because he drew on the couch 🙄

Edited October 31, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[danvillebelle]

Our new grandson turned over by himself...at not quite 3 weeks old.  I am not shitting you; son and DIL flipped him to make sure it wasn't a fluke.  He immediately did it again.  It wasn't a fluke.  She sent me a video today of him turning over.  He can also lift his head and hold it up for quite a while during tummy time. I have a sneaking suspicion he's going to be one of those babies who is walking at 9-10 months and is going to give us all a run for our money!   

[JermajestyDuggar]

18 minutes ago, danvillebelle said:

Our new grandson turned over by himself...at not quite 3 weeks old.  I am not shitting you; son and DIL flipped him to make sure it wasn't a fluke.  He immediately did it again.  It wasn't a fluke.  She sent me a video today of him turning over.  He can also lift his head and hold it up for quite a while during tummy time. I have a sneaking suspicion he's going to be one of those babies who is walking at 9-10 months and is going to give us all a run for our money!   

Some babies are born much stronger than others. My older son moved all the time while in me. So much that it alarmed my OBGYN. She thought maybe he was in some sort of distress. I was like, “nope that’s normal.” When he came out he was surprisingly strong. Your grandson is probably the same way. And yes, he will probably be walking before he turns a year. Mine could stand, walk, and crawl early. He was kind of muscular for a baby. He is still quite muscular at age 9. 

[feministxtian]

The family room has gates and fencing all around it. But...itty-bitty is trying to climb over now. She takes her socks off and is figuring out that grabbing the vertical posts with her toes enables her to climb up. I won't say she's fearless but if she's not properly restrained in her high chair, she has been known to stand on the tray and jump off, occasionally head first. 

Some kids are naturally fearless and rather athletic, other kids aren't. Itty bitty is. She's still a tiny thing, a hair over 20 pounds, but she's strong as the proverbial ox. My DIL said she never thought a baby could be like itty bitty...I reminded her that itty bitty was 1/2 her daddy and he was a handful as a toddler, he hasn't changed much now, he's still a handful.

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

16 hours ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

I'm inclined to think so. It's scary, though; how long were they unsupervised in order to get into the pantry, get their hands on the cereal boxes, get them open, and potentially figure out how to tip them to pour? Especially with more than one box/container? I use baby gates and closed doors (some with knob covers) in a small house, and I still get nervous and go looking if I lose sight or hearing of my kids for too long. 

I agree, it's bonkers. I really hope none of the kids get hurt... You'd think she'd have baby gates but have we ever seen any?

[JermajestyDuggar]

28 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

I agree, it's bonkers. I really hope none of the kids get hurt... You'd think she'd have baby gates but have we ever seen any?

I’ve never seen them. I remember when one of her toddlers kept getting into the bathroom and spilling sink water everywhere. You would think she would do something about that after it happened a few times. 

[smittykins]

I wonder if she thinks she can “home-proof the child rather than childproof the home“?
 

 

[theotherelise]

14 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

Our new grandson turned over by himself...at not quite 3 weeks old.  I am not shitting you; son and DIL flipped him to make sure it wasn't a fluke.  He immediately did it again.  It wasn't a fluke.  She sent me a video today of him turning over.  He can also lift his head and hold it up for quite a while during tummy time. I have a sneaking suspicion he's going to be one of those babies who is walking at 9-10 months and is going to give us all a run for our money!   

My kiddo rolled really early, though not this early. But then he got really chunky and couldn’t roll over the way he had before lol. But yeah, he’s a wonderful explorer of all things high, out of reach, or dangerous. 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

1 hour ago, smittykins said:

I wonder if she thinks she can “home-proof the child rather than childproof the home“?
 

 

I don't recall her ever mentioning blanket training but you'd think she'd be the type. It's a really dumb and careless parenting style - have a cluttered house and untrained/unsupervised kids, complain, don't fix anything rinse, repeat...

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

I was just looking at Abbie's instagram and her post from Sunday, Oct 24 says she never planned a specific number but interpreted a Bible verse to"trust the Lord in all things" to include her fertility.

But she's also talking about using barrier methods to space out the kids and the most recent twins came "too early."

Sure, Jan.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, smittykins said:

I wonder if she thinks she can “home-proof the child rather than childproof the home“?
 

 

I think this is probably what she tells people. But as we can see, it’s obviously not working. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

17 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Long before that - I have no doubt it comes through clear and loud right now to her children.

This sounds likely... and it's surprising how quickly and quietly kids can do things when they want to. My toddler got into the pantry and happily pulled everything off the shelves that he could reach to make a tower. I was in the next room folding washing and didn't realise until he knocked a can over! Fortunately it was all cans on those shelves, and he couldn't climb at that stage. We made sure we put latches on that door after that.

Based on my experience, maybe 5 minutes?  I made quite a few "Oh damn, you can do that now" discoveries along the way - mostly we were ahead in the baby-proofing, but some things I swear they learned a new skill overnight and we hadn't realised something could be an issue - in the pantry case that he could manage to get the door open to start with!

Oh, yeah, I'm not saying that there aren't "wait, you can do that now?!" moments! I've had a few of those, mostly due to arms growing faster than I realized. It just seems like her toddlers are constantly doing that, not just one or two of them every so often. As @JermajestyDuggar, noted, one of them got into the sink (including dragging a chair over specifically to reach it) multiple times. It seems like she's either given up entirely on supervision/babyproofing or she is setting them up to fail or both. For most parents I think it takes one instance to realize that you need to do something more to babyproof, not multiple of the same instance. At a minimum, those gates the older kids can unlatch but the babies/toddlers can't might give her at least a little warning that they're climbing over, for example.

Edited October 31, 2021 by NotQuiteMotY

[SassyPants]

Like so many fundies, she is a lazy, disinterested parent. What’s important to Abbie, is Abbie and attention. The gaggle of kids gets her extra attention, that’s why she has them. Teaching, nurturing, protecting the kids is nowhere on her radar. The kids do for her and not the other way around. Shaun provides sperm and money.

[danvillebelle]

I think she just assumes that the older kids will always have an eye on the littles.  Obviously not so, since Honor flooded the bathroom more than once, Shiloh constantly gets into stuff and now the twins are right behind him.  I also wouldn't be surprised if the older kids got in trouble/reprimanded for the babies getting into stuff.

[SassyPants]

Today on IG she posted a photo of one of the girls pushing the babies around in a wooden canoe (home decor) on the wood floor of their rental Air BnB . Such disrespectful  behavior and  total disregard for someone else’s property. I hope the owner sees it and withholds their security deposit- 

[waltraute]

22 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

They are still popular but nowadays, they are these big ass gate things. You just put them in the living room and that stay inside the big baby gate. They are ugly so you know Braggie would never use one. 

I just discovered these this year. We have a grandchild who stays with us part time and it has been a life-saver. I bought 2 of the enclosures and hooked them together. Basically, the entire center of our living room was one long, large gated community. Until grandkid learned to climb we included the couch and armchairs into the pen so that we could sit in there with her, drinking coffee and keeping an eye out. We had to move things around and exclude the furniture once the climbing started. Just recently the whole thing had to be dismantled because like feministxtian's itty bitty, our grandkid learned to hook toes into the gaps and climb up high enough to topple to the other side. No more idle coffee drinking for me.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, waltraute said:

I just discovered these this year. We have a grandchild who stays with us part time and it has been a life-saver. I bought 2 of the enclosures and hooked them together. Basically, the entire center of our living room was one long, large gated community. Until grandkid learned to climb we included the couch and armchairs into the pen so that we could sit in there with her, drinking coffee and keeping an eye out. We had to move things around and exclude the furniture once the climbing started. Just recently the whole thing had to be dismantled because like feministxtian's itty bitty, our grandkid learned to hook toes into the gaps and climb up high enough to topple to the other side. No more idle coffee drinking for me.

That’s the thing about the baby Gates and baby proofing. In regular families, it’s a fairly small window of time you use them. But since Braggie is addicted to the attention she gets for having baby after baby, she would need ugly baby Gates and baby proofing since Ezra was little. And Braggie just can’t do that. Because she can’t stand anything she sees as ugly. Hell she couldn’t even stand Shiloh’s baby hair. She shaved it all off because she thought it looked ugly. He’s a baby! Who the fuck cares?!

Edited October 31, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[feministxtian]

2 hours ago, waltraute said:

Just recently the whole thing had to be dismantled because like feministxtian's itty bitty, our grandkid learned to hook toes into the gaps and climb up high enough to topple to the other side. No more idle coffee drinking for me.

Fortunately, the gates to the kitchen and the hallway are on the high side, Ummm, maybe 30"? The big problem is that when you tell her no, she sticks that lower lip out and then come the howls of indignation. I'm the only one who doesn't give in to her. Mommy and daddy and sissy can't bear to hear her cry. Me? Yeah, the crying bugs me, I mean her feelings are hurt, but on the other side, I also know that she got told no for her own good/safety. So...she starts crying with me, I'll cuddle her, but I won't let her do whatever it was she was doing. She has yet to figure out that Grandma is MUCH more stubborn than she is.